Freaking out...I am trying not to think about this and to remember that I don't have to make a decision right now and pretend like I don't know that I could be saving us tons of money by switching Ts, because if they hadn't told me, then I would just have been trying to find a P, right? And nothing would have changed. I have to go to band practice tonight and I need to be able to get there and home safely and I need to take care of Boo (who is playing in her crib although I'm hoping she'll nap) until at least five when H should be home from work and I DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO MAKE THIS SORT OF DECISION. I feel like I've been set up to just lose another person. And I can't even remember caring that I "lost" my dad, so maybe I can make it happen the same way with my T. But I don't want to lose the way I feel about T. THIS HURTS!

You absolutely don't have to make a decision now. I know that some people willingly go outside their network because they couldn't find a T they liked in their network. How come H thought you didn't have any mental health coverage? I'm a bit confused about that big miscommunication. Do you think you are feeling pressured to make a decision because you feel you need to tell H right when he gets home from work? So it's like you need to decide by 5pm. I can see how that would freak you out!

It also wouldn't be good to leave T right in the middle of what you are dealing with anyway. I think the extra money you are paying for your T is very important right now considering the connection you have with him. I know it's impossibly hard, but try and tell yourself to just get through things right now and then talk with T about the insurance issue. ((((Yaku))))

Thanks, Jane, Kashley.

T responded he was sorry I was in so much distress and some BS about if it is any consolation, this is a problem for a lot of people, because insurance companies don't tend to care about covering faith-based counseling/therapy, although the people clients often care. And that he was praying for me. i wrote back that i know he heard me and I was trying very hard to not lash out because i know it's not his fault and I am very angry right now, but that his response made me feel like my hurt was minimized as just one incident in an epidemic problem, but that I'm an individual person with real and personal pain right now.

I can't even go to the site to look up a P right now, because it is giving me an anxiety attack.

I texted a friend who might be going to band practice to see if he can give me a ride so I don't have to drive. if he can't, I may ask my pastor to come get me or one of the guys to give me a ride home and make my H drop me off...but it is hard to explain to these people about my attachment issues with T and why i am suddenly dysfunctional. i'm just trying to breathe and not do some bad stuff right now.

i'm on an HMO, so as far as i can tell for both T and my plan, there is no negotiating. I can try to ride it out until next year and find out if the ppo plan they have covers him as out of network or something. but, i feel like...wtf, if ihad known this ahead of time, i would have found a therapist that was in network. OR, most likely, i never would have gone to therapy in the first place, because the only reason i went is beceause this T, my T, kept saying he thought I needed help. well, obviously, he knew me before he even met me, because I do...pretty desperately.

quote:

because insurance companies don't tend to care about covering faith-based counseling/therapy

? does he bill differently (or fill out codes for insurance reimbursement) because it is faith based? One of my Ts is christian but she bills it/ codes it the same as my T who is not faith based at all. The insurance companies just care about the codes, diagnosis, credentials, and what the T is willing to contract with the insurance company for - like if they will accept the rate and conditions of the company. My faith based T and my regular T have the same experinces getting contracted and covered or not covered by my insurance. They don't generally care about if the T does the therapy with a faith perspective included or not. I think you had a great response back to him…

quote:

I texted a friend who might be going to band practice to see if he can give me a ride so I don't have to drive. if he can't, I may ask my pastor to come get me or one of the guys to give me a ride home and make my H drop me off...

Yay! Even if they can’t do it, this is a good thing to ask for and good to work on. It's a great way to take care of you and ask for what you need.

quote:

...but it is hard to explain to these people about my attachment issues with T and why i am suddenly dysfunctional. i'm just trying to breathe and not do some bad stuff right now.

Yeah, it’s hard for me to explain why my attachment with my T can be so intense or hard to people who haven’t been there. I hope you don’t have to justify why you need more support right now – hopefully just saying you are in a rough spot today would be enough if they don't get it in a way that makes it harder for you… maybe? Of course it would be good if they can support you more than just helping get you where you need to go… but myself and lots of people here totally get how scary and triggering and freaky this would be. It would be hard for me!

quote:

i'm on an HMO, so as far as i can tell for both T and my plan, there is no negotiating. I can try to ride it out until next year and find out if the ppo plan they have covers him as out of network or something. but, i feel like...wtf, if ihad known this ahead of time, i would have found a therapist that was in network. OR, most likely, i never would have gone to therapy in the first place, because the only reason i went is because this T, my T, kept saying he thought I needed help. well, obviously, he knew me before he even met me, because I do...pretty desperately.

Sounds like there has been some miscommunication here – they all should have given you a heads up. I don’t think you have done anything wrong at all here. HMO or PPO there can be ways to work through it if your T is willing. Have you told your T you are afraid of losing being able to see him and afford him? HMOs are harder to deal with generally, and fewer Ts accept them. But your T and your H knew this all and still encouraged you to see him, and it’s good you have gotten help… I just get the sense from your posts you feel guilty or something about this – and I’m not sure if you do or don’t – but I just want to say you haven’t done anything wrong at all. You made the best decisions you could with the info you have and it makes tons of sense why you don’t want to go through having to find a new T. Your T should also understand that would be terribly hard with the kind of place you are in.

hang in there. I hope practice goes well tonight! (Can I ask, what instrument do you play?)

safe hugs to you
jd

I did tell him that it felt like it was going to kill me. He probably thinks I am a drama queen or something, although he always says no...

I think if he was willing to set up with the HMO, he probably would have offered it. It looks like there is a P in his office that is set up with them, which is weird, but I think she is mostly just for meds.

I play drums, and rather poorly, especially tonight, I would think. Can't even bring myself to listen to the songs for practice right now...

This is so stupid. I'm feeling so trapped right now that in my mind the only solution is to quit and abandon the whole process, detach from my T and give up and try to close up shop and bury and this stuff that got dug up back somewhere that it can't surface so easily.

Tried to look up Ps on the website, but the search function kind of sucks and the ones I've found that might work out don't have any web presence for me to see what they're about...except for the one at T's office, who seems like he probably wouldn't have a clue about someone like me from his areas of specialization.

Yaku...I'm rushed for time right now and I'm sorry you are so anxiety ridden about this. I have had my share of fighting with insurance companies which I can talk about another time. But... why don't you ask your dh to find another T since he is not attached like you are and to find one in the plan so it will be covered and then you only have one full T payment to make? It's great that a P would be covered at a low co-pay.

I honestly don't know how I got so lucky that my T is in my plan. It scares me because it's too good to be true and then I think it will disappear like all good things from my life. I do want to add here that I saw a Christian counselor for 3 sessions while I was seeing my T to decide which one I liked better. I asked the Christian counselor to leave out the religious aspect of therapy, because it's just not my thing. Anyway, he was fully covered in my plan and I just had a co-pay. So I don't think insurance companies care and it's all about what Jane said above.

Hang in there and getting a ride is a great idea. You can just tell people you are not feeling well w/o all the details.

Hugs
TN

H offered that maybe I can research another T for him instead, which will save us $47.50 a week. However, if I find another T, it will save us $127.50. Also, I have to consider that even though I'm desperately attached to T, I keep getting worse lately (more dissociative, for example). If I found a T on my insurance, it's possible I would be able to go more times per week, have someone who specializes more in what I deal with...and as much as my faith is important, I can get that stuff from my pastor. Basically, my attached kiddo state is hiding somewhere very deep down right now, because I am feeling:

1. Completely outside of my own body right now.

2. Completely apathetic about leaving my T and only anxious about having to tell someone else all my stuff all over again.


Also, it's not as if my H's condition is an easy thing to talk about. "Hey, by the way, I have a condition that means I attack my wife and other people in my general vicinity in my sleep." I guess I'm protecting him when I should be protecting me. But, staying with my T will cost us over $6,000 a year...that's a lot of money. That may mean keeping our condo vs not. Me being able to stop working if I continue to be so debilitated. Me being able to put Boo in a part time preschool. I do have to consider my whole family...

You guys are right that T is full of it on the Christian thing. 10/171 Ts and Ps in my area have "Christian Counseling" amongst there specialties. There are a few in my area who focus on dissociative disorders along with mood disorders and personality disorders (one of those three I am SURE to have). I just wish I could find information about these people online or an email address. I do not like to talk on the phone. It gives me EXTREME anxiety. Anyway, still walking through this process. It's not like I'm going to terminate with my therapist the week before my H leaves on a business trip, so I at least need to ride it out until late June.

Hey, I have a way you guys can help me. If I stay with my T, what are some questions I should ask him to make sure that is the right decision...?

If I am looking for a new T, same thing. What questions to ask. I really know almost nothing about therapy that isn't my own personal experience. Like what type of questions, if you were me, would you guys ask about schools of thought, approach, attachment, boundaries, communication, etc.?

here is a link that has a lot of good psychology information. There is a section that gives you a list of questions to ask a potential therapist. I asked my T the questions almost a year after starting therapy. (He never got back to me on that... ) I hope yours does.

http://www.guidetopsychology.com/

Incidentally some of the approach here can be a bit negative-feeling, but...pretty honest and empowering, too.

Hi Yaku,

I can't help but think that, although this stirs up difficult questions, one way or another it's a good thing. You have options, and options are always good.

I also think it's good that you are being realistic about your timeframe on this - it's not a good idea to jump ship RIGHT now, but you can investigate over a safer period of time.

I don't think you need to protect your husband. He is an adult, he has a condition he needs to manage and be responsible for, and it only hurts both of you (and others) if he doesn't step up to that and/or you carry the weight for him. Can your H research his own T? He knows what he wants and needs better than you do. He also made the original error about the insurance. So I'm not sure why this is an 'offer', for you to research it for him.

I'm hearing a lot of strong, sensible points in favour of you at least investigating other Ts for yourself. I know Kiddo is not thrilled to read this, wherever she is. But Kiddo's not the whole story, right? I don't believe her needs should be ignored, but I do believe they should be balanced against your adult perspective, which is what I am very pleased to see in your post. The adult perspective takes into account the long view of what is good for Kiddo, whereas Kiddo (as a kid) can only see the right-here and right-now. The most important part of the long view is being able to take an overview of your therapy. And when you do, you see things getting worse, rather than better. That is rough, but it is very, very important to acknowledge. As you acknowledge, you may be safer with someone who has more specialized experience and training. You may be safer with someone you can access multiple times a week without going bankrupt. You may be safer with less financial pressure. All of these things may help to make Kiddo safer, happier and more fulfilled, even if she doesn't know it yet. But you are the adult, Yaku. You do know more than she does, and you can find ways to look after her, hold her and help her through whatever comes next - just as you would for Boo.

I'm not sure about questions, but I hope this is helpful in some way.

Take care,

Jones

(((Jones))) Thanks for your suggestion. I am still researching the idea. The hardest part is, there are a handful out of the 171 that have the combinations of things that would tempt me enough to deal with this attachment stuff and leave my T. One in particular who I am really interested in. And none of them have ANY web presence to speak of, no email, grrr. I do NOT want to call these people. Why the heck can't they just have a basic website saying, "This is where I come from." Ugh. I cannot do phone calls. I find them very triggering and I have no idea why. I often ask H to do phone communications for me, even inviting people to dinner.

H can research on his own, but know he won't. I did a quick search for the criteria he wanted (Christian, male and some sort of specialization even tangentially related to his issue). There were none. All the Christian male counselors were for stuff that has nothing to do with him. So, I guess it's on me or we're broke.

That's cool that there are some strong possibilities there. Once you've worked up a list of questions the phone calls will be much easier. You can just read from a little script - or just call and ask to go in for a one-off meeting to check out the vibe.

J

yarg...Yaku. I'm like...teenage-mutant-ninja-christian, also...but- I think it limits our options if the counselor *has* to be Christian...idk...maybe many people who do not share basic beliefs still can tap into the universal truths that we all need to discover in order to *heal*...and that is *still* from God, whether or not that person classifies it as such, or specifically says that it is? Just an idea. I get that you have to be careful about stuff masquerading and so on, and that stuff can be tricky-...but- hm I guess lots of people I know that are not specifically Christian, behave in much more truly Christian ways than lots of people I know who are supposedly devout Christians- and treat others like crap- ...I think it's just taking people at their word and are they of *good will* -something like that. there are a lot of dangerous Christian counselors out there, too. And...potentially more dangerous for having the safe "label.." idk.

However- I understand the need to be able to trust, and if you aren't able to form opinions and trust your instincts all alone- than, ok, it might be crucial to have a counselor that shares the basic core beliefs...as a safety net type thingy.
But- I mean, I don't think many counselors out there are gonna be too keen on those of your H's behavior patterns that are harmful to him and your marriage and will want to help him change some of that internet stuff that is seriously harmful- whether they are Christian counselors or not...at least, I sincerely hope so. I repeat- some of the behaviors your h deals with that you have said on here are *not* in line with Christian beliefs anyway- and many a *non-Christian* counselor could seriously help him with that stuff...overcoming those kind of addictions is not *just* a Christian thing...but it's a *human* thing a relationship thing- kwim? so yeah, a Christian thing, too- but not- as a label, or a "brand" - ?? Hope this helps...

Yaku, I posted a list of questions on here for MTF when she was considering a new T at some point. Basically, you need to ask about their experience working with attachment injury, complex PTSD, dissociation or dissociative disorders, and what their orientation is....you definitely need a psychodynamic therapist. In fact, you need a licensed clinical psychologist and I would try to find someone with the PsyD designation or a PhD who has a lot of clinical experience (as opposed to research experience). You should be given answers to any questions about their education and work experience. What kinds of issues do they typically treat in their practice? Because outside contact is important to you, you need to clarify that up front. You should ask about appointments... such as can you see them more than once per week?

I think that it would be possible to get the spiritual aspect of what you need satisfied from your pastor or your church group. I'm not very religious, although I was raised Catholic. My first T was Jewish. I found it interesting to discuss religion with him. We didn't do it often but when it came up (usually by me) we always had a good conversation about it. My current T is Catholic and it only makes a difference for me in that we share the same holidays. If he was Jewish or Muslim or Methodist it would not make a difference to me or to the amazing therapy he does with me. What is most important is that he is experienced in the needs that I have and the issues that trouble me.

Lastly, sometimes an insurance carrier will allow someone to be covered in their plan if you argue that there is no one in their plan close to where you live that meets the very specific needs that you have. They allowed oldT to be reimbursed at their "out of network" rate because they could not find me a T to see a 7 year old for ADHD at the time I was looking. Then they allowed ME to be reimbursed as well because it was important I see the same T as my son saw. So perhaps you could argue this with your insurance company....maybe especially in your husband's case where he has an unusual disorder and needs a Christian T. It is worth a shot and you have nothing to lose. You will need to speak with a Case Manager, as they will make the decision.

I think you got really good advice from the others. The important thing is that you don't need to rush into a decision and you can just do some investigating that hopefully won't spook your inner Kiddo too much. Just think of it as a fact finding mission.

As for your dh... well if he cannot look for a T for himself what does that say about how committed he is to getting well and managing his condition? He needs to take care of his family instead of you doing all the work for him.

I'm sorry you are in all this turmoil. I hope it all settles down for you soon.

TN

Jones - You're right. A list of questions would make a phone call much more manageable. Or maybe, my list of questions could be, "Hey, does your secretary have an email address that I can send a list of questions to, because talking to you on the phone is giving me an anxiety attack?"

BB - I'm with you there. I actually never felt like I *needed* to have a Christian counselor, although I have felt it helpful to not have to explain things like why I don't stop tithing to pay for therapy, etc. In my case, I am perfectly fine not seeing a Christian therapist if it means that the T or P I see actually specializes in my stuff. I think a lot of T's have a spiritual perspective on their work, but don't necessary list it as a specialty...that doesn't mean they are UNspiritual, just that it's not a focal point of their work (take TN's T for example). H, for some reason, is pretty insistent on a Christian male. I think part of it may be that he's worried about his condition being judged and no believed. He struggles with that with T already, who keeps calling him dissociative, even though medical doctors have said he has a parasomnia.

DF - Thanks for the website. I will check. There is one particular therapist that sounds very nearly perfect for me and a couple of others that might do as well. I think H, despite saying that he isn't attached and "doesn't mind" starting over with another T, actually really does not want to, otherwise his list of qualifications would have been more flexible. I'd even be willing to risk erotic transference and encourage him to be open see a female T, honestly. I could accept that and it might be good for him to work through stuff in that way, but H feels understandably uncomfortable. The thing about seeing my current T more often is that it will never happen, because he is only here Monday and Tuesday and doesn't have time for phone calls on Wednesday or Thursday. The one time I went in both Monday/Tuesday (the horrible moving away from me session), I had to surrender my Friday session, unless I was "really overwhelmed" and then we could reevaluate. That had been my plan ANYWAY, but I'm pretty sure he won't do 3x per week with me.

BG - Thanks. What you're describing would actually be perfect for me. Someone who can understand where I am coming from, but maybe doesn't shove it down my throat quite so often. Love my T anyway, though.

TN - Thanks for the helpful advice. Know something funny? Everything on your list was something I was looking for, except for the CPTSD. Unfortunately, the little bios mostly just say a few areas they focus in and the ones who do dissociation are like 10 and all but a few are just MA/MS MFTs or SW. There is one guy who is PhD Clinical Psychologist, Dissociative Disorders, PTSD, Mood Disorders, Personality Disorders, Men's Issues (well, at least helps when I tell him about H's crap), etc.. I'd say about 75% or more of the in network people just have their masters. I don't know why that matters to me and I'm sure there are excellent therapists without doctoral education, but my current T is a PhD and I almost feel like that would be a step down, LOL. Maybe my insurance carrier was lying, but when I asked if there was anything I could do about him being out of network, she just said, "No, no coverage." H could look for a T by himself, but he often asks me to research stuff for him, because I'm "better at it." Like, when we make purchases or big decisions, I do most of the legwork. It really doesn't bother me. When I leave things to him, I end up finding out that I could have saved thousands of dollars in the last year.


So, I was feeling pretty detached last night and this morning and some protective parts were saying, "Let's just break off all contact with T and disconnect in case you have to leave, it will be easier that way." But, I resisted and sent T a long text to read on his trip down and one particular kid (the one causing me so much trouble lately) popped up and started saying in little kiddo voice about how she just wants a hug from T. Ugh. So, you know what? I just told him. LOL. Whatever. The week I've had, I want a hug (any little kid would want to be held and comforted right now), and even if he can't give me one...I don't care that he knows all their/my feelings toward him. I think I have resigned myself to both praying and researching at my own pace over the next few weeks without feeling like I need to jump into anything. Maybe I just decide to ride out the year and switch to a PPO and see if that will save us any money.


((((((everyone))))))) Thanks for all your support and advice. It makes it so much easier to take these steps to take care of myself and Kiddo and little Yaku and the others, when I know you're all cheering us on. Jeez, I feel ridiculous speaking about myself in this way, but it's my internal reality as far as I perceive it, so who tf cares, right?

So, out of curiosity, just looked up the application for him to get on Aetna...it is like, maybe, a 10 minute web form. I know, probably some more follow-up later if he's not accepted straight away and has to clarify anything...but still.

Sigh.

And you know what I will do with this information? Absolutely nothing. Because, if I tell him, "Hey, why don't you register on Aetna, so I can keep seeing you?" and he says, "Um...sorry, no," I will almost definitely:

1. Experience it as a rejection, because I would interpret it as him not wanting to work with me, rather than him not wanting to take (possibly) lesser fees and deal with more paperwork or some other personal experience with or dislike of insurance companies.

2. Think he was lying when he said that insurance companies don't want to work with Christian counselors, just making up an excuse, because he doesn't want to bother with it. Which, he is in his rights to not want to deal with it (I've heard it can be a real pain and it might mean current clients start paying less and his administrative work increases). But, even if he weren't lying before, I would probably think it if he still didn't want to bother with the application.

3. Feel like I was being too pushy, demanding, invading his boundaries...all the other things I feel even when he specifically ASKS me be willing to do/try certain things (like texting).


H said, "I would [ask him]!" I said, "OK, fine, you can ask him...but I CAN'T!"


I know this makes me a big chicken, but it's not really him saying "no" that I am afraid of. It is my own reaction to him saying "no." I think, like I said, intellectually, I can understand that he might say no to things that have nothing to do with me at all and that is OK, completely his right to do. However, I can't stop the kids from feeling rejected and abandoned all the time.

ooops sorry Yaku, I wasn't talking about the parasomnia when I said some of that, I was refering to some of the other more conscious behaviors you have revealed that could aggravate maybe the other stuff. I didn't mean to sound judgemental at all, I was just trying to point out that it doesn't have to be a Christian therapist to help with say, internet addictions, and stuff like that. erm, but I think it just came out wrong. I am sorry about that. unintended.

your not a chicken. this stuff is hard to deal with. but take courage- do what you need to do to get information and keep yourself safe...you can do it. (wish I could put one of those little cutie cheerleader dudes here!)

hug,

BB

BB - I didn't take any offense at all...I was just explaining what I think my H's reasoning is for his preference. (((hugs back)))

I am writing a list of questions to call the one Clinical Psychologist in my area who has a doctorate AND lists specialties in areas I think are essential. I'm sure there are others who are experienced with dissociation, but just didn't pick it as one of their (maximum 8) criteria. That's why I wish these people would just have basic websites with a tiny bit more information about what they're about. I don't need a picture, just a general background, experience, philosophy type thing...

I HATE making phone calls. Maybe if I call tomorrow and leave a message and ask if they have any email address I can email some questions to and then don't pick up any unknown numbers for a week to force them to leave me a message back...seriously, I'm starting to think I have a problem here. I wish I knew why talking on the phone makes me so dang anxious. I guess, talking in person does too, but talking on the phone, especially to someone I don't know, is even WORSE.