((((Affinity))))

quote:

P.S. I know "crafty bugger" is British. I hope I used it correctly.

Perfectly!! Us Brits know 'exactly' what you mean "crafty sod" or even "crafty beggar" would work too!

So, that's the slang sorted out; now for the spelling. "color" indeed

AV

(((Avoidant)))

I can't give myself completely over to British English. I'm a writer by trade, and the American organization I work for would have a fit.

But I LOVE British slang and will use it whenever the occasion calls for it. My hubby and I watch the BBC Top Gear and Sherlock, and Jeremy Clarkson often has me in stitches with his use of "gentleman's sausage."

(((((AFFINITY)))))

What an interesting question. I don't have an insight for you but please share with us if you figure anything out. I say that because I had a similar desire with my oldT. I wanted to help him pick out paint colors for his office.


I wonder if it means we have trouble with authority?

If you simply saw him as a therapist, does that mean you still wouldn't want to take him shopping for a new wardrobe? I mean, wouldn't you still notice that you don't like his clothing? Does he mean that if you saw him as your therapist and not a peer, that you would notice his clothing and not like it but NOT want to take him shopping?

Is it a bad or a good or a neutral thing that you see him as a peer rather than a therapist? My first gut reaction to this was that it was a bad thing (authority issues? - see above) but after thinking about it a little more, I saw it as a good thing as you he perhaps is no longer in a pedestal. I think peer is good in therapy. Just my opinion.

Maybe it just means you have to stare at this person for an hour every week? Or that you LIKE staring at him and would like him to be even more..umm...aesthetically appealing? I often have strong opinions about my T's wardrobe, but I haven't felt the need to analyze them. Hmmm...

Liese,

I think the peer thing has to do with wanting to pick out his clothes/take him shopping. I'd doubt he'd assign peer status to simply noticing his clothes and having an opinion on them.

Also, my T would probably discourage me from thinking of this in terms of "good" or "bad." He doesn't classify things in that way; its all about looking behind the feelings to see what truths they reveal. Of course, that creates a much harder, more nuanced question to grapple with: "What does it mean for me and my therapy to view my T as a peer?"

I don't know. I do know that as much as I fantasize about buying him a new shirt, if I actually saw him outside the office, I'd probably crawl out of my skin. This transference dynamic is getting really complicated. Yesterday, I battled feelings of hate and disgust just before session because he was a few minutes late to the appointment.

BLT,

Oh, boy, can of worms on this one. I don't find my T physically attractive in any way. He is much, much older than me, and his looks aren't his best feature. So, no, I don't really enjoy the view. My attraction to him is intellectual (and from that springs the ET.)

When my T wears black, it makes him look even older. And I guess I dislike that because it churns up this feeling of revulsion that makes my feelings of ET even more painful and unpleasant. I guess my desire to improve his looks (i.e., make him appear younger) is my way of trying to make sense of my attraction and justify it.

One of my friends knows (at least in part) about my attraction to my T, and a while back she said, "You should show me a picture." Um, no. Because I know she'll judge my attraction partly based on how he looks, and it won't make any kind of sense.

Hell, it doesn't make sense to me half the time.

So basically, he's too old for you and not much of a looker, but you've got ET for him, and the contrast between your feelings and his age/appearance is so weird that you'd like to help him look better/younger so that it would all feel less weird and revolting to you?

Affinity... two things come to my mind. One that perhaps you are used to being in that caretaking role and by wanting to dress your T and revamp his wardrobe it's part of your wanting to take care of him. Maybe by doing so you feel like the relationship will be more equalized. The other idea is somewhat related. Maybe you will feel more in control of the relationship if you have some say in how he dresses.

On another note... people who are not in therapy or never have been will never understand the attachment/transference we experience with our T's. Looks has nothing to do with it (but does not hurt LOL). It's the intimacy and attachment that pulls us in .

TN

Affinity,
Can I put in a vote for not pathologizing this? It could just be an expression of care. You're good at colors and helping people look their best and he looks like he could use that. Not that complex.

I remember once being really worried my T was overworking and stretching himself too thin, so much so I finally brought it up in session. I had come up with all kinds of complex interpretations for my worry based on my issues and my T looked at me and said "maybe you're worried about me because you care about me?" And it hit me I was feeling the same way I feel when my husband works insane hours. What a relief to just see it as a normal, human reaction.

And btw, my T is 12 years older than me and I wasn't bowled over by his looks when I met him. It was only as I got to know him as TN said above. I knew I was in trouble when he started getting better looking each session. Now, I just sit and marvel sometimes at how incredibly beautiful he is, he shines.

"The heart has its reasons which reason does not know." - Blaise Pascal

BLT,

Yeah, that about sums it up. I feel like such a shallow arse now for that little admission.

Thank you also, TN and AG, for your input. As I've been thinking this over, I've realized a couple of (potentially unpleasant) things about myself:

1. I'm getting desperate to understand the intense feelings I have for my T and to put them in their proper context.

2. I'm ashamed of my feelings and, by extension, our connection and relationship.

I shouldn't be ashamed of my T at all. He's a wonderful person and I enjoy him (when I'm not hating his boundaries like a plague. ) His eyes are also quite nice - very warm and expressive.

My thought is, maybe the ET is just an expression of my desire to keep going back to my T and drawing closer to him. In that light, it makes tons of sense. But then I'm drawing closer for what? The relationship is only temporary, and the boundaries prevent me from viewing him as a real friend. But our connection feels far too personal and intimate for a professional relationship. So I open up and all this pain rises to the surface, I consider pulling back to avoid the pain, the ET goes up a notch to push me forward, so I go forward and repeat cycle. The connection deepens each time, becoming warmer and more healing, but the pain and longing increase right along with it. I keep telling myself that at some point something will change: I'll reach the apex of this cycle and the pain will then begin to decrease each go around. But then...what to do with all these feelings for T?

I don't know how I can express what I feel beyond words without embarrassing myself or risking rejection. I want to draw him a picture or play him a song or write him a poem - maybe even ask for a transitional object. But I just can't bring myself to do any of these things. He's the kind of boundary ninja that could put AG's T to shame. And that's saying something! (Seriously, he is ridiculously strict with me.)

((((AFFINITY))))

The cycling sounds brutal. I know it only too well. I understand the need to understand the intensity of the feelings and to put them in their proper context. To me, the draw is the promise of something that you need and the pain is the loss of that something. That love and intimacy is so damn close but we can't actually have it with them. Everytime you hit that wall, you are dealing with loss over and over and over again.

Maybe falling in love gives us a feeling of feeling good about ourselves and once we feel good about ourselves, we won't need to fall in love anymore? And won't fall into these cycles?

Noticing something about someone that you don't like and wanting to change that seems to indicate that you want to love him in the whole-hearted way and you want get that love mirrored back to you but you are having trouble with it. All normal stuff. Maybe if you can learn to love your T just the way he is, you will learn a healthier way to love? I have struggled much in this area. And/or maybe if we learned to accept our own imperfections, we could learn to love ourselves?

I like AG's non-pathologizing view of this. It makes sense. IMO, wanting to take him shopping would mean that you think of him more like a friend than a peer. Peer, to me, means equal - which I don't think is a bad thing in a therapeutic relationship. I don't think wanting him as a friend is bad either but it's just against the rules. Caring about your T seems to be a very positive sign, as AG said.

quote:

To me, the draw is the promise of something that you need and the pain is the loss of that something. Everytime you hit that wall, you are dealing with loss over and over and over again.

This. So this. I do not accept loss well. Many times, I even view change as loss. The problem is, I'm not allowing myself to grieve these losses. I'm terrified that my grief will break me. So instead of grieving, I keep pushing for the things I cannot have and hitting the wall - like a gaping maw of need.

While we're talking about Good and Bad things, I think it would be a Bad thing for my T to comment we're on a higher level of relationship when I don't feel that way too.
BTW I just adore how Eustace talked in the "Voyage of the Dawn Treader" movie.

((((AFFINITY))))

I felt the same way about the grief and, honestly, it was really hard. I think I finally let myself grieve it all when I left my T but it took A LOT of support and about of month straight of crying. I didn't break but it sure felt like I might. The good news is, I feel much freer. I hope you do too soon.

(((Skylynx)))

(((Liese)))

I hope I can face my grief soon. In the meantime, since this conversation with my T and the radical bout of ET that surfaced, I think I've emotionally sealed off a part of myself from my T. I'm still doing good work in therapy, but I'm not allowing our connection to ravage me (for lack of a better description.) Maybe this is a sign of healing, maybe it's a step back. I don't know. I feel like I'm trying to find a middle ground where I can accept his love and care and still operate as if this is a professional relationship (which it is).

Maybe I've taken to heart something that my T mentioned after the clothing conversation--that, at some point, we might have to set some emotional boundaries to keep us from falling too deep into this thing. (I strongly suspect some counter-transference on his part--not erotic, but something else.) My heart hurts, but I have to accept that no matter how much I may desire it, we'll never have a friendship beyond the four walls of his office. So it does me no good to keep thinking of him in that way. Instead, I need to focus on my healing. If that requires me to bring up transference issues once in a while, so be it. But the daily obsession has to stop.

(((AFFINITY)))

I only know all that pain too well.

What I have felt since I left my T is a sense that I will always be connected to him. We parted on fairly good terms. I could go back if I wanted to though I do not see that happening. But I know he's still there. That's a nice feeling to have. I also have that feeling with my new T. She's there if I need her.

So maybe you don't even really need your T as your friend? Maybe if you can always stay connected somehow, that would be enough? Who needs any more loss than we already have? Haven't we had enough?

I'm in the middle of this, too, so it's always easier to give advice than receive it. But, Affinity, I think that forcing your imagination to stop is putting the horse before the cart. It looks to me like you're still in a deep transference relation and because of that the nurturing, "holding" aspects of the relationship (within boundaries) needs to unfold naturally. During that, some wishes and fantasies mellow...don't disappear, but mellow. I don't think one needs to be on guard, always dreading the end, or trying in advance to numb up to the end of therapy. But (and I'm not there myself) there comes a time in therapy when you have been fulfilled, become confident and at rest, and it becomes your sincere idea to see the T less often so you have time to do some things you would rather. Or you really would rather spend the money for something else, not in a defensive way, but really and truly. I know this is unthinkable as long as the transference is running deep. I'm even getting ahead of my own self here. But I've been reading a lot of books and forums on transference issues, and that is the general concensus about how therapy is supposed to work. I got so wrought up on how transference ends that my T advised just to chill about it a little and quit trying to push the river. I felt much relief at that.