(((((I'm OK)))))

Not to be argumentative here, but you are not pathetic ...I'm sorry you're feeling so bad right now.

This transference stuff is really tough to deal with, isn't it? I thought therapy would consist of just talking to someone who would tell me what to do, I would do it (eventually), and my life would get better. I had no idea therapy would consist of me developing a relationship with my therapist and that, by working through the problems I was having in that relationship, I would somehow work through the underlying issues that were causing my other problems as well. I even thought he was crazy to risk a relationship with me. At first I thought, this guy doesn't know who he's dealing with. As soon as he "really" gets to know me, he'll transfer me to another therapist. But I'm beginning to think he knows exactly what he's doing...and the violent emotional reactions I'm having must be an indication that we're getting to the root of something important.

Being in the thick of it myself, it's really hard to see that. Which is why this message board is a lifeline to me...because sometimes I can't even articulate the questions, but then people like you take the time & courage to post, and then others with more experience respond with hope and encouragement. One of the main reasons I'm going back to see my therapist today...in three hours, and yes, I hear the clock ticking, and my stomach is starting to get that nervous feeling...is because of the testimonies here that there really is a purpose to all this, and that it will be worth it.

My moods swing so strongly that I've been considering asking to be evaluated for borderline personality disorder...one description I came across used the term "emotional storms" and that struck a chord with me. As much as I don't want to have another "label", if there is relief to be had from those storms, I'd like to try it. And I'm beginning to lose my fear of labels...

You said sometimes you think about terminating yourself. Please, if you are seriously considering this please reach for some direct help where you are. I've sometimes "wished" I could do that...but I don't, not really. It's just that sometimes it's hard to see the forest for the trees in the way, as the saying goes. Besides, I'm just too darn stubborn. There really is hope, even if it's hard to see right now.

Did you hear the one about the ultimate optimist? A guy was walking along when he came across a little boy digging through a pile of manure. When the boy paused in his efforts, the guy asked him, what are you doing? And the boy replied, there's so much manure here, there's just got to be a horse in here somewhere!

You said you told your T today how you feel about her. Good job! That's what we've been told we're supposed to do...keep talking. Now you are weathering the storm from talking...keep talking through this too! Tell us how it went. What did your therapist say?

I remember the first time I mentioned transference to my T. I had a terrible emotional storm after that one. In fact, any time I tell him anything that is risky, that makes me feel more vulnerable, I have an emotional storm afterward...but supposedly, as we keep doing that, the storms will subside, and we will see them for what they really are, which are very old abandonment issues from childhood. My knee-jerk reaction is to shut down and run away. But according to those on this site who know exactly what I'm talking about, and who have worked through this, I'm supposed to do exactly the opposite of what I feel like doing...I'm supposed to keep going back and keep talking. Sounds crazy to me...but as one of them said, if this was easy to deal with, we wouldn't be in therapy to deal with it. It's hard...but it will be worth it. The only way to change those old, underlying patterns is to face those demons (and they do feel like demons, don't they?) head-on. And facing them means to keep talking, talking, talking. Talking shines the light on them and eventually exposes them for what they really are...old ways of coping that don't fit anymore. And they will lose their hold on us, and we will be FREE to respond in healthier ways.

FREE...that's what I want, don't you?

Where did that come from? Others on this site like Hummingbird and Attachment Girl, who've been there and done that...

Keep talking to your T and to us, I'm OK...we're here for you...and I just might need the favor returned later today, after my appointment with my T...we're right in the middle of talking about transference, and of course I'm avoiding the really hard stuff until last...

Try to be gentle with yourself, I'm OK...you're on the right track. And you're not alone.
Hugs,
SG

Hi I'm OK,
You sound normal to me (but you might want to consider the source ); I felt like I was living on a roller-coaster for months, still do sometimes. You are experiencing very deep felt needs from a time when you were very young. They're very intense, primal and life and death to your limbic system. And part of attachment injuries is that we were not taught how to regulate and channel our emotions. So when we start to let ourselves experience these long denied feelings and needs, it feels so totally overwhelming because we have no way to handle them. That's why, as terrifying as it is (and I do mean off the scale, can't breathe, think you're heart is going to stop terrifying) we have to express these feelings and have them in the presence of our therapist. Because when we do, our therapist can "contain" our feelings, and literally, in a direct right brain way, teach us to regulate them, and learn to understand that we don't have to be afraid of our own emotions and needs. Trust me that I learned this the hard way and have spent a lot of time gonzo confused and feeling like I'm stumbling around in the dark.

I get how hard and scary this feels. I was constantly thinking about quitting therapy and even threatened to on a LOT of occasions. My T has told me that healing from this stuff, facing the emotions and grief underneath, is probably the hardest thing I'll ever do and that he's seen me as scared as a human being can possibly be and live to talk about it. So please trust that I realize the depth of emotion that you're talking about and how overwhelming it can feel. I know you feel like you can't do this, that you're not strong enough, but I'm telling you that you absolutely can. That sense of impending destruction you feel is from when you were a kid and really didn't have any resources. If you do any extensive reading about people who experienced trauma, a common feeling is one of impending annihilation, a swirling chaos of destruction or as I so fondly called it the "deep black abyss into which I will be sucked." One of the most amazing things to me about my healing is that the abyss is gone almost all the time now. I lived with fear for so long that it was actually scary when I realized it was gone (and no, the irony does not escape me. )

And of course you're thinking about terminating therapy, and even yourself. I know I struggled with both. Human beings instinctually avoid pain, it's unhealthy not to, but in this case, the only way out is through, which means walking towards pain again and again. I know it seems impossible but with the support of an involved T it can be done. Healing will happen; healing is possible, there really is another side to this despair.

You're longings for something more from your T are normal and healthy. They are a healthy reaching out for connection and protection and love, all things that a human being needs. They are also a sign of the things you didn't get as a child and are still looking for. The work of therapy is taking out these feelings, being honest about them. It is in the talking about them that you can see the patterns, learn your beliefs and change them.

And one last thing, you are NOT pathetic! Your response, reactions and feelings are not a sign of pathology or sickness. They're reasonable human reactions to unreasonable circumstances. You're a perfectly healthy human being, you just didn't get what you need. Healing in therapy is about mourning what you no longer get, and then getting what you need to heal and move on. The very fact that you are here expressing these fears is a good sign that you are already doing the very thing you fear you can't do.

AG

quote:

Originally posted by I'm OK:
Does anyone else spiral from high to lows back to highs in their mood? Not bipolar but mood swings that are obvious enough to notice?

I certainly do. Sometimes it seems like the silliest thing can send my mood tumbling through the floor, like if I can't find anyone to go to lunch with one day.

For me, what helped, was to surrender to the feelings I have towards my T. I stopped thinking about the feelings as something "fake" that I'll eventually "get over." When I go to see my T, I try to sort of "hand over the keys" to the part of me that wants to protect and hide my emotions. He takes care of them so I can try and work on the stuff underneath.

I don't know if that'll be helpful to you. If you can keep showing up, and talking about what you can, you don't have to do it all at once. The most important thing is to keep at it and don't give up.

Hi SG, AG & Z

Thank you all so much for taking the time to read my post and reply.

I rang my T and asked her for another appointment today – even though I only saw her yesterday. I feel like my thoughts are jumping all over the place. I am finding this so hard to explain because my logical left brain keeps jumping in with rational explanations but what my body is feeling is the right brain stuff. I feel sick - like I seriously might vomit. I have been in therapy long enough to know that rationally it’s just anxiety. “Just anxiety” – two small words – yet how crippling can they make one person?

Normally I am a woman in control – I present myself nicely and sit opposite my T drinking a coffee. I like having something to hold in my hands – otherwise I don’t know what to do with them. Also having a coffee makes it feel like I am chatting with a friend rather than being in therapy. When I do this, I feel like I look normal and I feel equal to her. I have been doing this for 4 years. But something is changing – and I can’t seem to control it – and I hate not being in control. I almost never cry. But it feels like I want to but I don’t know how to – or I’m too scared to. I feel like I want to turn up at my session and rather than being an equal I just want to curl up in the foetal position on her couch or floor. But I wouldn’t. I think she would freak out or yell at me and tell me to sit up and act like an adult. I feel like rocking back and forth. I can’t explain this.

I can’t explain it because it doesn’t make sense to me what is going on with my mind / body. They feel like they are fighting each other and that I am in conflict with myself. I feel like telling my T that I hate her - but then my rational left brain says “no, you don’t, you love her”. How can I love and hate her at the same time? How can I feel all the emotions caused by transference when she never changes – she is the same week in week out – calm, steady, constant – it’s my brain that is constantly thinking (does anyone else here have a brain that won’t turn off? ) and even though I left a session one week ago happy, my brain thinks about all this stuff in the next week and when I turn up at my next session I just blurt it out. Her life hasn’t changed. She is just doing what she does - she's a T, a wife, a mother, a friend. It is me who is so out of control. Just me. I mean she turns up at each session, walks in the door after dropping her kids at school and goes with whatever I am talking or feeling – and my left brain kicks in and says “see it has nothing to do with her how I feel” and yet it has everything to do with how I feel. I know deep down all these new transference feelings are about me. I know logically that she hasn’t done anything differently over the past 2 weeks but all this transference stuff is here. It's like I'm a champagne bottle that has been shaken and I'm about to explode. More than anything else though, I don’t understand how old stuff is playing out in the present?????

SG – Wow, you summed up how I am feeling at the moment. It sounds like we are at similar points in our therapy journey. I went back and read all the other posts you have made on this website so far. I so look forward to reading more posts from you in the future.

quote:

You said you told your T today how you feel about her. Good job! That's what we've been told we're supposed to do...keep talking. Now you are weathering the storm from talking...keep talking through this too! Tell us how it went. What did your therapist say?

It’s funny but it’s like I wasn’t really there in my session yesterday and I can’t remember much of what she said. How can you be physically present but not emotionally present? How in one of the most important sessions can I no remember what she said? I mean the main thing I heard her say regarding transference was that it’s “normal”. She said that she knows I want to “avoid because I’m scared, and that this is fine/makes sense BUT even though it makes sense, the anxiety is still there SO the only way she thinks it can be handled in a productive way is for me NOT to avoid, to face the anxiety and feel (very!) uncomfortable with the anxiety as I work through it but at least get something out of feeling anxious by working with it rather than just sitting with it."

I get the above is all good, logical advice but I came away more with a feeling – and not the above words. My body is telling me to run. I didn’t realise transference had so many layers to it as well. I thought it was just about liking your T and wanting more of your T – when it’s really about us and our needs and our ability to manage our emotions – and for me that’s a whole Pandora’s Box that I just don’t know if I can risk opening it. I feel sick and frightened and want to disappear. SG – how did I do answering your question?? And let me know how you went with your session today?

AG – Thank god you are here! Thank god you are coming out the other side with all this transference stuff. It’s lovely hearing some one who is getting close to making it.

I have a question AG, in your sessions, do/did you sit rigid in your chair, lay down and cry or what?

Also, I get where you are going with all the early childhood stuff / attachment theory but a huge part of me thinks "who am I to complain that I have issues" – I mean I was fortunate enough to have never been sexually abused, my parents weren’t alcoholics, I always had food, warmth and shelter. I did have a mother who suffered from depression, and occasionally psychosis, and therefore she wasn’t emotionally there for me. She was also very religious – too far if you know what I mean (there was no balance at all) – but I don’t think this is significant enough history for me to react to life the way I do. There are a lot of people who have really suffered - way more than I ever have - why can't I just pull up my sock and get on with life?

Thanks again for all your support. I think there's a long way for me to go and probably a lot more posts to come.

I'm OK

Hi,
it's great you were able to call your T and ask for another appointment. I hope you are able to sort through some of the painful emotions you are going through. I can relate to so much of what you wrote - wanting to curl up in a ball and rock back and forth is such a strong urge for me, sometimes i have to physically hold on to myself to keep from doing it. For the same reasons as you, i'm scared she'll think i'm a freak.

I also realise I am not emotionally present a lot of the time during sessions, especially hard ones. I think it's just a defense mechanism to protect yourself. Normally I can hear and remember most stuff, but the more intense it is, the more I forget. And i rarely react. In there anyway. Sometimes as soon as I walk out the door to go home that's when i start to FEEL it all. And then I have to deal with those feelings on my own until i see her again. And then it just keeps repeating. So i've been really trying to keep telling myself it's ok to feel while i'm in there. She can be trusted with my feelings. She can handle them better than me. Your T is the person you are paying to hear the real you. It's hard when you start having feelings for them because then you have doubts about how they'll react to the "real" you, what they'll think of you, if they'll still like you. Do you think this is part of the problem? Are there any people in your life you don't find it so hard to be vulnerable with? Can you imagine you are talking to them?

I haven't been able to bring up the transference stuff with my T yet. I really really want to and I know i will do it, but it is hard. You're braver than me already and certainly not pathetic ok?

aah if only we could all just "get on with life". But then we wouldn't need Ts! Seriously though, you don't need to minimise your past. If it bothers you then it bothers you. Trying not to let it bother you (avoiding it) will only make it into a bigger problem - it snowballs. Your current feelings don't have to be connected to your childhood, that's just normally where it comes from i guess. But wherever they come from they are real and owning those feelings and experiencing them is very courageous. Your T sounds like she wants to help you with this.

If you DO feel the anxiety what are you afraid will happen? If you can work out what you're scared of you can decide what to do next.

Let us know how you went today,
LTF

I'm OK,

You're welcome for the response...would you believe this is helping me at least as much (if not more) than it's helping you? We really are in this together. I'm so glad you reached out.

And I am WAY impressed that you called your T and asked for another appointment! That is amazing. Good for you! I am still so scared to ask my T for anything more than the appointments. There have been times in between when I've been weathering an emotional storm, when I want to call and say, "It's happening right now - can I come in and show this to you?" but I haven't had the courage. I felt weird today just leaving a voice mail message for the first time. I just felt like I had to explain why I made the next few appointments the way I did. He recently made a spur-of-the-moment decision to make our sessions every other week (because I started marital counseling with another therapist every other week - so we're flip-flopping appointments). I wasn't too happy about going to every two weeks for the individual therapy but I wasn't going to complain (I want to be a "good" patient) (hey, where's the emoticon with the wings and halo? ) But when I went to make more appointments today, there were so many conflicts between our schedules in August that if I had tried to follow this, my next appointment would be in 3 weeks, then the next one in another 3 weeks...and I'm just not willing to wait that long! So I made them for when I could, but I felt like I had to leave a voice mail explaining why I did that, just so he doesn't think I'm pushing boundaries. After all that I'm not sure if I took a risk, or if I'm still sick...a little of both, I think.

Anyway...I'm assuming that your T said yes to your request...but even if she had said no, I'm OK, you still grew a little bit by speaking up and asking for what you needed. But I'm glad she said yes and I look forward to hearing how it went for you!

So you feel that you are losing control...it sounds like you have been working to get to this point. Now is when it's all going to pay off, if you just stick with it and don't give up, like Z said.

The rocking back and forth...yes, yes, yes, I totally get that. The crisis that brought me to therapy had me doing that, while crying (more like "keening") in the fetal position, usually in the bathroom so no one would see me, or while going to sleep at night (my husband didn't see because I've been sleeping on the couch for over a year now).

You mentioned feeling in conflict with yourself. Is there another way to feel? Seriously, the only "benefit" being intellectually "smart" has given me is a wicked whip with which to lash out at myself for making yet another emotionally-based (and not too intelligent) decision. Being in therapy has only made this divide more obvious. AG recommended reading A General Theory of Love, and I'm so glad she did - it validated the reality of this problem, explained why things are this way, and most importantly, why therapy is so important, especially the really hard stuff like we're going through right now, and why it's the only way to make any lasting changes! Please read it if you haven't already done so...it might bring you some comfort and give you some courage. It certainly did for me. It doesn't replace the need to work through the hard stuff of therapy (darn it!), but it gave me a little more determination to keep going. And I'll take it!

Oh, and I just about jumped up out of my chair when I read this:

quote:

"who am I to complain that I have issues"

Here's my version: "Who am I to complain that I don't feel connected to my husband, and that I never got over my first love, when there are women in Afghanistan who are trapped for the rest of their lives in forced marriages with men who brutalize them every day."

Okay, well, that's a good point. But here's the problem: Looking at it this way doesn't fix my problem. It's another case of trying to fix limbic problems with the neocortical part of my brain (the "left" is trying to fix the "right" - and we both know how well that works. NOT!) And I'm finding out that my problems go deeper than lack of gratitude. I tried for years in AA to practice gratitude...and I did, and still do...but I still felt that I was hitting a brick wall somewhere...or maybe you could call it an invisible ceiling beyond which I could not grow. And I'm finding out that my issues aren't really about not appreciating my husband...and they're not really about not getting my first love...they're about things more fundamental than that.

Your mother not being there for you is HUGE. My mother wasn't there for me either...she was depressed, alcoholic, never really grew up herself...didn't want me and didn't like me. I decided at a very early age to take care of myself, meet my needs myself, by being...are you ready...IN CONTROL. Right? If I am in control of meeting my own needs, then I won't get hurt.

As AG has pointed out, this is an old coping mechanism that not only is no longer needed, it's actually getting in the way of what I do need. And I need to learn limbically...by experiencing a relationship with my therapist. It's got to get past my stubborn neocortex that thinks it knows everything (just ask it - it'll tell you). And a real emotional experience is the only thing that will do the trick. It means I have to get messy...and I'll bet you cringe at the thought of getting messy almost as much as I do.

Looking at how my mom wasn't there for me doesn't mean I'm going to sit there and blame her for my problems...I'm not...but my therapist recently encouraged me to envision myself as a child, and to try to develop some compassion for that little girl whose mom abandoned her. Please understand, I'm quite sure he's not encouraging me to feel self-pity or resentment. He said compassion. My first thought was, she's fine, she doesn't need anything. Then I realized...that sounds like my mom's voice. Scary. I've got a long way to go.

Today's session felt good...of course I'm trying to over analyze why. Last session some abandonment stuff had come up, and it seems like when that happens, my T usually seems nicer, gentler, friendlier the next session, like he's trying to reassure me that he won't abandon me. I was feeling very trusting of him today...and also like I'm attaching to him more, and thinking to myself, I'm really going to pay for this later. Does the negative self-talk ever stop, I wonder?

We just revisited some of the stuff we talked about before, I told him about the support I'm finding here and about the book I just got done reading, I described how our first marital session went with the other therapist, and I also asked to be evaluated for borderline personality disorder. We did also talk about transference a little but didn't have time to really get into it today. Next time.

I hope you don't mind that I wrote so much...it seems when I finally do find my voice, I just can't shut up. I heard there's an HTML slapper out there somewhere...I'd better watch out or I might get hit with it

Take care, everyone!
SG

Hi All

quote:

From SG: You said you told your T today how you feel about her. Good job! That's what we've been told we're supposed to do...keep talking. Now you are weathering the storm from talking...keep talking through this too! Tell us how it went. What did your therapist say?

Sometimes I don’t know what to write but I love SG's quote above and will keep sticking it in my posts to remind me I just need to write / keep talking / share what my T is saying.

I feel so much better after seeing my T yesterday. In fact I feel stronger today. I was really honest with her about her needing to understand how hard I find it to express myself being vulnerable. It’s almost like I feel that I NEED to let myself be vulnerable in front of her in order to move forward because my way of coping is to “control” everything. To be vulnerable is certainly not sitting there feeling in control – and that’s what I find so hard to do. I’m accustomed to being in control – NOT vulnerable.

quote:

FROM LTF - "wanting to curl up in a ball and rock back and forth is such a strong urge for me, sometimes i have to physically hold on to myself to keep from doing it. For the same reasons as you, i'm scared she'll think i'm a freak."

It’s like I need to let her (and I guess me) see my inner child. But it’s so scary. I worry (mind read?) that my T thinks I don’t need to show my vulnerability in order to move on – but I believe I do. I just don’t know how to let down that HUGE brick wall I have built around me to protect myself. I fear I might break if that wall comes down – that the wall is my last line of defence and if that’s not present and I’m not received well, then I seriously might break into tiny pieces because I really am so fragile.

quote:

FROM SG - "try to develop some compassion for that little girl whose mom abandoned her."

I find it so hard to be gentle and compassionate with my little girl / inner child. Perhaps this is what I will now learn to do through all this transference stuff.

quote:

FROM LTF - "Your T is the person you are paying to hear the real you. It's hard when you start having feelings for them because then you have doubts about how they'll react to the "real" you, what they'll think of you, if they'll still like you. Do you think this is part of the problem?

Yes, yes yes! As I said in one of the posts above:

"Normally I am a woman in control – I present myself nicely and sit opposite my T drinking a coffee. I like having something to hold in my hands – otherwise I don’t know what to do with them. Also having a coffee makes it feel like I am chatting with a friend rather than being in therapy. When I do this, I feel like I look normal and I feel equal to her. I have been doing this for 4 years."

LTF, I never lied to her about this either. I have always told her that it makes it easier to come to therapy if I pretend that we are just two friends catching up for a coffee. And it worked really well for me for 4 years – it’s just now that as I get closer to needing to be able to break down my wall, express my vulnerability and let my inner child speak, I will be more fragile – I won’t be sitting opposite her strong, and feeling equal – which is how I like to pretend I am. The real me is going to reveal itself at last and I am terrified of the repercussions (ie: Will she no longer like me? Will the dynamics of our relationship change forever?) My T said that she won’t change because she KNOWS all this transference stuff is about ME – not her. She can stand back and be objective and not take it personally and if she needs help she would do what any good therapist would do and seek out the help/advice/guidance of a supervisor if needed. It’s like by revealing the real me, it will bring me back to reality that she is “just my T”, that we aren’t equals. Yesterday, I felt she snapped and said “I’m not your friend. If you want to go for coffee, go with __ or ___." She also said "we aren't equals, you aren't my colleague, you are a patient who is here for help". It was too harsh a reply and I tried to let her know this. I mean this cover story in my mind of coming in for a coffee and pretending we are friends has worked for me for 4 years. BUT I need her to be gentle with me through the next stage – where I am finding the true me and accepting the true realities of our relationship, because anything that I perceive as yelling / getting cross just makes me (my inner child?) feel rejected / uselss.

quote:

FROM AG - "Human beings instinctually avoid pain, it's unhealthy not to, but in this case, the only way out is through, which means walking towards pain again and again. I know it seems impossible but with the support of an involved T it can be done."

AG, my T pretty much said the same stuff to me yesterday. She said I could leave now and use the coping strategies she has taught me to date or I can push a head for longer lasting change by changing my right brain through experience. She pretty much admitted that it meant walking towards the pain again and again.

quote:

FROM AG - "Your response, reactions and feelings are not a sign of pathology or sickness."

AG, my T also said the same thing! You should be a T! Have you ever thought about it? I think you would be excellent.


In SG's first ever post on this website, she put in the following website link: http://www.guidetopsychology.c...tic_transference.htm

Well I printed it and took it to my session with my T yesterday and she said it was a great article and is right on regarding transference, true love and a need to hoard the intoxicating feelings of being recognised and understood (which is something we missed out on when we were children).

Anyway, after my session two days ago, I wrote here that:

“It’s funny but it’s like I wasn’t really there in my session yesterday and I can’t remember much of what she said. How can you be physically present but not emotionally present? How in one of the most important sessions can I no remember what she said?”

And you know what my T said yesterday? She said everything we discussed on Wednesday was what was in the article in that website link. Perhaps the article hit home more b/c I could re-read it over and over again and I know my T says repetition is an important part in making long-term change.

HB – How did the house hunting go?

quote:

QUOTES FROM HB - "So whatever and however your transference is coming out for you, just march straight in there and tell it like it is. The more you can articulate and clarify your feelings the better you will remember, which is why writing it down helps."

"My only commitment to myself was to just show up for whatever happened and gradually a sense of who i am started to muddle its way through the fog of fear and confusion. And that is when my respect for the boundaries of therapy really kicked in, i needed my T to not move towards or away from me so i could see myself."

Wow – so true – thank you!

HB, can you elaborate a little more on:

quote:

"that is when my respect for the boundaries of therapy really kicked in, i needed my T to not move towards or away from me so i could see myself."

SG – I didn’t mind that you wrote so much – in fact, quite the opposite, I really appreciated it! Well done on rescheduling the appointments so the gaps will work for you a little better. And I’m glad your session was good too.

quote:

FROM SG - "Hey, where's the emoticon with the wings and halo?

SG, oh that’s gorgeous. Thanks for the visual and for making me laugh!

quote:

FROM SG - "It means I have to get messy...and I'll bet you cringe at the thought of getting messy almost as much as I do."

SG, that is beautiful – it reminds me of what HB wrote in one of my older posts when her T said to her:

quote:

"I would suggest that part of what bothers you is that you are, once again, looking for black and whiteness and there isn’t sufficient of that and so you are upset and confused – this situation is deliciously murky, isn’t it?"

Delicously murky / getting messy and

quote:

So you feel that you are losing control...it sounds like you have been working to get to this point.

That's it, that's me, that's not what I want but it's where I am headed because I think the future looks brighter that way (at least I hope it is).

Sorry about the long post everyone.

I'm OK

HB,

All I can say is WOW at your description of what our T's do for us:

quote:

...he stuck with truth when i wanted comfort, when i accused him of judging me, he didn't defend himself but explored my feelings, he never tried to be nice, or calm me but stayed with me and guided me into my fear. The only way he could do that was by being a professional, not a friend.

We have friends to get outraged on our behalf, or get cross with us when we do something stupid or insensitive but we have T's to help us go where we don't want to. We have T's to push us and hurt our delicate feelings, to ignore our grasping and pry us off their legs which we are clinging to because they know we can stand on our own two legs long before we do. We want them to grasp us around the waist and stand up for us but all they do is point out the table we can lean on while we get our balance. No wonder we get mad at them, they give us what we need not what we want, they force us to trust our own emotions not theirs.

We want them to play the game we play with everyone else in our lives, our game of fear and invulnerability, where we pretend we don't really care, where we never show our true feelings etc etc. They don't allow us to do that, instead they show us how to become real, how to laugh and cry, hurt and feel, love and live, have and lose. And they do it by being professionals, but the kindest, wisest, most generous professionals you can imagine.

I'll be rereading this for a while. It's beautiful. Thank you!

SG

Hi All

Hope you had a great weekend.

Well after all the rave reviews on this website, I have FINALLY ordered from Amazon the following two books:
1) "In Session: The Bond Between Women and Their Therapists"
2) A General Theory of Love

They will take at least a month to be shipped to Australia but I will look forward to reading them when they arrive.

quote:

FROM HB: "I will try to elaborate on what i meant by my T not moving towards or away from me. I think it is a bit like what your T did by reminding you that you are not friends and that you have the choice to stay and do the work or leave. As much as that must have stung she is being more kind than you can imagine. "

It did sting. It’s still stinging. As I have said above, my “cover story” has been that rather than thinking of myself as being in therapy, I prefer to think of it as if I am catching up with a friend over a coffee and chatting about some issues (even if I am paying her to be my friend ).

I haven’t been on line the past few days because I have been reading as much as I can about transference, etc. In particular, I have been back to the “guide to psychology” website. Once sentence from that website which stood out for me was “if you cling to the wish to be a friend with your psychotherapist, you are clinging to nothing more than an illusion behind which you hide your fear of abandonment and loneliness”

Now I’m going to ramble on here! Why? I have read so much over the weekend and am trying to process it all. So I’m going to cut and past the key points, which are mostly from the “Guide To Psychology” website, which I’ll shorten to “GTP” and include my own comments/thoughts if applicable.

OK, by now most of you know I am 33 years old. One of my issues is that I rarely cry. I don’t think I know how to let myself cry. I don't know how to let go and feel real emotions even after seeing my T for 4 years. However my wall, that has protected me from real emotions and crying, my wall that has been so strong is finally starting to show some cracks.

I read somewhere on MyShrink that not being able to cry has something to do with being so shut down. And on GTP, it mentioned “As an unconscious defense against this sort of frustration you then trained yourself to disconnect emotions from intellect” and that “a child in such a dysfunctional family learns to survive by suppressing and hiding any intense feelings”.

Disconnect emotions from intellect. That is so true, so me. I can say words like anger, scared, afraid, vulnerable, but I won’t allow myself to really feel them (other than black depression bordering on suicide – but this type of feeling is a “nothing” feeling – I need to learn to feel real emotion so I start to feel again if that makes any sense to any of you?).

So I think somehow through talking to my T and allowing her in and allowing myself to be open to feeling real emotions, this might be the first step.

I also gathered that once you get to a point where you can really feel the fear of the emotional pain from when you were little, you need to (according to GTP) “listen to that despair with compassion and let it tell its whole story, so that the very core of your heart will be transformed—rather than push your despair into some dark corner of your unconscious”.

My reading also introduced to me the idea that love and hate exist right beside each other in terms of feelings. Which is great b/c I have been starting to feel angry with my T (not that I’ve told her - which is probably b/c I don't even understand it myself!) and the GTP website said you “have to recognize that intense negative feelings, such as hurt and anger and resentment, exist in you right beside the good feelings. These negative feelings aren’t just unique to you, but they are in everyone; in fact, they’re a large part of human psychology. So you have to take responsibility for managing these feelings consciously, rather than letting them smoulder in the depths of the unconscious”.

And if you are feeling angry at your T, according to GTP “Most likely, the psychotherapist has simply done something during the ordinary course of psychotherapy that has touched on some emotional wound from your past, thus stimulating a whole reservoir of your unconscious anger. Yes, you feel rejected or angry with your psychotherapist for some actual event, but those intense feelings of yours really point right through the psychotherapist and back to unspoken anger from your own childhood. Thus your task in psychotherapy is not to get angry with your psychotherapist but to talk about the fact that you feel angry, no matter how frightening your feelings may seem. By learning how to speak about angry feelings in psychotherapy you essentially learn to do what you didn’t learn as a child: to be emotionally honest. And having learned to face your anger, you can then face the true pain of your wounds—and if you do that successfully, you will be able to forgive those who hurt you. And then you will be healed.

This (according to GTP) is “exactly where the next phase of your treatment is going, if it is to go anywhere productive. In short, you have to experience the flip-side of “love.” You have to realize how much you “hate” your psychotherapist, even though it doesn’t seem rational. You hate her in just the same way you hated your mother yet couldn’t express it. The best thing you can do, then, is to start speaking about all this in your psychotherapy, learn to express all that hurt and anger about unfulfilled needs from the past, when you were just another needy child on your mother’s list. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life running from the truth, and going nowhere."

GTP: "And there’s really only one psychotherapeutic solution to such a difficulty: you must speak about your experiences to your psychotherapist. Not just once, but over and over again, session after session, until one day something inexplicable will “click” and, with new insight, your intellect and emotions will begin to recognize each other."

GTP: "People get stuck here because they believe that such talking “over and over” is nothing but complaining or whining. But as long as your psychotherapist can listen to you and offer interpretations about connections between what you say and what you are feeling—even if you aren’t consciously aware of those feelings—and as long as you remain open to hearing and considering those interpretations, the work will be productive."

It appears though that there is an important step here (according to GTP):
“if psychotherapy is nothing more than insight, and if all that you do is dwell in the emotions of what you lacked in childhood, you will get stuck in self-pity. You will repetitiously act out your yearnings for your mother in your relations with others. And all that repetition will take you nowhere but in circles.
Therefore, to break out of that closed circle of always missing the point, you must act differently. Instead of unproductively and melancholically yearning for what you want, teach yourself to give to others. Now that you understand clearly what you most desire, give to others what you most desire yourself. Become a “mother” to everyone—not as a smothering mother who gives material things only to make herself feel wanted, but as a symbolic mother who gives from her heart spiritual qualities such as patience, understanding, encouragement, kindness, forbearance and forgiveness. Giving from your heart like this for the good of others, regardless of what others do to you, is called love, and through real love you will attain a closeness to others that is more enormous than you can imagine

So to summarise, through transference, I can learn to:
1) really feel
2) be compassionate to the little kid inside of me who didn’t get her needs met
3) learn how to go on live a happy and fulfilled life once I’ve learned about true love – true love that I can give to myself and then others.

Sounds easy?! I wish!

quote:

FROM HB: "We want them to play the game we play with everyone else in our lives, our game of fear and invulnerability, where we pretend we don't really care, where we never show our true feelings etc etc. They don't allow us to do that, instead they show us how to become real, how to laugh and cry, hurt and feel, love and live, have and lose. And they do it by being professionals, but the kindest, wisest, most generous professionals you can imagine."

So true HB.

Anyway all’s good with me, sorry for the lack of posting over the weekend, but I’m glad I could come online now and share with you where I am currently at with my therapy journey.

I'm OK

Thank you ALL for your recent posts. You give me much to ponder. Your insight about transference and relationship with your therapists is so helpful. I may someday be able to express my feelings here on the subject. It seems like you are all growing by talking things over on this website. I am so glad to have found this site. Luna

quote:

I have a question AG, in your sessions, do/did you sit rigid in your chair, lay down and cry or what?

Hi I'm OK,
Sorry I have taken so long to respond! Life keeps intruding.

My T's office has a recliner which he sits in and across from it is a loveseat and chair. I sit on the left side of the loveseat both during my couples session and my individual sessions. (There are a couple of pillows on the loveseat which I love to clutch for comfort!). My husband sits in the chair. We tried switching once and got really uncomfortable. Like sleeping on the wrong side of the bed. There's a large round table in the middle with a whole lot of knickknacks (most of which are obviously patient gifts). As far as how I am, I'm not sure how to put this, but for a very long time I was just a mess during sessions. And crying? I can count on one hand the number of therapy sessions I've had WITHOUT crying. I should be charged a tissue surcharge, seriously.

Actually, as I've healed I've become noticably calmer in sessions and can actually keep my glasses on, my eyes open and not get hysterical. But through most of therapy, I have not been what you would call calm or controlled. So much of my memories and feelings are expressed somatically, so my body usually is a good reflection of my feelings. So I am often rigid, clenched into a ball with my hands over my head. I can often cry for minutes at a time without being able to speak (during which my T will often soothe me like he's talking to a toddler, which embarrassingly really helps) Sometimes I'm so scared that I actually have to sit and shake for a few minutes before I can talk. When I'm really upset I stop breathing (really no joke, my T often has to tell me to remember to breathe which totally cracked me up the first time and which I now find very reassuring. The first counted cross stitch I made after an 18 year break just says "Breathe" and hangs on my office wall. ) We have actually worked on my being able to keep my eyes open so I could realize that I'm safe and in the present.

In case its not coming across, I'm generally a convoluted mess during sessions. Oh and occasionally I would ask for a blanket, which eventually I asked my T if I could have it and gave him a new one to replace it.

quote:

Also, I get where you are going with all the early childhood stuff / attachment theory but a huge part of me thinks "who am I to complain that I have issues" – I mean I was fortunate enough to have never been sexually abused, my parents weren’t alcoholics, I always had food, warmth and shelter. I did have a mother who suffered from depression, and occasionally psychosis, and therefore she wasn’t emotionally there for me. She was also very religious – too far if you know what I mean (there was no balance at all) – but I don’t think this is significant enough history for me to react to life the way I do. There are a lot of people who have really suffered - way more than I ever have - why can't I just pull up my sock and get on with life?

You just hit one of my pet peeves! Trauma and pain are NOT a competition. For my full, unbridled opinion, see this thread:

Really, really mad Keep reading through it, some of the most relevant stuff is further on.

quote:

Thanks again for all your support. I think there's a long way for me to go and probably a lot more posts to come.

You are more than welcome, and keep it coming that's what we're here for. And I totally agree with Strummergirl, it's amazing how much it helps to help other people. I know that often by writing in response to other people, it really helps me to clarify my beliefs and thoughts and provides an affirmation of what I've learned.

AG