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33 replies

Here we go again with no response. Need support- feel like this is it.

nobledaughternobledaughterMember
I just sent this to him. I am so scared that he might really leave. I need help breaking this pattern. If I don't hear from him by 10:30 tonight I don't know what I'll do. This hurts so much. Please don't say he's bad. He's not. There's something I'm missing or something we're not on the same page about. There is nothing that I didn't say.

T,

I had another ah ha moment today when I caught myself almost getting into the frantic pattern of trying to get a response from “a man”- you.
As good as it is that I saw this. I cannot take this anymore. I am having to work so hard to stay calm and not get hysterical crying.

Two weeks ago, with you, I had a terribly revealing session that I didn’t expect and we have not discussed it at all. What is supposed to happen after a session like that? I have this gaping wound that is just getting more infested with my desperate thoughts about you really being here for me. Last week we did not get to talk about what happened two weeks ago because we were mainly dealing with these attachment/transference issues and my email to you giving you permission to step away. I told you I could survive if you chose not to be my therapist. I told you it was better that you step away than say you are here for me and not be. You said “we are doing this together.” You said you accepted my attachment and were willing to experience the transference with me. You said I could lean on you.

I know that you’ve been trying to get me in sooner and add a few sessions and I appreciate that! I would be patient with picking up from our session two weeks ago if we were not here today- with more of the same issues that made up most of last week’s discussion. I am using my skills but I am exhausted from this. I’ve charted what I see has transpired below.

ME
10/5 appointment- I read my email to you. You said “we were doing this together.” You answered yes when I asked if I could lean on you; you said you were in this with me

T 10/5-10/6 texts to make appts

ME 10/7/2011 I texted and passively asked for support.

T No response

ME 10/10 I asked about cancellation.

T 10/10 responded, no cancellation

ME 10/10 AM I texted and passively asked for support.

T no response

ME 10/10 PM I self-blamed and more overtly asked for support.

T no response
ME

ME 10/11- I planned to wait until 2 PM to text again as to not interrupt family time. Then I noticed that I was about to begin the frantic pattern of trying to get [a man to respond] you to talk/respond to me. [Where are you? Why are you not responding? Why are you doing this? What did I do?] That would ultimately lead to me pushing you away. I don’t want to do this. I don’t want to continue this pattern with you. I don’t know what to do.

It was quite an ah ha when I saw my frantic thoughts and ideas/what if scenarios- and attempt to stop the pattern. But still, I am left with the anxiety and other difficult emotions of grief, fear, confusion and more. I am very upset thinking even if you responded now because I pleaded- you didn’t really want to.

I’m SO SORRY but I don’t understand how [you] anyone can be so busy that you could not send a short response to me. I’m sorry I don’t understand your life; I don’t know your life or your daily schedule or the other demands on your time. But I know that you know where I’ve been. I feel like I unearthed the devil two weeks ago and it seems to me that for you it’s like nothing happened. What don’t I understand about this? What is the lesson I need to learn? Do you believe this is histrionic and is not real to me? Because this is real to me. You said “yes” when I asked if I could lean on you. I guess I need to ask you what does that mean? Can I not trust myself at all to be fair with you?

I don’t want to spend my next session on this-AGAIN. This is making me feel crazy like I have some absurd, unrealistic need or expectation, like I’m in my own world. I am physically hurting from this and by Thursday, I am concerned where I’ll be. I exercised all weekend and I am going to Zumba tonight. But I wouldn’t be in therapy if I could figure this out myself. I have not slept well in two days.

I was not going to contact you again. I was going to try and sort this out with your female colleague I used to see. But after I wrote the email to her, I revised it to send to you. She would tell me that I need to process this with you. That “it’s very important to the therapeutic relationship and it needs to be processed before we dive into the other issues of the week.”

I KNOW IT’S GOOD THAT I STOPPED THE FRANTIC PATTERN BUT: HOW DO I FEEL BETTER HERE? WHAT DON’T I UNDERSTAND ABOUT RELATIONSHIPS? WHY DOES IT SEEM THAT I DON’T MATTER ENOUGH TO SEND A 30 SECOND EMAIL? HOW CAN NOT PERSONALIZE THIS?

Where does this leave me? Right now, I’m right back where I was at our last session- wondering if you are going to take me up on my offer to not see me. I feel terror. I am so sad and so upset and thank God I have my wits about me because feelings like this have led to horrible things in the past.

T, I continue to say, I so much do not want to lose you. But if this the only way it can be then I cannot do this anymore. Please help me find the middle ground. I so don’t want to push you away and I do feel very frantic now. If I am in the pattern and I don’t know it can you please help me get out of it? I don’t think I am. I am being completely honest.
Original Post

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blackbirdblackbirdMember
It's going to be ok, ND. really. I could have written your post about 4 months ago, and I know how frantic and inaccessible and cut off you can feel. These are truly scary emotions to feel! Awful. But they are just that, emotions, and emotions do not always tell us the truth about what is happening, but rather, give us information about ourselves. Of course you know that. Take deep breaths. Your T is still there where he was before, and you are going to be ok, get through this spell. I know it feels intolerable. Keep sitting with it. It's going to be ok. When do you next see T in session?

BB
L lieseMember
ND,

How often do you see T? Do you have scheduled appointments or do you always have to wait for a cancellation?

Have you talked to T about your texts and how soon after you soon one should you expect a response?

It's so much better to ask outright about his out of session contact policy, etc. so that you don't fill in the gaps with negative thoughts that are so painful.

The pain really stinks. Frowner Hope he responds soon. I'm so confused. Is this the T you had to leave because he was having countertransference issues?

xoxo

Liese
scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
ND,

I agree with Liese. I would have a very honest discussion about the out of session contact with your T the next time you see him. Make it the first priority so that you know what you can expect and what he is willing to do. Hopefully he can give you some guidelines and let you know how long to expect for a response, during what hours he will respond etc.

If you are perpetually on a cancellation list just to get a session I would strongly suggest at least finding an adjunct T. This work is too painful to do when you can't even count on a regular session.

sdsdMember
Hugs ND - I absolutely know your pain and anguish - this happens to me each week. Annoys the crap out of my and I go super crazy. At least now I have done reading on it and I know WHY I feel like it.

What you wrote to T was great - you need to talk to him about it and establish base rules about contact. T needs to know how much contact you need and the expectation that emails are at least acknowledged. Do they realise how we are left hanging when there is no response?
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
Thank you all so much. I tried to respond earlier from my phone but it kind of crashed. You all really helped me calm down. My next appointment with my T is Thursday at Noon. After our session two weeks ago and out talk last week about this same issue, he's been trying to schedule me additional appointments and was trying to get me in sooner than Thursday but our schedules have not coordinated. I thought we discussed all this. But I never said- I need to hear from you "every other text." I want to hear from him when he's is moved to reply not just out of being required. I want him to want to respond to be moved to respond. I want him to want to respond to help me. I still haven't heard from him although I figure it would be after 10. He works from like 1 or 2 PM until 9 or 10 at night. I need more appointments to get through this CSA and other issues related. I went to Zumba and the endorphins really help. I don't know what I';; do if he doesn't reply tonight or tomorrow. I know it will feel like it's malicious. I will fail like a failure if I cannot do this with him. Thank you all for your support. I hope I sleep tonight.
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
OH - I forgot one thing. This is not the T who had major counter transference and abandoned me. This is the T that helped me get off the SU watch and referred me to his female colleague because he recognized that I was having so much transference with him that it was going to interfere with any progress. At that time he promised me that he was not abandoning me. He told me that I back with him.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I'm sorry, ND. This is really hard. It often feels like things are not authentic if I have to ask for them. And, whether or not I ask, whenever I receive something from someone, I feel like I've somehow manipulated to get it. Texting with my T was an absolute horror in the beginning as a result of lack of defined boundaries (my T really doesn't really have any regarding receiving texts, it seems, but I couldn't believe it when he said that) and expectations.

I have found that since starting to identify my needs (both internally and to my T), that my needs in that relationship are getting met more consistently and I am less panicked. This applies to everything, not just texting. Telling T how certain things he says/does trigger me, repeatedly hashing out boundaries together, and yes, knowing when things I am sharing via text require an immediate response or thins in texts/journals need to be followed up in session.

Sure, it was awkward at first to text, "When you get a chance, just need reassurance that you're not going anywhere." I think something like that wouldn't have worked in the beginning, but several months in, when I started doing that, my T had already proven to be 1) trustworthy; 2) consistent in his care toward me; 3) honest. So, I absolutely know he wouldn't say or text the things he does just because I ask him to reply. Asking for something doesn't change the feelings underneath what he says or does. He has shown me that he can say "No" or "Maybe" or "Let's talk more about that," and will say things that are true even if he knows they aren't just what I want to hear. So, when he says he cares, isn't going anywhere, expresses empathy for my pain, etc., I try to take him at his word, whether or not it "feels" true in the moment. And the more I have practiced doing that and observing how his actions match up with those statements, bit by bit, it starts to feel true.

Does that mean I never panic about it, never doubt it, never feel like I'm waiting for it to fall apart and go wrong? Of course not. But, when I'm not panicking, there is a certain amount of...power isn't the right word...umm...strength, enabling somehow...to be able to ask and receive like that. It's still incredibly difficult for me, but every once in a while, I can feel what it's like to sense being connected, vulnerable and safe all at the same time.

Anyway, I know it's hard, it takes work, time and patience, but I do hope someday you're able to have that sort of experience on a regular basis.
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
It's 11 PM mountain time and I haven't heard from T. My emo mind is telling me he's deliberately being cruel. I may text him before I go to bed and tell him- " you must really not understand the pain I am in. You must not understand how hard I am having to work to not be completely emotional." I might even call a crisis line. I don't know. I don't understand how he can do this. This is when I worry that he's had a family tragedy because what else could cause him to totally ignore me.
blackbirdblackbirdMember
Hi, ND...I hope you are doing ok today. One more day...you can do this.

I agree about figuring out what the boundaries around the out-of-session contact are, because if you know what they are, and what to expect, it may really help to stabilize you.

The thing about texting is that you don't really know why he hasn't responded, there are any number of good reasons, and it's not because he is being cruel to you. It's because he..didn't get the texts cause his phone is off, or, he out of town for a day or two and forgot to bring his phone with him- or..he wants to talk to you in person not on text, because he thinks it will help you to process things that way. Your best bet, if you choose to text him before your appointment tomorrow, would be to tell him exactly what is going on for you, in as short a sentence as you can. Something like: "Need a response from you, badly, please." If you don't hear back after a text like that, than I suspect he is not reading texts for some unknown reason, and you will see him tomorrow and can ask him about it then.

Chin up! ((((((ND)))))))

Love,

Beebs
scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
ND,

I'm sorry that you haven't heard back from him. I'm sure that the lack of response doesn't have anything to do with you personally though I know it can be hard to keep that in mind while you wait.

quote:
passively asked for support.


I noticed you said this a lot in your descriptions of your exchanges above. This might be part of the issue. I know it is really hard, but it would probably help your T to know how to help you if you were very specific about your needs and asked for what you need. Passively asking for support leaves a great deal of interpretation out there for your T and might be setting yourself up to be disappointed when you don't get a response and may give T the impression that you don't need one. T's can't read minds and I think texting makes it that much harder because there is no tone or body language to go with it. I agree with BB, something like, "I am really struggling. I need a response from you...." and then something like "I need to know you are there." or "I need reassurance that I'm going to get through this" whatever it is that you need.

Hang in there!
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
My last text to him at 11:15 last night was extremely direct and deeply emotional. I can absolutely see the borderline coming out. However this is not all me. I did call the crisis line last night and spoke with them for 26 minute long enough to cry and talk. It was helpful to have someone listen to me and offer some compassion. I did finally fall asleep after I was able to breath. I got a sleep -brainwave thing off you tube and it really knocked me out. I'm not sure if that's a coincidence. I woke up numb but extremely focused on getting through the day. I head from T at 9 Am. He said, "Don't be ashamed, you will make it through. We will meet soon and process through this." He also tried to offer me an appoint today because a client cancelled and then uncancelled. I wouldn't have gone anyway. I need to focus on my work. I did not respond to him until 11 after taking time to think and breath and stay focused on the class I was in all day. I was not elated when he texted. I just accepted it. At 11 I texted him and started with I don't even know what to say to u. I told him about calling the crisis line and that I can't have the pain anymore. I told him how I felt about not wanting to be here anymore and not having felt this bad in a very long time. He responded: " Remember: this too shall pass. It will have an end. Hold on to hope!" I am angry at him for perpetuating this pattern and not doing more to help me out of it. Tonight I am calm. My class was awesome. I felt on top of my professional game. Right now the only expectation I have for tomorrow is that there will not be nearly enough time and we won't get to the session of two weeks ago. I am heading out with my church tonight. Thank you all for your support. It really helped me. I am alive and coping and focused. Smiler
unbrokenunbrokenMember
ND,

I came here to post the same issue, and found this thread. My T has ignored one phone call, one text, and an email. She has yet to respond, and I know she has been online because I saw her stupid gmail chat account was activated/on. SO, I don't get why they do this to us. I am about to freak out and cry myself, but I am trying to remain strong. I hate this. I know it's probably because I directly didn't ask for a response. BUT, seriously--she heard my cry on Monday night, she saw the emotionally ridden text, and then the stupid email I sent explained it all. YET, she leaves me writhing in pain again. I am so mad at her right now, I keep thinking that I am not going back.

This is the T that accepted my attachment----and I loved her last week.

Today I am FURIOUS!

Good luck and hugs to you. Hope it works out in the end for the both of us.

Love, Brokes
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
ND, Broken, GG and all of you who are struggling with inconsistent, fuzzy boundaried, unreliable Ts... I am so sorry for what you are going through... all the pain and sadness and worry. It just makes me very angry when Ts behave like this, especially with patients with attachment injury and dependency fears Mad It's amazing to me that they don't realize that they are making things worse and not better. I want to shake them and ask them if they had a 3 year old who had nightmares, would they tell their child...if you are terrified call me and maybe I'll come to you and maybe I won't maybe I'll be too busy, tired, distracted, annoyed to comfort you and so you will just need to learn to comfort yourself because I certainly don't want you to become dependent on me...oh horrors!! Well that is what they are doing to their attachment injured patients when they say call me and if you are lucky and I'm in a good mood I'll get back to you.

How can you learn to trust and develop a sense of safety with someone who behaves like that? The only way a traumatized patient can learn to feel safe is with a T who is absolutely as consistent as humanly possible. I will grant a few missteps because they are human but they need to be dependable 96% of the time.

I was horribly damaged by a T who was inconsistent, defensive and had fuzzy boundaries, especially around outside contact. In the end I was abandoned ad traumatized by him. The only reason I was able to make as much progress as I have with my current T is because he is boringly consistent. Do you think I would ever be able to trust a T again if he was going to jerk me around with outside contact issues. No way. When he tells me to email and he will respond within 24 hours...he does. He missed an email once in a year. I know if I email at night I will absolutely get a response the next morning before 9am. If I need him more immediately I am told to page him. He will then call me back within an hour or two. I am told if I do not hear back from him by then to re-page him. And I do. He does not do texting and that is fine. He allows contact on his vacation for urgent matters. He allows paging and emailing on weekends for whatever reason.

The reason I have come to trust him and to relax (for the most part) into this relationship is because he does what he says he will do and because I have seen his pattern of consistency and dependability. His boundaries are VERY clear and are openly discussed (except for the "touch" conversation which we have not had yet, although he told me right away that handshakes are fine and he does pat my shoulder).

I urge all of you to have this outside contact conversation and have it clearly defined with no guess work. If they cannot follow through on their allowing the contact then you must be told. Otherwise this inconsistency will play havoc with any attachment, growth and trust that you wll try to work on in the therapy.

Just my opinion as one who has been on both sides of this issue.


to all

TN
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
Hi Broken, I'm sorry you're going through this again too. And TN is right. I have no idea what is going to happen tomorrow.I don't know if I'll be angry or desperate. But I don't want his "crumbs." I can't just accept the minimum.I am so thankful that the panic and pain is far dulled and I just be. Broken, please let me know how it goes. My thoughts are with you and I deeply appreciate everyone on this forum.
sdsdMember
Hugs to all of you. This just upsets me so much. I feel everyone's pain like nothing else - it shocks me to my bones.

TN thanks for your awesome post. I delayed commenting as I copy and pasted some of it into an email and sent if off to my psych asking her for her comments, reassurance and to prompt that discussion about what she will and won't provide. I don't need to be going through any more pain. I have had my truckload.

If your experiences here and TN's thoughtful post helps me - thanks.

I just hate T's for acting so inconsistently.

"And this too shall pass" - what an EFFING crockload of S.H.I.T that is. Who is that supposed to console?
lamplighterlamplighterMember
ND hope your session tomorrow resolves some of this painful stuff that’s come up for you. I happen to agree with TN about the necessity for getting out of session contact boundaries clarified – it’s too easy to make assumptions about a T’s responding only to get all screwed up because they don’t act in the way we (quite naturally) expect. And especially so as from what you’ve said, T’s non responsiveness to your texts and emails is persistently getting in the way of your being able to process the things that came up in a previous session. Perhaps if you get your mind set tomorrow to sorting out the out of session contact once and for all, then your sessions need not be sidetracked in future.

Although having said that, maybe this is ALSO the kind of thing that’s important to process in session as well, and not just something that’s sidetracking your therapy?

I’m glad you are in a calm and focused place, I hope you can stay that way for your session and really get things resolved. Good luck ND.

LL
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
Hi - wow, I can't believe how dysregulated I became! Looking back to a few days ago, I feel like a different person- scary! Well, I saw my T this after noon and we fully processed what happened. I swear- he's brilliant. We were trying to find the trigger that made me lose my sense of self- and we did. It was the email my mom sent me basically invalidating all of my childhood memories and experiences. Then adding to it T not responding, began the emotional collapse. Basically, as far as responding- at first he asked me to tell him I need a response. He said he gets texts all the time from clients and sometimes he just reads them while he's driving. When I asked him why he finally decided to respond yesterday morning he told me that it was actually the first time in days that he sat down and had time to go through the text. I believe him. We processed how much I want him to want to respond and that's true. We talked about the residual pain. He told me he is with me and we are doing this together. He also emphatically told me to text him whenever and he will respond but he said he might not respond at 2 AM Smiler I shared the email my mom sent me and it was so clear why it triggered me. I have so much clarity right now and the residual pain is dissipating. I feel very good about the session and very good about his not letting me go any where. He once again commended me on my work. How are you Broken? Thanks LL- to answer your question, this issue I handled with him today is a major issue and pattern with men. He is allowing me to say whatever I need to about wanting him and needing him and what I wish. Thank you all.
ladygreyladygreyMember
ND,

This sounds very painful. I'm glad that you got it resolved with T and hopefully going forward he is able to give you the assurance and connection that you are seeking.

I often have struggled with the very same thing with my T1 with regard to her taking a while to get back to me on texts. She used to be very prompt but then started pulling back and I'm convinced its intentional, to wean me off of them. This leads to all kinds of crazy panicky thoughts in me and I know how scary that can feel when are feeling abandoned and ignored by your T. It sounds as though your T was simply busy and is going to make more of an effort to get back to you. I hope that should he find himself to busy to get back to you, you are able to recognize that he is not ignoring you.
mad hattermad hatterMember
Late to the party, ND, but wondering how you have been coping since last Thursday when you wrote here last. Has your T been responding to texts like he said he would? Has your anxiety decreased?

With my own T I have learned that she usually responds...eventually...but the waiting inbetween is when I am vulnerable to psyching myself out. Then I usually find resolution, either when I finally receive a text or have a session where we can discuss my anxiety. But the resolution is always temporary since I have this strong tendency to repeat the ordeal endlessly. Just when I think I have made progress, I go backwards.

Just in case you find it happening to you again as well, I am sending compassionate hugs for the pain.
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
Hi MH,
Things are going good with T. I am going through a very difficult time so I am counting the minutes until my session tomorrow. I did text T yesterday afternoon and I ended up going to be at 6 PM last night after not sleeping the night prior. I woke up at midnight and he had not texted back so I texted him at midnight- did you see my text? He texted back at 6:08 this morning that he had only seen the second one. So I know he's watching out for me. I resent the text I sent yesterday which was quite loaded with angst and I have not heard back. Now is his family time so I likely won't until later. Thanks for asking.
sdsdMember
ND - your T really came through and I am so happy. I had a similar chat to my T today and we sorted a lot of things out. I am coming to the realisation that my T is with me also - but I am still too injured to totally accept her. When i read about your T - i felt warm and fuzzy inside - and then I thought ' but I think my T would say that too' and then I had to stop and think that maybe I can transfer those warm and fuzzies to my own T. Wow, is that an attachment forming there.....

My T also - always asked me what happened that caused me to unhinge. We usually track down a reason for stuff - and it was great that you could track it back to your mum's email.

Isn't is so frightening and how quickly and deeply we can unravel. It scares me.
nobledaughternobledaughterMember
I don't know how to rename a thread to say update. So I'll just say this is an update. I am more calm than I've been in a week and I feel incredibly blessed. I had my session today and the bottom line is that my T has me very securely. I was completely honest and today was a lot about the transference and me missing him so much during the week. I was able to tell him that and to ask about more time. Long story short, there was a lot of conversation about me also seeing his associate for "surface" day to day issues when needed. But I told him that I really felt I needed to stay with him only right now. I told him I want to work through the transference with him. So, he gave me another session on Monday and I know that he had to make some exceptions in his schedule. But he is going to do this with me. Monday we are going right into the session a few weeks ago when i disclosed a lot of the CSA. He knows that what's next is right on the surface in fact I almost disclosed today towards the end of the session and he helped me not to disclose because we would not have had time to process it. I told him that sometimes when I'm with him I feel like an adult but more often, I feel like a child. It's super weird. Anyway, you all are helping me so much with confrontation and honesty and now my T is holding me and I fee l it.

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