I would be taking THEIR object out of the heart box and putting it next to it but not in it.

I really would be affected by this AG.

The other person may not even realise at all that they have put their gift inside a significant object - so that might be all innocent - but that wouldn't help my feelings, I would be taking it out of there - or even moving the box to put it out of anyone else's reach.

Not exactly the same but.... when T went away recently she bought an office plant and gave it to me to mind. It was brand new from the shop and came to me before any clients saw it. I minded it for 4 weeks and watched it grow and have flowers (it is an orchid with stunning flowers)and took it back to T early the first morning she worked. So I nurtured and cared for it and there is a very special feeling when I look at that plant. I owned that plant first and I have had it longer than my T has had it. It is now in the office and when I see it, it is a part of my incredible pain that i felt when t was away. I look at it and I go into a weird headspace. It is intimate to me.

Now that intimacy and special experience sits on the table next to where all the clients sit and everyone looks at it, comments on it and shares in it. I feel that I have given away something of MINE. And I don't want to share it.

Somedays

Hi, AG.

I think your reaction is entirely human and understandable. I would have felt the same way, but I would not have had the courage/vulnerability to admit it! (((AG))) I'm sorry this happened, because it's the "little things" that really can hurt.

The only other thought I can offer is that your T is in a bad spot here: He has inadvertently set up a situation where your needs and another client's needs are in conflict. I don't know how he can resolve the problem without seeming to favor one client over the other. Maybe rearrange all of the objects and then announce to the other client that he wanted to change things up?

My T has an object I gave her displayed on a table near the couch. I always worry that it won't be there one day, that she'll remove it. It almost makes me wish she had never displayed it at all, because what will it mean if she decides to remove it? We are all so vulnerable with our Ts, as with our parents...
I feel your hurt, AG.

RabbitEars

AG:

I honestly do not think you are overreacting at all...However, I was thinking once you give someone a gift, do we have the right to tell them or instruct them on how or what they should do with this gift?

I certainly don't mean this in an offensive way but you have the gift to your T and it was given and received with a special meaning.

Honestly, I would want to take what is in it out...but then I was thinking he should be able to do with the gift as he would like and still maintain the meaning in which it was given.

T.

Hi AG,

I can certainly understand how you feel about someone else using your heart box and think you should do whatever works best for you. I only want to comment on this

quote:

But here's the thing, the more I think about it, the more obnoxious it seems to me that the other client put something of theirs in another person's gift. I mean, I'm hesitating to move it because I am not sure what it means to them, and then it hits me that they weren't all that concerned about my feelings.

I think it is possible that the other client doesn't realize that the heart box came from a client and might think it just belongs to your T. Would your T have told the client that it came from another client even if she didn't ask, probably not?

I have a similar concern in reverse. Starting last christmas holiday and now this summer break my T has given me one of a matching set of stuffed animals that sit beside his chair in the office (the kind that are identical in different colours and arms are intertwined). I have been assuming that they are my T's but I might be wrong and they might have been given to him by a client hopefully former because it would be awful to come to his office and see one of them missing if I had given them. I didn't consider that possibility originally and this other client may not have considered that the heart meant something to anyone but her and T.

That doesn't change how you feel however and I think it is something that you would have to discuss more with T knowing that he won't tell you about the other client and what the object might mean to them. He will of course hear what it means to you. I am almost imagining a repetive loop, you take it out and put it beside the heart box, other client puts it back in during their session, you take it out,...and so on and so on.

Grist for the mill as therapist's like to say. so much fun (said with heavy sarcasm)

AG, I would be ticked as well. On of the thoughts I had was, if you have an old little box that maybe some earrings came in, you could take that in and give the the other piece it's own box. Of course you would have to explain that to your T but it sounds like he is fully aware of the symbolism involved.

BTW, you are awfully brave to bring it up. Wish I had some of that.

(((AG)))

Hope it's okay that I'm chiming in here. It is an interesting dilemma to me because I would feel exactly the same way you do. In my opinion, these feelings are incredibly normal. We are human and we are driven to protect ourselves and everything that protects us.

quote:

because I was afraid that would be really hurtful for the other person. To which my T replied "or they just might put it back."

What you thought here was a projection, what you would feel if someone took your stone out. I do this all the time with my T. I decide what he must be feeling when he does something based on how I would feel if I did the very same thing and it very often turns out not to be the case.

Maybe what your T was saying here was NOT to concern yourself with how the other person felt because they might NOT actually be hurt. And look at where you went from there? You caused yourself so much emotional pain just thinking that this other person did it intentionally to hurt you.

Maybe he wants you to focus on your feelings. Not only because the other person was focused on their feelings but because your focus should be on your feelings. You have a right to have a special gift that only you and your T share.

quote:

the more I think about it, the more obnoxious it seems to me that the other client put something of theirs in another person's gift. I mean, I'm hesitating to move it because I am not sure what it means to them, and then it hits me that they weren't all that concerned about my feelings.

This is more of the same type of thinking. It seems only logical that if they knew you would be hurt by it, then of course it IS obnoxious. It's probably those thoughts were formed in childhood when someone WAS trying to hurt you and when it WAS very personal. It couldn't be personal now because this person doesn't know you.

Even though I would feel the same way you do, there is something heartwarming about a container where clients can leave or give their hearts to T for safekeeping. And maybe when someone needs T's heart, he can give one to the client for as long as they need? Kind of like tangible proof of how love actually works? Hey, order a whole bunch of hearts for the container and buy a bigger heart for a community heartchest. My T doesn't have a coffee table, darn it, otherwise I'd do it.

I don't usually post but I so understand your feelings!!!! You have every right to be pissed! My T and I share a special gift that she has kept on a table next to the couch where I sit. It has always been there exclusively along with a box of kleenex and lamp. Then about a month ago a framed picture of a quote about butterflies spreading their wings now sits there. It infuriates me. I haven't said anything to T cause I feel like a selfish jerk letting it bother me. I want to whip it at the wall and smash it. So, someone putting their shit in your box IS obnoxious and you have every right to be hurt and mad about it.
So sorry you have to struggle with this. Don't know how my words help at all. Hang in there!

Is it possible that your T. put the ceramic piece in there? Maybe it is something significant to him.

Another side to consider is if it was another client who put the ceramic piece in there, they may not understand the significance of the heart box to you. They made not have thought that it was a gift and a gift of significance just between you and T.

Bottom line though, I wouldn't want someone else's trinket in the box either. I'd go back, take the trinket out and put it elsewhere.

Thank you all for your replies, it helps me to accept my own feelings.

Somedays,
Thanks for saying you would be affected too. I really understand about the plant, I would feel that way also. I do realize the other person might now realize what they were doing, and I cannot know without talking to them, but please trust me, it does not take a rocket scientist to observe that most of the stuff on the table are gifts from clients. I have mentioned something new on the table (yes, I notice ANY changes in the office environment) and my T has commented if it is something he got himself. But I take your point. One of the things my T was pointing out was that it was ok I was feeling that way and expressing it.

And you’re also right, there is something incredibly intimate, and vulnerable, about this object. It just feels intrusive to me.

RE,
Thanks for your compassion and understanding. I do agree that my T is in bad spot (but I know him well enough to know he’s working through it with both of us. ) I understand your fears about removal. T and I once discussed it (I also have a counted cross stitch I designed and made for him hanging next to his desk. ) and he has told me that there is not room for everything he has been given over the years, but even when he needs to remove something it is treated with respect and care. My best guess is that as long as I am an active climate, my stuff will stay put.

But what you said does help in that I think part of me was bothered that my T allowed something to be placed in there, but I didn’t think through how it would have felt is he had stopped the other person; it would look like he was favoring me. And I will grant that he was allowing me the perfect freedom to do what I wanted. I told him I needed to think about it.

((Draggers))

quote:

Though i wouldnt be placing it anywhere...i'd be lobbing it!!the bloomin cheek of it....ok i would PLACE it next to the trash can.

Thank you Draggers, that totally cracked me up, and pretty much captured the feelings. Think they would get the hint? I don’t really want to do that, but it is how I am feeling. MINE MINE MINE. It’s so lovely feeling like your average 3 year old is more mature than me right now.

TAS,
Not offended at all, I don’t openly ask for feedback unless I am prepared to hear anything. I think you made a very important point and it reminded me of something that happened when I gave my T the box. When I gave it to him, I really was feeling very secure and had this sense of him having enough to give to all of his clients, so when I gave it to him, I told him that if someday he wanted to pass it along to someone else that would be really cool (evidently I am not as sanguine about the possibility as I’d like to think. ) and he had this great reaction. He actually clutched it to his chest and said they could take a picture of it but it was his. There was also a session during which I noticed the box was closed and commented on it. He told me he didn’t know who closed it and there was a pause. Then he asked “do you want it open?” (it was a highly timely question) and I said “that is the question, isn’t it? I want it open” and I leaned forward and opened it up. He broke out in this big grin and said “thanks for waiting for me to ask, it is mine now.”

AND you are also right that the meaning between us is not changed. That box is only a symbol of the mystery that holds the stars apart. that we carry each other in our hearts, a connection which transcends time and space and will exist long after that box and stone have turned to dust.

But dammnit! It’s my symbol, go get your own! Just keepin’ it honest, here. Thanks for this, it was very helpful.


((Cogs))
You’re right, the most my T has ever said about anything that has appeared on that table is something very neutral along the lines of “yes that’s new.” He would never talk about another client’s feelings aside from an abstract example. And it seems churlish to complain, since I do love having it there and am very aware that its in plain sight for any other clients. The truth is, and I told my T this, I do not want to share him. I know that I have to, and in my better moments know that I do NOT matter less because he cares for other people (I mean I certainly have other relationships which are as important to me). Love is NOT zero-sum game, we always have as much as we need. I know this desire comes from a young part of me that longs to be special and cherished. Its not really even about my T, but the poor man bears the brunt of it.

I love the idea of your monkey, but don’t think you should worry about it. Your T knew what he was doing and I have to believe that if it was something from another client, he would not have offered it unless it knew it was going to be ok with them. I mean, I don’t think my T said, “hey do you want to put something in the heart box?”

quote:

I am almost imagining a repetive loop, you take it out and put it beside the heart box, other client puts it back in during their session, you take it out,...and so on and so on.

I had the same thought Cogs. And had to laugh at how farcical it would be. I haven’t decided if I want to do anything, I really just felt a need to express how I felt, but if I was going to do something, I would take it out for my sessions, then put it back. Since that’s when I do get him to myself. Ah yes, isn’t grist fun?! Thank you.

Becca,
There’s a thought, I could provide another heart box. I just can’t help worrying about how they would be affected, especially since it was more than likely perfectly innocent. If they struggle the way I do with wanting T to themselves, and have a similar history, it might be very painful. I don’t want to put someone through that.

As for bravery, it took me like two months to bring it up. And I only said something because it wasn’t going away. I think its more an indication of how deeply I trust my T. Thank you for responding.

OK my feelings are that the box is incredibly meaninful to me (it literally took me weeks of searching to find the right heart box because I wanted one appropriate to give to a man, It’s silverwith edge beading and lion’s paw feet. I actually ordered it from someone in London on ebay. And don’t get me started about how much time I spent picking out the stone heart and deciding on the type and color of stone. And I don’t like that someone else felt free to just plop something else down inside that. I’m not sure I care what their intention was, it just feels intrusive and I don’t like having to see it there. I think I may eve be jealous of their freedom to just do what they wanted and NOT get tied up in knots worrying about the person who put it there originally. Not sure what, if anything, I want to do about it, but its how I’m feeling.

Thanks for the feedback, I do like the idea of providing a whole bunch of hearts.


Hi curious,
Thanks for making an exception for me! I really appreicate your honesty about how you feel about the picture (random weird fact: I cannot stand butterflies and all the therapy related sayings around them. Gag me!) I relate to feeling like a selfish jerk, but after hearing everyone’s responses, it seems more like I am just having a normal human reaction. It really does help to know other people would feel this way. Giving myself room for my own feelings has always been a bit of an uphill battle for me. Thanks again.

RM,
I think if my therapist had put it in, he would have told me. The fact that he’s not saying much about it tells me its another client. He also talked as if there was another person and he wouldn’t do that unless there was. But I do agree that the other person wouldn’t know the significance. I can see my T mentioning the poem (he brought it up to me the first time) and talking about how it symbolizes connection to another client, but not speaking of me specifically. I can also understand how someone hearing that might want to put something in there. I mean, I get how much it means to me to see my heart in there (or have my T’s heart in mine, depending on that day’s perspective). I really do think it’s wrong of me to presume ill intent. I think my feelings around that have a lot more to do with the fact that there wasn’t nearly enough care and attention to go around in my family growing up, so I think that my siblings and I could feel like it was a competition and that seeing someone else get cared for could feel threatening. The truth now is that my T is perfectly capable of, and does, care for both myself and the other client. I just want to know he likes me better.

I promise if I do anything or talk about it more, I’ll update. Thank you all again for taking the time to respond, this has really helped me. I was struggling with whether to post about it; I am glad that I decided to.

AG

Holy... cow. That would drive me insane. I'm sure no harm was intended by the client but... I think it sucks your T didn't move it, or other people have connection to your stuff. I get it on a rational level...but emotionally? No. I am insane about my things being touched, or touching other's stuff (I don't even walk on my Ts side of the room when I'm alone or use a pen to write my check without telling her immediately). I wish he moved it... But I see the dilemma (kind of like if the other client has a "bond" with it. Someone asked to hve something of mine from my T's office (I told her it was okay) but if she had not asked and it was just gone I'd flip.

Sorry, I wish I had some insight but all I can offer is validating how you feel I'm glad you brought it up.

(((Cat))) sorry we cross-posted. Thank you, that's it exactly, I get it on a rational level, but emotionally? It feels really wrong. I don't know how reasonable I am being, but part of me wishes he would have said to the other client that he understood what they wanted to express but they needed to find their own vehicle of expression. Damnit, I'm going to have talk more about this. I hate when something so small looms so large. I feel better knowing you feel this way though, thank you!

quote:

OMG AG, if it were me I would battle the urge to hunt down that intruder and send them hate mail!!!

Monte,
LMAO, I was actually fantasizing about leaving a rather nasty note under the object for them to find at their next appointment.

I like that idea! I'll just get another heart box and put theirs in it. My space. MINE!

I will say for my T, he was very encouraging about me bringing it up so I think you're right. Thanks Monte, you made me both smile and feel better.

AG

Maybe to titrate you could look at it as... It's fragile (not a rock) maybe they are learning to feel solid and able to do things on their own.

I still feel like I said above but I asked myself.,, since I've been doing inner kid work... How would I react if I found out a child put it there? And to be honest it would be different to me if it was a kid (I'm thinking of my own precious stuffed animal at my Ts office to compare - I'd love to share with a kid but adults can get their dirty grubby greedy hands off it).Things like that many times come from our "younger" selves just like the betrayal feelings, and the get your own box (SERIoUSLY!!!!!) feelings.

Anyway I dunno... This have me a lot of info about myself. That's all just rationalization... It still hurts and I'd want to put an even bigger green heart in there and put the other one on top of the ceramic one My future gifts would contain no real estate. :|

My other thought, which was in my original post but got edited out somehow (by me), is that maybe this particular client is just simply unaware her own feelings of jealousy and of how her actions affect other people. It could be why she is in therapy in the first place.

Surely it couldn't be from Ts significant other? Like a really jealous S.O.? Who really needs therapy?

Now I am going to look at all the stuff in Ts office with renewed interest. My T before I moved here had lots of stuff I assumed was from clients (1 or 2 from me), but present T has an office with a very specific theme, I assumed he got it all on vacations over the years. Surely all clients would not give theme coordinated gifts?

For what it's worth I can't stand it when my T even mentions her other clients. I don't even like seeing them in the waiting room. To have someone put their object in my heart box would most certainly elicit the same response from me that you are having AG. At the same time I think this is fodder for therapy. Something to look at. What is it about? What meaning does it have to you? This could be an opportunity to explore where these feelings arise from

that's an interesting question, AG. there are two things that jump out in my mind, but having nothing to do with T:

years ago when i was at least going to church, my mother started making hints that she wanted to join a different church than her own, and she was looking at mine! i've lived my entire life under her thumb, and the thought of her joining my parish was enough to make my stomache turn. had she joined, which she never did, i would have bolted in a moment!

the other is: i have been struggling for awhile with coming to grips with quitting drinking. i have gone to a hand-ful of groups, some better than others, and some that i think about, but just can't get my mind there, if you know what i mean. anyway...my sister stopped drinking about 1-1/2 years ago, and T every once in a while would suggest going to meetings with her. now, i consider my sister to be one of my two best friends, but the thought of sharing something like that with her is over the top! if i am to be a part of a group, i want it to be MY group, and not feel over-shadowed by anybody else in my family, because i guess that's always the way i've felt. i don't want to be trumped anymore (never did, actually. but being the littlest, it kind of came with the territory).

so, i TOTALLY understand. maybe you can dig a little and try to figure out where it comes from? did you feel trumped by others? not as important? smaller, weaker, without a voice? it would be interesting to see wnat you come up with. meantime, i don't think you're feelings are silly or insignificant or trite in the least. just try to figure out what they're about.

good to see you posting

Cat,
You're totally right that this would feel different if it were a child. Because I wouldn't expect a child to understand that they might be violating someone else's boundaries. And as I was writing this, I realized that my boundaries being crossed (in this instance since this does not rise to an criminally, ethically or morally wrong act) is MY problem. This mysterious other client had no way of knowing her action would bother me. She was just doing something important to her. There is no need for me to get angry in order to assert myself. I can just let it be known I am not happy about this. I ordered a lovely Victorian rose heart box. I am going to move her keepsake in it and leave her a note that I am not sure what she was trying to do but that the heart box is really important to me and I do not want to share it. It feels like someone is barging in on the middle of a session. This is a bit of a stretch for me but I am trying to recognize that my feelings and desires are important too. So I don't want to try and retaliate or hurt this person, as that was probably not her intention at all, but it is ok to say what I want. Which is for her to get the hell out of my box. Loved the line about future gifts containing no real estate, good advice!

Hi RT,
Good to see you posting and thanks for responding. Thanks for saying its not trite, although I must confess some of this is most definitely childish. I am honestly feeling like a small kid who doesn't want to hear any crap about sharing.

I liked your "grrr" response; nice thought. I actually ordered a Victorian Rose heart box from ebay. i am going to take it to my next session and place her thingamabob in it with a short note explaining that its about me, as long as my T has no objections. I think this is good for me.

I loved that you used the poem in your ceremony. When I gave my T the heart box, I printed the second half of the poem in the card. I left off the first part as it was a bit too romantic for my purposes. Happy you got to use the whole thing.

I very much appreciate the kind words about my blog, but you know how we can always go negative? I'm reading it thinking he probably thinks I'm a suckup. Seriously though, he was obviously very touched when I gave him the box, its part of why its so important to me. And although I have no clue as to where I stand on the client hierarchy, I do know that we share a mutual liking and respect. He's always been very calm and non-defensive when other clients come up even when its been pretty problematic.

quote:

Surely it couldn't be from Ts significant other? Like a really jealous S.O.? Who really needs therapy?

Peanut,
LOL. Probably not. T is pretty careful about keeping his family out of the room, except for a few pictures of his grandkids. Although I have to tell you, it would drive me nuts if my husband was a T and I realized the depth of these relationships. But they have been married for over 36 years, so I don't think she has much to worry about... And no, I have to agree, i don't think clients give theme oriented gifts. My T's office looks like some kind of bizarre flea market.

Turtle,
I definitely agree its good fodder. I think the central issue for me is one that we have examined in the past, which was that there was not enough to go around in my FOO (so much so that I suspect I had a falling out with one sister when my father stopped abusing her and started abusing me. Being abused was seen as a "prize" because you were getting attention. So I struggle with a sense of being threatened when my attachment figure pays attention elsewhere. But its also about my boundaries I think. My father so consistently overran them, leaving me nothing for myself. That gift represents something really important and intimate that happened between me and my T, and I don't want someone intruding there. Which I don't think is completely unhealthy. I am also working on allowing myself to be ok with my feelings no matter what they are. As always, therapy is a good place to start practicing. BTW, I am not fond of seeing other clients either. We once spent a good chunk of a session discussing my upset at hearing the client before me laughing with him. And you have no idea what I went through in couples' counseling. Hmmm, starting to sense a theme here...

CD,
Thanks so much for sharing those, makes me feel much saner. I think I answered your questions when I was responding to Turtle. I'm going to end up discussing this with BN again when I swap things out, so there will be digging. But I'm not expecting any surprises, I think this is just working through my pattern.

Thanks again everyone, this has just been incredibly helpful to me to go through these comments and respond, it has brought a lot of clarity. I so appreciate the response.

Hey AG,

I didn't read all the replies yet so someone may have already said this, but is it possible that the item that is in the box is actually T's item? His own? Not something someone gave him? I don't why that though jumped in my mind when I read this

quote:

But that I didn't want to take it out, because I was afraid that would be really hurtful for the other person. To which my T replied "or they just might put it back."

- I could be totally off, but it was just a thought that came to me. Either way, I feel for you. I don't think it's immature at all and I would have reacted much worse than you in fact

Hoping it gets sorted out.

I guess I would be a combination of...really invaded, like most others have described...and maybe...also on some other level, genuinely, what's the word, gladdened, heartened, that someone else connected and resonated with the way I expressed my sense of care and safety and belonging with my T. Kind of a web of human interconnectedness that would make me feel...less alone in a way?

But, I would probably spend days imagining all the possible scenarios under which this item ending up in "my" gift to T, and what each scenario would mean to me, what it would make me feel.

Luckily, my gifts to do not have "real estate," as it was so aptly put, so short of someone kidnapping the monkey or one of his friends to sew an eyepatch on or painting my little sculpture, there's not much for me to worry about. I guess someone could make something else like I made to go along as a set, and I might freak out about my feeling theirs was better, lol. That's one I'll have to ponder. If someone else made a stuffed animal or a sculpture to go along with mine...wow, I don't even know how I'd feel. It's too complicated.

I am curious to read the feeling go toward the other person who put something in the box rather than to the therapist who did not prevent the box from being used by another client. I think the therapist, and his response that the other person might put it back, would be to be where my hurt, or wrath or disappointment would lie. Not at some other client who probably has no clue nor should he if the therapist did not inform him not to use that particular item.

Anon,
There has definitely been some sense of being glad it resonated, but its being drowned out by my inner toddler. I truly wish I felt more that way; I think part of what is important about this for me is to acknowledge and express my less than noble reactions and wishes. I'll grow up someday.

Stoppers,

Excellent question! I think there are a number of things operating. One is that it's less frightening to get angry at an absent person than the person in front of you, especially a relationship I would not want to risk. But I have expressed anger in the past at my T and its not as scary as it used to be. The second is that his was a sin of omission, so to speak, and I really do understand the difficult position that he was in with another client putting something down. And for all I know, he feels its important for either or both of us to work through this. Lastly, I have a long, trusting relationship with him, and although I do know he can screw up, I very much trust his motivations, so I am not as likely to read sinister intent into his actions. I'm sure I'll be talking to him.

I really do think the bottom line is that I do not have to get angry, or prove the other person was wrong, or even understand them. This is just my boundary, around something that I gave my therapist and it needs to be ok with me to just say "no, I am not sharing that."

AG

I just had an odd thought/idea: What if you removed the other item and took your box home for a week or two? This would force the other item to find a new home, all by itself, on the table. And it might spark a question from the other client to your T....at which point, they would have to discuss what happened to that nice little heart box... Even though your T wouldn't reveal anything specific about you or your feelings, I think that discussion would give the other client a chance to think about how meaningful the box is to the person who put it there, so that when you bring the box back, he/she might refrain from "intruding" on it?

Just a thought (is it a passive-aggressive one?)

I do think it is okay to be possessive of the item and to want the therapist to treat it as special from you too.

Rabbit - the problem I see is how was the other person supposed to know the box was from another client or that the other client would care or that they were intruding upon something if the therapist did not tell them? I think any focus on the other client is just off base here.

I see your point, stoppers. I didn't see it so much as focusing on the other client as focusing on protecting one's own boundaries--i.e., you can only protect your own boundaries, and one way to do that is to remove yourself (the box) from the situation for a while.

Don't know if that makes sense, but the thought probably just reflects my own self-protective tendencies. I'd rather withdraw for a while than assert myself or engage in any battle over "real estate" And it's not always the most effective approach.

Thanks
RabbitEars

Dear "AG"
I do understand you, I think you have got great answers from people here; I just wanted to send you alll hugs . I did also give my T a gift its some what a funny gift and its on his table, I sometimes wonder when he sees the gift, does he then remember me or what, he does not want to accept gifts, but because I do not pay him I told him I would like sometimes at Christmas and his birthday to give him little gift .

Hi all,
Sorry I haven't been back to respond (and Kmay, I am really sorry to have overlooked your response in my previous replies, I had copied the thread into another program to work on responding, went to reply and realized there were more responses and added those to the file, but missed yours. Totally unintentional.) I am starting to deal with food issues in therapy and have stop overeating and a LOT of anxiety is getting triggered around this. I just wrote a long, messy email to my T (TN I PROMISE if I do not hear back in a timely manner I will call, cross my heart. ). So I just feel too activated and reactive to focus on responding right now. I'll be back as soon as I m up for it. Thanks to everyone, I have read all the responses and truly appreciate the input. I think I can safely say I hit a nerve. Gosh, isn't therapy fun?

AG

I think that people really like you AG. I think that's partly why you got so many responses.

Hi AG,

I know you're not replying to this thread right now but I wanted to throw in my $.02. When I first read this I had the same visceral reaction you did. I thought it was hurtful. I'm unclear how it is that another patient could drop something in your box. I would think if they gave your T a gift it would be a more formal exchange, rather than, I am just going to put this ceramic item in an existing box.

Anyway, that said, if it were me, I would be upset with my T because (the way I read you intended the gift to mean) the gift was the whole box--the whole box with the heart inside is a representation of your relationship. It is a symbolic container representing the therapy relationship you and he have that is unique and meaningful. This is sort of a violation of that container -- like a previous poster said (I don't know who) of someone barging in on your session, but then your T let them stay and hang out and air their grievances for a bit before leaving, violating your sacred space. (My old T used to forget to turn off the ringer on his phone and it drove me crazy. I thought it was a bit intrusive and it bothered me that my T didn't think to turn it off -- how's THAT for sensitive! ).

Now, to be clear, I am definitely in the despairing depths of my inner child work, so I may be a viewing this from a child's point of view but I too would be upset if this happened to me and I would feel as if my T was not seeing how important this was to me. That is what would upset me--that HE didn't understand, right away, that I wouldn't want anyone to put anything in MY box to HIM--that it had this wholistic or sacred meaning to me and, I would have thought, for him too. It would feel like he is not seeing the significance of the how the box represented our relationship which would cause me to not feel truly seen.

Those are my thoughts.

Take care,

(((DBS)))
You nailed exactly a big part of what arose as I started to dig into my feelings around this. I emailed BN a few days ago, explaining all of my complex and wide-ranging feelings around this, but did tell him that it felt like a violation of a sacred space and I am hurt he did not protect that. I am seeing him tomorrow afternoon and realized in speaking to a friend that I am scared because it feels like I may lose a very precious, intimate, cherished memory because its going to turn out that it didn't really mean much to my T. 'but I recognize that my fear has a lot more to do with the relational pattern with my father than it does with the reality of my relationship with BN. I will post an update after I see him. Thank you so much for writing, it really helped to have someone understand and articulate this. xx AG

Hi AG,

I'm glad what I wrote made sense to you. Good luck with your appointment!!

DBS

Hi All,
I had a truly brutal session today and a lot of anger at both my T and my parents came up. I am so raw that I need to process for a bit before I can really talk about it I think.

Bottom line, I took it out of my heart box (by the way it was a ceramic piece in the shape of a kidney-beah(ish) with what looked like stylized wheat stalks carved into it with a face above where the sun would be. There was a hole lower down with a bead with a matching face on it. I still don't get it) and left it on the table next to it. Bottom line from T, anything on the table is open game. Not happy about that and know we'll need to talk more.

I did get pretty angry at him (ummm at one point I literally said "f*&^ you." He told me later I sounded like I meant it and weirdly enough meant that as a good thing.) We talked about how unprotected I felt and that led to a discussion of and in the moment expression of the rage I feel for my parents. Gosh, that was fun!

Right now, it feels like I have reached a breaking point and I'm not sure I can keep doing this. All of the people I have urged to keep going, now is your chance for payback. It's going to be four weeks until my next session which is good because right now I never want to see him again. Forgot how intense the pain could get.

I'll try to come back with something more coherent when I've processed more.

AG

Thank you so much for understanding Monte. I haven't felt this ripped open in a long time and the pain is bad, So I very much appreciate you taking the time. It's amazing how sometimes knowing the truth doesn't help much. I get why your T did what he did, but wow, yeah, that would be hard.

AG

(((AG)))

I didn't know what to expect from your T but I'm not sure it was that. Who put it on the table in the first place? Did he put the ceramic piece back in? It makes sense that if he allowed someone to put the piece in, he would allow someone (you) to take it out - if the table is fair game.

It reminds me, though, of what I tell my kids if friends want to play with a special toy that they don't want anyone to play with. I make them put it away unless they will share. I don't think that we have to share everything.

Did he validate at all your anger towards him in terms of not safeguarding something that was sacred to you?

is it out of scope to ask that he put it where it is not fair play?

CD,
He did tell me that if I wanted to give him a gift and ask him to keep it out of sight, then h would respect that but wouldn't like it (I forget his exact words, but it didn't come across judgmental, rather that he didn't think it was the best way to handle it). He went on to say that I gave it to him as a gift and he thinks it is really good that everyone's gifts are on display so people can see and explore them and interact so if a gift was out on his table he wasn't going to stop anyone from interacting with it. He's very honest with me and sometimes it hurts. This was one of those times (which he openly acknowledged.) But what I heard (and told him it felt like) wss "tough shit, deal with it." So yes, I could ask him to take it off the table but 1) it was a gift and I feel churlish telling him where to put it 2) I like seeing it there. I am really hoping the other client takes the hint and does not put it back in.

Thank you both for responding, sorry if I am not making sense or being completely clear, I am so activated that its tough right now. There are all these bits and pieces of the session floating around but I am struggling to remember it in order and as a coherent whole.

AG

i don't even mean out of sight, but maybe somewhere where it can be seen but not easily hampered/violated with? just a thought.

(((AG))) Sorry, that would have been extremely painful for me, and shut me down. You are so brave to express your pain and anger directly to your T like that. Are you still considering leaving another box and the note? Did you talk to your T about that at all and whether that would be OK with him? It would be really hard for me to continue seeing it in there not knowing what it meant to the other person, why it was put in there, how much of the context of the object they understood when they did it.

So, if all the objects on the table are fair game for interaction...would your T not intervene if someone wanted to make a permanent change to the object? What if the client came back and wanted to glue his/her item in there, so it couldn't be removed, or else mark it in some other way? I mean, surely he has some sort of boundaries about what he will allow others to do with his gifts? I'm not sure I really understand his line of thinking about it. I understand the part about it being his now and him having a right to determine where it is and what happens to it...but if someone were regularly interacting with the things I'd made for my T, making changes to them in a way, I guess I'd feel like I'd want to understand their doing that, and know they understood at least basically what it meant to me at the same time...

I kind of imagine my T will eventually give my gifts away, since they are hand-made stuffed animals and a little sculpture...maybe they'll stay in the office after he retires. It feels really sad to imagine them passed along, but also, kind of like those objects will have a whole life of their own going forward, birthed from the connection I've formed with my T. So many mixed feelings there...

I'm sorry your T is on a break now. I hope you are able take advantage of his invitation to reach out when you need it. I know it has to be hard, feeling hurt and unprotected right now, even if that's not his intention.

((AG))

I just went through something similar with my T. When we clear away the childhood projections, we are left with real information about our T's. In your case, you learned how he feels about gifts.

In my case, my T chose not to call me back until the next day (when he's always called me back within an hour when I ask for a return call) right in the midst of a conflict between the two of us. When I cleared away all of my projections, what was left was the fact that something else was more important to him that night than getting back to me. That fact is inescapable.

The question then became, for me, how can he care about me if something else was more important at the time? Are the two necessarily incompatible? In your case, can you still feel like the time and space you have with your T is sacred? And/or do you still feel like he protects you when you need him to? I'm sure there are many other questions swirling around in your mind. To be continued.