Good for you Mayo!! You took a huge risk and it worked out. That is great.

My T and I frequently check in on our relationship. Obviously more so with ruptures, but even when things are going well we discuss the relationship and how we are working together.

Hi Mayo,

Congratulations on your leap of boldness!! That is something to celebrate. And I loved your T's response of "I like bold". I'm so glad you were able to work it out!

Honesty about the therapeutic relationship is a really timely topic for me because I'm in the middle of having been what I think is WAY TOO honest with our couples T. It also came up once so far with my primary T. It worked out great with primary T...I've got my fingers crossed that it will work out as well with couples T.

With my primary T, she is actually the one who brought up the issue. Over the course of several sessions, I started arriving between five and ten minutes after the hour. She finally brought it up, and asked why that was happening...and then asked if maybe I did not want to be there? She did not ask that as if she was angry, only concerned...but it hit me really hard. At first I was shocked that she'd even suggest that...I took it somewhat personally and cried some...but as I thought about it over the next couple of days, I realized that I had some weird assumption about the first ten minutes being kind of "open", based on the fact that before her, I'd always been the one waiting for my T, and they always made me wait the first five to ten minutes. Her point was that she was ready at the top of the hour, so why wasn't I? She said she looks forward to our sessions. I was FLOORED when I realized what she was saying...and felt awful that I'd been making HER wait, for crying out loud. So it ended up being a really good thing. And I haven't been late since. I was even early last time (and saw her twice last week).

Something also recently came up in our couples therapy that needed to be talked about. I brought it up in the Spouses and Therapy thread, that he has ended the last three sessions early...and my fear and anger has been building each time. I was wisely advised to bring it up with him this Thursday. Tuesday night I tried to put my thoughts down on paper so I could achieve some level of coherence in the session...but it turned into five pages. Wednesday morning I totally chickened out and emailed the clinic to cancel the appointment. I believed 100% that our couples T would be relieved at that, that he had been hoping we would just go away, and would hope that we would cancel the rest of our sessions too.

So I was more than a little surprised when he responded within the hour with "Got your email. Is everything OK?" And then for a little while...this sounds strange...I couldn't stop smiling. His responding at all was so unexpected, that I was willing to just let everything go...and not talk about it at all. But that wasn't right either, it still needed to be talked about. As the day went on I convinced myself he didn't really want an answer...he was just doing the polite thing and would be relieved that I didn't respond.

Then that afternoon, my husband called to tell me the clinic had called and asked to talk to him to find out why we had cancelled, and possibly set up a different time. So then I felt like I should explain. I emailed him back and explained why I had cancelled the appointment. It was a very shortened version of the five-page letter, but still very honest about how I felt about his ending sessions early. I told him about the five-page letter, that I'd like for him to read it and would pay him for the time because I wanted to know what he thought. I also said, if he doesn't want to be our therapist anymore, to please be honest about it. And I was sure he would admit that.

Within ten minutes, he responded with an apology for not being sensitive to what we needed in the therapy and the assurance that we would go at our pace and not cut the therapy short. He said he enjoyed us coming in and that we were welcome and not a burden. He also said he would show us the markers he'd been seeing and that he'd been basing his actions on what the research says about those markers and what they mean...and that he'd show us on paper exactly what that says, so we could be sure that that was why he'd started ending early. He said he'd welcome reading my letter (at no cost ) and appreciated all the time and energy I'd put into it. Oh, and he said he'd see us tomorrow and that he hoped we would keep the appointment.

So, I guess he showed ME.

I ended up actually sending the letter late last night. Today I am regretting it. There was a LOT in there to get defensive about, if he wanted to. Also there was a TON of stuff on all the questions I've been wanting to ask about attachment. It really was a deluge of Too Much Information all at once. If he wasn't sick of me before, he probably is now after reading that letter. We ended up not going to the appointment after all. And emailed saying I won't be surprised if he changes his mind after reading the letter, sorry it's so overly analytical, and so on. I SO hope he doesn't take it personally. I hope he looks at it and says, let's look at why you're such a spaz. He emailed this evening with "See u soon " so I just answered back with "OK ".

So, honesty is really scary. It doesn't always work out the way I'd like...and even when it does, like the example above, I don't trust it. But at a certain point honesty becomes unavoidable because NOT saying anything eventually blocks the way forward.

Good luck, Mayo...

SG

Wow, SG - that's a real rollercoaster with the going/not going thing... I'm so glad you were able to share the letter and get your needs out there.

I'm struggling with this question of honesty at the moment. I have had about 8 sessions with my 'new' T and I'm really ambivalent about whether we can work together. But ambivalence is not new for me. One of the things that bothers me is that she has not addressed the relationship between us in any of our work so far. I have been thinking about ending with her, but I may try talking about things from this angle first. I just don't know what to say. My thoughts are all supercritical. But I'm like that about almost anyone in any kind of authority position, I think. And I wonder if I've underestimated the amount of time it takes for my situation to be understood in any depth. Certainly I would like to 'clear the air'. I feel like it's probably not productive to put a T 'on notice', as such, but I'm looking for a way to acknowledge that we may not be suited to each other.

J

Hi Mayo

I'm glad you got to do some air clearing with your T and that he was receptive to it. Very bold!

quote:

How many of you are totally honest with your T?

I think I'd like to be. A few times I tried a method called Radical Honesty with my T, where I just said what came to mind without filter. But it only lasted a few minutes and we've not done it in months.

Now, as I have intense attachment to her, I refrain from saying anything that might make her see me in a negative light. I can't get beyond it. And I fear she could not handle hearing my darkest most troubling honest thoughts with the grace and empathy I would need her to have.

quote:

Do you do housecleaning about the therapy sessions, or do you take each week as it comes?

Each day in my life can be like a reset button for me because I have memory issues. I realize that there is a lot of residual stuff floating about from previous sessions, but I can't remember it well enough so I just take each week as is.

quote:

What do you do if things build up? Do you get stuff out on a regular basis or do you hold it in until quitting therapy is a thought, because "it" does not seem to be working any longer.

Things have been building up lately for me. And as a result I have been worried that I need to consider quitting. I want to try to talk things through but I feel like my T brings too much of herself into the session through her mood and tone of voice.

quote:

Do you plan your sessions? Or do you just play it by ear?

I try to write down notes throughout the week if it's important to me to discuss. Playing it by ear usually ends up in silent and unproductive session for me.

I wish I could clear the air and know that everything will be okay, but I don't know if it will.

Mayo,

My T asked me to write about how therapy is going for me and it led to some discussion and a few changes. Asserting myself is difficult for me and talking about that exercise helped me feel a bit stronger so I hope to try doing it more often. A little bit at a time is my goal. I have noticed that some changes are uncomfortable so I want to take it slowly. I really like the encouragement you received from your T when he replied with "I like bold."

deeplyrooted

Mayo

I am learning that there is a difference between honesty and active honesty so to speak. I think I have always been honest with my T, if I don't want to tell her something I tell her that I can't and the reason if I can. She seems to accept that. But sometimes I don't tell her everything when I reply, usually because the reply is difficult in some way. And usually I want to tell her and sit doing battle with myself. So now, mainly as a result of the bravery I have witnessed here, and the fact that I realise how much I trust my T with anything, I make a pact with myself sometimes to be honest and brave before I go in ...and when I waver 'should I say it, or shouldn't I?' I remember that and just say it. It always seems beneficial too in the long run BUT it's not easy.

SG thanks for your post, I was with you in all those ups and downs as I read I am glad your T was so intuitive and responded with sensitivity. I hope your next meeting is easier.

starfish

Sorry for the ups and downs...I did not mean to make anyone sick...

SG,

Reading that was wonderful! Thank you for sharing and I am so glad that it worked out the way it did for you after taking such a huge risk.

Funny, I responded to this thread yesterday, but I thought I would add something from today. There was a point in my session today (and this happens often) where I knew exactly what I wanted to say, but I thought for a moment and what I needed to say would make me feel so vulnerable that I wasn't sure. Then I thought to myself that I'm never going to get where I want to go with my healing if I can't even tell my T something about how I'm feeling or felt. So, I took a deep breath and told her and you know what? She didn't react badly. In fact, she was very moved by what I said (based on the way she looked and the sound she made when I said it). It ended up being a good thing that I shared what I was thinking.

Hi Mayo good to see you posting again. These are interesting questions you’ve asked (and good for you for being bold - it’s great when you take a risk and it turns out well.)

I’ve only been seeing my new T a short while so haven’t really got enough experience with him to be clear about the process yet, but so far the therapy has actually revolved primarily around the relationship itself. It’s the focus of the therapy rather than a once-in-a-while air clearing thing. And that suits me just fine - it means that anything and everything going on between T and me gets picked up on in the moment, or if it doesn’t then I’m able and feel free enough to bring it up the next session - and that is so liberating. I’ve spent so many hours with different Ts over the years where niggles and misunderstandings and confusion just fester away because the focus of the therapy has rarely been what’s happening between T and me, and I’ve ended up not getting very far at all.

As for planning sessions or playing them by ear - I guess I used to always have an agenda because otherwise it seemed to me therapy was going round in pointless circles. Now it really is playing it by ear, because what nearly always comes up is what’s happening right there in the moment and that’s not something I can anticipate or plan for in advance. And the fact that T is also focused on what’s happening in that moment makes it so much easier for me to be ‘bold’ instead of going away and stewing over it. Lol but even this early in the piece I’ve already seriously considered quitting. I think it must be an occupational hazard of therapy or something.

Mind you I’m only a few sessions in with this T so everything I’ve said could turn out to be rubbish. But I hope not.

Good post Mayo.

Hey Forlorn - Radical Honesty sounds like what we all ought to be trying to do in therapy anyway How come you only managed a few moments of it? Was it your T wasn’t up for it, or did you just get too frightened?

LL

p.s. SG neat emoticons - are they new on here? And good for you being upfront with the couples T - hope you manage to make it to the next appointment

Jones - I'm sorry to hear that your new T isn't working out as well as you'd hoped, I remember how excited we all were for you, and how hopeful you were, too. [Side question: Did the artistic part not work out, either?] When you say she has not addressed your relationship...is there something specific that's been getting in the way, something said/not said or done/not done that's triggered you in some way?

Maybe that last part is "it"...maybe the two of you would benefit from talking about why you believe you are not suited to each other. I think the clue is that you say bringing it up is probably not "productive"...that's how I feel now about all my disclosures the other day. Like why couldn't I just have kept my mouth shut and gotten through the therapy without spewing all over the place, and why did I have to go and probably sabotage another therapeutic relationship. Maybe it feels that way because those are the moments that either make or break the relationship, the testing points where we're either going to take it to the next level, or go our separate ways. And to go to the next level, we BOTH have to be up to the challenge. I DO wish I was better at predicting where the testing points are going to be, though...the little buggers have a way of sneaking up in unexpected ways. Personally I am not crazy about the messiness and unpredictability of therapy. If it would just go the way I think it should, everything would be great. Yeah, right.

Anyway...Jones, I hope you are able to find a way to get the conversation started. Good luck! Keep us posted.

Hugs,
SG

LL,

Wow, what you and your T are doing "in the moment" sounds JUST like what my primary T does. Isn't it a relief to have that freedom? So planning is impossible and unnecessary and the interesting thing is seeing what comes up. More and more lately I've had some surprises...nothing earth-shattering, but not at all what I expected, either.

I hope you stick with it and don't quit. LOL I think you are right about quitting being an occupational hazard of therapy. I quit a LOT in my head.

Glad you liked the emoticons. They are not on this site, though. I found a website that has all kinds of fun ones, where each one has a little bit different URL depending on where you are posting it. One of the URL codes is for forums, so I just copy and paste the code directly into the message box. Here is a link to the website:

Free Smileys



SG

mayo, good question. me? no, don't know that i am even honest with myself...i don't know what is there, all i really know are my defenses and my 'performance of a sane individual'. i am too afraid to peek in, for fear of seeing nothing. i have told them that.

i would always fear rejection in honesty, and sadly, it comes true. this dbt gal said she could handle me...that's what t3 said, and i still have the footprint on my forehead.

so, honesty? honestly, NOT. not really too intentional to not be honest, i think i try. i am just so used to dodging the bullet, the teflon coating that is very hard to pin down.

i would love someone to get me there, to bare bones. but, with this need to please others, and all my other walls, i don't really know if there is anything there!!??

how do you know when you are down to the core?

great topic, jill

quote:

My T and I frequently check in on our relationship

Hi STRM, That is a great idea! I think that is what my T tries to do, but I always took it as if he just throws out some random thing- and I usually ignore his seemingly random stuff, I guess he is searching. I must pay closer attention to this. usally when he does this- I think he is losing it, or wonder "now where did that come from?" then I ignore it.
"NOT saying anything eventually blocks the way forward." _BY SG
That is amazingly true. This is precisely why I took the risk.

"I'm struggling with this question of honesty at the moment."
Jones- what a huge decision to make, that is a tough one, I wish I couldsay something to help, but me being such a dam people pleaser, ( and a coward)I would just write a letter of goodbye. I am not suggesting that though. The first time I fired mark, I wrote him a 10 page letter- saying goodbye among other things, and found the letter writing to be the most helpful for me. I have been doing that ever since. I wish you the best!
Forlorn- Love the idea of radical honesty, but I would want my T to be radically honest with me too... I think... ok- maybe not. I will read your link as soon as I finish my post.
If I don't write stuff down, I spend too much time with surface chit chat.

"write about how therapy is going for me" Thanks for that, Deeply rooted, - I just might do just that

"But sometimes I don't tell her everything when I reply, usually because the reply is difficult in some way. And usually I want to tell her and sit doing battle with myself." Hey starfish- I can relate to this. My T says that I don't have to tell him everything, so sometimes I go with that.

Thanks for the welcome back, LL.
"It’s the focus of the therapy rather than a once-in-a-while air clearing thing" - and that is so liberating"
That sounds wonderful to me. If I had the guts, I would suggest that to him- I am sure he would go for it- but I am short on those kind of guts. An occasional bold- maybe but us being the focus, whew!
I hope this continues to work for you, LL!

Hi Jill- interesting question- about the core.
"but, with this need to please others, and all my other walls, i don't really know if there is anything there!!??

how do you know when you are down to the core?"

Of course there is stuff there- tearing down the walls and allowing yourself to be vunerable is the hardest thing I have ever done. Not doing this impedes my honesty, then I feel like I am wasting my money. I told Mark to push me. to make me do the work because I would feel right at home sitting and chit- chating with him (in fact I did that- another thing that led to this post)
He said- Know thyself- that is the core. I responded with which self? And he laughed. (I think it was a nervous laugh, though)

Thanks all- this was good, and it helped me to see that without the honesty, I am just spinning my wheels, and he is just telling me what he thinks I want to hear. If I do not share my fears and beliefs, my guts- honestly,then he can't help me.

don't get me wrong, i want to go there too, but i haven't been authentic...ever...that got so squashed as a child, so shut down, that i don't know if there is anything there, anyone home. it is a really weird feeling, i guess that self is still quite numb. i want to be pushed, too, to have someone else drive, but, i don't know...the patience and the funds are wearing out. and i just wonder if this is as good as it will get. who ever gets done in the 6-12 sessions you hear some recommended. i really can't believe i am still at it.

someone said to talk about what is hard to talk about, your biggest fear, i don't know, i would appreciate some probing questions, as i do feel like i chit chat a bit too much. one thing i really DON'T like, and that is stories they tell, especially when you have heard them before. why do i get these people who like to hear themself talk?

where is my core??

friends, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY TIPS ON GETTING TO THE CORE PROBLEM?? i think mine is low/no self esteem...and i don't know what the cure is...i like what ag's guy told her that 'you have always deserved to feel beautiful(inside)' italics are mine, but that is where i want to feel beautiful...i look pretty good for my age, but, inside??? oh, i want to feel beautiful.

i think t1 saw it. i miss him. (can't believe i just said that, but i do).

he has nothing else for me....

i ramble, but honesty?? if i could find it i'd lay it on the table...i mean my core is my honesty.

this may lead to another post topic...hmmm...jill

I hve always thought I was very honest in therapy - that I tell things that most poeple would not admit, like how attachhed I feel for her and how I miss her so much in between etc and then recently we have or I have hit a real deep shame issue and I have sepnt about two months ttrying to talk to her and aout it an dnot managing it and making myself slightly crazy.
I actually think she would be very understanding and reassuring - it is just my shame that is holding me back and how I am full of horrible feelings about it and I need such gentle listening about it and we are in the middle of tangled disagreeing at the moment.

I do not plan - I hope to talk about an issue but often teh sessions just flies off in some direction in responce to something either of us have sadi (if I am making spelling mistkes it is becasue the sun is trearming in and I can't see my screen and so I am typing blind here.)

I Do find myself thinking " I shall do a and B and C next session but it does not happen and sometimes she intervenes.

As an abuse survivor I HATE her having the power and am constantly these days trying to wrestle it back,

I tell you one thing guys, if you are having a hard time missing your T - just annoy them so much that they cry and you then don't want to see them AT ALL _it works wonders for the pain of the gap between sessions

lol




I also find my head thinking things like "I shall go in and I shall ask her to hold me and then I shall sit curled up under her arm and I shall give her my laptop and ask her to read my blog from where she stopped reading it. "

She is likely at the moment to say no to that.



So I do have thoughts, not quite planning, in my head and they change each day until the session comes around and then we see what comes up

I also find it difficult cos my'little me' is ruling the sessions and she is so angry and hurting at the moment and my adult self is frustrated as you cannot reason with that partr of me. but that part of me surely trusts my T enough to strop. ( I do't have DID bey the way - just lots of different emotional age levels clashing)

I hav always thought that it is important that you be honest with your T but when you are miscommunicating- it can backfire. I asked to swop caridigans. ( she gave me her cardigan when she went away and I like the smell of her washing powder and my littlest me buries her face in it and feels soothed, - well DID bury her face in it and feel soothed but she does not anymore ) Anyway, this caridgan does not smell of her washing powder anymore so I asked to swop it. "can I swop cardigans?"
But my T ignoredt this writeen request, dropped off specially at the surgery where I see her , two days before so that she could bring a nother cardigan to the next session.

She did not. And I did not dare ask again.

Later a friend said 'If I read 'swop cardigans' I woudl think you wanted to swop your cardigan with mine - an' and I was HORRIFED - how WEIRD does mty T think I am !!!!!

So being honest is scary cos what if they often mishear you????

It is so hard at the moment in T - really really hard, I am having to use my first T to help me get through the sessions with my present T !!!!

quote:

May the Peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Philippians 4:

Jill- I just lost a very detailed reply to your post- hate when that happens, but as an attempt to cool off- I picked up a book I had been reading. It is called BOUNDARIES by Dr. Henry Cloud & Dr. John Townsend (pretty amazing- although I just started it) Here is what I just read- see if it fits-"This is a boundary problem called avoidance: saying no to the good. It is the inability to ask for help, to recognize one's own needs, to let others in. Avoidants(don't like the way the author clumps people into labels here- but that is just me)withdraw when they are in need:; they do not ask for the support of others. ... at the heart of the struggle is a confusion of boundries as walls. Boundries are supposed to be able to breathe, to be like fences with a gate that can let the good in and the bad out. ...freedom to enjoy safe relationships and to avoid destructive ones...
'Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me" (Rev. 3:20)' For people with avoidance issues (the auther calls us avoidants- again the clumping label),"opening up to both God and people is almost impossible. (I can see myself in this- but much less so than when I first started therapy. Great book so far if I can get past the clumping labels.
Hang in there!
Mayo

quote:

it is just my shame that is holding me back

Hello Sheychen

Don't know if we have met, but welcome to the boards.
I love my T (now more in a T sort of way- and in a pretty cool dude sort of way, and less in an obsessive sort of way- thank you God!)so I would never want to make him cry.

Yes shame creeps in- attached to a memory and that throws me for a loop too. I am sorry for your pain- I know it.

quote:

I HATE her having the power

My T and I talked about this once. I asked him - how do you gently hold someones heart when you have the power in the relationship, because most times- he gently holds my heart, and I needed to do that with someone else. Our discussion about the power was pretty amazing- a good topic for another post.
My best regards Sheychen.

Mayo

SG- I forgot to mention- I love the little- what did you call them? emoticons??? so very cool

Hi SG -

Sorry it's taken me so long to come back to this, and sorry to jump in again everyone else - I know the conversation has moved on a bit.

quote:

Jones - I'm sorry to hear that your new T isn't working out as well as you'd hoped, I remember how excited we all were for you, and how hopeful you were, too. [Side question: Did the artistic part not work out, either?] When you say she has not addressed your relationship...is there something specific that's been getting in the way, something said/not said or done/not done that's triggered you in some way?

It's a whole bunch of stuff, and I'm really undecided. I'm reluctant to go into too much detail because I'm worried about identifying myself. She's not suggested art work with me for ages, and often her art table is not out. We've just been talking, and I don't know what style... just kind of general reflective reasoning ("what does he need? what do you need?"). Rarely does she offer me something I haven't thought of myself, and fairly regularly she says stuff that just doesn't sit right with me.

quote:

Maybe that last part is "it"...maybe the two of you would benefit from talking about why you believe you are not suited to each other. I think the clue is that you say bringing it up is probably not "productive"...that's how I feel now about all my disclosures the other day. Like why couldn't I just have kept my mouth shut and gotten through the therapy without spewing all over the place, and why did I have to go and probably sabotage another therapeutic relationship.

I think you're right that I need to address this head on. We're now at a point where she wants to start getting into my childhood/history etc, and I don't feel confident about going there. She's good hearted, she's probably quite wise in certain ways, but she just doesn't articulate things in a way I can relate to. I'm scared that if I DO address this head-on, it will come out as an attempt to repair the relationship, and actually I don't want to, I just want to find a way out. She actually made quite a bad boundary error in our last couples session, and apologised for it in my last individual session. I had been irritated about it for other reasons, but hadn't even thought about the boundary issue (she violated my confidentiality). She brought it up, apologised, I accepted the apology and felt fine about it - but that is the kind of thing that just leaches my confidence.

But I don't know what I can say that will explain my desire to stop and see someone else. For practical reasons I need to stay in the same practice. How do I say "I don't think we are a good match because don't have faith in your skills, and I'd like to stop seeing you and see someone else"?

I know she will do what most therapists would do, and question whether I'm just avoiding the deeper work she has proposed. Am I? I'm pretty sure I'm not. How to explain that without laying blame I don't know.