i am just curious, how long does one need to be in counseling to 'heal'...and i know that is a loaded question, with no facts to build on, and in a way, they are irrelevant.

seems like forever. i was in nine months, and am very functional, but addicted to this website, addicted to 'thinking' and figuring out...escaping.

i have a 'need' to go back to T#1 TOMORROW, as i am without support right now. i am bleeding out again!! but i know he doesn't have the tools with that stupid cognitive behavior stuff he sells. then i feel like i just want to go spend a hundred dollars to tell him how disappointed i am in what he could and couldn't offer me...NO EMOTIONAL HEALING!! isn't that what they are there for!! he jsut illuminated the gaping cause of my problems, which was huge, but i am just standing there at the abyss, and he has NO TOOLS FOR HEALING!! nothing but a flat expression that is depressingly like the unmoved expressions i got from my parents...

i know i am venting, and no one has to read this, but i am DYING HERE!! and i'll be danged if i know what to do with this. how the heck do you function when you are dying inside, and mad as hell that your first therapist, who you poured every nuance of your personality to, couldn't fix stuff.

sorry, i'll be ok, glad no one knows me here. i'll have to change my name if i come back, but then maybe y'all accept me.

how nuts am i that i am looking into internet forums for a friend that i can be honest with, and the truth is, i have many, i just hate to drain them. gotta be nice, y'no, so people will like you!

dang, i want to move to montana.

i am really dying inside, i present 'well', but are y'all ever just dying inside, but the outside looks so fine that no one knows.

i guess it doesn't help that my abusive sister just called, hence, the downward spiral. every one is mad at me in my childhood family, and i have just got to get over that fact, that i am trying to live in reality of the abusive and neglectful past, and they are in fantasy land of a normal past. ever have to get over that?? i still wish they would all roll down a very tall hill, and, like humpty dumpty, have a big fall....my psychiatrist says i am stuck at four years old....how 'bout that!!

ah, better, thanks.

Hi Jill,

Please read about client Centered Therapy and find a good therapist that practices it. It is about using unconditional love. My T loves me, I am sure of it. I like that he love me like this, but I wouldn't mind if he sort of loved me in a different way too, but that is my issue.
Happy hunting. check out this site to avoid a "wonkey therapist" I think that is what Susan- (the author of this site) calls it.

i will, monte. i think i need a female therapist though. gender shouldn't matter, and i always thought women (i am one) were a bit catty and competitive...and had opted for male. but all this attachment stuff i am reading about, i just don't want to deal with that in a male/female way. i just don't think i could.

i never thought of T#1 in a sexual way, i think i was too reeling from what i was discovering about my past to think of him as anything but a god-like source of truth and reality checks, but i think he did, and i know that may sound egotistical and wrong, but i had too many weird things he said out of context, and now that i look back, things add up a bit better. he seemed to enjoy me, and my stuff a bit too much, then it all changed, and he went dead-pan. i really hate him, and yet, i need him right now. and i don't want to need anyone, especially him because i am so mad at him for not being wiser and more able in his therapy to heal that inner child. kinda like my mom. i just BLASTED NEED HEALING, and surely he could help, surely my parents could help me, surely someone can help!!

i am sinking my teeth into another therapist tomorrow, agh...off to take a clonozipin.

Hi Jill, nice to meet you. I just wanted to pipe in and say that I chose a female therapist for exactly the same reasons you mentioned, and so far I am not sorry for that choice. However, I know some here on this board have had both male and female Ts and feel there are vital things they have learned from both genders.

I also want to add in my own immature way that I for one am dedicated to getting my T to love me. I haven't given up yet!

isn't that a wrong goal?? i am asking, because i don't know. i tried to separate myself from acknowledging him as a person after awhile, as i felt so socially uncomfortable with the whole one sidedness of therapy at first. then things got so deep on my end, that he was a life preserver of sorts. now i hate him.

glad to see you are doing well with a female, i am contacting several today,

quote:

isn't that a wrong goal??

Hmmm, well I am sure some people think so. I am not willing to concede that viewpoint is correct, however. I suppose it largely depends on one's definition of love and expectations from it. For example, just because a T loves a client doesn't mean he will cross all boundaries. Actually, if a T truly loves a client, he will strive not do anything boundary-wise to harm that client, even if it is personally difficult. Neither do I believe the answer is for a T to safely remain cool, aloof, and emotionally detached -- at least not for folks with attachment-based issues. A good T must be strong enough to love but with self-discipline. Personally, I don't think anything short of that will heal me.

madhatter, i think you are right, true love, in the respectful way, sees to the client's needs first, not their own. so, logically, you are right. i guess i am throwing objections out there in a self protective / self reliant way ((as is my nature)) to just PROVE MY THEORY THAT I DON'T NEED LOVE.

"i wonder where that came from, mother...see, i don't need your (non-existant!) love anyway!!"

i'm back to the four year old mode AGAIN!! and i didn't even recognize it, til you brought it up...man, i have really got a head-full of therapy needs....i am a four year old....two psychiatrists have told me that...actually one said four, the other said five....

man, how this transference resurrects itself in EVERY FORM AND FASHION CONTINUALLY IN ALL PHASES OF MY LIFE!!

un-blasted-believable!

"i wonder where that came from, mother...see, i don't need your (non-existant!) love anyway!!"

Hi Jill,
I can relate to what you are saying. I think I needed the love anyway, but somewhere in time it wasn't there. I suffer and obssess after each session with my T, who is female. I think I want some kind of aknowledgement from her of acceptance, care, support, love, etc. but it doesn't come. To me it's obvious that's what I look for from most people I bump into in life. When you think about it, why do I put that responsibility on them. Others don't owe that to me. I suppose I should be able to comfort myself, but I can't. If my T did give me what I was looking for, I would "fall into her" and would want to be taken care of. That's what I have done in the past. I don't know about you, but sometimes I feel like I am thrashing around like a child trying to scratch an itch that I can't get to. I hope you are able to find a good female T. Most of the time I think mine is doing exactly what's best for me and other times I am scared to death she is going to lose patience with me and send me away. Good luck with your search. KOI

Jill, I could have written your post myself. Amazing how some people can say exactly what you are thinking.

"how the heck do you function when you are dying inside"

"i am really dying inside, i present 'well', but are y'all ever just dying inside, but the outside looks so fine that no one knows."

I know these feelings so well. I am highly functional - I have been in the same job for many many years, even worked 2 jobs at one point. No one from the "outside" would ever think that I have been addicted to drugs, used while working, see a t, or even tried to die a couple of times. Dying on the inside.
Always have the happy face, an uplifting word, just everything is lah-dee-dah. Ugh!

I love the humpty-dumpty thing!! Can my family come too?

Jill! good posts and good thread! so sorry
you are hurting so much

quote:

how the heck do you function when you are dying inside, and mad as hell that your first therapist, who you poured every nuance of your personality to, couldn't fix stuff.

I could have written this myself!

quote:

dang, i want to move to montana.

oh can I join you?

my brain is fried, i have no good input - i'm still wondering how to figure this one out! just wanted to say you are not alone in this and was i thinking of you

jane, smiley, koi

i wrote this awhile ago, and thanks for bringing it back to life, for me to see that i do, right now, feel better.

i don't think she is going to kick me out. i can't say she loves me, but i think she feels for me a bit. and maybe enjoys the challenge and the trust i am slowly putting into her hands.

she is smart, and fairly direct, and so far so good. and yes, smiley, plenty of room for misfits in that humpty dumpty egg. too, smiley, i guess it is good that we are so highly funcitoning, i know the 'lie' of it feels bad, but, it let's us get out of our pain a bit to function and be taken 'as if' i were a competent adult inside...my t thinks a third grader is running my emotions. true, and kinda helps to put it in that term. she IS i believe going to help me grow that up. janedoe, come on to montana!! really, i am better now, thanks for being here with this post. and koi, that itch you refer to, i think one day, and i am beginning to see it might be there, that itch won't itch so much...at least it won't itch for every person we meet...t told me about 'throw away' friends, in relation to a topic i brought up about how an aquaintance really triggered me, and that i need to look at these people as not 'maybe going to be that perfect person in my life that can meet all my needs' but as an opportunity to practice being an assertive person. with little to no consequences. i have tried that, and funny, this chick's attitude has turned around towards me into a more equal relationship. hmmmmmmmmmmm...could therapy be working????

Jill,
That is so wonderful. Sounds like you Have a great T! I am very happy for you. You sound like things are really looking up. You have brightened my day! Take care of yourself!
KOI

quote:

And T told me once you have this healing, you will be in healthy relationships where you can experience mature, lasting love....while prior to healing your inner wounds, you might be with (either consciously or unconsciously) people who may be abusive...for various reasons..

Oh, how I wish that happens to me some day...


On the downside I don't dare to call what my T is offering me "Love"
He does give me so much, my life is not the same as before and I will not go back to the place where I was before therapy.
But still, to call it love... I don't know if that is... acceptable. I would not want to lie to myself and name something with the name, that he would never use.
He said once: I think you don't believe you can be loved by a man.
That is very much true. I want something that I can't have, so I try to make myself forget about it, stop wanting it or find a proof that maybe I am like others and can have it too. It's very hard, but I feel so much stronger and I am much more able to deal with that.

Great, great thread..

This is such an important theme.

I think therapi- work most important ingredians(?) are love. (you know Freud once said to Ferrenzi, that therapi/talking cure- was noting but A LOVE CURE!)

I just take a guess here: Love, defined as:

- Listen to you (carefully)
- Show interest in you
- accept you
- help you to help yourself
- contain and hold your frustration
- keep a loving distance-
- accept your needs (not meet them)
- respect you
- be open and honest with you
- allow oneself to be moved/touched by the patient (counter trenseference)
- wanting all the best for the patient

all this things that the Good Parent want to give their child, but whitin a therapeutic context with all its boundries and limitations.

But i realy do think that the "nature" of the therapeutic relationship- creates love.
You T do Loves you, the way he/she can. That often means NOT the way we want. ah..looks so nice and lovely at the paper, so often harsh and brutal in real life, i think..


Amazon: I agree with you - i dont dear to call my T´s love (whatever) for real LOVE. Its easer to see it is a general thing.. but not in MY therapi, not MY T...if you understand? (cant find the right words here..hm..)

quote:

Originally posted by Frog:

I just take a guess here: Love, defined as:

- Listen to you (carefully)
- Show interest in you
- accept you
- help you to help yourself
- contain and hold your frustration
- keep a loving distance-
- accept your needs (not meet them)
- respect you
- be open and honest with you
- allow oneself to be moved/touched by the patient (counter trenseference)
- wanting all the best for the patient

My T matches all these traits, aside from counter transference. I mean, I'm pretty sure he experiences it (I've seen him tear up before), but he's very good at not showing it.

Just last night, we talked about this topic. He explained that I am "pre-loaded" to expect to be rejected and treated in a cold, distant way, and to feel that he doesn't give a damn about me. And he's right. In spite of all the things listed above that my T provides me each and every session, I still feel like he's cold and detached and lacks human warmth. He said, "you HAVE to feel this way. You brought decades of feeling this way in response your father into therapy with you, and you don't yet know how to respond in any other way, in spite of how you're treated."

As much as I hate this, he's right again. As much as I say that I want warmth, affection and emotional intimacy, it scares the living crap out of me, and I've got layers and layers of defence up between me and it. It feels totally threatening and, especially, strange and alien to me. And yet, there's a part of me that's not only dying to receive it, but dying to give it, but because it feels so "not me," it's frightening.

My T think that I need to learn intimacy partly by taking some risks and not waiting for it to come to me. He means this in terms of both himself and the people close to me. He's right again, because I'm only able to partake in emotional closeness when it's initiated by someone else, and even then, it's very difficult for me. I rarely, if ever, initiate it myself. Somewhere along the line...probably sometime between birth and age 5...my trust in people was totally destroyed by being rejected by my father, and not being connected very closely to my mother. Also, when my father was dismissive and rejecting of me, my mother never, ever stood up to him and/or defended me. She was scared to death of him, too. So, there went any sense of safety and security I might've had.

Result? No safety, no trust = seriously compromised adult. I feel like I have to learn how to feel safe and trusting all over again at age 43, and hope that in the process, my god-awful anxiety and depression fades.

I hope this makes some kind of sense.

Russ

quote:

And my T does give me love through those means...

quote:

I do feel loved by my T. He does care about me-and from how he talks of other patients-I see how he truly cares for all his patients.

quote:

I have been internalizing his love, and as a result, I see a new beauty to life. His love gives me strength to get through those times, where I come out stronger than I was before...I've never felt this kind of love from another adult and it's a whole new world for me.

All I want to know is: how did you do that?
I don't know if my T is giving me love. I seriously don't know if I can call this love. I don't know if I should feel loved by my T. I just can't reach there. I feel sometimes like he is pushing me to say something, something about love, but I really don't know.
Once, long time ago, well few months ago I said to him, that I would like to be loved by him. He replied that he can't give me what I want, but he will be with me through this. He also asked if I feel loved by him. I couldn't answer this question. I was shattered. I was crying so hard during this session. It was so painful. I don't know if I can and want to go there again. At the end he gave me a real hug. It was so wonderful, that I was feeling happy again.
I don't know if there is any love there for me.

UV, I would like to be able to have it too, but I don't know how. I don't know if it's there, so I am too afraid to find out. How did you do that? How did you began to feel loved by your T?
Sometimes I think that I don't know what love is, when is it love, what is it like to feel loved.

quote:

As much as I say that I want warmth, affection and emotional intimacy, it scares the living crap out of me, and I've got layers and layers of defence up between me and it. It feels totally threatening and, especially, strange and alien to me. And yet, there's a part of me that's not only dying to receive it, but dying to give it, but because it feels so "not me," it's frightening.

I think it is so much true for me. It is something I always craved, but I didn't know how to find it, what to do to have it. An maybe there were times, maybe... I don't know... that I could have it, but I run away, because I didn't know what is it. There is part of me that craves it, and another part of me that rejects it to stay safe. So I end up being anxious and depressed when I'm alone, and I was also anxious and depressed when I was in a relationship.