Ah, Liese.

You have gone through so much with your T. I imagine he can see that this is such a reflection of your trust for him. I know it feels humiliating but I think it speaks volumes of your progress. You can articulate what you feel/need. It's even cooler than taking your shoes off.

I know it's hard but I know you can do it!

(((Liese)))
I've had similar conversations with my T, where I actually said "I want to snuggle in next to you on the couch." Yep. Red faced embarrassment and full of shame once those words slipped out. T, as wonderful as she is, took it all in stride, and I found that it opened up a whole new layer of our work together. Of course, I logically and intellectually know snuggling or sitting with T in any way, shape, or form, is not only not gonna happen, it's not appropriate to let it happen as an adult.

T has helped me find other ways to get my need for cuddling met, and the conversations that we have had since that slipped out have been very deep, yes, painful too, but in the grand scheme of things, letting that desire escape my brain really was a huge step forward.

Go tomorrow, talk to T, you've been through so much together, he'll likely take this in stride, too.

If I went back and faced my T after overenthusiastically and awkwardly hugging her when she wasn't expecting it...you can totally do this! Sure it's embarrassing and sad that you can't get it, but don't make it worse than it is. It's a normal desire, and there are other people in your life to cuddle with!

Edit: I'm sorry if that sounded dismissive. I don't actually know if there is anyone else in your life you feel OK cuddling with at this time. I hope if there isn't, you can find someone in the near future...

((Liese)) this sounds really rough. Something I've wanted to ask for from T1 but.... am just too terrified of the no. So I am just so impressed by you, and others who have asked.

I think just like many people who have not received touch, or limited touch from their T have learned a lot from it, and how to self sooth and feel "held" in a different way. I remember calling my T after a session thanking her that even though our content wasn't much that day I left feeling like I had just been praying with someone or being soothed gently. I don't know why it was just... she did what she always does I just let it come in.

Which of course, being a T she had to tell me it was good progress, it meant I was accepting being "attended to". I think a lot of people associate being attended to as physical touch, but it's not always. I've learned with T1 how to be so soothed on the phone, etc. I don't know how. I think... it's a trust thing.

I think what you said is like saying... I want to go deeper with you, I feel like I want to be attended to by you, I feel connected. That's just my theory. I think somewhere inside it resolves, even if it is painful and it can be very difficult as an adult. In my personal opinion I don't think touch is bad at all, and I do think it can be appropriate at the right times, maybe not cuddling but just being near. Instead many times we have to learn to feel near like a heart to heart thing. Sucks.

I think... what you said was brave and bold and I think you can confront your T with your genuine feelings - from grief to anger, to embarrassment. May write something to read? He can help you through this.

I don't know if my thoughts mean much but I work with a T (T2) that does bodywork (somatic experiencing, which many Ts actually use without touch because it can be done and is very powerful - and no... none of it is "cuddling" 95% of it is almost like physical therapy but... without moving) and believes touch is essential to healing. Sometimes I feel like it's "cheating the system" like I'm supposed to cognitively do it on my own (but there is no amount of physical contact that can ever heal our wounds, it's impossible) and since we're using touch I'm missing out on harder work I should be doing. I think what the desire for touch is... is the desire for comfort because as we get closer... it's scarier, we want to be reassured and Ts can do that in other ways. And teach us compassion for ourselves. I know some of us (myself included) were never touched as children except to be abused and I never know if no touch makes it better, worse, or doesn't matter.

I think we all feel the need for touch though - I read somewhere that babies in the united states are among the least touched in the entire world. And left to 'cry it out' etc. If/when I have a kid that thing is going to be attached to me 24/7 just like people in villages. Some children die from lack of touch - there is a story out there about a Russian nursery where children died, etc. I think it's natural to ask, natural to hear a no as an adult... natural to feel how you do.... but you will work it out, I hope you can go to session.

Sorry to ramble so long.

((((OUTSIDER))))

Why do you think it speaks volumes about my progress? I keep trying to find something therapeutic in this but can't. Would love to know how you see it.

((((ROOM2GROW))))

It's nice to know that others have said similar things to their therapist. How do you think the conversations that followed helped you? I have no idea what to say tomorrow.

(((BLT)))

I do have my kids to cuddle with but it's not the same as getting a protective hug or embrace when I'm scared or sad. With the kids, I'm the protector, kwim? Maybe it's all a fantasy I have.

Yes, you did go back in and face your T after you hugged her. How did that go?

(((CAT)))

I don't think touch is bad either but I do feel held in other ways, just as you said. Lately I've been feeling so safe with T and that's a really nice feeling to have.

It is true that babies die if they are not touched enough. It's essential.

I could stay in the "longing" phase - wanting something that seems within reach but ultimately cannot have. We all know how painful that place is. If I pull back and accept T is not budging and I'm never going to get this particular thing from him, it's just so hard for me to shape it and get a handle on it. It's like there's all this pain and grief tied up in that ball. I hate the fact that I always want what's unavailable.

The thought just came to me that everyone in my childhood WAS unavailable and so it's my reference point. Watching others get what they wanted but not me. Not understanding why I couldn't have what they had. Never understanding that I kept trying to get close to people who were not accessible.

I don't know what I'm trying to say. Wish me luck tomorrow.

You are one brave girl! I SO want my T to hug me but I haven't had the courage to tell him.
It will be painful, awkward and embarrassing. And you know your T might want to hug you but doesn't because they know that immediate gratification can interfere with long term growth and healing. Over time the empathy, attentiveness and understanding will come to feel like physical holding and will help you hold yourself in a way you and others haven't been able to before. Then you can use it to help build reciprocal relationships where there can be heaps of cuddles. Will be thinking of you tomorrow xx

PS: something my T said to me today - if you focus on how what your not getting isn't exactly what yo want you miss out on what us available. I was cranky when he said that but I think there's some truth to it. And that can make the loss and grief worse and it's enough as it is

no words of wisdom, but i just wanted to offer a little support. good luck, Liese!

Hi Liese... what was his response when you asked for that? Did he say anything?

That need for the cuddling comes from your inner child. She is the one who is most attached to T. And she is looking for that safe touch that is soothing and makes everything okay. You should have had that as a little child and I'm sorry that kind of touch was not given to you back then. That is what you need to grieve. And, honestly, I don't think even if your T was agreeable to it that it would help make that need go away because it's a need that is tied to the past.

And yes, I have yearned for that very same thing from both of my T's. That wanting to sit next to them, with a head on their shoulder or even at their feet while we talk or they read or tell stories to me. But when I imagine this in my head, I don't see the grown up me doing it. I see a small, young child and that is how I feel when those thoughts are the strongest.

You have been through a lot with your T and he will understand and be open to talking this through even if it's a "touchy" subject. If you feel that this need comes from a younger place inside you, then that would be a good thing to tell your T and if you do talk it over, I am sure you will find some healing in it.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

Hugs
TN

(((((Liese)))))

Firstly; good luck for todays session. I'm sure everything will be just fine.

I think Monte was absolutely right in saying:-

quote:

so you must have been feeling very comfortable with your T on an 'inner' level for it to have slipped out

and that in itself must show great progress in your healing process.

quote:

I hate the fact that I always want what's unavailable.

I get that totally. My T last session did and said so many things to prove to me absolutely that she cares deeply about me; and yet, like you; I always long for that little bit more; that little bit extra that will never be available to me. I wish I knew the answer to that one Liese.

Big hugs to you, Liese...I hope the session goes well. Please let us know!

(((Liese)))

I hope the session goes well. I think it is pretty amazing that you felt comfortable enough at the time to use the word cuddle. As much as I trust my T and wish for a closer connection when I am not in his office I usually am a lot more closed off in person.

Thinking of you today, Liese, and sending you thoughts for courage and peace.

What I meant when I spoke about seeing progress is what you and others have articulated, too...that you can allow yourself to feel and express those feelings, even if it still causes some discomfort. Your putting it out there so that it has to be worked through, and I see that as growth. Mind you, it's not fun. We're here for you.

Hope all goes well today Liese!

Thank you guys for all the support and wellwishes. T of course was unflappable. I just need a little time to process it all and I will come back later.

The best Ts are unflappable Liese
Don't beat yourself up too much, honesty is always the best policy, you have done well

Liese... I'm not surprised T was unflappable. And I'm glad too. Look forward to hearing about it. Hope you are doing okay.

TN

I am typing from my phone so this might be choppy. I wasn't sure how I was going to approach the subject or how I would start the session. I thought about making a joke of it all but in the end decided not to address it at all. I rambled on about random things until T finally asked about "my sadness". That's what we call it: "my sadness". I told him that I am tired of humiliating myself week after week and he told me he is not judging me and he's glad we talked about it. He told me focusing on the one thing we can't have Instead of focusing on what we do have and how far we have come.

It felt like we just went round and round today. Not really sure what we talked about. He told me I was being stubborn about the issue and I told him he was being stubborn. He agreed he was being stubborn. He said we need to do some work in this area. He told me that the safer I feel in yhere with him, the safer I will feel in te real world.

I told him that I was angry with him and that I am tired of wanting things I couldn't have.

He was super nice and told me as I left that he believes in me. Where that came from, I have no idea.

It's like I've got this grief just hanging over me. I don't know how to get rid of it.

Liese

I know how awful the limits are and how much emotional pain they can trigger. It is horrendous to be told no to so many things you want and deserve. Unfortunately our relationship with our T's is restricted so we can know our grief, mourn our losses and then heal. So much easier to write this than to do it in practice though. Try not to run from your grief. The more time you spend with it, the less power it will have and the more healed you will become. I'm in a similar boat ATM in my own journey xx