((Liese))

Revealing and discussing really hard stuff like this (congrats by the way, that took a ton of courage!) usually triggers a flight response. I know after I tell my Ts stuff that feels vulnerable, I feel like they don't like me and therefore I don't want to face them - the shame of my own pain is unbearable. So I do understand what you're saying. This is actually the most important time to go back and stay "in relationship" as my T would say... and experience you can say things you feel badly, or ashamed about and still have that connection there.

Sorry you are having difficulties re: boundaries right now. I also find I am a lot more comfortable when I see my T twice a week. They are pauses in the chaos - they have yet to admit that I've drained them yet. I know both of my Ts see clients twice a week - but they both have experience with trauma and it sounds like your T didn't have as much experience with that in his practice and is sort of learning.

I notice you are subscribing to a slippery slope - that if you had not received the extra session you'd have found your way in to being a ward of the state with little hope (bad prognosis). That might have happened, but... it might also not have happened, you could have flourished somehow also (I'm not saying you weren't in intense pain - just saying you MAY not have ended in a worst case scenario). I think that feeling like because he gave that to you saved you from what sounds like a really awful existence I can see how that would create some very difficult feelings with boundaries - sort of like, "if you don't give me this I'll die for sure". And those sound to me like very young feelings - attachment stuff because that is literally how it was at one point in our development. Maybe this boundary stuff feels like that "if you have any boundaries, you can't give me what I need, therefore I'll die, so I'll just go die sooner to avoid the pain of dying slowly". I might be totally off base, so just ignore anything that doesn't apply but I think you're at a really good point in your therapy and attachment development stuff right now - this is good important work. I think you'll see that you can still survive in relationship with him and that he won't reject you and will continue to meet you and you will continue to improve. Infants and stuff go through intense rage when separating (or perceiving separation/individuation) because for a while they really are just an extension of the AF. So I can sorta see, at least from my perspective, really being "in" attachment cry right now - which you've said a part of you is in a lot.

Is he changing any boundaries on you or you guys were just kind of clarifying them? I've been having boundary talks with my Ts too but they (keep lying to me IMHO) telling me it's okay.

I'm frequently ashamed to see my T - actually as of tonight I've decided I'm not deciding until Sunday if I can ever see them again because it's just too awful. Usually I go to those sessions where I just want to be about 2" tall and spend my entire waiting room time praying a meteor will hit the room the second I walk in and I just tell my T I'm uncomfortable and don't want to be there and we work up from there. Do you have anything that soothes you in session? (blanket, pillow, teddy bear, something you carry?) if not... bring something like that with you. I always have something to fiddle with and it helps when I'm sitting there silently. Sometimes just sitting there with her... it helps to tolerate the feeling of 'you're going to hurt me or hate me' and she is just sitting there being safe. I remind myself of a cat... you know how (most cats anyway) will not come up to people until the people really aren't interested? Or they find the one person who HATES CATS and snuggles them in ways the owner has never seen before? It's body language the cats feel a non-threat vibe... (if you're not interested, you're not a threat - so they can go check you out instead!). Anyway... that's what it's like just sitting with my T sometimes I'm waiting until my body system experiences her as just... hanging out, not gonna hurt me. This might be the perfect session to take a walk, or do art, or something... to get distance from the topic but keep the connection? If that wouldn't be over activating...

Liese. Firstly = amazing courage to bring this up with him. I don't know the answer. Just keep going back and talking it out. What I like about your T is that he admits when he is challenged, pushed boundaries, when he doesn't know what to do. he is honest.

I think this is a story about you wanting something that you can never have. Tell me how it will change you, improve you, affect you - if he says he loves you. Isn't it the same that he said he was fond of you?? I am trying to suss out why it is critically important to you.

I am avoidant attachment style - and I actually don't want people telling me they love me, because that means they care and I feel that it is a burden - so I really don't relate to yours or anyone's need for their T to say it. I also have a female T - so it has a different connotation. So learning about your difficulty with this is a great learning experience for me.

Imagine he says - that yes he loves you. Have you visualised what happens next, what you say next, how does the therapeutic relationship change?

Sorry, I am useless at this type of thing.

((((Liese )))),

I'm interested in all the feed back you get.

As you know I quite therapy because I wanted a friendship with T and well...it went to H*ll in a hand-basket. Check out my post explaining and asking for advice.

I know how you are feeling ... been there done that as far as letting T know how important T was to me.

kansas x 1000

Liese, I think you got some good responses and Cat made some interesting points.

You were amazingly brave today and you need to be proud of yourself. Good for you. And good for your T as he was fine with the whole conversation. I think you are experiencing a shame reaction to making yourself so vulnerable to your T. To opening up about how much you want him to love you as you love him. So, even though he reacted well, it's still hard to go back to face him because your feelings are more exposed to him now. But it's okay.

I would tell you that there is still lots to talk about like why it's like life and death that you feel you need his love. You are searching for the love that you should have had as a child and didn't get. THAT is what needs to be grieved, not that your T does not love you. In fact, I would say that from his behavior your T cares very much for you. He has given you the two sessions, he reall all the articles, he has changed his way of practicing with you, he had learned a lot and was open to hearing what you needed. That shows real caring to me. I so wish my oldT would have read ANYTHING that I had given him and been able to see what I really needed from him.

I was so glad to hear about your discussion of dependency and how with the extra session you became MORE independent. Its seems paradoxical but it's so true. You have done so well with the new job and volunteering and keeping yourself stable in between. You go girl!

So you will go back to T and instead of trying to invent a reason to leave him, stay with him and take into yourself all he has to offer you. Keep it all close to you so that you have it for when he is not around. Leaving him would just hurt you and you would deny yourself the care and nurturing you need from him. And while you are taking in his care you can also discuss what you didn't get as a child and mourn it with him comforting you.

Whatever happens or not in his personal life, you will still have him for those 2 hours each week when his sole attention is devoted to you.

You are so courageous, you will find the strength to go back to see him and work this through.

Many hugs
TN

(((Liese)))

I think it is great that you went in and told him how you felt. It was very courageous. I hope you can go back and experience the fact that telling him how you felt didn't change the relationship and his care for you. I understand the pain of his care not feeling like enough and your desire to have him say he loves you. I am feeling the same way about what I want from my T, that not getting it is more painful than never saying what I wanted or possibly not seeing him anymore.

I'm not in a very good place myself right now so I don't think I can help except to tell you I hope it gets easier for you.

Hugs,

hey guys,

thanks for your thoughts. They were very helpful.

The touch issue has become sticky despite his initial attempts in the fall/winter. He thinks it might start out as innocent but that sexual feelings with inevitably develop. I found out that he only shakes mens hands and not womens.

The other thing that he told me yesterday is that he felt "shame" when I fist started to want to come twice a week. Then he said that shame wasn't the right word but couldn't find another acceptable word. Because in his circle or at least in his mind, independence is the goal. (The last thing I need to feel is more "shame".)


So the question I keep asking myself is, why should I stay with someone for whom meeting my needs is a struggle when another therapist might not have as much trouble responding to me? Maybe I'm deceiving myself here and want more than I think I want. I think I am recognizing that I am losing interest in the relationship.

I was really not functioning well at all last year and even while seeing him twice a week begged him to hospitalize me. I really didn't want to live.

In retrospect, and I can only admit this now, the only thing that gave me a reason to live was thinking and/or hoping that he loved me.

I wasn't thinking at the time, I have to have this or I will die. I just honestly didn't want to live because I couldn't make any connections with anyone and the one I had with him, literally, was giving me the will to live even if I was living in fantasyland. Maybe you have a different take on this but I know how bad I was functioning. I had myself convinced my kids didn't need me.

So, it is only at this vantage point that I can truly say I needed it like I need water. It was that essential. I look at homeless people now and I get it. I was almost that hopeless, not caring about connecting with anyone.

My point is, then, if that feeling of self worth that I was able to feel initially only when I was with him WAS able to flourish and expand and and grow to the point where I am now, when I can hold onto feelings of self-worth when I am not with him, who is to say that the same thing wouldn't happen if I felt "loved" by him? That I might start to feel "loveable".

I could be way off base but the professional veneer that he maintains really bothers me. It really bothers me that I could be so pathetically in love with him when the most he can say for me is that he's fond of me. I'm having a really hard time with his detachment. I've known him for 4 years. It's not like I just walked in the door.

And I'm not 100% convinced that it's for my benefit for him not to "love" me, in the way that I think of it, to feel affection for someone. He told me he couldn't even say he felt affection for me. Maybe you are stronger than I am. But I'm having a hard time with this. Where is the clinical evidence that I couldn't feel loved by him but still maintain a professional relationship and still grow and flourish?

Maybe this is all about separation and individuation. Maybe I don't know how to be separate and still be in the relationship. I just don't get it. I honestly and truly don't get it.



Thanks again,

Liese

Well Liese...

I really think the best possible outcome for therapy is for the client to really come to feel in their heart that their therapist likes them, cares about them, respects them, and is probably fond of them as well. And yet to also come to terms with the fact that mo matter how their therapist might feel about them, they can never give them love in the way that they would want it. This could lead to grief over the love one didn't get as a child, followed by building and strengthening relationships outside of therapy.

I think you're closer to achieving these things than you realize. I think you're pushing on the boundaries right now because you're just on the verge of being able to grieve about the past and start putting more energy into nontherapy relationships. But you don't have to terminate right now to do that.

(((BLT))))

Oh, I get hungry ever time I type your name. I am inclined to agree with you because I feel a certain strength now that I didn't feel before. A certain interest in things "other than therapy" that I didn't feel before.

I could be wrong about this but I think I only have two states: Being obsessed and trying to get love OR feeling detached. I don't seem to have a state in the middle. I feel like I could walk away right now and be done with it. I don't know how to maintain that desire to continue to go to therapy without feeling loved as some type of motivational factor.

Yes, I want to change. But I want to change with someone I feel loved by. Not someone I feel detached from. Does that make sense?

I don't think my brain has a middle ground and that's probably why I've had problems my whole life swinging back and forth from detachment to obsession and back again.

I think that's very insightful, Liese. It's like you either want this person to embody the perfect, all-consuming love you wanted as a child but didn't get...or they are going to be absolutely nothing to you.

The reality is you are never going to find that perfect, ideal love and yet you can still have valuable relationships anyway. Maybe it's something you can't be open to experiencing unless you've mourned and let go of the perfect love you're never going to have.

Hi Liese,

I was a little hesitant to reply to this, because I do not feel in any way qualified to offer advice as to whether or not you should stay with your T, but I wanted to at least chime in to help you feel "heard," and will throw out a few thoughts while I'm at it.

It doesn't seem outrageous to me that you should want to feel loved by your T. I understand why the Ts shy away from that word, because the various ways people can define it can be tricky, but if by love you mean that you want to feel caring, nurture, connection, well meaning and kindness flowing from another human being. . . I think that's perfectly natural and healthy and not at all inappropriate to the therapeutic relationship. I wonder if staying with a T who does not, or cannot, offer you those things might not reinforce the very destructive feeling that love is unattainable?
In such a case, I don't see how switching T's could be a bad thing. It might just be a sign that you are getting better at identifying your needs and finding ways to have them met.

On the other hand, if it is a case where you do feel your T's concern and care, but it just isn't enough, then maybe there is something to the notion that you are learning to mourn early childhood losses in the context of your therapy. I know people talk about that a lot on here. I just don't know how the distinction is made, or what at all applies in your situation. But, I wanted to let you know that I am pondering it as I sit here typing and that I wish you well.

Hugs,
HIC

Liese... you are in black and white thinking. It's common to those with trauma backgrounds. You either want him to love you deeply or you feel you cannot stay and have this current relationship where he cares about you and is fond of you and from which you learn and grow with his support and guidance. Why would you want to throw away something that is very good just because it's not exactly what you want? And who knows if what you want is even possible or exists?

For what it's worth... when I start to push boundaries and feel like T hates me or that this relationship the way it is is not enough... then it also means I have to start looking into my past because it's almost always connected to something that needs to be processed and grieved. And the feeling you want to leave (run away) could also mean something is hovering in your unconscious that is making you feel the need to run because facing the pain seems unimaginable.

I know that my T messed up this week but I also know the issue of having his wife around the office is connected to a lot of junk in my past. I just needed to talk to him about it and have him hear it and help me to figure it all out... how those connections work and what to do about it. None of this was about wanting my T to love me more than his wife (although he may be thinking this and boy do I need to set him straight). Do you think I want to go back to face him after he called me mean, overly critical and ungraceful? That really hurt and believe me I want to badly to run. But in the end I think that would only hurt me. I would also hope that he is taking this time to rethink the mess he made of all this and how it's not really nice to call your patient names when they are in extreme pain.

I do hope you stay with your T Liese. He has made great strides in understanding but he is not perfect. No one is. Give him a chance to help you come to terms with this. You have come so far with him... don't give up now.

Many hugs
TN

Liese,

You've gotten really good responses, here. I'm totally not understanding what therapy is really about lately, but I like what BLT said. It really helps me to understand what my T is doing with me/to me right now.

Don't give up. Keep going. And, keep talking with T about it if you need to.

<3

quote:

The reality is you are never going to find that perfect, ideal love and yet you can still have valuable relationships anyway. Maybe it's something you can't be open to experiencing unless you've mourned and let go of the perfect love you're never going to have.

BLT, this was an eye opener. Maybe you are right about me not being open to it until I've mourned that love I've been looking for and could never find.

HELD,

Thanks for replying. It's a really hard situation. RUN FOR YOUR LIFE has been playing through my head for the past month. My T is on the more conservative side re: showing care and concern. And I probably need a lot of approval. So, I'm not so sure we are the PERFECT match. David Wallins book is intersting in that it talks about the attachment style of the therapist and how it interacts with our attachment style. My T's style might be more avoidant or dismissive. He says it's mostly secure but if he leans in any direction it's dismissive. And, according to the literature, my style (mainly preoccupied, with other features also) mixed with his style will actually yield predictable results. And he and I have marvelled actually at how predictable the things that have happened between have been. And so, sometimes I do feel like it might be this push/pull of our styles and neither one of us is right or wrong. We are just coming from two entirely different places and I'm just questioning whether or not it would be more beneficial to work with someone with whom I don't have this dynamic.

On the other hand, I could just be looking for intellectual reinforcement to RUN FOR MY LIFE.

It's all so confusing but on top of it, I just got fired from my job. My boss said everyone loved me but that it is a fast-paced high volume business and that I'm a thinker. He told me he thinks I'm very smart and a great writer and that I do well when I have the time to do things at my pace. He also said my organizational skills are really bad. I was feeling uncomfortable with the fast pace and starting to question myself if it was a good match. I also WAS having a hard time controlling the massive amount of paperwork that was on my desk.

There must be a link between organization and trying to manage your environment. Part of my problem has been that I've never been able to manage my environment. I was always managed by it. And, so, here I am at the age of 48, trying to build this new muscle and it's just not getting stronger. Off to the library.

Now I really don't want to go see T on Monday because he's been so supportive and said he believes in me and I feel like I'm going to let him down.

Oh, so much going on at one time.

TN,

Oh, that's very interesting. I never thought of black and white thinking as applying to myself like the way you described it. I think the problem is that I really don't know anything else. I don't have any other templates for relationships. Mine are: try to get love and if not, detach and run for the hills. I even told T that yesterday, that my all my feelings are in this bundle of wanting to be loved and that other than that, I don't feel anything. It's a tricky place to be in.

In any event, maybe most of it comes down to feeling like a real ASS for telling him how I am going to feel when he shows up with a wedding ring. I could have not said anything and just dealt with it privately but it's part of why I've wanted to leave, so that I could just move on and not have to face that day. But now what happens when that day comes? Will he help me process it? Will we talk about it? IDK. I probably don't have to deal with that very soon.

Oftentimes I worry about myself, that I don't feel anything for the people in my life. And I wonder what kind of monster am I.

It's off to clean and try to get organized.

Thanks for all your support.

xoxoxoxoxo

Liese

(((Liese)))

I'm sorry about losing your job. I don't think T will be disappointed with you. It was a big step to go back to work. I hope next time you find a job that is a better fit for you. As for your T I can't add anything to the great comments you have gotten.

((((NINN)))

We cross-posted. Thanks for the support. Therapy is confusing, that's for sure. And there is a part of me that really resents it. On the one hand, if I quit now, I'm a therapy failure. But it's bringing to my attention all the things I can't have and I don't like that either. I'd rather just avoid it all.

So, I feel trapped in therapy hell. It's like purgatory, some wierd, dark, damp in between kind of place and you're just waiting to go one way or the other.

COGS,

Thanks for the continuing support. I know you are having a hard time too.

xoxoxoox

liese

((Liese))

Really sorry to hear about your job I hope you will still go to T on Monday and take gentle care of yourself this weekend.

(((Liese)))

You were so brave to share that. I just shared something (unrelated to T, but very painful and shameful) and had a similar response of being unsure I could go back. It helped that I only had two days in between the two sessions. Experiencing that the connection and T's care didn't change makes me able to keep going, but I still feel I might run at any moment if I have to keep sharing this stuff.

I know it always feels like the love that is there for us, or fondness or care or whatever they feel safe calling it (i.e. my T calls it love, but ALWAYS makes sure he calls it God's love for us, "When we love others with the love of God, etc., so it kind of depersonalizes the connection in a way, though I know that's not his intention), is inferior. I guess, I am trying to understand that it doesn't have to be. It is not the organic sort of connection that was meant to happen in our childhood. That is something we just have to grieve. But, it is a "real" connection, a real sort of love, no matter what they feel safe calling it. A concern for another's wellfare, a wishing them health and happiness, a sort of making room for someone else in your heart.

He will never need you, but that is something else. My T will never need me in the way I need him, but that's OK, right? I will likely never need Boo in quite the way she needs me (or else, I will be extremely old when I do). It doesn't mean I don't love her, because I love her more than anything. But, I'm wondering if somewhere in your childhood the only way some people expressed care for you was needing you. I know that happened to me and caused a lot of confusion about what it means to be loved by someone else.

Sorry if that didn't make any sense. I know I have written this sort of thing before (and probably more eloquently), but I am not all here mentally right now.

Lots of

quote:

I wasn't really functioning very well. The truth was, the only time I actually felt okay about myself was when I was with him. Every other minute of the day was spent in self-loathing. And, so the truth of the matter is that my self-worth was very dependent upon seeing him. Seeing him WAS like getting the water I needed to survive. I really didn't want to live otherwise. I really didn't.

Dear Liese
A big hug to you for telling him this , and share this here..
I understand what you are feeling, I just aldo admit this to my T this week, that I would like to see him 1 week, I just cant survive if there is longer between .. so good for you, and like my T said he is also learning along the way with me about trauma and things around that .. Hugs

quote:

Therapy is confusing, that's for sure. And there is a part of me that really resents it. On the one hand, if I quit now, I'm a therapy failure. But it's bringing to my attention all the things I can't have and I don't like that either. I'd rather just avoid it all.

So, I feel trapped in therapy hell. It's like purgatory, some wierd, dark, damp in between kind of place and you're just waiting to go one way or the other.

I just saw this post, I was also saying to my T a was so angry frustarated about what I haver missed and cant have ,like you , I think this is something we have to talk more to our T , like trying to accept that, I am having hard time about this, and is like , why am I putting my self in this hell, But I am hoping I will become stronger, plz dont give up, talk to him about this, it is like baby steps to get better .. Hope you are feeling little better ..

quote:

Originally posted by Liese:

So, I feel trapped in therapy hell. It's like purgatory, some wierd, dark, damp in between kind of place and you're just waiting to go one way or the other.


liese

Omg liese for a moment I thought I had written that post and didn't remember when! You described exactly how it feels for me too. Let me know how to get out of it if you find out :P good luck for tomorrow! *hugs*

((((((Liese))))))) I'm so sorry you are struggling so much and things are so crummy right now.

quote:

On the one hand, if I quit now, I'm a therapy failure. But it's bringing to my attention all the things I can't have and I don't like that either. I'd rather just avoid it all.

Even if you quit now, you would be anything BUT a "therapy failure." You have made so much progress and done so much healing work, and what you shared with your T was amazingly courageous, and a good thing, to share.

It makes a ton of sense why you feel the way about your T that you do. He provided something you needed, very desperately, last year.

quote:

In retrospect, and I can only admit this now, the only thing that gave me a reason to live was thinking and/or hoping that he loved me.

I wasn't thinking at the time, I have to have this or I will die. I just honestly didn't want to live because I couldn't make any connections with anyone and the one I had with him, literally, was giving me the will to live even if I was living in fantasyland.

I want my Ts to love me. For me, it is partly because then it feels like the helping isn't a chore to them. It also makes being vulnerable to them feel safer - like someone who loved me would be les slikely to hurt me. It is also partly because I just want to be loved.

Your T does sound uncomfortable with dependency - but that is his stuff, and about him. And he has hung in with you through his discomfort. I don't know if your T will ever SAY he "loves" you, but that doesn't mean he does not love you. Non-romatic love involves not just feelings, but actions too. It involves sacrifice, acceptance, giving of one's self to meet another's needs. It sounds like your T does love you, in that way. He clearly holds you very dear to his heart, he's been willing to wade through things that make him uncomfortable, he's been willing to change to meet your needs, he's been willing to sacrifice for you, and hold boundaries that he feels he needs to keep both of you safe in the relationship. I think his reasons for not calling that love, very like have more to do with him, and his role as a professional, than him not caring for you in that kind of way.

T's in general stay away from the word "love" because to many clients, the word "love" has so many connotations and has so much potential to backfire. It doesn't mean that T's don't have clients they love. I did have a T who said she loved me, like a daughter. It really backfired. I never thought that it would have, and I did crave her love, but when she said it and spelled it out, it completely backfired. I ended up regretting that she said expressed that to me. For a lot of clients, I don't think this would backfire, but I think Ts are extra careful about it, because of the cases where it does backfire.

I think it is possible for your relationship with your T to still continue to be healing even though he may never say that he loves you. I get the sense that he is holding steady stable boundaries, and they hurt to you, and you want to run. If you really feel like you can't stay in the relationship or face him tomorrow, that's ok. But maybe don't give up entirely. Take a break, consult with someone else, but I hope you do go back. I think it could be really healing for you over time.

You are NOT bad for telling him how you would feel if he shows up with a wedding ring. Or at least if you are bad for that, then so am I. I've said simillar things to one of my Ts before. But I don't think either of us have anything to really feel bad for (but I understand feeling bad all the same).

quote:

Now I really don't want to go see T on Monday because he's been so supportive and said he believes in me and I feel like I'm going to let him down.

I get scared of this a lot. I'm actually scared of it right now with my

quote:

a sort of making room for someone else in your heart.

(((Liese)))

I'm so sorry about losing your job. It's a horrible thing to go through but I really doubt that your T will be disappointed in you. So many people, including my family members, are going through this and it's a blow to self-esteem but it sounds like you have so many great qualities to offer an employer.

I understand about therapy hell, as having been there before unfortunately. I'm on the fence now with therapy, not sure if I will return due to a painful session.

Yaku,

Thank you for the beautiful way you expressed how our Ts and Ps may possibly love us. It almost made me want to get down off that fence and make another appt.! Hope things get better for you this week.

CAT, YAKU, ANNA, ELIANE, JANEDOE AND SUMMER,

I'm overwhelmed by all the support and really appreciate all of your replies. I'm not in a good place to reply individually right now but will tomorrow.

I wasn't going to call T on Friday but after I got fired, I did call him and we spoke and he says we can work through this. I just really felt like a big jerk after what I told him. And then I couldn't bear the thought of facing him after getting fired. He's been so supportive. I've never lost a job before so it was a bit of a shock. But, what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

So, I will be going to see him tomorrow. Although, I'm really at a loss as to how to work through it all with him. How many times can I humiliate myself?

Hope everyone else is doing okay.

xoxoxoxoxo

Liese

(((Liese)))

Hope it goes well tomorrow.

Hi Liese,

Good luck tomorrow. I will be thinking of you. It seems we will both have difficult sessions to face.

Hugs
TN

d

((((BLT))))((((TN))))((((MUFF)))))

Thanks for all the support. Muff, that stuff is interesting and probably right on. I read something interesting recently that suggested that Freud tied the feelings to past relationships because he couldn't cope with the fact that the feelings might actually be from the present.

Unfortunately for me, I'm not one of those people for whom talking about it once resolves it. I wish it was that easy. To me it just feels like another big loss that I didn't want to experience. It's hard not to feel like a jerk after what I told him on Thursday. And how will he feel now when he shows up with a ring? Obviously, he shouldn't tell me when he's getting married. But he knows it will be hard for me. How is he going to deal with it when it happens? I guess we can't worry about that now.

One day at a time, right?

xoxooxoxox

Liese

Liese... how did it go yesterday? Are you okay? Let us know when you can.

Thinking of you today
TN

Liese,
I hope it went well for you. This is hard stuff!


Hopeful

(((Liese)))

I'm also waiting to hear about your session. I hope that it went okay and that you can update us soon.

(((Liese)))

Sending good thoughts. I hope you're doing OK. There is so much going on right now and I know it is probably really overwhelming.

Hi guys,

Thanks for checking in with me. The session was really nice but he's not going to be AG's T and tell me he carries me in his heart. It's not who he is. That's what he said.

What he did say is that he feels a connection to me, that I am not this small fraction in his life, that, in fact, he read an article I gave him and some stuff on transference over the weekend.

He told me he was glad I came. I apologized for calling him last Friday and he told me that he's always available for me and that he would have been upset if I didn't call him considering I got fired.

It was nice. I told him that I'm not making a commitment, that it's going to have to be session by session. He was okay with that.

I saw a consult today who I consulted with 5 years ago and would have chosen her as my T but her office really smelled. She was as lovely as I remember. Thank God she has a new office. She told me that I should take the intensity that I put into my relationship with T and put it into my relationship with my H. I told here there were problems there. She also told me to get a job. I told her, hey I was just fired a few days ago. And she told me that if I want it she has a spot for me. But she can't tell me what to do and that I should follow my gut. I thought that was interesting. Because we all know what my gut is saying.

xoxoxo

Liese

Liese, hi

quote:

It was nice. I told him that I'm not making a commitment, that it's going to have to be session by session.

I feel like I'm doing week by week right now (2 sessions a week). Not having a commitment, though, seems to be confusing my mind even more. Like I don't know what to really talk about or what to DO in therapy. And, then, slowly it feels I am losing the connection. And, then I'm wondering if I will just leave therapy. Do you think that will happen for you?

What is your gut saying right now?

(((((NINN))))

My gut is saying that the differences in our attachment styles will continue to create tension in the relationship in a way that has the potential to exacerbate my issues. And there is a part of me that worries that if I stay with him, I'll always be hoping that he'll love me eventually.

Ninn, I realized that I only have two settings, complete obsession or detachment. I don't have a healthy middle ground. I am afraid I will detach and have talked to T about it. So, I think it could be good to learn that middle ground. I'll keep going in the hopes that it will develop and T will help me develop a more healthy attachment style.

I actually have only those two settings with my children too. Either I'm completely absorbed in their issues or I am totally detached. I noticed that when I was working. Sometimes I'd come home and just not feel that attached to them. It was unnerving.

But I think this is something really important to develop. So, I'll give it time and see what happens. I really like this woman T so I will have a place to go if and when the time comes.

Have you talked to your T about the fact that you feel like you are losing the connection??

xoxo

Liese

(((Liese)))

I'm glad that you and T could communicate so clearly about how he feels about you. I'm sorry because it seems painful or at least disappointing the way you describe it but I wasn't there. I glad you saw a consult that you liked because I think it is helpful to have someone else you can talk to.

I'm amused that she told you to follow your gut because who could trust that. It sounds like you understand the attachment differences between you and your T. I think it is a very important goal to try and find the middle ground between detachment and obsession. I have a similar issue with attachment except I don't obsess about people instead attachment is all about contact frequency for me. I don't feel attached to people I don't have frequent contact with usually several times a week. I have had very close relationships with coworkers I saw everyday and then when they have changed jobs it takes very little time for me to stop missing them and stop feeling like we have a relationship. If my husband is away from home for too long I can feel surprisingly detached when he comes home. I miss him for the first few days and then it is like I've forgotten the relationship we shared. It is part of the struggle I have with my T. I don't see him often enough to hold the connection (though this is better now that I see him twice a week) and I am confident that if I quit therapy I would find it really hard for the first week and then I think he would be gone.

Well that's enough about me. Thanks for letting us know how the session went.

Liese, good morning.

quote:

Have you talked to your T about the fact that you feel like you are losing the connection??

I did talk to her. It actually seems to just have happened after something happened with the PA (for a P that I haven't met) on 2/17. Somehow that incident got linked in with T, and then it got me triggered by my childhood and even adult times when I felt abandoned (I went back to read my journal and I had written a lot those days), and I had a bad reaction on 2/20. So the flight was in full force, and I told her that on 2/27. I told her that missing the session the previous week with her was no big deal (2/22) (she had cancelled to go to a seminar or something) and come the next Monday (2/27) I didn't even want to go in to see her. Somehow I keep going back, now, but I don't feel like I want to. I did say to her, "Maybe I don't need to come anymore, or maybe I'm avoiding something." Her response, "Maybe both." When she said that, I admit to you, I was sad that she doesn't think I need to go anymore.

I think I understand the "middle ground" you are talking about. I too have been working on that.