Hi Helle,
The situation you described, of someone physically bigger than you, with more power, leaning over you and touching you definitely sounds like it could be triggering. You're doing the hard part already in that you're staying with and noticing your feelings enough to understand that you're being triggered (which I believe to be the tougher part of the battle.)

I do understand what you're saying about your time being up and not being able to bring it up right then but may I make a few suggestions? I would carry a journal with you so that if it happens at the end like that, as soon as you get to your car write down everything you can remember, don't worry about it being too coherent or making sense, just write down as many of your sensations as possible before you can't remember them. Then at your next session, bring the journal with you, and explain to your T what happened and how you felt. In therapy is a safe place to look at how you're feeling and for you to learn how to handle when you do get triggered. It may be that your T needs to be more careful about when and how he touches you (for instance, in order for you to feel safe, it may be that you should always initiate any physical contact). But the important part is to look at even if it's a week later. And I often find when I am confused about something just the act of writing out how I feel without trying to censor it or make sense of it can really help me understand what's going on so much better.

AG

Helle,
I felt tormented for 3 days that followed my recent session and only on Friday it leveled out. I wonder if I was triggered as well.
I'm fine now, I got back to my normal thinking about my T, repeating his name, talking to him in my thoughts, but the days that followed I felt so sad and lonely. I probably will be dying of fear while driving to my next session on Monday. I wish my T would bring it up himself on the next session, but if not I will try to be brave and follow AG's advise to bring it up and tell how I felt.
I wonder, that feeling that you had, does it stay for long or is it just a moment of feeling strange? Were you ok afterwards?

I think that in cases like this, contacting your T between sessions (phone/e-mail) to at least get it out there can be appropriate. I also agree with AG, get your feelings written out, whether or not you will bring it with you. The most important thing is to talk with your T about it and process it, even if you don't have any explanations to go with your feelings.

During our sessions, my T will come sit next to me for the last 10-15 minutes of our session and we wrap up. This helps me "cool down" so I leave feeling calmer. I have trouble asking for things, so I pretty much had to ask each session for him to come sit next to me. A couple of weeks ago, I was having a particularly tough time, I was falling apart and he needed me to pull it together. When the time came and I asked him to come sit next to me, he said something like "I will if you promise to be more assertive" -- which triggered something so badly that I shut down completely. I was sobbing and wouldn't react at all to him, even after he did move over to try and help me cool down. I was in such bad shape at the end of our time that he told me that he would be willing to talk to me again after he saw his 2 other patients.

That was a pretty extreme case though. Usually, I'll send him an e-mail and we'll talk briefly there and then more in-depth at our next session.

Thanks, I just got back from my T and it was not the best time I've ever had. Going to bed. I will respond, but not tongiht. And thanks for your input.

Hi Helle,
Sorry to hear you had a bad session, those can be really difficult to deal with. I hope you can come back and talk about it once you've had some rest.

AG

Here is a letter that I am thinking about sending to my T. He really didn't didn't trigger me- but no resonance either.

Dear PsyD,
This is what I’ve learned today- when I am stuck in session, and I don’t go in to process, I don’t hear you, and I get very little from our time together. (There is no limbic regulation)
I don’t know why I am sad- the child within is crying and I don’t know why.
When I said there are 2 rooms, the spiritual room and the psychological room and that they don’t touch, while in prayer, God said stay in the spiritual room.
I learned that I will really miss someone – she left today.
I learned that I would rather not see you than leave feeling worse than I did when I arrived.
I learned that my worth comes from God, not from man.
I learned that I am afraid of something, but I don’t know what it is? Do you?
I learned- I need to be more dependent on God and less on you.
Always, Hele

Yes Amazon, I think you were triggered somehow-

quote:

but the days that followed I felt so sad and lonely.

That is exactly how I feel now, though I am not sure it is becaues of him. I think I wanted (too much) him to help me and he couldn't - didn't, and I expected him to. Hense- more dependent on God and less on T. More in the spiritual room.

quote:

And I often find when I am confused about something just the act of writing out how I feel without trying to censor it or make sense of it can really help me understand what's going on so much better.

Thanks for this reminder. I usually do write stuff, but sending it is something I only sometimes do.
I know how I feel, but I don't know my struggle.
I alsays appreciate your kindness and support. Do you think I should send the letter I posted before this post?

Hi Heather (Z)
Thanks for this.

"The most important thing is to talk with your T about it and process it, even if you don't have any explanations to go with your feelings."

and I came to the same conclusion, but right now I am running from him- don't know why- he didn't do anything wrong- other than I felt worse when I left, and he really didn't seem to care. He says I work too hard- try too hard, I know it, but he didn't have to agree. If I try less (whatever that means) then I have to let things go- let people go. ( and my dearest friend in the world just moved across the country yesterday) sorry- rambling now. And I could use someone to hold me tightly because I feel like I am all loose ends.
When my girls were little, I used to tuck them tightly into bed, pressing the covers around them, and after their showers, I would wrap them tightly in a large towel and rock them on my lap and sing to them. Recently they reminded me of that and told me how important that was to them.
I feel so cold and alone, and I don't know what to do (no t though).
Time to put on the smiley face and get ready for my day. See ya. And thanks.

Hi All,

This is about the spiritual thing that happened, whereby I triggered my T, and he got angry with me.

After this happened, he called to apologize, I said I was sorry (but I did not know what I did, still don't) we sent a few txts, I wrote him a letter, then 2 1/2 weeks later we met to discuss what happened. Even though the discussion went well, our accounts of what was happening at the time of the big disconnect were completely different, and I don't understand what this means.
My T said that I said something that triggered the little boy in him, but he got angry while reading a letter I wrote to him about the teachings of Christ. These 2 accounts are not even close. So even though we both said that we'll work to grow from this, I am wondering grow from what? This is a disconnect that apparently neither of us understand. How do we grow from that?

I am an every other Monday person, so I will not see him until the third. My husband lost his teaching job Friday, so one of my responses was to call my T and tell him I can't see him because of financial reasons. (It was the panicy little girl in me that called) Well it is Sunday night, and no return call from him. I am not falling to pieces either. But I am wondering if the big disconnect is having the effect- we are not as attuned as I had once thought. Maybe he really does not care after all. I am disapointed- in a let down sort of way. Maybe this is the beginning of the end after all. It is not like him to not return a call. Maybe he really does not forgive the disconnect. I don't know how to get around this because if he knows why he got angry- he aint sayin.
I've since written him a letter explaining that the initial response to my husbands job loss was out of fear, and I am keeping my May 3rd appointment. He will get that letter tomorrow with an ins. check.
Any thought on this?

Hi Helle,
I think it's really good that you let your T know that you'd like to continue coming to therapy. (I'm very sorry about your husband's job, btw, I hope he can find another situation quickly.)

I think the fact that even after discussing this rupture, you still feels confused probably means that either one of you or both of you haven't really gotten to the bottom of what really happened and what triggered the disruption. And disruptions happen in EVERY relationship, even the really good attuned ones. So I think the fact that this happened does not mean that you've been misjudging the relationship.

I think you just need to go back and continue to share your feelings, including your confusion about what happened until you reach understanding. The restoration of the attunement is what allows you to feel safe again. I can hear your fear about what his not returning the call means, but we often make the mistake of jumping to the conclusion that a lack of response HAS to be about us while is could be something as simple as he left for the weekend and hasn't checked his messages. I would wait to talk to him first and check if he's still angry before assuming that's the reason (although let me be fully honest here and tell you I would be wondering the same stuff. It's always SO much clearer when it's someone else. ) Let us know how it goes!

AG

Thanks AG for your quick and heartfelt reply.

He doesn't have to check his messages, as he has given all of his clients his cell phone number.

I will eventually talk to him, but right now I feel like I never ever want to contact him again. I think he is still angry and HE is not being honest with me. How can you continue with a T like that.

He has been a T for a very long time, and I have the distinct pleasure of being the only person to make him angry, He told me this. I could get past this if I knew wat was going on, but I don't and he clearly either doesn't know or is not saying why he got angry with me.

For me- this triggers old shit.
I have only had one really best friend in my life- 7th- 10th grade. In 10th grade, suddenly she just stopped talking to me- told me our friendship was over, get all my stuff out of her locker, blah, blah, blah... I was devestated and confused, lonely and alone.
8 years later she contacts me. We talk- and she tells me that her druggie boyfriend at the time gave her an ultimatum, either she sever her friendship with me or they break up. I got the short straw, and it feels like this is happening all over again. I searched my soul- my being, I blamed myself for years, for what? Only to find out 8 years later that it was not about me. It hurts so badly- I can't do this again. I feel lost, and alone. If this is how it is to end- then none of it was worth it.

Oh Helle,
This sounds so painful and confusing. It's not fair that you are agonizing over all of it especially when you aren't even sure what to agonize over. And the fact that it is triggering you about an old friendship makes it even more tragic. I am so sorry. I hope you can get some answers from him and you can work toward repairing this.

Also, sorry about your H's job. Having experienced that myself, I know that is definitely not an easy thing.

(((helle)))

I am afraid to say the wrong hthin to you Helle, but I hear how lonely and confused you sound, and I wish I could offer some comfort. I really hope you and T can work out the problem that has happened. It sounds like it can be worked out, but I know, that is outside perspective. It must be scary to be in the middle of problem with your husbands job at the same time...everything crahsing down, feels like. Please keep us posted how it goes.
hugs,
BB

Monte,
Your post made me smile, because I know you are so right. I am doing all that you said. I am seriously relating to those gut feelings.
I am writing after a good swim, not so furious now. Notice I took out the last sentence. He isn't a coward, actually most of the time, he is very good at his job. It is just that when I am triggered- I am in the midst of the shit- (I guess this is true for all of us) and I don't see, perceive, things clearly.

quote:

And disruptions happen in EVERY relationship, even the really good attuned ones.

AG- I reread your post, and thanks for that reminder. Repairing relationships is new to me, and this is still raw, but I wont give up. I know in my heart that if we can get past this- things will be better. (IF)
What i don't understand is why is he making it about me?
He left a few messages saying things like-"It is ok if you are angry with me, and expressing the negative feelings... we will work on it for both of us." But I did not get angry at him, nor did I express any negative stuff... he did, and I cried and left. No that's not right- I said that I was sorry, then left, then cried.
Is this counter-transference stuff? All I did was apologize and leave. When we met to talk about it- his version of what happened was not accurate- I am sure of what happened. He said that he does not know the trigger for him. He was reading a letter that I wrote- about Christ's teachings. We have always known that our views were different regarding Christ, but we have always talked about it. This time was different, he was different. It all happened so fast right at the end of our session. Up until this point- we had a great talk. He read something I wrote- and said something like this is right wing crap- propaganda??? I said I was sorry, and he said- It is time to go. He had is back to me- looking out the window, again I said I am so sorry, and he said nothing. Then I left, numb. The crying came later.

quote:

Sometimes I think we over-analyse, speculate in the wrong direction, dissect the relationship to pieces, because it is so-o-o important to us.

Monte-overanalyzing is what I do best, and yes I am doing just that. Also I am lumping on the fact that he has not called- after I left him a voicemail on Friday that my husband lost his job. And I have to wait another entire agonizing week to talk to him.

Seablue and BB- thanks ever so much for your support, and BB you have a wonderful heart- don't ever be afraid to say the wrong thing. It is just crap that I have to work out.

I have a question - can anyone relate to this?

Sometimes at the end of a session I will get a hug from my T. For a long, long time I could feel absolutely nothing from his hug. We even talked about this. Months later after dealing with heavy trauma issues- the hug felt like giving a hug to a parent figure (my dad and I never hugged, but if we did, I can imagine the warm protective feeling would feel like that.
Here is the problem. Since our disconnect- which we are working out- (thank you to all of you for supporting me through this) I have not asked for a hug, but he has offered. The hugs have changed again into something much more powerful. Into something much more emotionally charged. I feel like I shoud say, " please don't touch me, because you don't understand what it is doing to me right now." I don't understand why this change has occured. Scary shit- can anyone relate? This really bothers me, It makes me feel guilty, ashamed of how I feel.

Hi Helle, I can sort of relate to how you are feeling. Touch has always been a big issue with me in my life and there are times when I'm in a bad place that I cannot bear to have anyone touch me. When I'm feeling hurt or in that self-hate mode or even anxious... I don't want any touch. My T and I do hug after most sessions but when there are disruptions in our relationship I tend to back away from them. He is very good at reading me and he follows my lead. There are times when I'm leaving that I will just extend my hand for a handshake which is my way to telling him we are okay but I need to keep my distance for now. He seems to get this. On the other hand, his hugs have always made me feel so protected and safe and touchable. He has taught me what safe touch is and that it never asks anything back and does not harm. It's a precious gift from him.

Beyond all of this...I think that the most important thing is that we do talk about it. So I would say if you have feelings about the hug one way or another you need to discuss it with your T. You want to tell him that he does not understand what it is doing to you now so that is what you should tell him. Especially since it bothers you so much.

The feelings that touch is evoking in you probably relates to how touch was used in your past... was it harmful or manipulative or demanded of you in any way? In my case, as a child when I was hurt no one ever soothed me and in fact the opposite was true... if I got hurt (cuts and scrapes or bruises) I got yelled at and so I learned to withdraw when I was in pain. So now when I'm in any kind of pain I do the same... I withdraw from others instead of allowing them to hold me and calm me down.

I know you are trying to work out a major disruption with your T... could it be that you want to withhold touch from him because you are still angry with him but it is too scary to go there? I am only guessing here so feel free to ignore my speculation. I do think, however, that these feeling are being evoked now but are coming from your past.

TN

quote:

You want to tell him that he does not understand what it is doing to you now so that is what you should tell him. Especially since it bothers you so much.

Hi TN,
Thanks for the information
First- I have been feeling a bit to exposed by my on-line name so I am changing it. Everyone will still know me by the picture. Sharing intimate stuff with the idea that someone could see it, has really been bothering me lately. My T once said that he might check out the site, but I told him that the page is set up to a Google search. When you log on with your name, an immediate search is started, and if it comes up that you are a therapist, an immediate alarm goes off, and you are shut out of the site. (except Shrink-lady of course) So I told him not to bother. He laughed and said that he doesn't have the time to do that anyway. I don't think he believed me.

Anyway- the touch. I don't know how to tell him. The feeling was so strong, and so different, that it took me by COMPLETE surprise. The change happened right in the middle of the hug. I was yelling-"Oh Shit, oh shit" in my head because they were erotic feelings. I left totally ashamed and embarrassed.

When I first started therapy and in dealing with the trauma, these feelings surfaced, but there were no hugs then. I have no idea what.... Wait a minute, yes I do.

I can't tell him this. The session before my last one- my T was wearing a button down shirt with a pull-over fleese. As I was taking my jacket off to hang it up- and offering to hang his too, I turned around to see him stuck in his fleese. His shirt was up around his armpits and his fleese was over his head and he was stuck, completely exposing his upper body. (I have seen him shirtless swimming at the Y, and this did not happen, though) I immediately turned away, thinking that this was incredibly funny, but also feeling a bit embarrassed for him. I made sure that I was turned away by the time he untangled himself. Truly it was quite funny. I wonder if this is what changeed things suddenly for me 2 weeks later. How do I share this? I can't.

quote:

if I got hurt (cuts and scrapes or bruises) I got yelled at and so I learned to withdraw when I was in pain.

Yes, this I can relate to very well. I had Rheumatic fever which showed up as severe joint pain- sometimes could not walk, but because sometimes overnight the pain would switch to a different joint, for years beginning as far back as I can remember, no one believed me. My pain caused major family disruption. I was not diagnosed until age 10. At this time I was hospitalized for almost a month (sheer torture) Then my physical activity was limited (another punnishment) with what seemed like forever, and was on daily medication until age 20, I never returned to the school I was going to, because the nuns treated my sister unjustly at the time, so never any closure there.
Cuts and bruises after that were rare. I was not allowed to have them. If I did I had to hide it because I was not supposed to run and play, just walk and sit, sit, sit.
If I did need medical attention for cuts... I got yelled at as you can imagine- for disobeying. I had forgotten this stuff. Maybe this is important to show my T. Thanks for triggering this memory.

I still don't know what to do about the other stuff. though.

Hello Mayo I haven’t replied in this thread because I don’t have any experience of touch in therapy (nor do I want it to tell the truth!) but wanted to post to comment on your name change (thought we had a new member there for a bit lol). I’m sorry you are feeling so exposed and hope that the name change will let you feel more comfortable posting - I’d hate it if you stopped.

Thanks lamplighter,

I will keep posting.

Going to be hard to call you Mayo now...but I will manage!! Cool new neame btw.

Mayo, it sounds so sad and I hope you can talk to your T about it. I don't have any experience of the touch in therapy since it is just IT medium we use, but I imagine if I ever was to even see my P in realtime I would probably faint. I would love it but I would faint. and if he ever touched me I think it would probably kill me on the spot. As things stand I don;t have any erotic transference with my P, more of a daddy thing, but those feelings are all kind of mixed up and similar for me for some reason I've never been able to figure out. Daddy and romance seems like the same thing to me. eek, I never told anybody that before, Mayo. yikes.

Ok, I have to go, but I hope you are ok..
BB

Actually BB that makes perfect sense to me.
My T explained a long time ago, that because of trauma, these wires can get crossed as they are very near each other in the neural connection sense.

quote:

it is just IT medium we use,

What is that?
I don't have touch therapy, or if I do, we never talked about that. He just sometimes gives me a hug after a session, but this last time the hug had different results. He does not know it, and I might have to tell him Normally his hug has the protector feel to it. This was hug gone awry.

Yea the name change- was feeling like I needed a bit more protection.

I hope you get things worked out with your T

Hi Mayo

I understand a bit about the name change, glad it feels more comfortable now.

Sorry that you were affected by your T's hug last sesion, I can imagine how tough that was. The hugs from my T feel supportive and affirming and have fortunately always felt fine and really heplful for me; I have learned that I can talk about the past and feel scared but that I am safe now, with myself and with her. That if I talk she will not hurt me. Does that make sense? It sounds crazy when I read it back - of course I know she won't hurt me, it just does't feel so obvious at those times. I don't know if I would feel the same level of complete comfort and ease if I had a male T. There is such a fine balance between something being ok and then suddenly not, isn't there? I guess I am historically always a bit more wary of male touch, because it had been the wrong touch for me in the past, but I know that is down to those difficulties. I really hope you can talk with him and sort it - those conversations are the hard ones, but usually the most important, especially if previous hugs have felt so comfortable.

starfish

I agree with Starfish...it is good always to talk, I guess. Wish I could take my own advice!

IT medium sounds weird now when I look at that! But it is simple, it just means we only use the internet to talk. I don't "see" him in real time, just on the computer. So I would freak out if I ever met him in real life I think. so fortunately I will never have to deal with the touch! But I don't think my P would ever touch me anyways, so it probably wouldn't be a problem. I don't know how you manage to talk to a "real person" so honestly, mayo, and I give you tons of credit for doing the hard stuff! I liked what you said in other thread, about reading what came up in the week to your T and dealing with that. Good idea and not selfish at all!

BB

quote:

I don't know if I would feel the same level of complete comfort and ease if I had a male T. There is such a fine balance between something being ok and then suddenly not, isn't there?

Exactly starfish! Maybe if my T were a woman, things would be different. This sort of thing has only happened once before with him, and I did talk to him about it, but I was new to therapy, and was not so invested in...(I want to say therapy, but "him" seems to complete the thought better. )

BB- how do you have atunement with your T if you don't see him? I did not even know that therapy could be done that way. How do you rehearse and repair relationships with someone you are not experiencing? I am not being critical- I just never heard of this. I guess attachment issues don't happen then.

Mayo

quote:

I did talk to him about it, but I was new to therapy, and was not so invested in...(I want to say therapy, but "him" seems to complete the thought better. )

I think 'therapy' and 'him' both complete your sentence Mayo - you have invested in both and so both are important and cause different difficulties maybe.

And Mayo, I too write what comes up for me in the week and tell my T. Often that stuff gives me the most insight as to where I am, so that's why I take several deep breaths and share it ....as I have to tomorrow, but have huge jitters for some reason tonight Far easier to encourage others to be brave . . .

starfish

You got that right, Starfish.
My best to you - for a great cleansing session tomorrow.

I have to wait another week, but I may call him to see if he can squeeze me in earlier. IDK

So much to talk about.

Thanks Mayo,
I hope it might be, though I always ask myself at this stage the night before just why I put myself through this?

starfish

Oh yes and well done for the bravery of asking for a squeeze in session - good luck with that Mayo.

starfish

I haven't done it yet.

We do it to get well.

night!

Mayo,
I'm quite curious how your next session is going to go.
Are you going to tell something about the hug and how it felt?
And seeing your therapist taking of his fleece... dear Lord, I don't know how I would possibly be able to think or look at him.
Let us know how it goes.
To be honest I don't know how to talk and deal in mt Ts presence with my own issues of.. ehem... erotic sort of feelings. So I'm looking for a clue as well.
But maybe... if I feel safer, if I learn how to trust more and if I believe that he really cares, the words will come?

Hi Amazon,

Yea- just thinking about the fleese episode really makes me laugh.

As far as the hug, I think I will set up a bit of an experiment. I need to see if it was the hug or his words while he gave me the hug. So for next Monday, a looooong week from today, if he gives me a hug and nothing happens, or if it is like the usual comfortable protective feeling, then I will know it was his words. But if it happpens again- thae same as last time- then I have to tell him no hugs.

As far as talking to my T- sometimes I am brave, but sometimes I am very shy, like last time. He needs to stop triggering the little girl.

I will let you know next week.

Hele

Maybe it is good to be this little girl with him.
Maybe she needs to be seen and heard as well. I don't know.

Oh, believe me, she has had her time Amazon. She is monopolizing the session, and I can't talk about anything that requires an intellect. I don't know how my T does it, but I will warn him and leave it up to him.

How are you doing?

Well, the little me has found out that it's real fun to try to annoy my T. So sometimes he announces something and I ask "Why?". He replies and I ask "why" again. It's kind of fun. Feels nice. The intellect rests.

Hey Amazon- you made me laugh. that hasn't happened, but I can imagine it.

I wonder wht he would do if I crawled up on his lap.

He better get control of this little tyke, cuz the more she trusts him- I could imagine that -that could happen.

Mayo, how was your session?
Did you manage to mention how you felt about the hug?

Not at all.

It was the worst session I ever had.
I had so much to talk about, but no attunement, no limbic resonance.
I txted after the session (this is the ballsy part of me- ) and told hi his words and actions did not match and which should i believe? Which should I trust? I asked him why he thinks i am strong when I don't feel strong. I feel sad and dismissed.

I feel terrible- not listened to at all, and that is so unlike him. When I shared some stuff- he seemed to respond with "pat" answers.ID the whole session was a waste, maybe it is me- maybe I expect too much. He kept bringing up me leaving- maybe that is what he wants. IDK I am so confused and he thinks I should be a psychologist, I know it is a compliment, but wtf?

Sorry i am just so sad. Maybe he can't help me. What was I thinking.

I never got to share anything I had written, none of it. I dont want to do this any more.
I did not ask for a hug and he did not offer one, and that never happens.
sometimes I feel like I don't belong here.
Aren't you sorry you asked?
thanks though, thanks for asking.
when i tried to share about the triggering part- me being Helle- he did not seem to get it. Maybe I gave him more credit than he deserves.
What do I do now? I no longer think he can help me- only God can.

Ok, so he is not the absolute worst therapist in the world, especially since he called me and we just talked about stuff. Nos specifically about the hug though. I am exhausted. Maybe tomorrow.

Oh Mayo I'm so sorry you had a terrible session. But I'm glad he called you - it sounds like that has gone some way to making you feel a bit better. I hope you can get the chance to talk to him properly about all this next session.

Sorry I'm rushing right now or I'd have said more in reply to your post. Just wishing you well.

Lamplighter

Mayo, the bad session, it must feel like the best thing in the world is lost.
But I don't think so. it's great he called, he must have sensed that too.
I hope it's just due to him not being at his best, but he still cares about you.
The thing about him bringing up you leaving - could it be that you talked about many other stuff, but you remembered this one the most? Or since it was raised already, he kept talking about it but not with the intention of suggesting you to go, but with the intention of talking it around and puting it behind since you are staying.

Just trying to say something comforting, but this was not your last session and you will get back on track.

My today's session was not the worst one, but no really deep emotions touched. We.. well, he moved in to his new office, so I have to get used to new place, to him sitting slightly closer (but a f...ng table between us), me seeing him better, his arms and so on... and him having a slightly closer look at me too

And he nearly bloody forgot to pat my back as I was leaving. I was already preparing myself to deal with this loss, but he did do that in the very last moment and very slightly.