Hi Frog,

I can understand why you would feel so hurt by this comment. Love is such a huge feeling especially in terms of our therapists love for us.

I believe your therapist is trying to say that he does love you as he loves all his long term patients. I am sure his intention wasn't to make you feel less special though I do feel he could perhaps have worded it differently. However I also think it is hard to fully understand the meaning in written communication and perhaps is not the best form for expressing such an important topic, though I have been there many times myself and I can understand it is a much safer way than in person.

I know this is all easy for me to say and I know that if I were in the same situation it would have affected me greatly too. I do think this is something you need to bring up with him in person so that he can explain what he means and you are able to see and hear his reaction.

I admire you for being brave enough to bring this up with him.



Butterfly

Hi frog
I think Butterfly has it right. Your T could have used better words, however every one is human and sometimes in an attempth to convey our thoughts and feelings everything gets a bit muddled up. From your T's point off view I think they just did not want you getting the wrong idea... thats what I think anyway. Mention it at your next session and till then hold on.
ND

Thank you so much guys! Writing this from my i-phone so will be back later to reply better. Just wanted to say thank you for your support and getting your view on this.
I am still feeling very sad and down and spent two hours crying over this, but hopefully things will feel a bit better tomorrow.
I realize that i've read T's text in the most negative way possibly-(that the text was his way of giving me a "polite rejection" hence to my hurting.
Will se him monday. I shall try to
not sink any lower now.
Thanks again- much appreaciated!

Having a hard time posting lately, but I randomly happened to be reading and felt like I could relate. My T always used to (still sometimes does) word his care for me as me "being loved" or "beloved" or "valued" and attaching it to how God feels about me, like he was just some sort of passive instrument with no investment in it. It put me off a bit, like it was just something automatic pressed upon him by the convergence of his faith and his work. It kept feeling really impersonal to me, like a prerequisite love for all humankind. We texted and talked about those feelings a lot and I came to understand that's not how it is for him. It is more like, he explained later, one cannot help caring deeply when you get so close to another person. And by virtue of getting so close and knowing someone so well, that love is actually more personal than many others. It is deep and real and true, and for my T, heavily informed by the love he receives from God and feels that God has for me too, which means that T feels a deep spiritual involvement in my growth, almost a spiritual parenthood in a way. When I realized what he meant by it (despite the fact that it might feel dangerous to him to use the L word directly, lest it be misunderstood), I realized it was a deeper sort of being known and cared for than pretty much all relationships I've had outside of my marriage. It's about the closest I'm going to get to having a loving, accepting, wiser other in my life. But, that said, both T and I have to acknowledge that it's not the same as what I was left stuck needing from my parents' failures.

Anyway, I think your T's use of "but" was unfortunate. Even removing that word and saying "as I love all my long-term clients," might have been better, because it would have been a statement about him more than about you. I think he means that he could not help caring deeply for someone he has worked with closely for a long time, like it is an automatic human response. But, it could also be that having a request for a statement of love, he felt, for his own professional security, to make it clear that it wasn't something that could be misinterpreted and get him into trouble. It's unfortunate, but they do have to worry about that. LY was once saying she was scared she was scary to T and he did confess something along the lines that any time you get close to another person, there is an element of risk, so even though she wasn't scary, everyone has feelings of ambivalence about closeness at times. For a therapist, it might focus more on professional risks than personal ones (since they tend to be in a position of power), but I'm assuming those risks can make it challenging to know the right way to discuss the topic. Maybe that's why it's easier to talk about "attachment" than using the word "love," which could have so many different interpretations to the person on the other end.

I think it's appropriate to talk to your T, if you feel you can, about how impersonal his statement feels. Like, he loves you as a category of person and not as an individual. My T and I did some really important work around that, and it turned out I felt that almost anyone who loved me felt the same way and even God. That people who loved me did so, because they were "good people" and "had to love everybody," not because there was anything in me that they enjoyed and found loveable. T was able to clarify the sense of connection he feels with me and other parts and it helped me to feel seen and known and loved in the context of that...which frankly terrified me even more than not being loved or loved impersonally, but there you are.

Aw, Frog. I'm sorry that his text was so hurtful. I can definitely see how it would be. That being said, the first thing that struck me is that you said you don't text often with him, and I'm sure this is exactly why. Reading text on a page (or a phone) can be so easily misinterpreted. And I do think he could have worded it a bit better. I hope you will talk to your T about this. It's very important and it shouldn't be understated or swept under the rug. You deserve to straighten this out with him so that the relationship is helpful, not hurtful. I'm sure that's the last thing your T would want.

Everyone has said some great things. I am super impressed / amazed / happy that he would write that he loves you as the L word can be misinterpreted so much - especially from a male T to a client. He must really have a lot of genuine care for you to say that.

I have realised how triggered and anxious I am reading texts and emails from T. I NEVER read it properly the first few times around. I always jump to conclusions, I always read things that are not there. I have learnt to try and not react until I read it about 4 times. I am terrible for doing that.

I am NOT saying that you did that at all - but saying that for me I need to be really careful that I don't misinterpret things. I always want to fly off the handle and be angry at her. When i calm down, i can usually eventually work out what triggered me to feel the reaction.

I have told her that getting her emails scares me......

"BUT". BUT is a terrible work. It really is. My T is trying to make me delete it from my vocabulary as it it too powerful and dangerous a word. She wants me to replace it with And or something else because. So yes an unfortunate use of the word from your T, but I can understand why he wrote it. Even though I am sure my T loves me - she says she cares for me and thinks of me often and I have known her a long time - I am sure it is a type of love - whenever she has to say something of this nature she always adds a sweeping statement about "all my clients" and I get thrown in there with the rest of the herd. Then i feel like a piece of worthless crap and just one of the crowd of numbers she sees.

Sometimes T's can say the perfect thing and then they need to STOP. Not speak. except they usually say something that negates the previous statement.

After writing this post - i need to bring this up with T.

I wish my T said she loved me.....

SD

(((Frog))) - First off, I don't think you are being a drama queen at all. I think its important. I agree with others about the wording. But I am wondering if he worded it that way on purpose. Like maybe he was afraid it would be wrong to just say "I love you" as in he "just loves you" and not his other patients?? I don't if that makes sense. I think he was letting you know he loves you but also trying to keep you and the relationship safe with some boundaries.
I hate texting. T and I had a texting tiff a few nights ago that left me in tears as well. We were originally texting about rescheduling an appointment. After we scheduled, she sent this "You okay?" I said "Yes, I'm ok." She said "Good. You will be ok because you are amazing." I texted back. "Right, amazing." (I was in fact just sort of comfirming what she has just said as in repeating it to myself to help me believe it) but since you can't hear tone in text, I guess she thought I was being sarcastic,so she texts back "Are you being sarcastic? And putting me down?..." - I felt like I had just got smacked. I was so confused at first and then I realized how my text must have looked to her, but I still didn't think it was the proper way for her to respond. I texted back "Wow. Not my intention at all. Clearly I should maybe be calling you instead of texting since it seems you misunderstood me and I would never put you down." She texted back "Which I know. I am just hoping that one day you will accept how I see you..as amazing". So...essentially she was trying to teach me a lesson with our little texting war b/c she thought I was disregarding her compliment. Anyway, my whole point is that I hate text b/c of that very thing. A message can be so easily mis-interpreted and it can cause hurt. I think its so wonderful that your T even told her he loves you! I would be scared to death to ask T that!
I hope that you are feeling better about it and that you get to talk to T about it soon.

Hi Frog,

I think it is great that your T has said he loves you!.

As others have mentioned I think the 'but' is just awareness and caution of professsional boundaries. Maybe it is also a way of saying that there are many different kinds of love- My love for my mother, my husband and my children are all different but no less real and important, just different.

Relax and enjoy the knowledge that your T has acknowledged that he does love you!

Starlight

Gosh- you people are really the best! Thank you each and one of you for the amazing support. Still no access to my computer and i have noe chance to reply properly with this i-phone.
Will be back later when i have time and space to sit down.
I am not feeling THAT crap today, and i know it's alot to so with reading your point of view about this text. Today i almost feel sorry for T that i put him in this position where i "push him" to say he loves me. I feel ashamed about it, and totally "exposed"(?) having asked so directly for his love.
my T is an old man and is not good with rexting at all, so i am quite sure he did think very carefully about What to answer my loaded request for love, and also i think that you're right suggesting that he was carefull about the boundaries. - That he did not want me to get it "wrong" thinking that he loves me MORE than his other patients... Anyway- thanks again dear folks!

So, i am finally back to reply properly to all you guys... It`s been a weird day, but here we go... (I haven`t written so much english for years… So, sorry if my post is all full of weird sentences and words!)


((((Butterfly)))) – thank you for being so understanding and for validating my feelings and my reaction. It makes me feel less sad to know that you read this message as T`s intention was not to make me feel less special. I, now, believe so too. Yeah- love really is “such a huge feeling” and especially T`s love for us. Actually I cant think of anything more vulnerable and bigger thing... Lol, I guess that`s says a lot about how deeply (lost?) involved I am in this transference thing with T.


((((nigeldaniel)))) Yeah- I believe Butterfly was right, too. It helped a lot to learn that you interpreted T`s message as him just “did not want you getting the wrong idea”. That explains his “but…” and I guess it also means that he really did not mean to “reduce” the love- message, only him being cautious. Yeah, sure T is human and I know I putted a lot of preassure on him to come up with a “good answer” to my text even though texting REALLY isn`t his thing at all.

Dear ((((dragggers))))) – thank you so much- yes indeed it`s painful to know that T cant love me the way I want. I am sorry you seem to suffor from the same realization yourself. Oh, you`re so right “love is love” and I should take it in and grasp that T actually did say he loves me and not question it so much. Oh, and I rather liked to hear that you admire T`s honesty, and seeing his text as him keeping his boundaries and the safety. I rather like THAT perspective, instead of my own. Thanks for sharing your heartfelt wisdom with me Draggers. I`m glad to know your T loves you, too.

((((anonymously)))) – So greatful that you would come out and post to this. Not sure if I am glad you can relate though. It was interesting reading about how you and your T have solved this, and how you slowly learned to realize how this love was to be understood. This made me happy (of course) “that love is actually more personal than many others. It is deep and real and true”. What you further said, made much sense: “But, it could also be that having a request for a statement of love, he felt, for his own professional security, to make it clear that it wasn't something that could be misinterpreted and get him into trouble. It's unfortunate, but they do have to worry about that.” They really do! I just wished he would know that I wouldn’t have “gotten it all wrong” if he just dropped the whole “but…” – sentence. It`s not like I would read that and go around thinking that he was in love with me, or that that his love for me was inappropriate.. Anyway: Would it really be harmful if his message DID make me feel a bit special? I can`t see how that would be a harmful thing.. Not really. Oh- I think maybe I should take your advice and talk to T about the “impersonal”- perspective thing… I think that`s spot on how I feel. That I am just one in a million (don’t know how of long-term patiens he got, because he`s been a psychoanalyst for almost 40 years, so I gather I am one in a thousand “patients he loves”) I should stop my rambling now. Thanks again for all you shared with me!

((((Kashley)))) Thank you for those words! You right – that this is the main reason I don’t like texting with T. I tend to misinterpret and get so upset over his messages and I think that`s why T doesn’t like texting either- he has no idea how his messages get`s interpreted, and I guess that`s scary for a T as well. I realize now that I actually managed to interpret his message as “I DON’T LOVE YOU”. Believe it or not, but that`s how the message made me feel, and of course I know (at least intellectually) that that`s not what T wanted me to “hear”. I will talk to T about it. Not sure how much more I dare to say and ask about this, and how much I dare to “push him to clearify” his message. It`s like I didn’t een had the right to ask him about this in first place, really. Thanks for your support, Kashely!

((((SomeDays)))) – lol, I see we`re in the same boat here. Both hence to the negative interpretations of our T`s text messages (“negative” is not even strong enough word here!) and hence to what our T`s will say… I hate that adding, too “all my clients”. That` saying would have hurt me big time, too. In fact T did use that phrase one time, and I had the same reaction as I did now. I am greatfull that you see T`s text so positive though. It helps a lot to know it could be read in a positive light as well. I`m trying to do that today. I guess you`re right also that it is quite impressive that he would write that (“I love you”) at all, hence to him being an old (strict psychoanalyst with strict boundaries and rarely self-disclosure and all that) male T, and me being a young woman. I guess he did feel that he said “a lot” by writing that to me, even taking a little risk?! Yeah- THIS: “Sometimes T's can say the perfect thing and then they need to STOP.” True, true, true. I wish you all the best with your bringing this up with your T. May it be a good conversation. Thank you, sweety!

((((kmay)))) – Oh- thanks for saying i`m not a drama queen. Lol, I am though, but glad everybody seem to understand where I come from anyway. I do think you are right about his choice of wording, at least I want to believe it, that makes sense that he would be afraid of me thinking that he “only” loves me, not his other patients and was seriously trying to keep the boundaries intact and the relationship safe. Your text- story with your T was a good example of how wrong and how twisted out intentions can become in sms`s. It`s ironic that good things, get twisted into something hurtful instead. Bleh… I shall never ever text about such vulnerable things with T. I will see him Monday, and allthough i am totally anxious about that meeting now, i hope seeing him will help a bit. PS: I WAS scared to death when I asked T about that. I am not that brave as it seems…

((((Starlight))))) How nice of you to say so! Indeed it is great that my T would say anything about it at all to me. Of course I didn`t even “see” that yesterday. Thanks for reminding me about it. I shall try to accept your saying “'but' is just awareness and caution of professsional boundaries.” It sure would help to think of it in these terms instead. Thanks for your support!

UPDATE:
I can`t say I am doing much better today, seemes like T`s "but..." and the my answer to him, has strucked me so hard for meny reasons. The rest of my sadness over this really is something that only T can help me with. Today I struggle more with guilt and sadness over the fact that I maybe crossed a line asking (rather pushing) T to answer my question, and I HAVE NO IDEA whether I hurt T when I wrote back at him the “your-love-is-not-good-enough-message”…
Who the heck am I to be angry and upset with T in the first place, for not confessing his love for me in a different way? I am ashamed and feel stupid. Want to dig a hole and stay there, really. Dont understand how i shall be able to look T in the eye, monday.

Thanks again folks!

Hi Frog - I don't think we've "met" before, so hello! and I'm really grateful you've talked about this on here.

I completely understand your response to your T's text, and your need to ask your T about the love thing and your fear about how your response has affected your T. And you're right -you'll only know when you ask him.

I don't know if you'll be interested in what happened to me a while ago, but it seemed relevant... My T has always been extremely clear on her boundaries and the boundaries of our relationship. We had been working together over a year before she used the word love in the context of how she felt about me - I was (well, am) pre-occupied about how important I am to her and whether or not she cares about me and when she said she felt "love" for me, I was shocked and she told me she was taking a risk saying it, because she was afraid it would be too difficult for me to hear, or accept.
My response (by text - because I could never have spoken to her about it) was that she couldn't mean that - who would love me? she didn't know me and she was just telling me what I wanted to hear.
My T said she was hurt that I didn't believe her but she understood why I didn't, that she would never tell me something just because I wanted to hear it unless it was also true and came from her heart... She said she would always tell me the truth.
I felt I'd broken our relationship - I didn't understand that someone could feel hurt but still want to be in a relationship, that hurt feelings went away and that my T is able to look after herself and her feelings.
The way we worked through this was a time of immense growth and deepening of our relationship. I do trust her to only say what she believes and I know that if I push her truth away, i need to tell her and she might fleetingly feel hurt but she will understand. And she knows her love isn't enough but that's ok because I need to grieve for what has been lost...and the more I get an idea of what love is, the more I see what I have missed out on.
So, it's a bit like being on a tightrope at the moment - letting myself feel loved just enough so I can risk feeling the sadness/anger/loss/grief/confusion a tiny bit.

I hope you'll be able to explore this with your T and that you know you're not alone in feeling shame and what you were asking for is one of the most natural and understandable things in the world - I'm sure your T will understand that. You are a person your T loves.

Perhaps this hasn't been at all relevant or helpful... but I hope you can be kind to yourself and things go ok when you next see your T.

Iris x

Hi Frog,

I am a bit late responding to this thread, but I felt like I needed to ponder it a bit first....

I do want to say that you are definately not a drama queen, and I think you are very courageous for bringing this up with your T.

This is the stuff therapy is made of, and also where the grief comes in. It's so diffficult to manuever through the emotions that come up when our relationship and our feelings about our T become the focus. Big Ouch!

My experience with my T is different, and when this came up with my T awhile back, she outright told me "No, I don't love you." while at the same time telling me that she was very open to discuss my feelings of love for her. So from my perspective, I see your T's response to you as positive, regardless of the "but", even though I understand, and know the pain you feel about that "but".

I also would say that talking to your T about this is what will ultimately give you the healing you need, and it might be painful at times, but your feeling better in the end is what it's all about...you're worth it!!

Blu

Hi Iris- so nice to meet you , thank you so much for sharing some of your story with me. I do relate a lot (obviously) to your saying that you were/ was: “pre-occupied about how important I am to her and whether or not she cares about me…” This basically sums up what my therapy has been about for soon 4 years now! It comes and goes just how intense it is, but this “focus” is always what`s on my mind and my heart. It`s really inspiring that you worked through it, and to learn that the work you did actually deepened your relationship afterwards. You do seem to be a very reflective person, and I think it proves you have a great strength having come to the point where you can say that your T`s love for you, isn`t “enough” because you need to grieve for what has been lost… As far as I understand you`ve come much “longer” (if I can out it that way) having accepted all “this”, than I have. I seem to accept this only in an intellectual way, in a grown up- way, but inside it`s something that still depends on, and life for, T`s love and even a part of me will refuse to accept that T`s love can`t fill me/heal me.Ugh, i dunno. It`s like I still hope that one day- T will say something, or do something, that will give me a sense of peace. – That his love is “enough”- and so I will feel complete. Not sure if that made sense at all. Thank you so much for validating my feelings. I will talk to T about this, some way or another, on Monday, just not sure how I should approach the topic. I know for sure he won`t bring it up, unless I do first.

Hello Blue- how nice of you to say I am courageous for bringing this up with T. Makes me feel tiny bit less stupid and ashamed of it. It`s really not the first time i`ve asked him about this though, I`ve basically been in love with T for 4 years, and due to my strong transference we`ve often discussed these love- feelings, and although it`s been about MY feelings for him all the way, he`s also been “one the spot” meny times when I have “pushed” him to say something about who I am to him, and what he sees in me etc.. Never really that direct as in yesterday`s message though.. Sorry, I am rambling. I loved this sentence: “This is the stuff therapy is made of, and also where the grief comes in”. This is so true! And a paradox, kind of. I am sorry to hear that your T did not respond the way you wanted though. It would have broken my heart for sure, if T said that to me. Hope you solved it somehow… Maybe your T would only say that to someone like her husband or something? I know meny people who would be very reserved about using that word, even with people they care deeply about, for a thousand various reasons.. Thanks, Blue, for “pondering” about this and offer some of your insight.

I am rather tired and confused now, tomorrow is going to be the “day before the day” when I meet T and I still don’t know how I should “tackle” this upcoming session, and how I should bring up this topic with T. I find myself imagine the conversation and hear myself saying something like “I don’t care anymore, whether you like/love me or not. I don’t want to care anymore, and I am sorry I asked. I don’t have the right to ask you, nor push you, and I want to “Kill” that huge part of me whom struggle some much for your love. Maybe we`re both better off, if I simply just leave the whole topic and start to deny these strong needs to pop up. ” In other words: I am afraid of confronting him, and then i tend to be passive-aggressive-hurt instead, in order to protect myself from more rejections. Something like that. Maybe i`ve changed my mind again tomorrow. I am a mess about it all right now. Sorry for writing so much about this. It`s just that it helps me to get it all out of my head, and out there.
Thank God for this place!

Frog I’m so sorry I’ve come to this thread so late, and you’ve already gotten loads of helpful and supportive replies too, but what the heck I’ll chip in as well

I’m really sorry your T’s text has thrown you so badly and I get why you’re thinking wth why am I reacting so much to something that you rationally think isn’t such a big deal. Only of course it is a big deal and I hope you are kind enough to yourself to acknowledge that and not beat yourself up about it

Sounds like you are going through a whole range of unpleasant and uncomfortable and also conflicting, emotions. From guilt and shame ('who am I to be angry and upset with T in the first place') to anger, to deep sorrow and pain. Not a good mix at the best of times. So no wonder you are all over the place with this.

Like the others I see the ‘but’ as a stupid choice of word on T’s part . Of all of the things going round and round in your head about this, I think his use of 'but' has to be the main thing to start talking to him about. At least as a starting point - because objectively, regardless of anything else, that's a very negative and back handed way of saying what should be a positive statement to someone. But of course, you know best what's going on for you and what you and can can't bring up in the session. I hope you do get to resolve this tomorrow though, if only so you get to feel better.

Wishing you all the best for tomorrow. Let us know how it goes?

Hugs to you (((((( Froggles ))))))

LL

Sorry to put this thread all up again! I just wanted to thank LL for your post, and give a little update as i have been to my session today.

(((((Lamps))))) Thanks darling for your support! You`re never too late - in fact i did go for your advice and went to my session determened to start talking about the sms, and the "But..." - thing right from the start.

We talked about the text the whole session actually, and T did explain why he wordet the text the way he did, and also said what he did NOT intend to make me feel by it. And he also said that i am special (contra what i felt he wrote in the text) and asked me lots of questions about how i felt about the wording in the text and what i expected/wanted to hear him say and so on. He tried to come up with an anology that even though i have siblings - and had to "share" my parents love with them, i still was special to my parents... I didn`t really want to go into that analogy, but i guess T has a point. Oh, and i also said that he only made me feel like "another face in the (patient) crowd" (hence to his text) and he replied that he doesn`t see this as a "crowd" at all.
Funny thing though, that T for the first time seem to think that all this "want to be- special-" thing of mine, is in fact a maternal transfernece going on... I have never ever event thought it would be possible to have a maternal transference with my (male T).
I`ll stop my rambling here. Thanks for reading!

Hello again Frog!

No need to apologize for writing on your own thread, and definitely no apologies for keeping it 'bumped' - the longer a thread goes on the more interesting it can get, so no worries ok?

Hey it sounds like you had a good session with T and lots of things got said that have not only set your mind at rest - a bit anyway - but given you more (positive) food for thought.

I was surprised to read that your T had really thought carefully about how to word his text - sounds almost like he overthought it and therefore it came across wrongly, not as he wanted it to sound to you. But at least you can rest assured that he DID think carefully about it and about what you had asked, and didn't just dash off some unthought out reply to you, but had taken very seriously what you wanted to know.

I do find that interesting too that he touched on the idea of your having maternal transference (yeah it does seem funny doesn't it, having transference of the opposite gender from that of one's T). Does it make sense to you? I would have thought that the wanting to be special could apply just as easily to a father as to a mother, but obviously he has seen something in you that makes him bring up the connection to maternal transference.

Anyway it's me who is rambling now . No obligation to reply further to this Frog, unless you want to - I'd hate you to keep writing just to be polite.

Glad you were able to talk all this out with T, and I hope you are feeling a whole lot better today.

Hugs to you ((((((((( Froggles ))))))))))

LL

Frog,

So glad you are continuing the conversation with your T. It sounds like things are getting a resolved a bit?

I guess I have to agree with Lamps that it would seem to me that you might want to feel special with either parent. In my case, my Dad was my attachment figure and so I know I had those feelings towards him.

He used the ole sibling analogy, eh? Having kids I get it but I'd still rather T love me best! LOL! My kids all are special in their own way and I do have a different relationship with each one.

Relax and enjoy drinks mate!! you have done a great job!!

Froglet! How you doin?