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Please be patient with me. It is not easy for me to post on a public forum but I need to press through the fear so I can learn to share more parts of myself and of my journey. Some of you might remember a little bit of my story but in summation, almost a year ago my T of four years suggested I join a DBT group. Since I could not afford to pay for individual therapy and DBT therapy group I stopped seeing my T. When I tried to return to see her it was difficult to get an appointment at the time I needed. After two follow-up sessions that had to do with the therapy group she fascilitated, she terminated me barely a warning. Initially, I did not handle myself very well and unfortunatly did not know how to make it about the past. Once I finally accepted the hand she dealt me I continued with DBT and went to see a pastoral counselor for a short time. I interviewed a few therapists and then ended me search in June when I found the T I am currently working with. Her personality is warm and inviting. She has a great smile and contagious laugh. I found myself captivated by what she had to say at each session but I began to notice that she was talking more than I. I thought about that and when she asked how I felt therapy was going I told her that I felt good about working with her but that I felt she filled the room with her presence and I found myself too interested in what she had to say and not focused on why it is I am coming to see her. She understood and at subsequent sessions I noticed that her demeanor changed and her personality was more demure. She graciously scheduled me near the end of the day because at that time of day I felt more relaxed and I think because she knew that was an issue with my former therapist. Things are going fine but we are starting to have issues. It feels like a game of tug-of-war that I don’t want to play but must if I want to get anywhere in therapy. There are a few other things I notice and until now did not have the words to address them. I plan to do that during my next session. One of the things is that she turns her back on me to pull paper off her desk or to write while saying “keep going, I am listening.” A little passive-aggression takes over and I stop talking and wait, usually. It bothers me enough to eliminate one of the T on my prospective lists after seeing her one time. I am willing to connect this ‘pain’ to feeling unimportant as a child and that I was a distraction or a burden to my parents. That loss isn’t a new revelation to me but making that connection in therapy is new for me. I know that I can make my requests and let my T know what she does that triggers me. My question is: how do I grieve this without making it about her?

My second question is related. One of my biggest fears is being left alone in my pain after sharing something I am afraid to share. She assures me I will not be alone but I can’t figure out how she can promise that for me because in the same conversation she tells me how her case load has increased and how she has many other responsibilities as the director of the clinic. On Sunday morning, sitting in church surrounded by people, I had an emotional flashback. Not wanting to draw attention or make a spectacle of myself I thought of everything I could do to distract myself from the urge to curl up under the pew and sob. With my DH help I made it through without giving in to the urge or sobbing in my seat. It was so hard. I tried all the tricks I could think of until I began to settle again. I even tried playing tic-tac-toe with myself on a notepad from my purse but that was far too easy as it didn't require enough concentration for it to be helpful. I learned a lot about what I need that day but it was really tough to get through it. I think it is funny to know that a psychologist acquaintance was sitting on the other side of me during the entire church service. Eeker

I called my T on Monday morning to ask for an extra session this week so that I could talk about what happened and the thoughts that were running through my mind but she didn’t return my call until Wednesday afternoon. By then, of course, the strong emotions has dissipated and I no longer felt in crisis unless I let those emotions come back to the surface but by then I started feeling reticent. She let me see her that afternoon, in place of my regular Thursday appointment (not in addition to it) and we talked about the coping skills I used to get through the strong emotions last Sunday. She celebrated the fact that I found what I needed inside of me to cope. Notice I didn’t say that I celebrated this ‘successful’ effort. I know that whatever tried surfacing was forced back inside…once again. I am not happy about that. If it must come out for me to heal then why must I endure stall tactics? I do know that if healing takes a lifetime then I am going to have to know how to distract and self-soothe myself for the unexpected triggers. So maybe that answers my second question. I am guessing the telling of the things that trigger is to make the triggers less dramatic or lose their power completely. Well last night, while talking with my DH about the emotional flashback I experienced on Sunday, I began to sob as I told him that no one knew how hard it was for me to hold myself together so not to disturb or be seen in distress by the people around me. When I say I began to sob I don’t mean that I wailed loudly and gnashed my teeth. No, it was as if my entire diaphragm heaved internally with each breath. That is the best way I can explain it. I have never felt this way or grieved so deeply in my life. When I regained my composure, I told him that I think my body had just released a little bit of what it needed to release last Sunday. Anyone have any idea where I go from here? Is it too much too hope that I am done with that piece?

deeplyrooted
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Hi Deeplyrooted,

Yes, I remember your story. It is good to hear from you again! Smiler I'm so glad you found a new T you can work with. Thanks for having the courage to post about this, there was a lot that resonated with me, and some of it I've been wondering, too.

I think it was extremely insightful of you to make the connection between how you felt about your T turning her back on you while you were talking (a fair complaint in its own right), and how it obviously triggered a much deeper pain, the one of being a burden to your parents.

How do you grieve it without making it about her? It sounds like you've already made a huge beginning on that, with the sobbing that was triggered the other night while you were telling your DH what it was like for you to have to remain invisible and alone.

Are you thinking that if you don't "grieve" in the company of your T, then it doesn't "count" as grief work? That is what I've been wondering about my own stuff. The kind of sobbing you describe - that was the kind of sobbing I did all throughout 2008 over the ex-BF. Your "heaving diaphragm" description sounds exactly like what I did - it was very quiet but VERY intense - does each sob seem to last forever? Like 30-45 seconds before you take another breath? I also noticed myself rocking back and forth...as if I were trying to soothe a small child. It was VERY weird, like no kind of crying I'd ever done before. And it very much felt like something huge that had been sitting in there for years and years was being purged. Eventually it dawned on me that this felt like grief. But this was before I found a T I really connected with.

By the time I found my current primary T, this kind of crying had abated. And I haven't really had to cry like that since...and I've told her, I wish so much I would have found her right away when I was first seeking therapy. Then I would have had some company, and an explanation of what was going on, instead of sitting by myself in a locked bathroom, wondering what the frick was wrong with me. But at least now I know what it was and have all kinds of validation about what was going on.

So it sounds like maybe both of us have done (are doing) "grief" work. It hasn't come up nice and neat within sessions, but maybe it doesn't have to. It would make sense that each of us would experience the triggers a bit differently, but the basic principles are the same. You seem to be recognizing what your sobbing really is about, and at the same time, acknowledging that your T really is being a bit rude and you need to bring that up, too. So I think, you are already doing what you asked how to do...you already are grieving your past, without making it about your T.

And as far as are you done yet...I don't know. I cried like that several times a week for about a year before it started tapering off. Now I think of him and there is a faint sadness...but not that "how could you leave me?" abandoned little girl feeling (knock on wood...I haven't seen him around since April, so I can afford to talk big Roll Eyes ). So it seems that all that crying really did serve a purpose, it really did do some good. And if it comes again, I think the important thing is to let it move through like before...and then take really good care of myself afterward.

I hope you can be kind to yourself about this, too. I love that your DH is so supportive of you and helps you through it. Have you told your T about all of this, or do you plan to?

Hugs,
SG
SG,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply and for your encouragement. It definitely sounds like “grief” work. I hadn’t thought about it but maybe I do think it doesn’t count if I it does not happen in session, although I will work hard in between session so maybe I know all of it will count.

You compliment my insight to making a connection and I need to see that insight as progress. It is easy to beat myself up for taking so long to understand this. In reality, I spent so much time in therapy insisting that I do not remember anything from my childhood and therefore unable to make these connections. The signs were there all along and I couldn’t see it or wouldn’t see it. I am so ashamed and embarrassed and disgusted at myself right now. Why didn’t my ex-T take the time to show it to me a long time ago? If I hear it was because I was not ready to see it I think I will scream a cuss word. She accused me of making it about her and not about the past. How in the heck do I make something she is doing about the past if I am unable to make the connections? I have wasted so much time and money and effort and I feel so stupid!
I would pick and choose what I could read on here for quite a while because of how easily triggered I am and here I am, triggered by this reality. I don’t know what to do with it now. The past is the past. Does this mean I have to go through all the same crap in order to bring up what it is I missed with the ex T? II don’t get it.

I think you misunderstood the reason for sobbing although I think your description is exactly what I was trying to explain. Yes, each sob has length and depth and it takes nearly a minute before I can stop to take a breath. It came upon me while sharing how I felt no one knew of the pain I was in and how difficult it was to endure and remain composed while sitting in the pew. It came from that place not the place when my T turns her back on me. That feeling is more of an irritation in the present but if I turn and let it touch the ignored little girl inside of me then the hurt is deeper. I don’t know how to make that little girl pain about the past and not about the T who is sitting in the room and to whom I must speak about it. I need to take a deep breath or two and see if my little girl will speak and let her know how it feels when she turns her back on me. The adult part is such a critic. How silly to feel dismissed because someone cannot keep their eyes on me. That is the mature way to think so that is what I tell myself I must do regardless of how I feel about it. I did tell my T a little bit about what happened last Sunday but would not let my emotions join me in the telling. I will save them until I feel comfortable or safe with her again.

I am sorry you didn’t have a T during that difficult season of grief. You say that you understand now what was going on. As I am writing I am beginning to wonder if that is where I am at. I spent so much time angry at my ex-T and unable to make the connections-hence the rant in the last paragraph. I didn’t grieve what I was supposed to grieve. I mean, my mind was not thinking of the past when I was angry or grieving. Now, what?

I can’t make sense of all this like the rest of you. I want to do it right and I can’t. I want to make the connections, grieve and BE DONE with all the pain so I can go have a life but I can’t have a life until I know who I am, why I am, where I came from, what I am, and what it is I am her! Confused
What good is it to cry if I don’t know what to attach the tears to so that they actually DO something! Mad I am willing to sit with it until it passes but I don't now what "it" is. If anyone sees what I cannot see here, please tell me. If not,thanks for listening even if you have nothing to say. I will make myself try to take in the idea that someone is listening and I am not alone in an attempt to assuage my worst fears.

I know I just let you watch me deteriorate before your eyes. I'm sorry, I am just so frustrated right now.

deeplyrooted
I ate some chocolate muffins with a cup of milk then took a shower. While in the shower I made the connection of how my ex-T did not help me to understand myself to how my parents neglected me and did not make the efforts to explain things to me. Aside from the verbal and sexual abuse, my parents didn’t treat me as a person with dignity. They didn’t treat me as if I had a clue about anything. They told me what to think and how to feel about them. I had no mind or life of my own. I was too busy as a child serving them and their needs. That is what counseling has stirred up for me. The fact that I can be so concerned about doing it right (pleasing the unseen parent in the room) that I don’t know who I am underneath that mask. I realize that my anger at not getting this from my ex-T (valid or not) is a thread to what I did not receive from my parents while growing up.

Through the years, I would hear my ex-T say that as children we think we are the center of the universe and I would think or say, I know that but I am not a child and I know that I am not the center of the universe. I took the comment as an accusation. Every time that my ex-T would make that comment I would feel like I was accused of expecting something I should not expect. What I did not connect with my feelings in the present is the wounded child part of me. Sadly, I wasted a lot of time deflecting the arrows to save face and avoid the pain. It’s too bad she (or I) didn’t help give my child permission to be seen or heard. The child part of me is wounded from abuse and neglect and she is the one who needs to find her voice; or, does the adult me need to speak for her? No wonder I didn't get it! Roll Eyes

I think it's time to change my tag line!

deeplyrooted
deeplyrooted

I understand what you wrote completely..we are so quick to deflect those arrows as our self defense. DR I am painfully learning that the child part is the one that needs to find her voice and be heard, for me, the adult me isn't capable of speaking that hurt in its entirity. It's taken me years to come to a place where I can see that and the path of speaking out is painful - but there is a sense of relief when those words are spoken and those wounds that cut so deep are acknwledged for the first time.

I hope this makes sense, be gentle with yourself,

((((deeplyrooted)))

starfish
quote:
I can’t make sense of all this like the rest of you. I want to do it right and I can’t. I want to make the connections, grieve and BE DONE with all the pain so I can go have a life but I can’t have a life until I know who I am, why I am, where I came from, what I am, and what it is I am her!

((((((((((deeplyrooted)))))))))) It is so funny and strange...when I read your posts, you DO seem to be doing it "right"...you are DOING it...you ARE making the connections. And I can see the same thing in each person's posts, but I can't see it in my own. I can't tell where I am in the moment...maybe it is not possible to make sense of our own stuff while we are in it. Maybe that is why we need each other, so we can say "You are doing great! How am I doing?" I think what makes it so hard is that we're trying to see things we didn't see before, so it can feel so unfamiliar and unexpected. But I think you are doing exactly what you need to...as far as I can see, anyway. Smiler

You ask why didn't your ex-T take the time to show this to you? Probably because she couldn't see it. I hope you can stop being so hard on yourself...this is really hard work and a lot of people don't do it, I think.
quote:
That feeling is more of an irritation in the present but if I turn and let it touch the ignored little girl inside of me then the hurt is deeper.

This IS how I understood the reason for your sobbing...that the relatively minor irritation of your T not looking at you touched the deeper hurt of the ignored little girl inside, and the sobbing came from that little girl place. Is that correct? Sorry if something I said earlier came across kind of jumbled up. Big Grin

The rest of your quote above reminds me of something AG has said, that she couldn't go forward until she went back to her past to get something she'd been missing. Only she put it a lot more eloquently. Big Grin
quote:
What good is it to cry if I don’t know what to attach the tears to so that they actually DO something!

DR, your tears ARE actually doing something, even though you can't tell what it is right now. You went through some really hard stuff as a kid. I'm sorry your parents were so cruel as to treat you without dignity. You deserved more than that, and I can see why the way your ex-T might have reminded you of that. I fight exactly the same tendency to want to do the therapy RIGHT so that I don't get sent away...in fact right at the moment, I am not sure I can go back to my couples T at all because I feel like I've screwed up so badly. And I've also been trying to tell him, the progress he's seeing is more about wanting to please him than it is about real progress. So if you can, try to take the word of people here who have been through this...maybe that can give you enough faith and keep you from being too hard on yourself. All those tears I cried, I didn't know why I was doing it at the time...I can only give you an explanation with LOTS of hindsight and all the help I've found here and in therapy. You don't sound like you are deteriorating, and there is nothing to apologize for. Although I'm sorry this hurts so much right now. Frowner Frowner Frowner I'm really glad you're here talking!! Big Grin
quote:
Through the years, I would hear my ex-T say that as children we think we are the center of the universe and I would think or say, I know that but I am not a child and I know that I am not the center of the universe. I took the comment as an accusation. Every time that my ex-T would make that comment I would feel like I was accused of expecting something I should not expect.

Oh, WOW...you and I have a LOT in common. That is EXACTLY how I would have taken that statement too, as an accusation. My primary T has pointed this out to me on several occasions, that I take things she says sometimes very personally, as being "scolded", when that's not how she means it. I have SUCH a hard time with hearing things that way...if I can ever stop doing that, I would really love to hear what's really being said. I think it would be a relief.

Big hugs to you DR...again, FWIW and IMO, you are doing a lot of really important and hard and deep work. It will be worth it in the end. You are worth it...and so is that little girl inside you. Big Grin Wink Smiler

SG
Hi, DR...I know how hard it can be to post, and how easy it is to get hurt here...please know that if I have ever said anything that hurt you or made you feel alone, it was completely unintentional...not that I am saying that I think, or you think I did...it's just that I understand how that can happen, and how hurtful it is, even if the person didn't get it...so I just wanted to say, please forgive me if I have ever been a clod Frowner...and good for you for reaching out, in spite of the potential for hurt and triggers that is so rampant for all of us here.

I just wanted to say, that I am going through similar to you...I am dealing, I guess I've finally figured out, with constant triggering from my T. Sometimes I am convinced he is doing it on purpose, to "help" me tap into that grief that must still be lurking residue of all the neglect and abuse, I don't always even remember. I know your situation is different than mine...but I wanted to share a bit of mine with you, in case it will help.

Hm, but I don't want to trigger you in the process...so how can I tell you...let's just say, you are at a checkout line...and you are waiting for your change but the cashier will not give it to you for some reason. You ask, even though it is really hard to ask, and she just ignores you. Eventually you walk away in frustration without your change. the next time you go to that store the same thing happens...and again, and again. Sometimes the cashier is kind and friendly, but still refused to give you the change. Other times, she is downright dismissive and cold. Eventually you are either going to stand up to that cashier in a serious way, yet perhaps...*for me, anyway,* (not neccessarily for you...you may need to get into anger with your T, I don't really know...) without anger as a defense- after many attempts- or you will lose a lot of change...this is kind of how it plays out for me in T. It's taken me a year and a half, just to figure out that I'm being seriously triggered by my T. Sometimes I think he is baiting me, trying to get me to conftont past situations that have been re-created in the present moment in our therapy...???...but I don't know for sure. Now I have to figure out what to do with that information...that I am triggered in T. I think that will take me a lot longer. It's just slow going. It down't make me slow, or stupid, it just makes the process very difficult and confusing and a very windy path.

The other thing I wanted to say, is that the grief you may feel from the triggers your T does, (whether intentionally or accidentally...) is probably (huge disclaimer-just my thoughts, I don't really know for sure, everyone is different, but I suspect) it's probably the very same grief. I think for me it IS the old grief...played out in the present moment. So in grieving it in T and with your T, even though she is the "instigator," so to speak, you will probably be unkowingly grieving the past...in the present moment. I don't really know how to make my present grief, which is truly, only about my T, about the past. My present grief, is my present grief...about my T...but it must connect somehow to the past, although not in my memory...but in my emotions. And in grieving my T, the stuff that hurts me in T, and so on... it makes the grief...real. Because of my attachment to him. It makes it in the present moment. And that's probably why I avoid it so much of the time. Because it is real, the pain. But I think that's where it needs to go, for me, at least. Does any of this make any sense? I hope there might have been a it that is helpful, idk...but I don't want to trigger you, so I don't want to give any specific examples of how this seems to be playing out for me. I will say that I feel more "real" after entering into that grief that my T and only my T seems to be able to evoke. It's not fun. I hurt. Often I am almost incapacitated. that's how I can know, it must be about the past...although I do not remember. But I feel more "real" for lack of better word. But I don't feel "happy." what do you think? Is this at all helpful, or is your situation completely different?

Like SG...I am glad you are here talking. I hope you will find friendship and comfort in this place. I know I am always glad to see your posts- they are very thought provoking, and very deep. You are lovely.

Peace,

BB
Thank you SG, for your thoughtful reply and for offering such encouragement. It is true that what I am seeing is very unfamiliar to the truth I thought that I knew. I resist making the change for fear I am just seeing things.

I think it is good that you could tell your therapist that you are essentially performing for him and that you have not reached the root of the issues. I think it is so hard with T because we don't get to know what it is they are thinking or if we are working from the same page.

It is true, I am hard on myself. I don't always see it. I feel the pressure of a higher expectation all around me. It seems no matter which direction I look everyone else is handling life better than I am. I need to stop comparing myself and lighten up a bit. There now. More stuff I need to do to be better than I am. Obviously, I am not doing a very good job at appropriating grace for myself.

BB,
I can't think of a time when you said anything that hurt me. Even if you did I wouldn't hold it against you because I know that we are all struggling on here and when feeling vulnerable and hurting, we are easily triggered by the words or silence of other's. Sad to say, I feel like I am the worst offender when it comes to hurting other people. I struggle to find the time to keep up with what is happening on here. That is my own fault. I just do the best that I can and hope that what I have time to bring is helpful to someone. I hate that it is so hit and miss. Thanks for your concern and sensitivity.

Please don't worry about triggering me. If it happens I will try to work with it to learn something. Sometimes, if I am not in therapy, this is the only other place I can go to tap into something I need to process. So if it would be easier to share more details, feel free to do so.

I think you are saying that whatever grief we express in the current relationship with our T that grief is also about the past whether we know it consciously or not and expressing that grief will help us heal the past. If I am correct, then all I did is restate what I heard you saying. I can't say this mean that I understand it.

I am glad that you realize that you are not slow or stupid when the process takes longer than you want. I need to accept that about the process and stop thinking that I am stupid.

During my most recent session, I managed to tell my T without blushing or apologizing that I do not feel comfortable speaking when she is not looking at me. One small step for DR, one more step in the process!

Thanks for your encouragement. It helps a lot!

deeplyrooted

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