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I know I have not been around much lately. I've been dealing with a lot at work and the emotional exhaustion took it's toll and most days I'm barely awake long enough to eat dinner. I used to check in here when I was not busy but now I work intensely non-stop all day with barely a bathroom break so I lost that window of time to stop by now and then to catch up with you all. I do try to check my forums though to make sure all is well there. I'm sorry I have not responded on many of the threads that did interest me but I had no time or energy. I do hope that will be changing. Not that I will have time during the day but hopefully I can stay awake in the evenings to do some posting and reading. I do miss this place.

A quick catch up on therapy. We have had a lot of good sessions lately and only one that freaked me out when my T talked to me about at some point burning him out. This was in conjunction with him sort of scolding me about not taking in what he was offering me in the way of care, nurturing and support. He said my fear of asking for too much from him was going to have a paradoxical effect of eventually burning him out and pushing him further and further away from me than if I just took all and everything he could give me. He said it's only natural that it would be easier to offer his care and support to someone who takes all of it and feels "full" rather than to someone who only takes a small tiny taste and remains hungry all the time. We had a bit of back and forth over this but in the end I made the effort to take much more from him and it has turned out well for both of us. Of course during all this my abandonment terror kicked in and he got some emergency phone calls from me.

The focus of all our recent sessions have been to get me to be stronger and more able to stand up for myself at work and to ramp down some of my relentless anxiety. I had been taking Xanax just to get through the work day. I sat on the floor with him one session in total despair of ever being able to get through this. I only wanted to hide to disappeara to cease existing. I was crying all the time, having panic attacks and nightmares. I hated every minute at work and felt as if I had no skin. Everything hurt. I didn't want to talk to anyone. I hung onto T for dear life and he came through for me at each turn. He was always there.

During one session when I told him I didn't know what to do with his care because I felt as if I couldn't possibly deserve all that he gives to me he told me that "deserve" had nothing to do with it. That implies I had to "earn" his care in some way and that was wrong. He gives his care and nurture to me unconditionally. So there is nothing I can do to earn it... nor lose it. It is his to give me and it's given freely with no strings.

We always talk about attachment. It's the center theme of our work. And so he teases me about kicking and screaming while denying the attachment but he feels we are "nicely attached". He then asked me what I think about being attached... what does it mean to me. And I told him that we are connected. He said no, what is the other word for attachment? Again I said connection. He said well okay but there is another word... and so I quietly said "love". He smiled and said yes. We didn't pursue this further as time was actually over and I hated leaving him. Lately, I've been struggling with a bit of panic when I have to leave his office. I know this is attachment related as I'm feeling more comfort and security with him and it's hard to go back to the real (cruel) world. Again, when we spoke of this he told me to call or email him for that connection that will sustain me.

And so... this was my long-winded way of getting to the subject of love. I want to talk to my T about this in more depth. I have actually been feeling this overflow lately of warmth and deep affection for him. He is so good to me (and yes at times he pushes me really hard and I accuse him of beating me up LOL) but he has been my shining light and he still is. I do feel that I love him and I never thought it would be possible to ever feel this again for any T after the trauma of what oldT did to me. It's truly a miracle that I have this relationship and there is love in it. T tells me I have worked really hard to develop this relationship with him and he is proud of me. That is nice to hear.

So, I have been debating how to tell him this. He does not seem scared of that "L" word. He has brought it up himself at times saying that if therapy is done right then it's normal and natural for there to be love. But I'm still terrified of talking about it because I feel that I am somehow at fault for what happened with oldT because I worked so hard to make him care about me and then he got scared and abandoned me and ran. I also printed out those two blogs What a Shrink Thinks and the Burgos one where they talk about the love a T has for a patient and what it means and the significance of it. Of course, I would love to know how he feels about me too.

I told my T this and told him that I feel like if I keep all my feelings about him a secret then he won't know and won't have a reason to run away from me like oldT did. He just keeps telling me that he is NOT oldT. Yes, I do know that but it's still scares me. I thought about telling him at Christmas. Maybe giving him a card and telling him then. I just don't know. The more I think about it the more monumental it seems. They do say that the best Christmas gift of all is... love. Well, at least Hallmark says that Roll Eyes

And so... I'm open to any comments or suggestions on how to handle this. I feel like I need to tell him because it's sort of bursting out of me at this point. The silver lining to all the work hell has been that I feel closer than ever to my wonderful T and I just want him to know how I feel.

Thanks for reading. I have been thinking of some other stuff that I will post when I get a chance.

Hugs to all,
TN
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True North:

I can so relate when you say you feel that you have no skin. I understand the kind of pain that comes with that analogy.

You and your Therapist seem to be in sync and I think that is a wonderful thing! The fact that he even says the word Love is monumental as some Therapists seem to avoid it tremendously.

Have you thought of an ornament of some sort that would mean something to him...a reflection of how you feel towards him? A card is always great...sometimes the most powerful things are words from the heart!

Glad to see you back and that things are improving for you!

SmilerT.
Hi TN...

nice to hear from you, and I am so glad for you to have such a relationship. I think also that you're really brave and strong...I know about the pain you are tlaking about and yes it is hard...but you are really trying, so there at somepoint life will get easier...(I am also telling this to myself right now...)...

I think Christmas and a card or a letter to your T would be perfect! And he will really appreciate it, I am sure!

Hug
Hello TN, glad to hear that things are starting to get a little more under control for you on the work front, and that your T have been hugely supportive throughout. You’ve done a good job with your therapy there and it’s so good to hear you doing so well with him now, after all the trauma of oldT.

Once again I have no experience of the kinds of feelings for T you’re talking about so would just be talking through a hole in my head if I tried to comment on how to broach talking to a T about love. I like some of the other suggestions though, that maybe a card and a letter, a small gift of some sort, all of which would be the spur for your actually articulating your feelings for him.

Hope to see you around a bit more, but understand the pressure you’re under time and emotion wise. Good to hear things are getting better though, thanks for the update Smiler

LL
Hello TN,

It is wonderful to read this update from you. I have wondered how you have been doing. I'm very sorry things have been so difficult at work, but as always it is heartwarming and encouraging to read about your relationship with your T. I am glad that continues to go well.

quote:
He then asked me what I think about being attached... what does it mean to me. And I told him that we are connected. He said no, what is the other word for attachment? Again I said connection. He said well okay but there is another word... and so I quietly said "love". He smiled and said yes.


I got vicarious warm fuzzies reading this. Smiler I am highly subject to such when I read about things like that on here. Experiencing that affection and acceptance from a T can mean so much!

I have told my T that I love her. . . twice. Both times have been over email. I don't know if that is an idea that would work for you; I could understand it feeling like something of a cop out, but I was really surprised at how good it made me feel to say it all. It just happened to come most naturally over email.

The first time it happened was when I was in a pretty dark place emotionally, and I sat down to write to her about it. I just poured out all my dark feelings and vented and at the end of it, I felt such an overwhelm of affection for her-- knowing that she would read this, and care, and work with me so gently on it at our next session. Knowing that I wasn't really alone. At the end of the email (actually, I think I posted about this at the time) I impulsively wrote:

"Thanks for reading. Love you. I don't know if it's okay to say that, and probably I will be kicking myself for it in the morning, but you can always put it down to me being 'naive and inexperienced in relationships.' Smiler"

She had said that bit about me being naive at my last session, related to a different context, not my relationship with her. Anyway, in spite of what I said about anticipating regretting the "love you" I was really glad I had said it. I felt this sense of peace and lightness as I closed my lap top and prepared for sleep.

I was a little worried as my next session drew near. I felt a touch embarrassed and wondered if she would say anything about it. She didn't say anything, but she was as nice as usual, maybe a touch more so. At the end of my session she asked if "there was anything else I wanted to talk about." And I covered my face with a pillow and said, "Yes, I said I loved you at the end of one of my emails this week. I don't know if you noticed."

"I did" she said encouragingly.

"I just wanted to know if that was okay to say." I glanced up at her and her face said a million. She really looked very sincerely touched, pleased, and affectionate.

"Yes, it's okay." was all she said, but she was smiling reassuringly.

"So. . . it's okay if I say so sometimes, if feel like I need to or just want to? You know, sometimes you just want to say it."

"Yes," she said again simply. Then she went on to say some stuff about things she liked and appreciated about me, etc. But mostly because her manner was so open and affectionate, I took that to mean that she felt hemmed in by professional considerations from reciprocating with a "love you" of her own, but that she would have liked to have said so otherwise, and so was coming up with the closest approximation she could manage. That was okay with me.

The thing is, I really, really do believe T loves me. It could be I'm deluded and will experience a rude awakening someday, but for now, that is my honest perception. I feel like I can sense it so clearly in her manner of relating to me and in many things she says and does. It isn't strictly necessary that she say it.

The second time I told her I loved her was also in an email. It was after a slight spat. I started feeling irrationally worried that she would get mad and terminate me, so to reduce that anxiety and make a positive connection, I sent her a tongue and cheek list I had written-- "Top Ten Reasons Not to Terminate Me." LOL. Most of them were humorous, but the tenth one was simply, "I love you. . . "

Later she told me how much she liked and enjoyed that email, that she often thought my writing was so good and that I was very witty. Again, I took this effusiveness as an "I love you" substitute.

Anyway, that has just been my experience so far with the L word in therapy. I think it's nice to get it out there, if possible. It can help things feel less stiff and business like.
Hi TrueNorth

Likewise; I think it's wonderful that you have such a good relationship with your T. Like HiC said; it feels good to read things like this as I've been through the same thing with my T.

I can't remember the first time I told T I loved her, but it was quite early on in my therapy. I've always signed my e-mails to her "Love AV xxxx", although she will always respond with "kind regards, T" Frowner

Although I tell her pretty much every week that I love her; and in fact last week I even apologised to her for NOT telling her for a week or two LOL!, I've only ever asked her twice outright if she loves loves me. The first time she replied " I love all my clients"; and the second time after I said to her "you do love me really; but you're not allowed to say so, right?", she simply replied with "right!" That's good enough for me; I know my T does love me even though she's never likely to say those exact words.

Since your T has brought up the 'L' word himself and doesn't seem to have a problem with it; I would be very tempted to tell him face to face, as I did with my T. It was a truly liberating experience I found, and made our therapeutic relationship SO much stronger.

But if that's a step too far at the moment, a card sounds like a great idea. Just go for it TN; he already knows you love him, surely; so he'll be half expecting it anyway Big Grin

Good luck, and let us know how you get on...

AV
((TN))

My T and I have never "technically" had a discussion about love - it's been rather one-sided. Except it wasn't me discussing it - it was her. And she told me that she didn't know if I love her (thus taking me off the hook from answering, bless her), but that she loves me. And she went on to say that her encouraging me to branch out for support (relevant to our discussion at the time) was the greatest gift of love she could give me. So it's not just something you see on a Hallmark card. Smiler

Based on the conversation you had with your T and how he brought up the "L" word first, I know he will be so open to you sharing your feelings with him. And I think the most powerful way (albeit scary) would be to do it in person. That way you can get some sort of immediate response.

However, I am a huge hypocrite, because I haven't told my T I love her because I'm too scared (and I'm honestly unsure if what I'm feeling is love or just deep affection?). Anyway. However you decide to tell him, I feel very confident that he will respond in a wonderful way.

It's so good to hear from you, TN! Sorry work sucks, though

Talking about love in therapy, what a fascinating yet difficult topic! I don't have any advice for you myself, other than to say of course your T already knows you love him, so I suppose you don't have much to lose by saying so.

I have never directly told my T I love her, but I'm sure she knows I do. A few weeks ago I gave her something I made which was a piece of worn down glass from a river I like, with the words "where have you been all my life?" glued to it. I guess maybe I felt that captured my sentiments better than just "I love you." She accepted it very graciously and said she was glad to have met me, too.

I'm curious to hear what happens, so keep us posted Smiler
Thank you all for the responses. I definitely would want to do it in person and face to face because then I will be able to see his response as well as hear it... if he says anything. And if I just wrote it... let's say in an email... I know my T well enough to know that he would have me discuss it anyway (in person) and so that would never work LOL. He does not allow me to take the easy way out... ever!

The whole situation gets complicated because of oldT. I had deeply regretted not telling oldT in plain English how I felt about him and then he abandoned me. It took me a year to get a final meeting with him (my current T was invaluable in arranging that meeting) and it was there that I told oldT that I had loved him (past tense) and his response was that he didn't know that (not sure I believe that or if he was just really dense about me). And when I had that discussion with oldT my current T was there in the room with us listening. And so... somehow I feel like giving him my love is sort of giving him something "less than". It's hard to explain but it feels like something not as good and pure as that first therapy love that I developed. Or like I can just have this feeling or any T at all (even though I know how hard it was to get to this place and these feelings for current T).

Not sure if anyone can understand this. Perhaps those of you that have had more than one T would get how it's complicated by the old feelings and the results of being terminated and how that can be so confusing when the feelings begin to develop again with someone new.

Somewhere down in my rational being I know that my T would not be scared away by my feelings yet it seems so dangerous to express them because of my past. My past tells me when someone knows how I feel about them they leave me so I have to fight down those fears and try to move forward.

Thanks for the comments.
TN
((((TN))))

First, I want to say how nice it is to see you again. I've missed your presence around here very much.

quote:
I do feel that I love him and I never thought it would be possible to ever feel this again for any T after the trauma of what oldT did to me. It's truly a miracle that I have this relationship and there is love in it.


This is so great to hear. It was a mere 2 years ago when I became a member here and you, well, I don't have to tell you where you were two years ago. It could be a miracle but don't forget to give yourself a ton of credit for all the research you did on attachment, finding yourself a new T, everything that you've been through with him including confronting OldT, not to mention when things between you and your NewT got tough. You hung in there.

quote:
I feel like I need to tell him because it's sort of bursting out of me at this point.


I know what this feels like. My T isn't as open as yours about love and I often felt like I had to hide my feelings for him. I still haven't said the actual word but have talked about how I feel like I have to hide my feelings for him and how difficult that is. He hasn't told me that he loves me but told me that he was hoping I would feel "it" by the way he treats me and he is VERY good to me.

It's an awesome step in therapy, I think, to acknowledge the love feelings towards your therapist and not feel like you have to hide them either from yourself or your therapist and also to feel loved back. I think so much time in therapy can be wasted doing a dance around those feelings and retreating when they get too powerful. Heck, I don't know what love is but I'm grateful for my therapist. I'm also fond of him. How could I not be after all this time working together? Why should I have to hide it? Why should you have to hide it?

quote:
I thought about telling him at Christmas. Maybe giving him a card and telling him then.


That sounds like a great idea but make sure you do it early in the session because if you leave it to the end and don't get a chance to process it with him, you will probably freak after you leave and I'm assuming you will have to miss a session because of the holiday.
quote:
Somewhere down in my rational being I know that my T would not be scared away by my feelings yet it seems so dangerous to express them because of my past. My past tells me when someone knows how I feel about them they leave me so I have to fight down those fears and try to move forward.


Just one thought I had about this. You don't need to fight down the fears. Acknowledge them, honor them, talk about them, respect them, and when you are ready, move forward through them. But fighting them won't help them be any less, you know?
Hey Liese... we cross posted I guess LOL. I definitely would not leave it for session end. We will need to have time to talk it over. And yes I'm missing a session for the 2 holiday weeks Mad I will have at least one session though each week. And yeah, boy do I remember where I was 2 years ago.... in a really bad place. My T literally saved me. How could I not love him? He has tolerated so much from me and I was so angry at him instead of oldT.

BLT... I like your idea of not fighting the fear but looking at it and respecting it and working through it. My T would want me to do that and he will help me I know.

TN
(((TN))) I really feel for you. I love (note still present tense) my OldT too. You know she terminated without reason and one of the reasons that I can come up with is that she didn't want my love. That my love was wrong. That I was wrong. So for me to ever even think about telling another T that I love them, that is if I ever got to the point of feeling it....well I don't know if I could ever do that. You see for me I love OldT unconditionally, but when it comes to other people loving me, well I feel as if I have to do something to deserve their love.

I think it is great if you can send your T a card or letter, and it's even more WOW if he is willing to accept it. I'm not so sure when you start opening your heart up like that if you will be able to, or at least how difficult it will be for you to, remain within the "boundaries". I would personally find it really difficult. I find dealing with that attachment very difficult. I guess for me making that attachment known represents the possibility of being abandoned and rejected. Maybe I still have a lot further to go before I can get to that place where you are at. If I am to be entirely honest I don't think I will ever get there. Once bitten twice shy.

I do admire you though for coming this far.

B2W
(((TN))) I can so relate to just about everything you wrote. I have been trying to figure out how to word a post about love myself, and am SO glad you beat me to it!

I'm sorry work has been so chaotic (again, I am in a similarly yucky place work-wise!) and appreciate the therapy catch up. I'm back in the place where I cry my way to and from work, and would pay just about any amount of $$ to get a skin transplant, even better if they can throw in a brain transplant too.

I have had the "I'm afraid I'm going to burn you out" conversation a few times with my T, and I can appreciate the way your T clarified it:
quote:
He said it's only natural that it would be easier to offer his care and support to someone who takes all of it and feels "full" rather than to someone who only takes a small tiny taste and remains hungry all the time.

Very profound in my mind. I'd never have thought about it that way, as I am one how only takes the small tastes, and is always thirsting for more. Kinda sucks... but is much clearer the way your T described it.

I SO want to talk to my T about this love I have for her.... can't quite put my finger on it - it's not maternal, nor is it romantic, it just is. I just love her, plain and simple. I love how your T reminds you that he is NOT OldT. He is far from it. He's been so good for you, and to you, and I can understand your desire to put to words the feeling of love that you have for him.

I agree with the others that a card or ornament would be a nice way to express your love. I gave T a thank you card last year, thanking her for all the things that she does to help me. I signed it with a heart (cause I couldn't write the word!) I also think that AV and Kashley bring up a good point, too - you can feel Ts love for you, the same as he can feel it from you. He knows you love him.

Your love for T isn't less than in any way. The more we love, the more love we have to share with others. I can remember feeling so much love for one of my prior Ts. She hugged me and everything. But then things went WAY south, and I left because she was doing more damage than good. While I was working with her, I felt that I loved her (though I never told her.) Now, several years later, I have a clearer understanding of what went south in that therapeutic relationship. Do I still feel lovingly toward her? Yep. Do I like her anymore? Nope. Not a chance. I can't stand her and am in disbelief about the way she treated me. I can still love the good bits of her, though, the good memories, and hate the rest.

With that said... the love I have for my T is different than the love I hold for old T. I second what Liese said - 2 years ago... a lot has changed for you since then, and T has been there for all of it! He isn't going to leave you because you verbalize something he already knows. He's been with you through a lot, has seen you at your worst, and as the word love has bounced around already.... he's ready to follow the natural attachment that's developed.

PLEASE keep us posted.... I really want to get to the place where I can tell my T verbally (in session, preferably at the beginning, so we can discuss...) that I love her without getting physically sick over the idea. You give me hope!!

hugs to you ((((TN)))) and keep up the hard work!
I was wondering about this:

quote:
I have had the "I'm afraid I'm going to burn you out" conversation a few times with my T, and I can appreciate the way your T clarified it:
quote:
He said it's only natural that it would be easier to offer his care and support to someone who takes all of it and feels "full" rather than to someone who only takes a small tiny taste and remains hungry all the time.


R2G, you didn't tell us what your T said.

TN, Not trying to throw a wrench into all of this but I would feel just a tad bit hurt if my T told me I was going to burn him out and I'm wondering how you feel about it. It would make me feel like I have to be on "good" behavior and can't ask for reassurance when I need it. That there is something conditional about the relationship.

It also reminds me of what I read in a book about treating borderlines. That therapist said the borderline is going to want warmth but you have to tell them it's going to push you away if they ask for it a lot, or something like that. There was definitely the "push away" wording in there. Well, that's how the average person would feel in the real world but therapy is not the real world and there is nothing natural about therapy. It seems nuts to me that they would deny or withhold something unless it was done the "right" way the very thing they didn't get in childhood. It's just a pet peeve of mine. I've written about this before and no one has ever commented. I'd love to hear what other people think about it.

On the other hand, it's good to bring something to our attention that we are not aware we are doing. For instance, I had no idea I kept looking for signs that my T cared about me. One day, I think I asked him how he would know I trusted him and he said that I would stop looking for signs that he cared about me. So, I started to monitor my thoughts more and sure enough, yup I was doing exactly that and had no idea because it was so engrained in who I was.
quote:
It also reminds me of what I read in a book about treating borderlines. That therapist said the borderline is going to want warmth but you have to tell them it's going to push you away if they ask for it a lot, or something like that. There was definitely the "push away" wording in there. Well, that's how the average person would feel in the real world but therapy is not the real world and there is nothing natural about therapy. It seems nuts to me that they would deny or withhold something unless it was done the "right" way the very thing they didn't get in childhood.


Only have a sec Liese but the issue was that my T WAS offering me warmth, nurture, protection and care but I was the one rejecting it or only taking a teeny tiny bit of it because I was afraid to take too much because I either didn't deserve it, or it would disappear if I took it or that I would become so dependent and needy that I'd drive him away. He told me taking his support and care and nurture would make our relationship STRONGER and not drive him away but the opposite "could" occur if I constantly rejected what he was trying to give to me.

Hope that helps. It's sort of paradoxical.

TN
(((MONTE))))

quote:
The other day he spoke of love and care and how that needs to be in place for me to feel safe in this process..


That is just beautiful. We do need that to feel safe. It's true. Whoever thought they could separate the feelings out of therapy?

(((TN)))

My T and I had a similar discussion as you have had with your T but we switched roles. I told him that he was going to get tired of me constantly needing reassurance and he said he wasn't, that he would never tire of it. I told him I'd get tired of it if someone kept asking that of me. It was then that I had to ask myself what exactly would the man have to do to prove he cared so I could feel his care? What I might want would be unethical so I had to be satisfied with what he gave me. Wink

During another session, close in time to the above discussion, he told me he wasn't going to let me push him away. I didn't ask him how I was pushing him away and he didn't tell me but now after your thread, I can't help but wonder if he WAS feeling a bit pushed away because I was always threatening to leave every other minute? Who could maintain an emotional investment in someone like that? Maybe he was able to catch the transference and understand what was going on. I guess I'll never really know unless I ask him. Wink
quote:
My attitude is that if I love someone then I naturally want to remain in relationship with them.

this is where i struggle with therapy. i am currently on hiatus with therapy because of monetary reasons. i also think that on some level i cut it off for this reason. T started talking about not only my attachment to him, but to his attachment to me as well. he did not use the word love. i probably would have blacked out if he had Roll Eyes my past is sprinkled with betrayals, and i've said before that therapy feels like the ultimate betrayal. you open you life and heart to this person but you know it's not designed to last forever. it WILL end. it's like feeding candy to a baby and then one day saying "okay, time's up! you're done!" and snatching the sweets away from defensless baby. i don't want to rain on a good parade because i know there is value in therapy. but does anybody else struggle with this feeling like it's a big betrayal and the joke is on you? i'm sort of hoping i'm alone in this, but at the same time hoping somebody else shares this with me.

(((monte))) i've always enjoyed your posts and it's good to see you're still around.
quote:
In recent years I have been sharing with T in ways I have never shared with anybody before and receiving a type of attention I have never known. I don't want to lose that...don't want to 'get better' if it means losing that. I would rather feel bad and repeatedly feel how good it feels to be cared for.


Wow Monte the way you describe this suddenly it makes a ton of sense. I know people feel this way and often talk about it, but I’ve never really understood it before. Now I can see clearly where the dilemma lies.

And this:

quote:
T knows this and talks of walking a fine line, between helpful, healing care and the withholding of care to promote a certain type of growth. It's really hard.


Now I also understand the reasoning behind many Ts insistence on pushing the baby bird out of the nest type attitude. It must be really hard to walk that fine line your T talks about, and I suspect many, if not most Ts get it wrong a lot of the time Frowner.

Nice to see you back posting Monte, hope you stick around Smiler

LL
quote:
R2G, you didn't tell us what your T said.

Liese-
When this topic has come up, T has always said the same thing - that she can take care of herself, that she knows her own limits. She's also admitted her "weaker" areas in therapy, and therefore sent me to my dietitian (specialize in ED) since T is not experienced in ED. T also doesn't hesitate to tell me when she's frustrated with me. At first it really freaked me out, but now I for the most part what I do that frustrates her, and when I find myself stuck in that rut again, it always makes for great conversation.

Because of Ts honesty, I know that she DOES take care of herself, and that she does so so that she can best meet the needs of her clients. It helps me too that she holds very clear boundaries, so I know what she will be ok with (I can call whenever I want and leave a message) and what would not work for her (asking her to call back every single message, calling her emergency number for non-emergencies) as the boundaries are there for her comfort, as well as mine. For example, no matter how many times I call and leave a message (which I've actually done multiple times in a week many times, and multiple times in a day a few times) she's ok with it. I can't call too much. But if I were to ask for a call back every time (which is the only way she will call me back, if I specifically ask for it) then she'd have a problem with it.

Sorry, way off topic!


quote:
He told me taking his support and care and nurture would make our relationship STRONGER and not drive him away but the opposite "could" occur if I constantly rejected what he was trying to give to me.

Surprisingly, this makes a lot of sense to me TN. I'll admit that I think it was when I accepted my attachment to my T, that's when the fear of losing her dwindled away.

Outsider - that link you posted, unspoken, I've read many times over. It's somewhat reassuring in some ways, I think.

TN, I do hope that you are able to explore this with your T....
monte:
quote:
Therapy is just a means to an end

this kills me! it's like one person using another! sorry, i'm just really struggling with this right now. i know that's how it's "supposed" to be, but it seems so foreign to me. whatever.

monte, i sometimes wonder too, if i'm unconsciously intent at staying unwell because it garners this attention from him. one of my big fantasies is of being rescued. so, if i'm "worthy" of being rescued maybe somebody will indeed rescue me. i know it sounds sick, but that's my reality.
quote:
you open you life and heart to this person but you know it's not designed to last forever. it WILL end. it's like feeding candy to a baby and then one day saying "okay, time's up! you're done!" and snatching the sweets away from defensless baby.


I also felt this way earlier in my therapy.

I never worry about it any more and I will tell you why.

I've learned (from T herself) that for some people, even MOST people, therapy is something they do as a means to an end. They come in with a specific problem they want solved, their T helps them solve it, and they go on their way. They are not looking to do deeper work. They do not WANT and ongoing and meaningful relationship with a T. When they leave, they mostly forget about their T and their T mostly forgets about them.

For those client-T pairs who WANT to do deeper, more long term work, it's a different situation. They share something special together, and because of that they won't forget each other. The client might not come every week like they used to, but the relationship still endures in their hearts and memories.

I've gotten to the point in therapy where I can see when I will WANT to scale back on sessions to engage in other things in my life...to have more time to spend on making friends or being involved in my church or working or volunteering for causes I care about. I can't see a time however when I will ever forget about T or she will forget about me. And I will still be able to come back sometimes to check in, or drop her an email to say how I am doing. I think that's how it should be. A T shouldn't just vanish from your life if that has been a meaningful and longstanding relationship. You should be able to hold onto it and move forward.

I have an aunt who is very special to me, but I probably only talk to her every other month or so. And yet I could never say we don't still have a relationship. I don't need to talk to her every single day to know she is there and remembers me and cares about me. I think when you reach the end stages of therapy, it should feel the same way.

I hope that helped and didn't make it worse...
quote:
I've learned (from T herself) that for some people, even MOST people, therapy is something they do as a means to an end. They come in with a specific problem they want solved, their T helps them solve it, and they go on their way. They are not looking to do deeper work. They do not WANT and ongoing and meaningful relationship with a T. When they leave, they mostly forget about their T and their T mostly forgets about them.

For those client-T pairs who WANT to do deeper, more long term work, it's a different situation. They share something special together, and because of that they won't forget each other. The client might not come every week like they used to, but the relationship still endures in their hearts and memories.


This really nails it BLT. My T and I have talked about this very same thing. My T has worked hard to have me understand and accept that he will not terminate me but further... that our relationship will never really end. He says he still sees patients from 20 years ago. No, not every week but every so often when they want to check in, or re-fuel. These are the type of relationships that have gone long and deep and where there was attachment. This does not happen with most patients. Like you said, they come in for a specific issue and when it's solved they move along. They don't have a strong attachment to the T. They don't react to the T/patient relationship the way we do.

I have mostly stopped worrying over if and when the relationship will end. It likely never will, in the sense that T will always be a part of me and the things he has given me will always remain with me. And I also believe that even if T retires at some point, he will still welcome occassional emails to say hi. He is just that type of person/T. I know and am trying to accept that we will never be "friends" in the normal sense, but he will always care about me and when he looks at my gifts, he will think of me.

For those of us with deep injuries and who work so intensely with a T, the relationship does change both of us. It impacts both of us very profoundly and, even though it's hard to believe, I know that we will never be forgotten. I have to hold onto this or I would not be able to do the work and develop the trust and closeness necessary to do the work with my T.

Yeah, it sucks that they can't come over for Christmas dinner but then again, we do get the very best of them for the time we have together.

Hugs to all
TN
Hi All,

I can so relate to this. I am in the process of transitioning out of therapy and had a whole session devoted to "Why can't we be friends after therapy?" I fought with my therapist and even said "I'm not sure I want to be a therapist if my clients have to through so much pain!" He responded that it was for my own safety yet it still seems so one sided. Perhaps as I go through therapy school I will learn about why that is but for now I'm still with my therapist trying to work through the rejection and abandonment issues that I projected out once I DECIDED that it was time for me to leave therapy. Truth is our goals have been met and I'm feeling better than ever however I really am not intersted in letting my therapist go...He asked a pretty profound question "Are you having a hard time letting go of our relationship or what has happened in therapy?" To which I replied "I have nevr had anyone understand me and not leave me and that is what I will miss." I'm grateful that God used my therapist to help me through some deep pain and I'm praying that once the 2 year no-contact rule is finished somehow we can be colleagues in ministry
Lol Monte not at all! Maybe it's because I'm beginning to get a sense of it emotionally in myself now (imagining how it would feel to get the goodies I'm after and realizing that actually, THAT'S what matters to me more than anything, so I can sort of begin to understand how there would be a drive to stay feeling bad in order to continue getting those goodies...)

So seriously, I might talk like a big know-it-all Roll Eyes but I don't actually KNOW very much at all Frowner

LL

p.s. hope you do stick around. Am I being pushy enough yet Big Grin
((( BLT ))) and ((( TN ))) thank you both for your insight! this has given me alot to think about and even hope about. i read both of your replies days ago and wanted to respond then, but things get busy. indeed, things still are busy, but i really wanted you both to know that i read what you wrote and it has helped me alot come to terms with the feelings of betrayal in therapy. thank you both for your wisdom Cool

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