How Would You Feel? (UPDATE)

True NorthCo-moderator

How would you react?

I know I haven’t posted about my sessions for awhile. It has been an up and down few months. As some of you know, I was feeling very close to my T last fall, especially through November and December. He read me The Night Before Christmas (after I read it out loud the week before) and that worked out well. I also wrote him a letter as his Christmas gift telling him how I felt about our relationship and that I had come to love him. Things were okay for a few weeks after that. He was his same old self and we did some good work addressing some additional work issues (he was so great and supportive through the fall when I was having work difficulties), and also addressing some of my fears about telling him how I felt about him (I had freaked out a bit). I then took the crazy step of once again… trying to introduce the topic of touch in therapy. We didn’t make any progress on that at all and I felt I was not eloquent enough. I will write more about all of these topics and his responses another time because he did have some really relevant comments and insights into our relationship and my anxiety.

There have been two other dominating subjects: integration (soothing and calming the inner child who creates so much anxiety for me) and also… the ending of sessions. This has become a real troubling issue for us. For the past few weeks the ending of sessions has caused me a lot of pain and confusion and dissociation. He has ended more than once abruptly and to me it felt like I overstayed my welcome and did something wrong. I ended up placing an emergency call to him after one session because I got so scared.

And, oh yeah… his wife who has an office in his suite now and has not been around for a few months is back again. I hadn’t seen her in a while and believed that maybe she was not working on the days I was there. Wrong. It seems that she was off getting an additional “certification” for the work she does there (she’s not a T) and now is back again and further she appeared there on a Monday which I had considered my “safe” day as he told me she does not work on Monday. I saw her car on my way out and got a really bad delayed anxiety reaction and almost verging on panic because I didn’t know she was there and I did not “protect” myself. I was left unprotected (which is VERY triggering for me). And to make matters worse… at that session my T told me he could not see me on Monday 2/11 (today) and had to move me to Tuesday. Well, that night I had an awful dream that I showed up for a session and he told me that I am no longer allowed to have Monday sessions and he had cancelled all of them and I needed to leave. It was horrible and I had to place another ER call to him to sort this out. I am still unsettled about her being there. When I walked in last time she had a big sign up about some seminars she is giving and there was a box where you could drop in your email address to get her newsletter. The newsletter for February happens to feature a nice aphrodisiac dinner you can make!!! Yikes. Is this what she feeds him??? Too much information there!!

Okay so finally getting to the point…. Our session before last I tried to move closer and allow him into my world by talking about some parts of my life I never divulged to him before and that very few people know of. I began the discussion last Monday. It went well enough and he was being kind and interested. I did most of the talking but we ran out of time. He said we could finish the discussion on Thursday and he has some questions and insights and thoughts he would share with me. I felt okay because it seemed he was interested enough to take this up again on Thursday. But when I got thee on Thursday again wife was there and seeing her poster and newsletter just freaked me out and then I heard footsteps and thought it was her and got really anxious running into his office where I promptly knocked some papers on the floor (he was not in there yet). I was so anxious by the time he got there I was unable to speak at all.

So he launched into the whole usual spiel about attachment and our relationship and my anxiety and what causes it and that we are okay and on and on and I kept telling him I needed to finish what we began on Monday and he asked what that was. I got upset because it felt like he had NO clue as to what we discussed. And then he changed subject to my feelings about our relationship and oldT and what he did etc. He asked me what I felt about him (my T) and I told him that I felt attachment and love. He asked me what I thought HE felt about that and I said that he valued how I felt about him because he values our relationship. He said that was a good answer. But then I pleaded with him to finish our Monday conversation because it would be a long wait until Tuesday to take it up again.

Finally I just started talking about what I needed to say that I did not have time for on Monday. I was telling him about a traumatic episode involving my mom and I was explaining what she did when she discovered some things I had been doing (totally innocent stuff that pissed her off) and I said to him “and my mom found my things and she totally went ballistic and she…” and he cut me off and said “we have to stop here we are out of time”!!!!!!!!! I was stunned. I was about to tell him the most painful part of the whole episode and he stopped me cold. I must have looked shocked and he added… we can finish on Tuesday. THAT was what I was trying to avoid doing. He said to think of it as chapters in a book and we can get to the next chapter on Tuesday. I wanted to throw something at him. I was speechless and was fighting dissociation at that point. He tried to ground me and then reminded me that he would be away (he didn’t say where like he usually does) and that I could not page him.

So it felt like he disappeared on me into thin air, no ability to call him, and my words, my feelings were shattered into tiny pieces and left blowing around in the air. He did tell me to send him an email to let him know how I was processing the session. WTF… are you kidding? I did not email him I am too angry at him. (This also triggered me because something similar happened with oldT and when I emailed him he didn’t respond and when I followed up he got angry with me and that later led to his abandonment.) He knew he KNEW how I was struggling with session endings and he did the worst possible ending imaginable. This is why I have held back from talking to him about traumatic memories. There is not enough time. I am struggling with the 45 minutes I get. My sessions with old T were a full 60 minutes. In fact, I recently asked him for a double session to talk about something that I know I cannot do in 45 minutes and still leave there contained enough to return to work. He said he would let me know. That was over 2 weeks ago. He probably forgot. So I have had to make him disappear from my head all weekend to survive. I had to cut the attachment because of the pain it was causing me.

I see him tomorrow. I just don’t know what to do now. I have played a few scenarios in my head of what to say but I’m stuck and cannot decide the right thing to do. His cutting me off in mid sentence has now made me feel like I don’t want to talk to him about anything substantive or important. He made me feel like what I was saying was so unimportant. Is it worth keeping such a strict time boundary when a few more minutes would save 20 hours of trying to repair this?

Just wondering what you would do or how you would feel? I am struggling with a few things... his cutting me off, his way of ending sessions, my still unresolved feelings of anxiety about his wife being there now on Mondays, and the fact that once I told him how I feel about him he now is less kind to me.

Sorry this is so rambling. I’m not feeling really clear today.

Thanks,
TN

2/11/139:45 AM

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kashleyMember

Hey TN,

Well, the first thing that occurred to me is that he's distracted by something going on in his personal life. I don't know what that is, but I am very confident that the gaffs he's been making aren't about you. He sounds like he was just not tuned in to you and so he was unaware that what he was doing was/is hurting you.

I don't say that to minimize the pain of his actions - I would feel very hurt, too - but I just don't think it's about you. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but the only thing I can suggest is taking some time at the beginning and asking him about what's been going on lately, point out the ways that he's been "off" and see if you two can figure out what's been happening.

2/11/1310:14 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

Hi Kashley... thanks. I am just afraid it's because he knows now how I feel about him that it has put him off and made him skittish around me and that is causing issues in our relationship. It's my big fear because of what happened with oldT. I know he SAYS he values my love and attachment to him but I wonder if he is just saying that?

Maybe he just sucks at managing time. I feel like I need to bring in my own clock or set an alarm ten minutes before ending so I don't get cut off again.

TN

2/11/1310:22 AM

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kashleyMember

I totally get why and how you'd have a huge fear around how he feels about the relationship. I suspect, though, that he's known for a long time how you feel about him, even before you said anything explicitly. And he's been encouraging it. The same thing goes for my T, who, I'm sure, knew how I felt about her a long, long time before I figured it out and ultimately said something. What I'm saying is that if it was your relationship, your attachment and love for him, that was going to put him off, it would have happened a long time ago. That's why I feel so strongly that the way he's been acting isn't about you.

Although the time thing may certainly be bad time management. It is his responsibility to monitor the time, though...You shouldn't have to do that, and I would definitely have a frank talk with him before you decide that you need to be the one to manage the time.

2/11/1310:27 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

quote:
i got to the crunch in my story and then was told time was up.not sure i would bother going back to it myself out of pure stubbornness.

hi poppet... this is EXACTLY how I feel. I don't feel that I will want to finish this story for a very long time. I certainly will not go back to it tomorrow. Just the thought of doing that fills me with both fear and pain.

TN

2/11/1310:45 AM

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irisMember

I'm sorry you feel that things have got more difficult recently. But I think that it is sort of how the ebb and flow of therapy goes sometimes - and part of the stuff we work through.
The endings scenario resonated strongly with me - I really struggle with saying goodbye. I know it is to do with feeling "sent away", that there's never enough time or attention, that I'll have to somehow put muself together and manage alone for ages and wait for the next time slot allocated to me...
I finally flagged it up after a year of therapy and now my T handles them much better. She knows I need a 10 minutes heads up, to ask me if I want to start saying goodbye or whether I want to carry on, she asks if I am ready to say goodbye - I sometimes say no but still leave... She often holds my coat for me (this caring gesture makes me cry sometimes but I like it). I do still leave distressed or dissociated but she knows, acknowledges and works with that. Endings are important.
I hope you can discuss the issue with your T. I know how it feels to arrive at a session and be watching the clock tick down, dreading saying goodbye. (my T took down her clocks for a while and this stopped me checking so much and leaving her with the responsibility).
I hope I haven't gone on too much about what happens with me, I just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone and the issue can be addressed.

Hope your session goes better tomorrow x

2/11/1310:49 AM

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lieseMember

((((TN))))

I have those 45 minute sessions too and they are really hard. Often I can't get into the hard stuff until I settle down and start to feel comfortable again. It's almost like trust has to be reeastablished in EVERY session before I can delve right in. And then by the time we get to the hard stuff, the session is over.

It seems like he picked up on your fear last Thursday but wasn't quite sure what was causing it. He just went right into reassuring you. You were already upset about the wife and her presence being more obvious and then it snowballed with all the other stuff, the story you were telling him, the fact that he abuptly ended the session, the fact that you couldn't reach him while he was away, etc. etc.

Even though you wanted to talk about the story you were telling him, maybe you need to spend some more time discussing your feelings about his wife being there?

quote:
But I think that it is sort of how the ebb and flow of therapy goes sometimes - and part of the stuff we work through.

As we become more emotionally fluid, the time we lose when we get triggered will lessen. We will be able to swing back and forth from one state to another without getting stuck in one state for too long. It seems like you lost so much time because you are angry and that anger has to be dealt with and resolved.

Good luck tomorrow!! Let us know how it goes.

2/11/1312:00 PM

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greeneyesMember

TN
I'm a relative newbie here and don't know heaps about your personal history so I'm sorry if some of my comments are off base.

You mentioned you're doing a lot of work on soothing and integrating, that session endings are difficult and you've recently revealed your loving feelings to your T. On a personal note I find endings very hard and arranged to always get a 5min warning before my session finishes. Maybe you could draw a very firm boundary around this with your T.

Generally when our capacity for self soothing starts to develop, more intense thoughts and feelings begin to emerge from behind our defences. Session endings are an abandonment, and when this is a feature of one's history, the session time limits can become so difficult and painful. I suspect his wife being present is making that much harder - you are seeing who gets to be really close to him and really knows him in a way you never can.

So of course with the disappointment, hurt, jealousy, anger and abandonment you severed that attachment and lost the good sense of him. I don't necessarily agree with how he handled the session ending BUT I imagine there are some very good things he's done for you as well. Part of T is learning to tolerate the good and the bad while preserving a sense of love and ongoing connection. This took me years to learn and I still, lose it sometimes.

My T is very strict about session endings regardless of where I am. Sometimes I think I've raised difficult issues at the end to prove to myself that he isn't trustworthy or caring and I've felt overwhelmingly abandoned. Given what you've told him about your loving feelings, and if there is a history of abuse or trauma it's imperative he stays consistent so that you know when you're vulnerable, nothing will change between you in terms of the boundaries.

Hugs to you

2/11/131:04 PM

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yakusokuMember

TN - As I read, I was thinking the same thing kashley was. He seems just totally not tuned in right now. And being hurt, and scared, and angry, are all valid feelings, outside of the past precedents for those reactions in your own personal history. If it were me, I would have to skip going back to the story and work exclusively on, "These past few sessions, things have felt off and scary, because, _________." Even if somewhere inside you know there's not an intention to distress you or push you away and tell him so, it doesn't change the anxiety that something feels wrong and in the past that led to bad outcomes. Or the fear that perhaps something is off and he's not even aware of it. I sometimes wonder if my T, despite all insistence otherwise, harbors secret (even from himself) resentment and disgust toward working with me. Like I said, on one level, I know that's probably not true, but I have good reasons (again, past experience) to not just trust the image they present. I had two parents who needed to see themselves in a certain way which was very different from how they actually behaved. I was charged with maintaining those images, reflecting them back. Anyway, I guess I'm just saying I get why parts of you might be suspicious about what would seem like an illusion of care.

((((hugs)))) I hope you are able to talk to him tomorrow, not necessarily about the story you have started, but all the experiences in that room which have made it impossible to tell. Or, if that's even too much, why you're afraid to even share that. Sometimes I have to start at the beginning with is my T, which is, "I can't talk to you about anything, because I'm scared if I do, __________ will happen."

45 minutes is a huge challenge to do that sort of work during, though. For me, that's about the amount of time it takes for me to feel safe enough to start letting out vulnerable stuff. I have still yet to find a solution to the issue of opening up, sharing and containing quickly, especially when scared, hurt parts of ourselves are involved.

2/11/131:29 PM

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avoidantMember

(((TN)))

quote:
How Would You Feel?

In a nutshell; the same way you and everyone else who has replied would feel. Abandoned; unheared; unimportant and frustrated, and probably a lot more besides.

The way your T cut you off in mid sentence whilst you were in the midst of a difficult episode was both unprofessional and rude IMHO. Then to follow that by telling you he'd be uncontactable was adding insult to injury! I'd have been livid with that.

I've not suffered that with my T, but I have wanted to continue with something I was talking about the previous week on a number of occasions, and to be asked "remind me again, what was that?" is such a upsetting thing to hear. It's like "WTF!; I've been thinking about it every hour for the past week, and you can't even remember what it was?. Was it that unimportant to you?" I know logically that T has seen maybe 20 other clients in between and has had a week of dealing with her own private crap, and so to expect her to remember everything is unreasonable; but it still hurts.

As for ending sessions, I think no matter how gently it's done, there is always that feeling of being abandoned again for another week. I'm lucky in that my T has two clocks in her room; one she can see and one the client can see, so it's easy to pace a session. The first session in her new house, when the clients clock wasn't there, was hard. I had no idea of how much time was left and kept glancing at my watch which made ME feel bad; like I was saying 'come on T, I'm bored; I want to go home!!' At least my usual session time means I'm the last client of the day, so a prompt finish isn't as critical but it raised the nightmare situation on a couple of occasions of being smacked in the face by aspects of her private life.Another story perhaps, but it raises the same anxiety you have about your T's wife being there.

I hope you are able to talk to him today about how you felt at the end of your last session at least; even if you don't feel able to go back to the unfinished stuff. I'd want to bring that up right at the start of my next session.

2/12/134:43 AM

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sdMember

Hey Tn

Yep, your story has totally made me angry (on your behalf) and the way your T has acted isn't on.

1. The wife - that totally triggers me and I really understand and feel your anxiety. I dont think your T has EVER really understood the depths of it, I have always said that. It is absolutely rubbing it in your face about the newsletter. Honestly! This would be doing my head in.

2, The cutting you off business. Why is he doing that? He has always been so good and attentive. He sounds dismissive and rude and not like your T at all. TN you really have to take him to task about this - it is NOT acceptable. Not at all. He has done the wrong thing. He needs to apologise and step up.

3. Double sessions - this is really responsible of you to ask him and it is HIS job to follow through and not forget. You are doing a good thing in thinking ahead and trying to circumvent the end of session issues - especially knowing you have a big thing to talk about.

4. Chapter in a book? Nope - I am not accepting that. THat is a load of crap. He can do better than that too. Telling our stories is not like a chapter in a book.

He is distracted and not with the program and it would feel to me like he is taking me for granted.

With my BPD brain - I would cut him off or go crazy angry on him.

I really feel your distress TN, I would be feeling the same.

And on a bizarre side issue. Today I have had scenarios going through my head all day of YoungT being a client at my T's practice, that I turn up there and youngT is there as a client and I absolutely freak. It has sent me off on a crazy head day. Now I have to check in with T to reinforce that she is NOT allowed to take youngT on at all and if I ever saw her near her practice - she will never see me again.

Sometimes this weird old stuff bubbles to the surface and haunts us.

Hope it goes ok with T TN, what happened next?
Somedays

2/12/135:14 AM

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lieseMember

(((TN)))

I had this crazy thought that maybe things are on the rocks with his wife and hence the "no paging" thing and the pamphlets, etc., lying around the office. He'd probaby never tell you if that's the case. Hope today's session went okay.

2/12/1312:45 PM

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True NorthCo-moderator

Thank you all. So many good, insightful and thoughtful responses and comments. It's late and I'm exhausted so I will reply more tomorrow. Hello to greeneyes, Iris and Cat and AV to the thread and thanks to my old buddies, Liese, Somedays, Catalyst, Anon, poppet and Kashley. Your comments all mean the world to me.

Just popping in to say I had an okay session. Not great but I said my piece. T apologized for cutting me off, which he admitted but he said he told me this was too important to rush through and we needed more time. I never heard him say that which concerns me that I'm dissociating more lately. As soon as he said we have to STOP here I went deaf it seems.

I told him I was angry and why. We talked but it was tense. Tonight I'm scared that I destroyed things between us because I got angry. We talked about how I split him into all good or all bad and how I need to work on integrating him into both at the same time and to remember my past experiences with him to anchor me. What he does for me and how strong our relationship is. And how he would never want to hurt me.

I'll see him Thursday again. He said he was glad I didn't fire him. And he patted my arm when I left.

Maybe there is hope for us yet.

Thanks again
TN

2/12/138:39 PM

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incognitoMember

((TN))

I'm glad that you were able to get angry at your T and he could hear you and apologize. It sounds to me like he is still being his caring self and valuing your relationship. I struggle with responding to my as all good or all bad (mostly all bad for me) but I have seen improvements lately.

Last week my T didn't reply to my email and while the session before had gone well I was meeting with a psychiatrist from a trauma clinic for an assessment and I was very anxious. I kept expecting him to reply and then I realized he had left his office. I wrote him an email asking if he had received first email and he said yes and he had thought he replied but he guess he didn't. Sorry it was a busy day. I was surprised and hurt that he had "forgotten" me when I had to do something so difficult. You know me well enough to know that many times in the past that him not responding would have been an instant rupture, proof he didn't care about me and couldn't be trusted, and so on. This time I was hurt but I didn't think it was the end of our relationship. I knew he was absent-minded and busy and it wasn't proving anything. I didn't even feel the need to address in the next session because it really didn't bother me. I did tell him this week about how weird and unusual it was for me to react in this new way.

Sorry to hijack your thread but I wanted to share it with you because you have supported me often in the past and encouraged me to keep working through my feelings with my T. I believe whole-heartedly that there is hope for you and your T. I hope you will continue talking to him about how you feel and give you both a chance to work through all your feelings.

thinking of you

2/12/139:15 PM

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lieseMember

((((TN))))

I'm so glad it went okay. He sounds back to his old self.

2/13/137:28 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

By last night I was so worried that being angry with him had destroyed our relationship I ended up sending him an email. I told him how hard this relationship stuff was getting and that my disorganized attachment was really kicking in. Swinging from avoidant to anxious and sometimes feeling both at the same time. As I think about this it seems that I am anxious when I arrive and avoidant after I leave. Anyway I told him that the closer I get to him and the more I care about him the more dangerous it all seems and I want to run. I understand this on a cognitive level but my dumb amygdala is not cooperating very well. I also told him I was sorry if I hurt him.

It's so funny because I told him I wanted to ask him a question but by the time I finished and sent the email I realized I forgot to ask him the question LOL!

I got a really warm, reassuring response this morning. He told me that my anger was appropriate and it was not going to destroy the relationship and that we are good. He said that these things will make us closer and stronger and while he admits it's not fun... it will get us where we need to be. That working through mistakes brings us closer and then I will feel more secure. Then he said "and by the way, you did not make me mad at you". I had to laugh because he answered the question I forgot to ask him!

He apologized for not getting to the end of my story and he said we can do it tomorrow and he believes with further discussion he will better understand how this experience impacted me. Then he asked me to let him know if his email helped me. I like when he does that because then I feel that he really does care and he wants me to be okay. So I wrote back a short note saying that I felt reassured and calm now.

During our session yesterday I told him how I need him to listen better and that I needed to talk further about our previous session. I think the issue was that he didn't realize how important or urgent this conversation was for me. Mostly because the first part of the talk was pretty benign. That is how he saw it as a benign topic of something that I was interested in. I told him that was because I was leading up to something else that I never finished.

But there is another component that he missed out on and I could not even identify until last night. I needed to hear his comments or insights into the first part even though it was a benign topic because I am SO fearful of telling him anything at all about me that lets him in closer. The simple act of talking about myself felt very dangerous because in some way I made myself more vulnerable to him. It seems that talking about who I was BEFORE I was harmed so badly by oldT is difficult I think because I fear being judged by him. And because it was that person... that part of me... that got abandoned by oldT. It was that part of me and my history that oldT insisted was too much for him to handle and that I needed a "special" trauma T for it. I think that all of this previous experience preys in my unconscious and makes talking to T about my past even more terrifying.

Okay... so it helped to write all of this down and I need to tell T about it. Yeah he is back to being my rock again.

Thanks for listening
TN

2/13/139:34 AM

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Attachment GirlAdmin

(((TN))) You can see your amazing progress on how much shorter the cycle is from disruption to repair.

2/13/139:45 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

Hi AG... thanks for pointing this out to me. It still FEELS like the disruption is a long time but I know they get shorter. I think it's because of all the groundwork and foundation building I've already done with T. And let's not discount how responsive and predicatable he is. That really helps.

Thanks
TN

2/13/1312:34 PM

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kmayMember

TN,

I am glad that you and T worked it out and that you are feeling safe again. I have been reading, just not in a place to respond. You have always been so supportive to me and I am sorry I can't return the favor at the moment but I just wanted you to know I am reading and thinking about you.

2/13/138:54 PM

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greeneyesMember

Well done TN

2/14/1312:58 AM

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