OMG - I'm gonna dine out on this one for weeks!!
L
quote:To quote Freud, sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar.
AG
LOL...this is great...I used this one on my T. She didn't buy it...but she should have. It sure would have made her life easier.
Actually...at the time...it was "just a cigar" for me. My T wanted to take it to transference land...so I am going with it. I hate the fact that she had to destroy what could have been a very significant moment for us both. OK...so maybe she wasn't prepared for it...but do we wait another 18 years? Maybe so. hmmmm..... I'd like to use that slapper on her sometimes.
I've been toying with a bizarre idea lately. I've been trying to find a way to feel more connected to my T and am considering a prop. LOL....it's too weird for me to really go with, which is bizarre in itself, there isn't much that I consider too weird...but....
Anyway...I've been thinking about using a talking stick...or rope or chain...whatever. I wish I could come up with some image that does not have a negative connotation. hmmmm.....maybe I could decorate it with something ridiculous.
The idea is that she holds one end...and I hold the other thus creating a real world connection to her.
It comes from my experience with training dogs. Whatever I feel when I am training a dog travels directly down the leash...and the dog will pick it up in an instant. So I am very careful not to project anything I don't want the dog to react to. So I am always thinking...calm and confident...calm and assertive...friendly. This has helped me to be aware of my projections and control them. It's actually been invaluable in my relationships with people.
It isn't a very realistic idea since I sit about 10 feet away from her. I'm just trying to bridge a gap that I don't feel is good for me or that I need right now. I have done some pretty strange experiments with moving around the office...she finds this interesting...but I usually end up in the same chair...10 feet away. Sometimes I like to sit on the floor in front of the chair...but she has never done that with me. *chuckling...and thinking she doesn't want to play.*
I feel that she projects alot of personal space so I don't sit too close. I even feel it when I pass by her to leave. I feel our spaces colliding at that moment and it's not a great feeling. She even slides her chair back a bit when I pass. hmmmm.... weird.
I am quite certain this is not my projection...I don't maintain that kind of space with anyone else...none of my Drs. or other confidants project it or need it...so I really don't think it is mine.
So...you can imagine how much strength it took me to actually hug her. YIKES!!!
As you all know...I still haven't recovered from that experience.
Have I moved back to Denial? I don't know...there are not alot of vacancies there...I don't want to go back! Way too overcrowded there for me!
Any thoughts?SD
Hi 
I'm new here and jsut started to read the posts in all of the forums. There are certainly some interesting conversations going on.
I'm envious of the people here that are able to ask the T's for a hug, and receive one unconditionally. I am not a huggy person as a rule because I am afraid of getting close (emotionally) to people.
I am a difficult patient for my Psychiatrist because I have a great deal of trouble opening up to anyone, but when I have and it results in a minor breakdown, a hug would probably be helpful, and accepted from her. I have some transference issues with her, not sexual, but more of a motherly feeling because she listens and appears to care, which my mother never did.
So those of you getting hugs -- thats great!
I'm new here and jsut started to read the posts in all of the forums. There are certainly some interesting conversations going on.
I'm envious of the people here that are able to ask the T's for a hug, and receive one unconditionally. I am not a huggy person as a rule because I am afraid of getting close (emotionally) to people.
I am a difficult patient for my Psychiatrist because I have a great deal of trouble opening up to anyone, but when I have and it results in a minor breakdown, a hug would probably be helpful, and accepted from her. I have some transference issues with her, not sexual, but more of a motherly feeling because she listens and appears to care, which my mother never did.
So those of you getting hugs -- thats great!
T's should put this stuff on their business cards so we'll all know what to expect before we get sucked in with the transference, etc.
for example:
Your New T, LCSW
I hug & take calls between sessions
but don't email or disclose personal info
call for an appointment 123-456-7890
for example:
Your New T, LCSW
I hug & take calls between sessions
but don't email or disclose personal info
call for an appointment 123-456-7890
Good one River. Made me laugh - thanks!
River I agree!
I think that i couldnt work with a therapist that wasnt comfortable with touch.
I think touch makes ppl more human especially if a client is distressed.
I wish hugs could be recieved down the phone.
I think that i couldnt work with a therapist that wasnt comfortable with touch.
I think touch makes ppl more human especially if a client is distressed.
I wish hugs could be recieved down the phone.
If and when I have to find a new T I know that this will be one of my questions during the first session. I've never thought of it before but this current experience has really impressed upon me how important and helpful physical contact can be for me in therapy.
River
You crack me up. I think business cards like that would save a lot of us an awful lot of pain. Sure wish I knew more about therapy before I started. Ok, I wish I had known ANYTHING about therapy before I started.
PL
You crack me up.
I think business cards like that would save a lot of us an awful lot of pain. Sure wish I knew more about therapy before I started. Ok, I wish I had known ANYTHING about therapy before I started. PL
quote:T's should put this stuff on their business cards so we'll all know what to expect before we get sucked in with the transference
You're absolutely right. And on the same note, I also think there should be a disclaimer about the possibility of transference in the first place. I actually told my T that a while back. She said "We really have no way of knowing until it happens." I think that is why I said "possibility." No one ever told me therapy was painful. I just went in for what I thought was one problem I needed help working through and thought it should only take a few months. I had no clue I could be opening pandoras box.
It's now 3 years later, ask me how that worked out.
JM,
One of the things I really liked about CalmT was that he _did_ have a disclaimer - an "explanation of psychological services". It looked a lot like the Sidran's Institute's Psychotherapy Information Disclosure Statement, which rocks, right?
S'goodstuff.
One of the things I really liked about CalmT was that he _did_ have a disclaimer - an "explanation of psychological services". It looked a lot like the Sidran's Institute's Psychotherapy Information Disclosure Statement, which rocks, right?
S'goodstuff.
quote:Originally posted by Just Me:
" No one ever told me therapy was painful. I just went in for what I thought was one problem I needed help working through and thought it should only take a few months. I had no clue I could be opening pandoras box.
LOL exactly how I felt. I never connected with a therapist until this year.(I have been in therapy my whole life and it was just a hobby I guess). I walked into the rape crises center thinking... hmmmmm I believe I need to work on incest... and now I am drowning in transference and want to run the other way!!! AHHHH
Has anyone hugged a pillow and pretended it was their therapist. Or while feeling triggered and stuck in that scary place pretending your therapist was there to save you or be with you??
I guess I am really working on hugging that pillow and pretending its my inner child and trying to comfort her myself... but I just started working on this stuff... =) Its only been 7 months since I started.. so I hope I am making progress
I guess I am really working on hugging that pillow and pretending its my inner child and trying to comfort her myself... but I just started working on this stuff... =) Its only been 7 months since I started.. so I hope I am making progress
Never hugged a pillow and pretended it was her, but I have imagined she was lying with me when I am upset, or that she was holding me. I'm haven't learned to comfort my inner kiddo yet either. I feel like me and my T are at a stand off of sorts, both refusing to mother me, but for different reasons.
I DEFINITELY think you are making progress, especially if you are trying to comfort your little girl. I've been at it 11 months now, and I am still resisting!!!!
-CT
I DEFINITELY think you are making progress, especially if you are trying to comfort your little girl. I've been at it 11 months now, and I am still resisting!!!!
-CT
Sometimes I imagine my T holding me while I hug my pillow and I will cry while I imagine she is holding me. Sometimes during session Iwill hold one of her pillows and I think that represents her too. Though I'm not exactly sure. It is a comfort thing though.
I have lots to comfort I am finding.
I have lots to comfort I am finding.
quote:Originally posted by Just Me:
Sometimes I imagine my T holding me while I hug my pillow and I will cry while I imagine she is holding me. Sometimes during session Iwill hold one of her pillows and I think that represents her too. Though I'm not exactly sure. It is a comfort thing though.
I have lots to comfort I am finding.
I am glad I am not the only one.. I think for me its weird. While I was growing up I never had anyone hold me and tell me it would all be okay.. and so now here I am wishing my T could make up for all that lost time!
hehe
quote:Originally posted by Chronically Transferred:
Never hugged a pillow and pretended it was her, but I have imagined she was lying with me when I am upset, or that she was holding me. I'm haven't learned to comfort my inner kiddo yet either. I feel like me and my T are at a stand off of sorts, both refusing to mother me, but for different reasons.
I DEFINITELY think you are making progress, especially if you are trying to comfort your little girl. I've been at it 11 months now, and I am still resisting!!!!
-CT
Lol I am still resisting too. Because I know that as soon as I can love her and mother her I will feel a lot better and in control, YET i still feel its totally unfair that I have to mother myself YET again.... Its like how can I do it any differently than I did as a child when I "mothered" myself. I just have more knowledge now...
Sorry you are resisting too, but the fact that you know that is one step closer!! I felt last session that I was so alone and I hated my therapist. She made it pretty clear that I have to mother myself and she can't do it for me.. and that ... peeved me off! lol
quote:While I was growing up I never had anyone hold me and tell me it would all be okay.. and so now here I am wishing my T could make up for all that lost time!
That's all I want from my T, and I know she can't give it. That doesn't keep me from painfully wanting it though.
PL
Hi PL
I hear where you are coming from, I have the same issue with my P. You all talk about getting hugs from your T's, do any of you have P's that give you hugs?
Holly
I hear where you are coming from, I have the same issue with my P. You all talk about getting hugs from your T's, do any of you have P's that give you hugs?
Holly
quote:Originally posted by HollyBaby0:
Hi PL
I hear where you are coming from, I have the same issue with my P. You all talk about getting hugs from your T's, do any of you have P's that give you hugs?
Holly
I never had a psychiatrist that gave hugs... But all my psychs have been male and for some reason I get creeped out from a male hug... not from female hugs.. I have been thinking about that a lot lately and wander if its simply because they have a penis and I'm worried they might get an erection...
I know ... its so hard for me to realize that I will never have anyone make up for the lack of love and nurturing I didn't get. It still baffles me though, because my mom was a very good mother.. I guess she just wasn't there for me emotionally =(
quote:It still baffles me though, because my mom was a very good mother.. I guess she just wasn't there for me emotionally =(
TG85
This is what I am finding out also. And it makes understanding it, all the more difficult for me. I can't say that she abused me, either mentally or physically. And she loved me deeply. But I am now finding out that She couldn't handle the emotional part. And she didn't teach me that it was ok to have emotions. And now that the cap has been lifted just a little bit by my T, all the nasty stuff that I pushed down so very deep is starting to ooze out. And I don't know what to do with it, or how to handle it because I never thought I could with my mom. I'm afraid to let it out because I fear the reaction of the person I let it out to. But, little by little I am taking the risk with my T. I just don't foresee me taking that risk with anyone else, EVER, other than her.
My T and I have had very tender handshakes. I know she would give me a hug, but I haven't had the guts to ask for it yet, and I know she will not initiate it.
But, it is definitely going to happen in the future.PL
quote:Originally posted by puppy lover:quote:It still baffles me though, because my mom was a very good mother.. I guess she just wasn't there for me emotionally =(
TG85
This is what I am finding out also. And it makes understanding it, all the more difficult for me. I can't say that she abused me, either mentally or physically. And she loved me deeply. But I am now finding out that She couldn't handle the emotional part. And she didn't teach me that it was ok to have emotions. And now that the cap has been lifted just a little bit by my T, all the nasty stuff that I pushed down so very deep is starting to ooze out. And I don't know what to do with it, or how to handle it because I never thought I could with my mom. I'm afraid to let it out because I fear the reaction of the person I let it out to. But, little by little I am taking the risk with my T. I just don't foresee me taking that risk with anyone else, EVER, other than her.
My T and I have had very tender handshakes. I know she would give me a hug, but I haven't had the guts to ask for it yet, and I know she will not initiate it.
PL
hehe I know what you mean... The problem I am having right now is that I DON'T trust her. And I can't tell if it has to do with transference or if I REALLY can't trust her! =(
I am sorry you have to go through this.. it really sucks.. But it is great you are dealing!! =)
I would be scared to even ask my therapist for a hug. Like I said in my introduction,She is sometimes more like an ice cube than a caring counselor.
At my first session, my T shook my hand when he introduced himself. No other physical contact after that, ever. Then when I thought I was ending therapy, I asked if I could shake his hand. We did, I thanked him for all his help, and that was that.
After reading everyone else's responses, I'm almost embarrassed to talk about my experiences. For one thing, I lay on the ground, on my tummy covered up by my jacket and a blanket during therapy. Literally, you can't see an inch of my skin. When my mom died, I spent a lot of time crying in therapy. My therapist started sitting on the ground next to me rubbing my back or holding my hand. It was very healing for me. Now, she comes down to the ground and rubs my back and holds my hand every session. Through this, I've been able to get some of my needs met. I feel so cared for and safe. She has never crossed any boundaries; it feels very mothering, which is what I need. I feel very fortunate to have found her.
My T holds me hand and pats me head. I got a blanket I use sometimes too. And i give her hugs.
Samy
Samy
Catgirl, that sounds like wonderful healing therapy. I'm really glad you posted it. It sounds like your therapist is doing what you need to heal and in a way that makes you feel safe.
I remember one instructor I saw explained that gently slowly rubbing someone's back stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system. That is, it has a calming effect in the same way we do for babies. My therapist did this for me one day when I walked in with a migraine. Well, within a couple hours my migraine had lifted. Since then I have periodically asked her to do so again and it has been amazingly healing, allowing me to feel supported in a way that might be hard otherwise.
Shrinklady
I remember one instructor I saw explained that gently slowly rubbing someone's back stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system. That is, it has a calming effect in the same way we do for babies. My therapist did this for me one day when I walked in with a migraine. Well, within a couple hours my migraine had lifted. Since then I have periodically asked her to do so again and it has been amazingly healing, allowing me to feel supported in a way that might be hard otherwise.
Shrinklady
Shrinklady that is very interesting. My young son has ADHD and he cannot seem to calm down enough to relax into sleep unless I rub his back. He is not on any meds. Also when he's upset I sit with him and rub his back and this has always seemed to calm him. It just could be that it stimulates his parasympathetic nervous system which perhaps is not as automatic for him has it is for some other people. I think it would be easier for a female therapist to offer that as a calming technique than a male who may be skittish about the sexual overtones. What do you think? My T is a male.
TN
TN
Yes, I can imagine a male therapist might have a harder time of it. Similarly, it might be hard for a female therapist with a male client. And certainly, everything gets much more complicated if there is a sexual transference to the therapist (or countertransference). As a profession, we'll have to broach this area sometime in the future. It seems neuroscience is certainly suggestive that touch is required.
This is one reason I recommend bodywork to most of my clients. I send them to a specialist who's work is a cross between therapy and massage. We're developing an article together on a new way of approaching massage therapy. http://www.myshrink.com/bodywork-therapy.php
By the way, it's great to hear you're in therapy. This is probably the biggest gift you're giving to your son. As you may know from reading other material on the site, as your nervous system begins to regulate better, it will have a beneficial impact on your son's nervous system. Isn't that cool!
Shrinklady
This is one reason I recommend bodywork to most of my clients. I send them to a specialist who's work is a cross between therapy and massage. We're developing an article together on a new way of approaching massage therapy. http://www.myshrink.com/bodywork-therapy.php
By the way, it's great to hear you're in therapy. This is probably the biggest gift you're giving to your son. As you may know from reading other material on the site, as your nervous system begins to regulate better, it will have a beneficial impact on your son's nervous system. Isn't that cool!
Shrinklady
Hi everyone, i'm new but saw this thread, and even though it's old now, it really got me thinking.
I have this intense longing with my T as a mother figure (yeah transference... i don't expect her to replace my mother, it's more a yearning for what i didn't have. To me she represents the perfect "mother" and that helps heal that part of me in some way...)
Sometimes I’ve wanted her to just reach out and hug me but I’d never ask. I’m too scared of being rejected. My mum used to physically push/kick us away if we tried to touch her and I never wanted to risk that with my T. She's mentioned the hug thing a couple of times, about how some other Ts she knows hug and that she think that’s a little weird, etc. Sometimes I wonder if she was telling me to try to gauge how I felt about hugs, whether it would be ok if she were to hug me... Because she knows i hate people invading my boundaries, so maybe she isn't sure. Or maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part, who knows. But I’ve never even risked showing interest because I couldn’t bear to hear her say no when asking would make me feel so vulnerable.
That’s probably a big part of why I don’t ever touch someone without them touching me first, I never make a move on anyone, etc – because I can’t make myself vulnerable to that rejection. And I expect it all the time. I would reject me… Hmmm aint self-esteem a b*tch...
thanks for reading, just wanted to add my 2cents
cassie
I have this intense longing with my T as a mother figure (yeah transference... i don't expect her to replace my mother, it's more a yearning for what i didn't have. To me she represents the perfect "mother" and that helps heal that part of me in some way...)
Sometimes I’ve wanted her to just reach out and hug me but I’d never ask. I’m too scared of being rejected. My mum used to physically push/kick us away if we tried to touch her and I never wanted to risk that with my T. She's mentioned the hug thing a couple of times, about how some other Ts she knows hug and that she think that’s a little weird, etc. Sometimes I wonder if she was telling me to try to gauge how I felt about hugs, whether it would be ok if she were to hug me... Because she knows i hate people invading my boundaries, so maybe she isn't sure. Or maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part, who knows. But I’ve never even risked showing interest because I couldn’t bear to hear her say no when asking would make me feel so vulnerable.
That’s probably a big part of why I don’t ever touch someone without them touching me first, I never make a move on anyone, etc – because I can’t make myself vulnerable to that rejection. And I expect it all the time. I would reject me… Hmmm aint self-esteem a b*tch...
thanks for reading, just wanted to add my 2cents
cassie
Hi Cassie...
Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you decided to join us here...in our trials and tribulations of "life in therapy."
You probably have already read my response on this "hug" issue thing. I've had a difficult time with this one. I used to be much like you...and really didn't want anyone to touch me. It took me quite a few years in therapy to overcome this fear...and I don't want to lose what I learned there. In my current treatment I feel like a lot of that has been undone. And it really irritates me. I may decide to talk about it again today...but I have several things on my agenda so the hug issue will be at the bottom. I'll get back to you on it if I do discuss it.
SD
HEY Russ.....
Since this thread has been bumped to the top again...I took another look at it. I have been wanting to ask you if you have read anything...or experienced any "imago" type therapy. Doe's your guy do this with you? After reading your posts since this time....I think he does not do this with you.
Imago is a pretty weird kind of mirroring technique. I've tried it in relationship counseling...and felt somewhat silly doing it. It did help initially...but not in the long run...the relationship died a horrible death. hmmmm..... icky.
Your last interaction with him was pretty close to "imago" so maybe he has incorporated some of it into his style.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts were on this?
SD
Welcome to the forum. I'm glad you decided to join us here...in our trials and tribulations of "life in therapy."
You probably have already read my response on this "hug" issue thing. I've had a difficult time with this one. I used to be much like you...and really didn't want anyone to touch me. It took me quite a few years in therapy to overcome this fear...and I don't want to lose what I learned there. In my current treatment I feel like a lot of that has been undone. And it really irritates me. I may decide to talk about it again today...but I have several things on my agenda so the hug issue will be at the bottom. I'll get back to you on it if I do discuss it.
SD
quote:Originally posted by Russ:
I know this is a bit off-topic, but my T - despite his cerebral style - rarely uses any kind of psychological terminology or jargon, such as "attachment," "transference," "ego" or "the self." The only terms I recall him using are "imago" and "manifest and latent content" in reference to dreams.
Sometimes I bring these terms up and want to talk about them and he'll entertain my curiosity for a bit, but then he'll always say, "but this is really a kind of distraction." And what he means I think is that this stuff is technical and intellectual, not feeling.
The son of a gun always wants to bring it back to the feeling.
Russ
HEY Russ.....
Since this thread has been bumped to the top again...I took another look at it. I have been wanting to ask you if you have read anything...or experienced any "imago" type therapy. Doe's your guy do this with you? After reading your posts since this time....I think he does not do this with you.
Imago is a pretty weird kind of mirroring technique. I've tried it in relationship counseling...and felt somewhat silly doing it. It did help initially...but not in the long run...the relationship died a horrible death. hmmmm..... icky.
Your last interaction with him was pretty close to "imago" so maybe he has incorporated some of it into his style.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts were on this?
SD
quote:Originally posted by soulfuldaze:
HEY Russ.....
Since this thread has been bumped to the top again...I took another look at it. I have been wanting to ask you if you have read anything...or experienced any "imago" type therapy. Doe's your guy do this with you? After reading your posts since this time....I think he does not do this with you.
Imago is a pretty weird kind of mirroring technique. I've tried it in relationship counseling...and felt somewhat silly doing it. It did help initially...but not in the long run...the relationship died a horrible death. hmmmm..... icky.
Your last interaction with him was pretty close to "imago" so maybe he has incorporated some of it into his style.
I'm just wondering what your thoughts were on this?
SD
SD,
The one time he used that term "imago" I believe he was referring to my mother as an imago in my mind...meaning some larger than life, idealized thing. I don't really know what imago mirroring is, so I can't tell you if he's used it or not, but it doesn't really sound like him.
What exactly is it?
Russ
Hi Russ...
Imago is a technique that uses "echoing" or "mirroring" language to confirm communication between two people. You face each other and repeat what the other has said...giving an interpretation of how you "heard" it and what your impressions are. The goal is to create clear communication and eliminate assumptions and misunderstandings. And to discover our "inter-relatedness."
If your T used this term in relationship to your mother then my thought is that he was saying that you are repeating messages that you internalized from your mother. That you are "reflecting or echoing" a message from your mother.
I really just wanted to ask you about it because I found it interesting that he used the term in individual counseling. I have only heard it in relationship to couples therapy. But when you described his usage...I think I understand what he meant. This quote pretty much explains it.
Here are a couple of links that describe "imago" techniques.
http://www.harvillehendrix.com/
http://www.therapy4couples.com/imago-theory.html
SD
Imago is a technique that uses "echoing" or "mirroring" language to confirm communication between two people. You face each other and repeat what the other has said...giving an interpretation of how you "heard" it and what your impressions are. The goal is to create clear communication and eliminate assumptions and misunderstandings. And to discover our "inter-relatedness."
If your T used this term in relationship to your mother then my thought is that he was saying that you are repeating messages that you internalized from your mother. That you are "reflecting or echoing" a message from your mother.
I really just wanted to ask you about it because I found it interesting that he used the term in individual counseling. I have only heard it in relationship to couples therapy. But when you described his usage...I think I understand what he meant. This quote pretty much explains it.
quote:We have a composite image of all the positive and negative traits of our primary caretakers deep in our unconscious mind. This is called the Imago.
Here are a couple of links that describe "imago" techniques.
http://www.harvillehendrix.com/
http://www.therapy4couples.com/imago-theory.html
SD
I am having a huge "hugs in therapy" issue with my therapist. I've been seeing her for 10 years and have always told her that I need her to provide some kind of physical comfort when I get too deeply into my pain. . .but she hasn't done it. It has reached a point where I am considering terminating.
I have a major issue with physical touch. The lack of physical comfort when i was in pain as a child has left me with what feels like a huge need to have somebody hug me or hold my hand when I express grief. Except for one occasion recently, my t has decided not to fill that need, despite the fact that I've been in therapy with her for 10 years. I've been asking for physical comfort from the beginning. Her main reason for not giving me hugs while I'm deeply distressed is because of my childhood SA by a man who also was nurturing. While i understand her hesitancy, I believe that any danger that physical touch could present pales in comparison to the feeling of being in deep emotional distress and feeling as though I'm struggling alone. Also, both my t and I are female, so there is none of the attraction issues. Anyway, my t's continuing to withhold comforting touch has felt more awful than I can describe. . .like there is something gross or bad about me that she doesn't want to come near me. She says that's not true, but it feels that way. But I feel so rejected.
To complicate matters, one of my former friends who was like a mom to me was looking for me at a convention over the weekend and wanted to hug me. Because she's not a healthy person and has hurt me, I avoided running into her. But it was so hard to do, when parts of me miss her and want so much to be hugged and cared about.
This feels like a repetition to me, where as a child, I couldn't get safe touch from the ones who should have provided it. . .and only unhealthy touch is available.
I've talked and talked to my t about why i need safe touch, but it does no good. It has reached a point where i feel like I've had to beg for what i need, and i have little dignity left. i feel like a dog at the table begging for scraps. When my t finally offered a hug yesterday, I couldn't take it. I told her that if she had wanted to do it, she would have a long time ago. It feels like the only reason she is giving in is because I've been begging her to do it for 10 years. There's no way I can find any comfort from something that I've had to "drag out of her."
This too feels just like my childhood. The one example that comes to my mind is going up to my room and wanting my mom to tuck me into bed. She said she'd come, but I waited and waited. I kept calling for her and calling for her. Eventually, by the time she came to tuck me in, I was crying and couldn't take any comfort in the physical touch. I felt like I'd forced her to do it against her will, and that it wasn't given willingly. I felt like she only did it because i bugged her enough she felt she had to do it.
So yesterday in t, I was hurt and frustrated beyond belief. And very angry. Even though my t has her reasons for not giving me the kind of touch that I need, I feel completely rejected, mad, hurt, and frustrated. I feel like a leper. And I also feel very empty and lonely inside with my pain. I feel like I've made myself vulnerable and risked telling them I need something, and they are making me go without.
It all feels like a repeat.
My t also told me yesterday about how trauma survivors repeat their traumas over and over again with people in the present until they've worked through their original trauma. She says I am doing that with her, and that is why i feel like she is doing the same thing to me that my parents did. She says I need to resolve my earlier traumas from my childhood to break this pattern.
I agree that i need to resolve my earlier trauma, and i even understand what she means when she says we repeat the same trauma cycle with other people. But I don't agree with her that it's just my faulty perception and illogical thinking that make me believe that she is doing the same thing to me that was done to me as a child (hurting me by withholding touch when needed). Back then, good touch was withheld and unhealthy touch was offered. Same thing happening now. It's not just my imagination!!
I've gone through phases before where I get frustrated and angry and want to quit therapy. But I feel this way more than ever this time. I don't know if i want to do this anymore. It's more pain than anything else.
I'm thinking about taking a break from therapy. I'm deadlocked and can't get over this.
I feel like crap.
I have a major issue with physical touch. The lack of physical comfort when i was in pain as a child has left me with what feels like a huge need to have somebody hug me or hold my hand when I express grief. Except for one occasion recently, my t has decided not to fill that need, despite the fact that I've been in therapy with her for 10 years. I've been asking for physical comfort from the beginning. Her main reason for not giving me hugs while I'm deeply distressed is because of my childhood SA by a man who also was nurturing. While i understand her hesitancy, I believe that any danger that physical touch could present pales in comparison to the feeling of being in deep emotional distress and feeling as though I'm struggling alone. Also, both my t and I are female, so there is none of the attraction issues. Anyway, my t's continuing to withhold comforting touch has felt more awful than I can describe. . .like there is something gross or bad about me that she doesn't want to come near me. She says that's not true, but it feels that way. But I feel so rejected.
To complicate matters, one of my former friends who was like a mom to me was looking for me at a convention over the weekend and wanted to hug me. Because she's not a healthy person and has hurt me, I avoided running into her. But it was so hard to do, when parts of me miss her and want so much to be hugged and cared about.
This feels like a repetition to me, where as a child, I couldn't get safe touch from the ones who should have provided it. . .and only unhealthy touch is available.
I've talked and talked to my t about why i need safe touch, but it does no good. It has reached a point where i feel like I've had to beg for what i need, and i have little dignity left. i feel like a dog at the table begging for scraps. When my t finally offered a hug yesterday, I couldn't take it. I told her that if she had wanted to do it, she would have a long time ago. It feels like the only reason she is giving in is because I've been begging her to do it for 10 years. There's no way I can find any comfort from something that I've had to "drag out of her."
This too feels just like my childhood. The one example that comes to my mind is going up to my room and wanting my mom to tuck me into bed. She said she'd come, but I waited and waited. I kept calling for her and calling for her. Eventually, by the time she came to tuck me in, I was crying and couldn't take any comfort in the physical touch. I felt like I'd forced her to do it against her will, and that it wasn't given willingly. I felt like she only did it because i bugged her enough she felt she had to do it.
So yesterday in t, I was hurt and frustrated beyond belief. And very angry. Even though my t has her reasons for not giving me the kind of touch that I need, I feel completely rejected, mad, hurt, and frustrated. I feel like a leper. And I also feel very empty and lonely inside with my pain. I feel like I've made myself vulnerable and risked telling them I need something, and they are making me go without.
It all feels like a repeat.
My t also told me yesterday about how trauma survivors repeat their traumas over and over again with people in the present until they've worked through their original trauma. She says I am doing that with her, and that is why i feel like she is doing the same thing to me that my parents did. She says I need to resolve my earlier traumas from my childhood to break this pattern.
I agree that i need to resolve my earlier trauma, and i even understand what she means when she says we repeat the same trauma cycle with other people. But I don't agree with her that it's just my faulty perception and illogical thinking that make me believe that she is doing the same thing to me that was done to me as a child (hurting me by withholding touch when needed). Back then, good touch was withheld and unhealthy touch was offered. Same thing happening now. It's not just my imagination!!
I've gone through phases before where I get frustrated and angry and want to quit therapy. But I feel this way more than ever this time. I don't know if i want to do this anymore. It's more pain than anything else.
I'm thinking about taking a break from therapy. I'm deadlocked and can't get over this.
I feel like crap.
Emerging,
I'm sorry that you're going through such a painful time. If I were to see a T that refused to give hugs, I think that I'd get a new one. To me, it feels too much like rejection. I'm not suggesting that you get a new one, because if you've worked with her for 10 years, there's obviously something working. I'm just saying that I can see that it's painful.
Have you asked her if she refuses to give all of her clients physical affection or if it's just you? Some therapists just have a policy about that, and it's not about any one particular client.
I'm just curious, you said, "Back then, good touch was withheld and unhealthy touch was offered. Same thing happening now." What unhealthy touch are you referring to with your T? Are you talking about her finally offering a hug after you've practically begged for years for it, so now it doesn't feel like it's a healthy offering from her?
It sounds like you're at one of those points in therapy where big change is about to happen. For me, things get very intense and painful, and I swear I'm going to quit therapy. I'm mad at my T or myself, and I feel like I can't handle another session, then a change happens. My eyes are opened to a new thought or idea. I grow. Maybe that's what's happening to you.
I encourage you to keep talking with your T about what you want, not in an effort to get her to give it to you, but in an effort to work through it. This might sound weird, but I think there are some similarities in it. I've been looking for a "mother" for my whole life. (I love my mom very much, and I know that she did the best she could. She died a year ago.) One day, I realized that I REALLY want my T to adopt me and be my mom. It took me many months to muster up the strength to talk about this desire. Now, I talk about it almost every session. I want it so badly. I tell her that I wish she would adopt me. I tell her that I'd be a good daughter. I almost feel like I'm begging her to adopt me. I know that there's absolutely no way that she would ever be able to fill this desire of mine. Somehow, though through talking about it with her, and through her continuous acceptance of me where I am, I feel like I'm finally beginning to work through this lifelong longing and loss. If you keep talking about it with your T, maybe you will begin to feel like you're working through it, as well.
It was brave of you and a good start to talk about it here.
catgirl
I'm sorry that you're going through such a painful time. If I were to see a T that refused to give hugs, I think that I'd get a new one. To me, it feels too much like rejection. I'm not suggesting that you get a new one, because if you've worked with her for 10 years, there's obviously something working. I'm just saying that I can see that it's painful.
Have you asked her if she refuses to give all of her clients physical affection or if it's just you? Some therapists just have a policy about that, and it's not about any one particular client.
I'm just curious, you said, "Back then, good touch was withheld and unhealthy touch was offered. Same thing happening now." What unhealthy touch are you referring to with your T? Are you talking about her finally offering a hug after you've practically begged for years for it, so now it doesn't feel like it's a healthy offering from her?
It sounds like you're at one of those points in therapy where big change is about to happen. For me, things get very intense and painful, and I swear I'm going to quit therapy. I'm mad at my T or myself, and I feel like I can't handle another session, then a change happens. My eyes are opened to a new thought or idea. I grow. Maybe that's what's happening to you.
I encourage you to keep talking with your T about what you want, not in an effort to get her to give it to you, but in an effort to work through it. This might sound weird, but I think there are some similarities in it. I've been looking for a "mother" for my whole life. (I love my mom very much, and I know that she did the best she could. She died a year ago.) One day, I realized that I REALLY want my T to adopt me and be my mom. It took me many months to muster up the strength to talk about this desire. Now, I talk about it almost every session. I want it so badly. I tell her that I wish she would adopt me. I tell her that I'd be a good daughter. I almost feel like I'm begging her to adopt me. I know that there's absolutely no way that she would ever be able to fill this desire of mine. Somehow, though through talking about it with her, and through her continuous acceptance of me where I am, I feel like I'm finally beginning to work through this lifelong longing and loss. If you keep talking about it with your T, maybe you will begin to feel like you're working through it, as well.
It was brave of you and a good start to talk about it here.
catgirl
Hi emerging...
Somewhere here was a great link about hugging in therapy i thought you might like it if you haven't seen it:
http://www.jung-at-heart.com/j...matter_of_touch.html
It helped a tiny bit for me not to get those hugs from my T. Though I still want them. So so much... But I also think the down side of hugs is they can be used against you - if it becomes habit to hug, what if the T doesn't hug you one day - you will question what you've done wrong. Or if she is mad/upset (either at you - very unprofessional but it happens, or in her own life) then a hug might be withheld. That's going to cause pain too. So I guess unless you have one of those Ts who dish out the hugs freely, it's not something you can force.
I had SA in my childhood too, and I feel like my T of all people should be someone I can get a safe hug from without any expectations for more from either of us. But I can't force that because she has her own boundaries and I need to accept them. It's interesting what you said:
That's how I've felt too. Exactly. With anyone i need physcial comfort from that they wont/cant give me. But I am trying to accept that everyone has their own rules about touch. And I hate the fear from people of touching someone though, just because of an abuse history. Like we're so fragile we can't handle a hug. Why can't they just ask "would you like me to hug you?" or "i'd like to hug you, is that ok" if they are worried about a reaction? It just feeds the cliche that abuse survivors can't handle being touched. Grrrr...
Anyway, just wanted to say I understand. You've been with your T a very long time though, is there a way you can work through this? I WANT my T to hug me but I don't NEED her to. I can survive without it. You have too for this long.
Times like that I miss my cat... he was always there for hugs. No questions asked, no expectations, no judgements. Just unconditional love...
LTF
Somewhere here was a great link about hugging in therapy i thought you might like it if you haven't seen it:
http://www.jung-at-heart.com/j...matter_of_touch.html
It helped a tiny bit for me not to get those hugs from my T. Though I still want them. So so much... But I also think the down side of hugs is they can be used against you - if it becomes habit to hug, what if the T doesn't hug you one day - you will question what you've done wrong. Or if she is mad/upset (either at you - very unprofessional but it happens, or in her own life) then a hug might be withheld. That's going to cause pain too. So I guess unless you have one of those Ts who dish out the hugs freely, it's not something you can force.
I had SA in my childhood too, and I feel like my T of all people should be someone I can get a safe hug from without any expectations for more from either of us. But I can't force that because she has her own boundaries and I need to accept them. It's interesting what you said:
quote:like there is something gross or bad about me that she doesn't want to come near me. She says that's not true, but it feels that way. But I feel so rejected.
That's how I've felt too. Exactly. With anyone i need physcial comfort from that they wont/cant give me. But I am trying to accept that everyone has their own rules about touch. And I hate the fear from people of touching someone though, just because of an abuse history. Like we're so fragile we can't handle a hug. Why can't they just ask "would you like me to hug you?" or "i'd like to hug you, is that ok" if they are worried about a reaction? It just feeds the cliche that abuse survivors can't handle being touched. Grrrr...
Anyway, just wanted to say I understand. You've been with your T a very long time though, is there a way you can work through this? I WANT my T to hug me but I don't NEED her to. I can survive without it. You have too for this long.
Times like that I miss my cat... he was always there for hugs. No questions asked, no expectations, no judgements. Just unconditional love...
LTF
LTF and Emerging....
I hear you on this issue. And have already posted my "irritation" about it. I have been seeing my T for over 18 years and she has not crossed this line with me...even though I have. She tells me that eventually I will be happy about it. I most likely will not give her another opportunity and it has damaged my trust with her. I may get over it...and it may turn out as she said. But she is going to have to explain that to me and that's not something she really likes to do.
I think that the current ideology about touching clients is WAY off right now. It's like ignoring the slotted screwdriver in your toolbox and trying to use a dime instead. It's a silly analogy but have you ever used a dime when you needed a screwdriver? LOL.... This is my point. Touch is a very powerful tool...when used properly.
I think that part of the touch issue is plainly and simply...risk-management. A rule to CYA in case of malpractice suits. I believe my T has this across-the-board policy with her clients. I will talk to her about it again...sometime soon. I just want her to know that I believe it was a mistake on her part and I want her to know why. I do not believe that it will change anything for me but I need her to understand how it made me feel.
I needed some reassurance and a deepening of the attachment to her at the time. But now...the damage is already done. I don't care anymore...and that alone hurts me. It has effected my own sense of what is appropriate in my RL relationships...it's made it difficult for me to feel close and intimate with others.
My child selves certainly know the difference between "good" touch and "bad" touch...and will make that apparent. So the rationalization about the SA issues just doesn't work with me either. I have a clear understanding about hugs and touch and certainly do not expect it to be a constant need for me. It is a simple matter of grounding for me and a more secure attachment. I need to feel connected to the real world before she sends me out to deal with it, and I need to feel a more safe and secure bond to her.
Lately...I am noticing some changes in her "style" but at this time...I don't know what that is about. I suppose she will let me know when she wants to. Or maybe I'll wonder for the rest of my life. Hmmmm....
Therapy is a weird and wondrous relationship. My T and I do the "limbic limbo" very well together....but there are other aspects to the relationship that do not work well. I love her...and always will, and she knows that. So we continue to plod through our difficulties. I may get my "knickers in a knot" about something else and try to quit on her again...but I doubt it. Finding the "right" ending is more important to me now.
So....that's my 2 cents worth for today. I need to get ready for my session now. I hope everyone else has a good day. I'm sure mine will be.....ummmm.....interesting.
SD
I hear you on this issue. And have already posted my "irritation" about it. I have been seeing my T for over 18 years and she has not crossed this line with me...even though I have. She tells me that eventually I will be happy about it. I most likely will not give her another opportunity and it has damaged my trust with her. I may get over it...and it may turn out as she said. But she is going to have to explain that to me and that's not something she really likes to do.
I think that the current ideology about touching clients is WAY off right now. It's like ignoring the slotted screwdriver in your toolbox and trying to use a dime instead. It's a silly analogy but have you ever used a dime when you needed a screwdriver? LOL.... This is my point. Touch is a very powerful tool...when used properly.
I think that part of the touch issue is plainly and simply...risk-management. A rule to CYA in case of malpractice suits. I believe my T has this across-the-board policy with her clients. I will talk to her about it again...sometime soon. I just want her to know that I believe it was a mistake on her part and I want her to know why. I do not believe that it will change anything for me but I need her to understand how it made me feel.
I needed some reassurance and a deepening of the attachment to her at the time. But now...the damage is already done. I don't care anymore...and that alone hurts me. It has effected my own sense of what is appropriate in my RL relationships...it's made it difficult for me to feel close and intimate with others.
My child selves certainly know the difference between "good" touch and "bad" touch...and will make that apparent. So the rationalization about the SA issues just doesn't work with me either. I have a clear understanding about hugs and touch and certainly do not expect it to be a constant need for me. It is a simple matter of grounding for me and a more secure attachment. I need to feel connected to the real world before she sends me out to deal with it, and I need to feel a more safe and secure bond to her.
Lately...I am noticing some changes in her "style" but at this time...I don't know what that is about. I suppose she will let me know when she wants to. Or maybe I'll wonder for the rest of my life. Hmmmm....
Therapy is a weird and wondrous relationship. My T and I do the "limbic limbo" very well together....but there are other aspects to the relationship that do not work well. I love her...and always will, and she knows that. So we continue to plod through our difficulties. I may get my "knickers in a knot" about something else and try to quit on her again...but I doubt it. Finding the "right" ending is more important to me now.
So....that's my 2 cents worth for today. I need to get ready for my session now. I hope everyone else has a good day. I'm sure mine will be.....ummmm.....interesting.
SD
I dared to ask my therapist for another hug after he and I found out that I have feelings for him. I don't know why I wanted a first hug of him, which he gave me after the end of the session and it felt great. Last time when I had the courage to ask for my second hug, he agreed to do it during the session so we can talk about it later. He ruined my plan to steal a hug after the session and run away. Any future hugs he wants me to explain why I want them.... Short answer: I want them cause I love him and he's so damn handsome
Actually why not tell him that
Actually why not tell him that
Here's my story. I finally asked for a hug from my T.
I decided I was going to ask after spending a session talking about our ned to be soothed. Naturally, after saying "I need to ask you something", I froze up and couldn't speak, and then the longer the silence grew the more embarrassed I grew.
She ended up offering me paper and pen and I wrote "I need a hug" and handed it over whilst instinctively covering my face in shame.
She smiled, and immediately said "Ok. Stand up" WELL. I just froze and stared at her, and I think I actually squeaked? LOL. So she said again "Stand up, I'm not going to hug you sitting down" So I stood up and we hugged, and it felt so safe.
Because that left me feeling so good I can't remember much of what she said afterwards...but she said "Well done". I feel like I accomplished something that session...I'm not sure what though.
I decided I was going to ask after spending a session talking about our ned to be soothed. Naturally, after saying "I need to ask you something", I froze up and couldn't speak, and then the longer the silence grew the more embarrassed I grew.
She ended up offering me paper and pen and I wrote "I need a hug" and handed it over whilst instinctively covering my face in shame.
She smiled, and immediately said "Ok. Stand up" WELL. I just froze and stared at her, and I think I actually squeaked? LOL. So she said again "Stand up, I'm not going to hug you sitting down" So I stood up and we hugged, and it felt so safe.
Because that left me feeling so good I can't remember much of what she said afterwards...but she said "Well done". I feel like I accomplished something that session...I'm not sure what though.
Good for you, meta4!!! I'm very happy for you!
That is awesome. You were very brave to ask, regardless of her response...but to also get what you asked for is a bonus, the icing on the cake.
Thanks for sharing this with us!
SG
That is awesome. You were very brave to ask, regardless of her response...but to also get what you asked for is a bonus, the icing on the cake.
Thanks for sharing this with us!
SG