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Thanks for sharing your story Meta4. What you accomplished was recognizing a need that you had and then asking for it to be met. You found out what happens when you do ask. Having the courage to ask for what we need in therapy is a huge accomplishment. When we become comfortable with doing this within therapy then eventually we will take this to the outside world and be able to ask there too. Good work! So glad it had a positive outcome. But even if you did not get the hug your T would have discussed it with you and that would also be a valuable learning experience. And it would not negate the courage it took to ask.

TN
Hi True North
Sometimes or a lot of times I don't know how I feel. I do feel something but I don't know what and I'm just confused and my mind is blank.
Do you always know how you feel and are able to describe it?
I know when I feel fear.
I know I'm still at the begining, and there is a long way ahead of me.
You know yourself, it's complicated.
Hi all.

Thanks Meta4 for sharing, that story brought a smile to my face. I'm glad it worked out so well for you.

Reading through people's experience on here has really helped so thanks to everyone.

A good few of you probably know my story already but for those who don't I have had some serious transference issues with my last T. And I always craved touch but dared not ask for it. It appeared that my T had a strict no-touch policy but on the final meeting we had I thought something might happen, a handshake or a hug, just something. I just couldn't ask for it because the idea of him saying no was just too much. It would crush me.

I remember the day he and I discussed my dependency/transference, it was I who brought it up. After that session I felt so hurt, like someone had broken up with me. As much as I tried to stop myself, I think I had let an illusion or fantasy relationship/bond build up in my head.

Even now, that it's all said and done, I still think about his touch. I can't understand why I feel this way. I get that it is transference feelings, probably due to my relationship with my dad which is why the erotic part is so confusing.
I was so suspicious why he wanted me to explain why I want a hug. I thought he wanted to see if I am not getting sexual or something. If I am not trying to cross the boundary. If my motives to ask for a hug are sound. I was a bit confused. But then he explained that the reason he needs to know why is so he can make sure that hugs do no harm to me. It kind of made me feel so special when he said that. Like he is really taking care of me! Like he is one step ahead and watching if the place is safe for me.
I kind of understand it as he needs to know that a hug for me is not a promise of something more.
Last session towards the end I managed to get started with talkig about my feelings towards him, and I felt so happy about it that I wanted to hug him. He gently refused to do that in that moment, but I didn't feel hurt at all, I still felt so happy.
Some time later I realized that If I felt so happy and so in love, if I would have hugged him that would feel great. That would make me love him even more. I am already loving him more and that is getting painful. It feels like my transference is becoming erotic transference, and that means pain.
Hummingbird,

That's interesting. Yesterday I felt that loving him will have to hurt me. That I will have to go through this pain, then hate him and then 'emerge' on the other side.

But today, I was thinking about him in a different way, and I was thinking about your post too. So could it be that it doesn't have to hurt? That I could live through it and it could be just joyfull experience? Maybe slightly painfull, but the joy of loving him and experiencing his loving presence (although I know he doesn't really love me) will be greater then any pain I will experience?
Bad therapist... didn't hug me...
I was disappointed that he didn't because he sort of promised that he will. The little girl is pissed off that he didn't keep his promise, and she doesn't care that he knows better, she just wants her hug that she was waiting for so much. Bad therapist...
So I won't see him for another two weeks...
I know this thread is quite old, but it stuck a major chord with me and I feel I need to reply. Somewhere while reading through all of the posts, I just had to stop reading, cry a bit and then post this. A good while back my T made a comment about how she could see how how one of her clients was struggling and she just wanted to give her a hug but considered a violation of her ethics code or something like that. Close to eight months ago, I lost my fiancee to an accidental overdose and have been struggling so much ever since. My T made me a beautiful card when I saw her the session after telling her and at the end ai asked for a hug and she said of course I could. Ever since then it's been an okay thing between us. The last time I saw her about three weeks ago, at the end of my session I must have looked so distraught and she offered to give me a hug which of course I didn't pass up. I want to tell her how much she means to me so badly. I have definate tranference issues, it's as if I feel like she cares for me in the way that I feel like my mom didn't when I was younger. I'm afraid to even bring this up when I see her this week, I'm definately not wording it in that way either, the mom thing that is. Sometimes when I want to show her something that I made, im really into art for the record, she will sit down next to me to look at it, I feel so close to her then. Anyway thank you for this thread, it's very important.
Hi Beauty-
I don't have lots of experience with this stuff, but I would think that it would be ok for her to know that. She may already know it. Talk to her about it when you feel safe to do so.
I have talked briefly about my transference issues with my T and he gets it. Sometimes he is the Dad that I just would like to crawl up on his lap and cover my head for protection. ( I have not told him that one yet) My Dad rarely showed positive emotions to us. And when he did I was too afraid of him to accept it.
Sometimes I learn that things which are a revelation to me, he already understands.
Trusting my T is still hard. Sometimes after a session he asks me if I want a hug. Sometimes I ask him if I may have a hug, but this has taken a while for me to do. (about a year) Best of everything to you and have a good 2010.
I guess I should count myself lucky because I get a "side" hug on the way down the hall to the exit door after EVERY session starting on I think the 3rd session, and I believe in the almost six months I've been doing therapy I've seen my T 12 times, so I think that means 10, because last session I kinda got 2, one on the way to her office, and one on the way out. Her mother died the week before my visit with her, so she was a bit more generous perhaps because she needed the hugs herself. I'm really thinking though that these "side" hugs are making my feelings for her worse because I feel so "mothered" and cared for when I get them. She asked me if there were things she could do or things she could stop doing to help my feelings (I know, she's oblivious to the depth of the transference feelings apparently). The hugs thing popped into my head, but there was no way I was going to intentionally deny myself of those. They are precious treasures and I don't think I could give them up, even if I knew for sure that it would be for my own best interest. Frowner
Echo and Monte:

Okay, so if I remember correctly, you both have feelings for your Ts, right? Not having anything from your T, including eye contact sometimes (SO sorry, echo) has got to be SUPER hard. I was thinking that maybe part of why I got so easily attached to my T was because she gives me that "side" hug, but I'm finally seeing that there are people on the boards that are attached to their Ts and they haven't even gotten a single little crumb of physical contact from their T. Guess that theory has been disproved. Roll Eyes I'll assume having my T discontinue the side hugs won't help with my feelings (not that I was going to tell her to quit giving them out in the first place! Wink)

Mad Hatter: You're lucky your T will hold your hand. That's something I doubt I will ever experience. In fact, I think it would be a little weird for me, but I guess it would depend on the circumstances. And a really big hug would be nice on a day I really need it, but I just don't see it ever happening. Maybe at my very last session, but I don't even want to think about that...

Amazon, I like that you are "collecting" your T's hugs for future reminiscing. Smiler Maybe I should start journaling the way I feel about these interactions with my T and see if the feelings change over time. Hmmmm....
Monte:

I'm so sorry...it sounds like you really struggle with this issue. I would, too. I had the same sort of feelings for my Physical Therapist last year. Fortunately I never shook his hand or hugged him because I honestly think either of those would have triggered more than the "mild, almost innocent" feelings you mentioned, and that would have been disastrous. Of course, the relationship with him was of a completely different nature than that with a psychotherapist, but I understand the strong feelings and the protector/rescuer/paternal transference thing.

I think maybe that voice in your head wants the protector/rescuer/father figure to comfort, protect, nurture and love you, but at the same time it's aware of the potential dangers as an adult and being already emotionally attached to this man. It does set you up for developing stronger feelings for him if the physical touch part comes into play. Just my opinion, but having been in a similar place myself, that's how I see myself as reacting. Like part of me wants that, but the other part of me is screaming "DANGER!!!". I feel for you...
quote:
Originally posted by Z:
I used to count. I'd write down every little bit of physical contact we had. I'd treasure each little thing. This was while I was still convinced that at some point the hugs would stop.

The hugs haven't stopped, but I've stopped counting Smiler


Hm... I wonder if there is such a possibility.

I used to imagine hugging him many many times. I imagined that if I ever could put my arms around him and touch him I would do it so very very gently that I would bearly touch him, because I would not want to make him uncomfortable. And in my thoughts I always focused on me hugging him. I could not imagine what it would feel like to be hugged.
However last time something different happened. And it's sort of beyond my awareness. I just realized the difference after I got home.
When I hug him I always say at some point "it's ok, I have to let go of you now" and move away without looking at him. Last time I said my usual "it's ok" and wanted to move away but I noticed that he was still holding me and didn't release his hold. So half conciously I realized that it's fine to stay like that a little longer. After a while I noticed that he is letting me go very very gently so I let go of him and I looked into his eyes and gave him this big smile. And it just happend beyond my control. I think that was something different. New pattern perhaps?

Echo, I'm wondering, have you ever talked to your T, how you are feeling when the sessions end? It sounds like your are getting this confusing messages. He is emotionally present and genuine and then you feel like he wants you out of there and he doesn't want to look at you... It sounds sometimes like something very important to talk about
quote:
Last time I said my usual "it's ok" and wanted to move away but I noticed that he was still holding me and didn't release his hold. So half conciously I realized that it's fine to stay like that a little longer. After a while I noticed that he is letting me go very very gently so I let go of him and I looked into his eyes and gave him this big smile. And it just happend beyond my control. I think that was something different.


It takes two to hug Wink

For a long time, I felt like the hugs I was getting were something I was stealing, something that meant so much to me, but he couldn't care less, like it was a chore. I almost always initiated them. I felt grateful and guilty about each one.

It took him quite a while to convince me that he likes hugs too, that I'm not just selfishly taking something from him, but giving too.

I love your story, I can feel your connection through your words, and It's warm Smiler
Dragonfly, I would agree with your thought that your T is teaching you a valuable lesson - that touch can be safe and nurturing. I was always wary of any touch from my T because I used to constantly mix her up in my mind when I was recalling stuff. But now I have learned that touch is ok and helpful for me. I can ask my T to hold my hand when I feel scared about disclosing something and feel the support of another human being straight away. I am therefore not on my own anymore and just having my hand held tight feels strengthening and reaffirming, especially coming from another woman who knows all about me and still wants to hold my hand when I am feeling bad or unclean. I also give and receive hugs, which serve exactly the same purpose - so I guess I am so lucky that my T is comfortable to do this. I would find it difficult not to now. I nearly always hug her at the end of my session as a sort of unspoken thank you . . more than words ever could . .

I do not I think have any difficult attachment issues with my T (amazing!! about the only problem I seem not to have!!! LOL) so that might make the issue of touch seem less of a problem.

Echo, I would reiterate what Dragonfly said so very well that it upsets me too that you don't get even basic contact from your T. I know if I have sessions when I don't feel quite connected to my T, the I am realy far less likely to open up. Eye contact is so important - my T reminds me to look at her in the eyes when I really really don't want to, at those times when I am so consumed with guilt and shame that I can't bear to even acknowledge that she is there. . . at those times she looks at me and hold my hand and tells me none of it is my fault and that is so so powerful and validating. Could you ever tell your T how it makes you feel when they don't look at you, or would that feel way too hard??? Sometimes things sound easy to say but doing it is another matter!!!

Dragonfly I think it was brave of you to tell your T not to do a certain thing to you and risk no further comforting. That must have been hard. I am glad that you and your T have worked through that.

I feel I am a cold fish sometimes when it comes to touch, not socially or with my family, but it times of distress I push people away and hate to be touched. Through my T I am learning that I can be comforted without the consequences of something far worse happening as a result of that touch and that is a huge lesson for me.

starfish
Touch is a really tricky subject for me. Generally, I have a hard time allowing touch when I'm in distress or feeling upset or consumed with self-hate.

My situation in therapy went like this. I'm seeing my T for over 2 years now and for the entire first year we never touched. Nothing. Nada. In one session I mentioned to him that when I met him I thought he was very cold and aloof because he didn't even offer to shake my hand. At the time I had no idea what boundaries were just thought it was odd that he didn't offer to shake hands. So my T said that he really didn't have any "hand-shake" policy and that if someone offered their hand he would not refuse to shake. I thought about this for awhile and then just a year after I met him it was Christmas and I offered my hand to him at the door at the end of our session wishing him a happy holiday. He warmly shook my hand and wished me the same. That handshake rocked me to my foundations. When we met after the holidays I offered my hand again and he took it and then the next session he wanted to talk about it and while I was afraid he would be critical he was in fact, very impressed that I would initiate the contact in a handshake. He saw it as progress in my asking for something I needed. I shyly told him that I offered my hand because I did not know what his hug policy was LOL. He looked uncomfortable and didn't say anything and so I figured... well that's it... no hugs here.

And so for six months I would ocassionally initiate a handshake not wanting to wear out the priviledge LOL. And ocassionally my T would make contact with me like a pat on the shoulder or arm when I was leaving. Then one day I was there for my birthday. We had a really good session and when I left he put his hand on my shoulder in what I thought was his regular 'pat" but instead he sort of drew me in for a nice big hug. I think it surprised both of us. He told me he thought I wanted one and although I really did I would never have asked.

The next session was a bit arkward with no hug or handshake and he sort of avoided walking me to the door. Not being one to let things go at the next session I mentioned it and then I read him something I wrote about touch. I wanted him to know where I stood on the issue in case he felt upset about the hug. I told him that I believed that he taught me safe touch and that I never had that growing up. Touch was hurtful and abusive. He taught me that there is a place for non-sexual safe touch that asks nothing back from me. That I was not repulsive to him and that I deserved to have that comfort. I told him when he hugged me I felt safe, comforted and at great peace for those few seconds. I also told him that I knew he would never make touch abusive or harmful to me.

He seemed relieved to hear all of this and since then we hug sometimes, we handshake sometimes or we do nothing sometimes. He mostly leaves it to me to initiate but sometimes will ask me if I need a hug. It seems to work out well for us because for the most part we are very attuned to each other and I do know that if I ever feel uncomfortable at how this is going I can talk to him about it.

It's a really hard topic because Ts all have their own take on hugs and touch. In general my T has pretty good boundaries and I don't push them and so this works for us. I do believe each case is different and Ts make their own decisions as to what they are comfortable with. I think the most important aspect of touch is that you can both discuss it and explore what it means and why or why not your T will allow it.

TN
BB, that must be really difficult... knowing that there is this huge distance between you and your T...
... that he is not even in the same room, not in the same city... You can see his face only...
it's so difficult to imagine... I think the physical presence is so important. I wonder how much of the body expressions you manage to see. For me it's very important to see his relaxed posture, it makes me feel safe, I'm in good hands of someone who is stronger and more confident then me, so I can be weak with him...
When I don't see my T I know at least that he must be somewhere within few kilometers... I freak out now a bit since I am flying home for a couple of days and that will be the first time for me to be so far, far away...

To be honest I also didn't like for people to touch me. I got annoyed. But then on the other hand I think I always craved man's loving touch... and the only one I received was when I started having sex with guys. I think it was not quite what I needed. I wasn't abused as a child, but in my family we didn't touch each other much. Hardly ever. And I never wanted to go near my father. Almost only touch I got from him was when he hit me.
And with my T now I think I am making a discovery. It's something so beautiful and amazing. It didn't exist for me before.
Oh, and as much as I didn't really like people to touch me I didn't find it annoying when he patted my shoulder when I was leaving from my first session. And he always does it, there is always this gentle "take care" pat. All of this is so amazing, it's the most beautiful thing that has ever happened to me.
Hi dragonfly... good question. I think that the difference is that I could hug and receive hugs from people when I was feeling okay with myself and the hugs were mostly on my terms. I don't have an aversion to all touch. It is just when I'm hating myself, or hurt, or sad that I cannot accept hugs or touch from anyone. Example... if I fell down and hurt myself and people come running to help or help pick me up... I just scream "get away from me, don't touch me, leave me alone, go away". Or if I'm very sad, crying or in one of my "black moods" that I cannot tolerate any touch. I want to shrivel up in to a ball and hide. The difference is now it's okay for my T to hug me or pat my shoulder, even when I'm feeling so damaged and defective. His touch is safe and healing and in a way wonderous. Why would he want to make contact with me after the things I tell him? It's something I'm still struggling with. I'm not sure if this will carry over to people around me in general. I guess only time will tell.
...so I counted 5 hugs, 3 last ones where real and most important.
Then he refused to hug me, when I asked for it and it was so painful... that was the most painful thing that happened so far in my therapy.
He says I can't have a hug every time, but it's ok to ask for it. I replied that I'm not going to ask if it's supposed to hurt like this, because it really did hurt me.
I don't understand. I thought that maybe like Z, I will stop counting but the hugs will not stop. I felt so safe and happy. It was a hug that was not asking for anything from me, just giving everything I needed. It was the safest place on Earth.
Perhaps he is trying to tell me, teach me something, but I don't understand.
I'm so sorry, Amazon. The whole hugs thing is really a difficult subject to deal with, isn't it? Did you have a chance to talk to him about it, more than telling him that you're not going to ask if it's going to hurt so much? Did he respond to what you said to him?

I got my first real hugs from my T at my last session and it was a really strange experience. She has always given me a "side" hug on the way down the hall to the exit, but she does that with most all of her patients, as it's just her way. But to have had such an emotionally charged session and then get 3 hugs in one visit was a lot for me to process. After that I went home feeling like a little child who had been torn away from her mother and was longing to be reunited with her at any cost. It hurt that I couldn't have her and it made me angry that her hugs would evoke such a powerful response in me and that I had no control over when I could experience those strong feelings of love and security from someone; that it wasn't something I could really rely on getting any and every time I want it, just because I want it, so I can sort of understand the hurt that having your desire for a hug rejected could cause you to feel.

I would ask him about it; is he trying to tell you or teach you something? You have the right to ask, and I'm learning the hard way that it's really easier and quicker to just get it over with and ease your mind by putting it out there as soon as possible.
I get held a lot in therapy, most of my sessions for the past two months have me being held by my T who is also a woman. It took a year of working with her to admit I needed that.
I feel so much better when she holds me.but I also get in touch with more of the little girl feelings in me and she is full of need and stroppy wanting and so the therapist is beginning to say no to be emailing her imbetween and occasional text messages, which is fair but I am HATING it.
though I know she is right really.
I have been in therapy for 10 months and have recently found myself wanting to be held by my therapist. The nature of what we are working ion at the moment means I feel very alone, upset and lost. She did give me a hug initially when I wrote down in my journal that I needed that, but has since said I must ask for one if I want one, as I have communication issues. I know she is just trying to get me to communicate with her, but I just can't, so I am currently VERY angry and frustrated at myself and her!!! Any suggestions as to how I can move this on? Thanks
Welcome, Sparkle...I don't have anything to add about asking for a hug, since I never even could ask for one since I don't see my T in realtime- but I just wanted to welcome you...I hope you can at least ask for a hug, even if the answer is no. AG wrote a lot about this...I'm sure if you look back through, you will find how she dealt with this problem, and it might help you.

BB
Sparkle, I am new here too so not sure how meaningful you will find what I say but I notice you say that you have asked for a hug in your journal and yor T gave you one. Would it be possible to talk to your T about how hard you are finding it to communicate your needs and perhaps together you could think of some kind of motion you could do instead of words. Not sure whether that would help.
Sparkle and Butterfly,
I'm kind of on the fly right now, but wanted to say welcome to the forum! Sparkle, I did a LOT of work with my T about learning to ask for what I needed and it could get quite frustrating. I had learned a long time ago to not ask for what I needed because I didn't want to experience hearing no again and the pain that evoked. So I only asked for things outright that I already KNEW I could get. If I wasn't sure then I would drop hints or do something manipulative to try and get it. My T was a stone wall on this one, which turned out to be really good for me.

quote:
Any suggestions as to how I can move this on?

Yes, but you're probably not going to like them. Big Grin First, I totally understand being angry with your T, you've told her how you feel why can't she just do it? But I believe she's sacrificing making you feel better in the here and now so that you feel much better in the long run. She is doing this from a place of care.

As far as moving on, the only thing that ever worked for me was to just walk into the fear and do it anyway. Every time you can do this, it gets a scintilla easier the next time, until finally after a long tunnel of chaos, terror and confusion (isn't therapy fun? Big Grin) it won't be scary anymore.

Good to meet both of you, I'm looking forward to getting to know you.

AG
Well, I am as prepared far better than I have ever been for tomorrow. If I can't speak about what I'm feeling/needing, I have written it in my journal and I will give it to my therapist to read.

I'm really glad I stumbled across this site, I feel very supported and its good to know that others feel just as I do about a fair few things!!x
I hope you manage to get a hug. I mumbled it the first time and she did not hear and asked what I said (ARRGGHHH) but then I tried again, and she did. So now I say
rather bluntly
I want holding
and she knows I die asking
and she makes it easy for me
If she said no
i would be mortified
and she has not said no yet
But I think I had to work with her for 13 months before she was able to and I was able to ask. Maybe she always would have , but I remember early on asking and she said ' ask your husband for a hug when you get home' which I interpreted as a no.
But actually she can tell when I am in small child mode and it is no use interacting with me in adult mode then, as I can't hear and don't make sense and I just want HOLDING.
So i hope you asked, All my therapists have held me, and one, that I interviewed, said he would never hug, so I walked out, I knew I needed that. Smiler
well, that didn't go as well as I hoped. I did manage to communicate why I find it so hard to ask for a hug, but I still didn't manage to ask for one and I didn't get one. She said it would happen intime and when I had worked through the conflict of why I find it hard to ask. Feel like I let myself down by not asking for what I need, but feel angry with her for not hugging me anyway!
I am sorry you didn't get the hug that you were after Sparkle, your T is definitely making you work for it but at least you know that it is something that is possible. Well done for sharing why you find it so hard asking for one, that was really brave. I am sure you will work up the courage soon enough to ask for one.

Butterfly
My therapist always always hugs me. She calls me sweety and baby too. It's all motherly. She is so maternal toward me. I cry so much lately she puts her chair next to me and she will hold my hand and I put my head in her chest or lap and cry she will rub my back or pat my leg . She will even walk up to me and hug me and ouch my hair. It's healing for me I love and adore her she helps me too she an be tough love at times but mainly she shows so much Comfort with all my traumas but I think I like being sad now because I like all the attention she shows me ...
States of mind and emotions can be addictive indeed when the result is registered as positive (example, staying angry to be safe yields the positive result of perceived safety - just as you are saying sadness brings attention). A good T will help you move along with this. My T sounds similar to yours, but she has told me sometimes people can get stuck and become unwilling to heal. I'm glad she is there for you in a way that brings you comfort, eventually you will see that all sorts of emotions can be experienced with the same level of connection (physical, emotional, spiritual whatever). One of the things I adore about my Ts is that I receive the same care on my worst day and my best - it makes it easy not to get stuck in an action or feeling thinking (consciously or not) that would be the only way to meet my needs. Children learn to manipulate their surroundings also (but eventually learn that love is not situational) so I think it's normal and a normal development stage. Sometimes even things like ruptures with T/relationship can become addictive as it's seen as the only path to love and comfort (the reconnect and repair process as Ts can be exceptionally comforting at this time). It's funny how touch is like that too!
As much as a hug might be nice in some contexts I am so very very grateful my T has never offered and has never ever put a hand on me or even near me.

I am going through some transference issues with her, but even the notion of her touching me or even moving her chair half a foot closer gives me chills.

I realise I'm possibly in the minority feeling this way, but I cannot even cope with having a telephone conversation with her (we never have done so by the way). The mere idea if it - yuck. Too close, too threatening for me.

I have a massive fear of being invaded, emotionally. my mother was extremely emotionally abusive and interactions with her felt like emotional rape. That is the only words I can use to describe it. And so I have a huge fear of it happening again - even though the logical part of my brain knows my T is very trustworthy and would never hurt me.
My T has flat out told me he will say no if I ask for a hug. He told me honestly he gives hugs to his other clients, but he won't give me one. I forgot why it came up because I've never asked or implied wanting one. It hurt my feelings tremendously when he said it, but I just shut down and didn't say a thing afterward. Maybe one day I'll have the courage to ask him why he treats me differently.

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