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HI Frosty,

sorry you are feeling so bad right now. I am a little confused about the insurance issue. You only have seven sessions left total? And then you can't see her or consult T?

IMHO, this sounds more about her wanting you to make progress and "help" you in those seven sessions you have left as opposed to giving you what you really need. I'm glad you are going on the consult.

It sounded like a really frustrating and awful session.

((((HUGS)))

Liese
((((PF))))

Your T sounds out of line when she told you, "We aren't going there again". This is YOUR therapy and if you need to revisit something, she better damn well be willing to revisit it!

It sounds like your therapy right now is a little bit too much about T and Ts feelings, frustrations, expectations, than it is about YOUR needs.

I'm sorry. It sounds like a really bad session and I know how difficult it can be to end on a bad note and then have to wait another week to talk again.
Frosty... I'm so sorry you had a terrible session and are facing the end of therapy (?) I didn't understand that part too well.

What really concerns me is that your T seems to be making all of this about her. Where she wants you to go and what makes her feel good and not what you need. I'm sad for you that you had to SI and then you could not even talk to her about it. She seems to make a huge deal out of things that most T's take in stride. Maybe this is just not a good fit for you. Maybe a consult would help or just a switch of T.

I hope you are okay

TN
Frosty. Frowner I'm sorry. I had no idea your therapy might be ending soon. I can't believe T wouldn't let you direct what you wanted to discuss. If you are trying to bring up something you've been over before, it's obviously because it hasn't been fully/satisfactorily addressed and T should be willing to explore it as much as you feel you need to. That makes me angry. ((((((((((((Frosty)))))))))))))) I wish I could make it better. I'm glad you came here for support. It's OK to just come for that, you know? You don't always have to give. Sometimes people get in a place where they just need to receive and that's OK!!!
permafrost,
I am sorry you had such a difficult session. It sounds like your T is feeling the pressure of only having 7 sessions left and is forgetting that even if she has your best interest at heart wanting you to make progress, that people don't generally feel motivated by these kinds of tactics. More importantly, your needs in therapy are not and should not be based on what she wants for you and most certainly not on what makes her feel good or effective. I am really sorry that you are not feeling accepted or understood and that you are feeling blamed on top of it. Frowner
seablue
Frosty

I would feel very pressurised having a set amount of sessions, no wonder this is so hard for you.

I really feel that her job is to go with you at your pace and revisit issues for as often as you need her to

quote:
Then she said: “I’m not going there with you again, miss permafrost!!”



Hmmmm, I don't like that frosty. My T says that sometimes we need to go over and over work we have done many times before, as each time there will be new understanding and realisations. Sometimes I know she is light years ahead of my understanding of where I am at a particular moment, but she never lets on Wink instead allows me to work at my own pace.

I am sure it would feel easier for your T NOT to revisit those particlar difficulties, but that is her job. I agree with TN's thought that it seems to be more about her, rather than about you. I know that part of CBT is based around a set number of sessions, so that is probably adding to the difficulty on both sides I guess.

Sorry it's so hard ((((((frosty)))))

starfishy
PF,

I'm sorry that you are facing the end of therapy before you are ready. I agree that it seems that you and your T are stuck and she seems to be defensive and making this about her feelings. She sounds frustrated from what you describe.

I'm not sure if you are in the U.S. or not, but most insurance companies provide more than the initial # of sessions they approve. Many have a cap that they will allow yearly, but with the new mental health parity laws that has eased up with many plans. I'm also wondering if CBT isn't the right type of therapy for you and what you are dealing with. SI and the issues that it can stem from don't typically lend themselves to that type of work as the sole method of therapy. I have listed links to finding T's that practice other methods in previous threads (I can find them if you like) if that is something you are interested in. Do you have the ability to pay for T out of pocket outside of insurance benefits?

I am sorry this is so hard. The work done in T is hard enough without constantly butting heads with your T in the process.
quote:
It does seem like *she* is tired of going there but that is not my problem. I'm tired of justifying myself


I agree. Perhaps if you both feel stuck she could start to look at a different way of solving the issues. Smetimes if you approach a problem from a different angle the things that were hazy before sometimes become clearer. My T is a very big ideas person....I often think that I've exhausted something because it feels like I'm getting nowhere, but she has taught me to maybe try a different approach. So yes, I think your idea of writing down how you feel about this issue is a good one. Sometimes just seeing thoughts written can spark new insights. Don't know if that helps at all.....

starfish
quote:
Originally posted by permafrost:
Aren't you all tired of me yet? Frowner I'm so stuck, I can't think outside the box.


Nooooo!! Definitely not tired of you!
quote:

And I'm so worried that I am the one creating these problems. Oh god, I don't want to be that awful person who turns everything around so that the other person is to blame no matter what.


From what yuo described it seems that you are feeling this way because of the way your T related to you in your session. Regardless of whether you are able to do what she expects (the work she expects from her clients), there is nothing wrong with you and you are not to blame. If the therapy is not helping, it seems like a good indication that either the relationship isn't ideal or that CBT may not be the best therapeutic modality for you. Also, I really think you have a right to direct your therapy more than she is allowing. It seems to be about her needs and not yours. Frowner (I know I already said that.)

I really am sorry you are struggling with this. I know it is so unsettling when the relationship feels off or we feel disconnected from Ts. I also hope you are able to get more sessions after the remaining 7.

((((permafrost))))
seablue
Frosty

quote:
starfishy, do you think I can give her what I write or should I keep it for myself and see what I can come up with?


Top tip .....give her what you write, but give it at the start of the session before you have chance to bottle out Big Grin Whenever I give T anything I write, even if I think it's information she already knows, I am amazed at how helpful she finds it. I guess it comes from the heart and is written outside of the session when you are less likely to get swayed by shame or embarassment.

starfish
((((( Frosty )))))

I am so so sorry you are going through such an awful time with your T. I know you've had ongoing problems with her recently but I didn't realize that your therapy was time-limited, which rather creates an even bigger problem Frowner

On the face of it, it does sound like because the sessions are limited that she is trying to make the most of the time by pushing you, and is unaware of how that's damaging you. Also, that her approach is CBT makes some sense, in that from what I understand of CBT it's very much a here are the tools this is what you need to do now get on with it type of therapy - so the fact that you are having issues with how she relates to you in session isn't top of her list of 'things to resolve with miss permafrost'.

But some of the things she's said to you and the way she's said them strike me as very untherapeutic, regardless of the style of therapy. From what you've said, it really doesn't sound at all like you are feeling this way or bringing up these things in order to avoid facing your issues, whatever comes up in therapy is the 'issue'... whether it's an avoidance (which I don't think it is in this case) resistance denial or whatever...

Why do you think you feel that you might be avoiding? And why do you feel that you are looking to 'blame' - this sounds like an old pattern?

Gotta agree with Starfish about giving T what you write - if you could write out all the things that are bothering you and hone it down to some really simple clear statements and even ask her direct questions, that would be a really good way of getting her to focus on what YOU need to resolve in the therapy. Do you want to practise writing ideas out here? That way you will be writing to an 'audience' and that might make you more able to articulate exactly what you need to say to her...

I hope you can sort something out to your advantage in all of this, it must be pretty frightening thinking that you may run out of therapy time altogether. Is there any way you can check into ensuring that you can have continuing therapy, whether with current T or with a new therapist? That sounds like a really important issue to be sorting out at this point, so maybe you could bring that up with your T as a priority?

Best of luck with this Frosty

LL
Frosty,

I didn't read through all of the responses so forgive me if someone suggested this but something occurred to me re: the insurance issue. My insurance company gives me 30 visits per year unless my diagnosis is biologically based, in which case they are unlimited. My T initially gave me the diagnosis of adjustment disorder first and anxiety second. Anxiety is biologically based but adjustment disorder is not. And, so T just switched them around and put anxiety disorder first. And, so I'm wondering if there is something similar your T can do with you, based on the contract you have with your insurance company. Smiler Just a thought.

Liese

P.S. My T is CBT but as everyone knows we have a pretty long relationship. According to consult T, the T has to adjust to meet the clients needs and not the other way around: the client can't be expected to fit into the T's orientation.
quote:
Aren't you all tired of me yet? I'm so stuck, I can't think outside the box. And I'm so worried that I am the one creating these problems. Oh god, I don't want to be that awful person who turns everything around so that the other person is to blame no matter what.


Oh ((((frosty)))) as if - never!! You've received some wonderful input here so I won't weigh in except to second Starfishy's suggestion of
quote:
give her what you write, but give it at the start of the session before you have chance to bottle out Whenever I give T anything I write, even if I think it's information she already knows, I am amazed at how helpful she finds it. I guess it comes from the heart and is written outside of the session when you are less likely to get swayed by shame or embarassment.
You know how often I use this strategy and it does work!
Love
Morgs
Hi Frosty- I haven't read all the responses you've gotten yet- but I just wanted to say, that it seems like you and I are in a similar situation with out T's. For what it's worth- my T has said that he doesn't believe in CBT because he doesn't believe it goes deep enough. Yet he seems very similar to yours in wanting me to address goals and deal with my primary relationships, and gets frustrated (projection, maybe, maybe not) with me for putting his needs first, in other words trying to get something out of the relationship that isn't there, which would be for *him* to need something from me. So maybe it's an issue of them not wanting it to make the relationship about trying to please them, then not wanting us to make the therapy about the relationship...and it's just hard for us to differentiate that, because it sounds like the smae thing to us- does that make sense? Idk. It's real confusing.

I relate very much to needing to write to a person, who will read what we have to say and comment on it- in order for it to feel like we even *have* something to say. I think that has it's roots in emotional neglect, most likely. And I think it's totally acceptable to meet that need by posting here- to people who *do* have an interest in what you have to say about it and about your situation. So- I think that is the basic value of this place- where else can we talk to people about the in depth stuff that comes up for us in therapy, who will understand and commiserate and give feedback...y'know? We care and are in it too, with ya, kiddo! Keep on posting- it's healthy.

If you are comfortable to share your letter with us, you are most welcome to do so, and I for one, will read it! I'm sure others will too. Smiler

big hugs,

BB
Hey Frosty- I think what I mean, is that it can seem like the T doesn't want to make the therapy about the relationship between therapist and client, when maybe, they are just trying to make the relationship not be about *them* and their own emotional satisfaction. I find this issue hugely confusing myself. Let me see...
For example- say you asked T "do you like me?" From her perspective as a T, that would be focusing on her needs (to get pleasure out of the relationship, for her to feel good and get personal enjoyment out of counseling relationship with you) So, she might not be willing to "go there again." (but I could be really misinterpreting what has happened here.) However- if you were to try to talk to her about how bad it feels to want her to like you and enjoy you, and how difficult it feels to you when she gets frustrated with you for wanting to please her and get her approval (testing that relationship boundary...) How would do you predict she might take that conversation? that conversation is a much more vulnerable and difficult one to have, kwim, because it is about *your* feelings- not hers.
It's so hard. That being said- I agree with the concept that it shouldn't be *so* hard, that the T is having no mercy on us. But- I think (maybe) they do have to push us our of our comfort zone at times if we want to grow. and maybe that feels really bad, when we aren't even sure if we want to grow. I so relate. I get really confused with this concept too. does this make any sense?
Hey- yeah, then they should say that, shouldn't they Frosty? If they want honest communication from us, then they should be able to communicate that honestly to us- in the moment, like they want us to do- yeah. Talk about "modeling behavior."

Just to clarify in case it's not- I offered this only by way of "food for thought," just something to ponder in your situation-and not as a judgement on whether or not I think your T is handling things well. I can't really say that for sure, since I'm not able to judge it for myself in my own situation, y'know?

hugs,

BB
Frosty thanks for the update and of course we want to hear about consult T. I hope they grant you more sessions as you make the move to psychotherapy. Seems like you should not be penalized for being in the wrong kind of therapy for your issues. I'm glad to hear that you and your T were able to have such an honest conversation and that she is acting in your best interest.

Good luck tomorrow.

TN
(((((Frosty)))))) I'm glad that she was able to receive and understand you and let you know that her not being able to help you isn't anything deficient in you, but that she just isn't able to provide the depth you need. She validated what you said you needed and wants you to get it. And she likes you. Smiler

I'm sorry that you won't be able to get more sessions (I know you like your T and it's easy to get attached), but hoping that you can figure out the best environment for you by discussing with consult T. ((((((((((((Frosty)))))))))))
Hey, Frosty...I'm glad to hear that your T owned not being able to go deep enough to help you. That must be a huge burden lifted..it's not your fault, it's her inability, and she admitted it. It doesn't mean you "can't be helped" rather, that she doesn't have the tools that you need. But you know this, I just want to re-state it. I know it is so hard to think of re-telling your story to another T- but, there can be healing in that, too, especially if it is a person who really knows how to listen in a good way. I continue to be impressed with your resolve to find the help you need. I know the "stuckness" you are dealing with- and though it is no fun, that you want help getting unstuck shines right through, so give yourself some well-deserved credit..

Ok, gotta go for now, but very interested in hearing your update about your consult and how that stuff all turns out...

hug,

BB
(((Frosty)))

Is there any way you could have her maybe go every other week or even just skip one week, so the sessions end at a different time? Maybe if you let her know that you're trying to make a healthy choice and process one thing ending at a time?

I think it's natural to grieve and mourn, even if therapy hasn't gone as you felt you needed/wanted it to. You have shared a piece of yourself with this person and moving away from someone is always hard! It's always OK to vent and I hope you keep doing it as long as it is making you feel better.
quote:
Originally posted by permafrost:
I'm sitting here crying because I can't believe I messed this up. I spent 9 months doing "nothing", question the only person who ever tried to help me.


((((((((((permafrost)))))))))))
YOU did NOT mess anything up. Discovering that you are ready for a different type of therapy is progress in your journey...and it took going through what you have in the past 9 mos. to realize it. AND.....YOU realized it before your T even did. frosty (can I call you that?), I spent 2 full years with a CBT T feeling like I was doing, feeling, saying the wrong things and trying to please her by attempting to figure out what she wanted to hear and then telling her that. I can look at it as wasted time but I really believe if I hadn't spent that time with her I would not have been ready to work with my current psychodynamic T and make the progress I have made with her. I am sure you must be so worried and so sad about having to possibly end and give up the support of T (your current or another). Frowner Will you get more sessions at some point? Even if not immediately? (Sorry, I am not sure how it works where you are.) It must feel really scary to be facing this and I am so sorry you are hurting right now. Your journey WILL continue. I really hope tomorrow (maybe it's already today for you Smiler) goes well and I REALLY REALLY hope you get more sessions.

Most of all....I really hope you can be gentle with yourself. You haven't done anything wrong. Frowner Smiler
seablue
Frosty,

Is it possible that current T is undereducated about how the insurance works? I would bring it up to her and let her know that you were feeling tricked and misled, if you feel you can trust her with those feelings.

Also, consult T sounds nice and the big sister in me immediately wanted to say, "F--- your mom!" for such an insensitive comment. Ugh. I know she loves you (as she has gone into a session with you) and wants the best for you in her own way, I'm sure, but to have your needs disparaged in such a way...I don't think you ever need to question whether you "deserve" to be in therapy...ever again! Seriously. I don't know if it is transference stuff with my own mom, but it made me very angry.

Is it possible to do some consults with some Psychologists/Psychiatrists and see if you can find one you like that will be covered? Maybe have consult T or the person you wanted to see (I think they were all booked up for months) refer you to some your insurance would cover? Since you aren't already attached to consult T and it seems like your family won't support you seeing her, it's probably good to shop around now, while you still have the support of your current T.
quote:
seabluey (someone creative please find a nickname ).


Not creative, but how about sea? Smiler

I agree with yaku. You absolutely *deserve* the support of therapy!! I hope that you can tell your T what you learned about your insurance covering sessions under certain conditions and see what she has to say. It's very possible she may not be aware but either way, you would be honoring yourself by letting her know that you know.

Thinking of you frosty.....
sea Smiler

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