Hi AG

Firstly, can I ask you to breathe? I know that sometimes you have written on this forum that you can forget to do this..... so please take the time now to take a few deep breaths in and out.

Ok, are you still with me? Either that or you are reaching for the html slapper to use on me!!

Everything you wrote makes complete sense (your fear of termination, your frustration with your DH OT, your work colleague leaving, your daughter / health issurance phone calls).

Someone wrote in the book "In Session" something along the lines that the most frustrating aspect of therapy is that we will still be human at the end of it (ie: still not perfect). God damn it!

Yes, the grief is intense and the pain is bad but to ask "what's the point?" is just so invalidating. AG, perhaps it's too hard for you to validate yourself right now so hopefully I can try and normalise that what you are feeling is ok / fine / normal / to be expected.

My T tells me again & again & again that I will reach a point when I know it's time to cut back our sessions. My T really isn't into the whole idea of just stopping but rather going from weekly sessions to fortnightly - sometimes for ages - and then reducing again. But the door is always open. I wrote here once before that she said termination should be renamed "graduation from therapy with reunions as required".

Now AG, what I write next may not be of any interest to you but I want to say it anyway....

... and if you really don't like it feel free to let me know and I can delete it.

AG, perhaps it is too hard (even unrealistic?) to go cold turkey.... and even if it feels too hard to go to fortnightly appointments instead of weekly, perhaps this is why it would be so useful to do it? Remember that you have already tackled so many hard issues before so I am confident that you can face this one too. Perhaps it would even be good for you to realise that this ending doesn't have to be all or nothing - that this is an opportunity to prove to yourself that ending doesn't have to have an end date - that it can be so much more flexible than that. Who's going to care when we die how long we saw our T's for? If they are helping us, making us happy and we are still growing (even if we only end up checking in monthly / yearly / or just a written update now & then) then who cares about having a perfect therapy ending? Right now it seems to painful for you and my instinct tells me that you are not ready to end with perhaps the big full stop that you seem to so desperately want. My T & I agree that when I reach the end, that instead of me "crying b/c it's over, I will smile b/c it happened" (ie: that I had the chance to experience a positive, healthy relationship with my T and learn so much from the therapy experience itself).

Maybe even use fortnightly sessions as a way of going in for "show & tell" - look at what situations I managed on my own - but also use it as an opportunity for further growth and support when you do run into tricky situations or those unexpected events that life throws at all or us now & then.

I think I am finally getting comfortable with the idea that my T is my support base - one who I will grow to need less & less - but like a parent, she is a person who I still need to connect and check in with for many more years to come. Doesn't the whole idea of abrupt / final termination go against all the work we have done with dealing with an attachment disorder?

I know you could survive without your T. I know that you understand that you could. I know that your probably could accept it if you had too. But why do it? Why go cold turkey when you could continue to see this person - to share your future wins with? Yes, he will be the T and those boundaries will stay in place - but isn't reducing a far less all or nothing way of managing a termination - and possibly a more successful one (and happier option even?) in the long run?

Alright, that's it - just think about it ok?

I am sending you big hugs and am thinking of you - and I hope the sun starts to shine again for you real soon.

I'm OK

((AG)) So sorry for the pain you are feeling. Sounds like there is frustration in there also? I understand. I have recently gone to every other week with my T and I really don't like it. We haven't really discussed it in a while but I might bring it up. It seems like so long in between. I can e-mail her but sometimes it takes her forever to get back to me. Unless it is urgent she takes her time answering. I agree that maybe you should just slow down instead of going cold turkey. If you're not ready, you're not ready. There's no time limit and no right way to do therapy. You just do what you need to when you need to. I'll be thinking of you and sending out lots of ((((())))))

Smiley

((((AG)))))

BB

{{{{{{{{{AG}}}}}}}}}

I can really hear and feel your pain right now and I‘m so sorry you are going through it. Like you said, there‘s nothing any of us can say to make the pain go away or even lessen it right now. If I could translate your post into simple terms, it sounds like you are saying you just need to be held. If you were my daughter I would just hold you while you cry or rage or express yourself in any other way you need to.
Like my daughter, I really really hate that I can’t take the pain away for you. I think that’s why I like this figurine so much…so please consider yourself “held”. And please hold on to us as well, and post as much as you need to, to work through this pain in your life.

I was going to post my usual picture of a hug, but I found this one and liked it better because it's called "Chrysalis" and that made me think of transformation and change into something even more beautiful, which is what I think is happening for you (more on that below):



I don’t know if this next part will be helpful, but I just wanted to describe some other impressions that came to mind as I was reading your post. Your description of all the challenges and changes in your life right now started to sound a little familiar…especially losing your friend at work, like the straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back…and then I realized, it made me think of the year your female T retired, and all the challenges and losses that happened at the same time. How it felt so overwhelming, like what is God thinking? How can I possibly handle all of this?

Something else that comes to mind is kind of a parallel to the Clan of the Cave Bear series I love so much. (I wish I could draw a parallel to LOTR but this’ll have to do). It is the story of a woman named Ayla who goes through a lot of hardships, and how her character is shaped and strengthened, not only by the hardships, but by her responses to them. At the beginning of the series, when she is only five years old, she is swimming by herself when an earthquake hits and kills her whole family. (She actually ends up forgetting the event, and her family, because the loss was so traumatic, except she dreams about the earth shaking sometimes and wakes up feeling scared and sad.) She almost dies, but eventually she is found and raised by a group of Neanderthals. Now the details of her life with them is the bulk of the first story, but at the end of it she is “death-cursed” by the new leader of the group, which means she has to leave her family and her son…and right then, another earthquake takes the life of the man who raised her. So throughout the rest of the series she has a particular hatred of earthquakes, not only for the obvious reasons, but because they always seem to bring wrenching changes and losses.

As the reader of the story (especially because I’ve read it so many times), I can see ahead to what’s coming, the next stage of her life, so I know that along with the losses, she’s also going to receive many blessings in the next book, and be a blessing to others in return. And each loss and blessing contributes its own shaping and strengthening effect on the woman she is becoming, and what she has to offer later on…kind of like the carver’s knife, or the potter’s hand. And through it all she becomes a woman of amazing strength, humility, courage, wisdom. And even though she goes through some extremely deep sorrows, she also experiences a lot of joy. I think the same is true for you.

But she never stops hating the earthquakes. All the shifting and changing going on in your life right now sounds like another earthquake. You’ve described how all the changes the year your female T retired led to opportunities for further growth later on, that you couldn’t possibly have predicted at the time. Maybe that is what is happening again? I don’t know…but I’m so sorry you are having to experience the pains of change and loss. I can really understand why they’re knocking you off balance, and I hope you come here as much as possible for support.

Hugs,
SG

Ag,

You sound like me- so that can't be good.

Why are you being so hard on yourself? Who says (besides you) that you should leave therapy?

Who (besides you) is putting a time table on all of this.

I am hearing "I should because..." (you finish it)

Therapy is to get away from the shoulds and back to the needs. I am not hearing that you are quite ready to leave therapy. I am thinking that the threat of leaving is further triggering attachment stuff for you, so let it be for a while. Your wonderful therapist (and I know this by wht you have written) understands the many facets of you, and if he didn't 1. He'd be a lousy T, and 2. He would have shown you the door himself.
Enjoy the fact that he gets you on a very deep level- and he does not get angry because he understands where all of this is coming from.
With all you have going on- keep the appointments that are good and working for you. How many times I have read from you- It is about our needs.
I am guessing that when you are ready to leave- the attachment will have mellowed into a warm friendship, knowing that door is always open for you to come back.

Notice I said- "I am guessing".

Be good to yourself.

the Serenity Prayer just came to my mind- do you know it? If not I will share it with you later.

I have conferences to attend.

Hi AG,

I'm so sorry you're hurting so much right now. I think you've got some great support and advice so far, and I just wanted to throw my own two cents in here. I agree that nothing any of us says can take away the pain you're feeling, but hopefully the fact that we care and support you will help a little.

I agree with I'm OK, so feel free to pull out the HTML slapper here. I think you're really pushing yourself too hard to finish therapy before you need to and I have no real idea WHY? I have every confidence in you that you can manage life without your T, but 'hear' that you long for the relationship and the emotional support that you get from him, and that is totally normal, healthy, and to be expected. I have the same dilemma. I told my T when I read her my letter in March that I feel like the day I quit therapy is going to feel like I'm walking away from her funeral. She told me she doesn't ever cut people off cold turkey. I'm sure you know I see her only once every two weeks already (and I'm jealous of those of you that see your Ts more often than that, but can see how that would make it harder to cut back on the frequency), but she would then cut me back to once a month for a while, then every other month for a while, then once every four months for a year, then we would see about being done; it's not something you just decide to end on a certain day. This is a very important and critical relationship in your life, AG. This man means a lot to you, and even though he can't and won't be anything to you outside of that room, why not take what he CAN be and accept it, enjoy it, make the most of it and not be in such a hurry to get out of there, especially if it's doing this to you? You're the one that wanted to end, right? So you don't have to do this so fast. Give yourself some time and take it at a pace that feels safer. Stressing yourself out and putting yourself into a situation that feels scary isn't what you need. Yeah, pushing yourself outside the 'comfort zone' is necessary for growth, but it's got to be 'doable', too.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know you're loved and being thought of. (((((AG))))) Hang in there, and don't push yourself too hard. You've got loads of time, and you need to take good care of yourself, especially since you've got lots of other stressful stuff going on in your life right now, too. Wish I was as good as you at giving advice and support, because you really need it, but you're amazing and I have seen so much growth and change in you just through all your posts the last couple years and you need to give yourself some serious credit and accept that just because you don't feel you can really gain a whole lot from your T's brilliance anymore it doesn't mean that you can't gain from the relationship and from what it does for you and your other relationships and what it teaches you about yourself. We're always growing and learning--that part never stops, right? Your relationship with your T doesn't have to stop either, at least not until you are okay with it and it feels doable for you.

Take care!
MTF

Hi All,
I am really overwhelmed with all your responses and how much time and effort everyone took to be there for me. Reading all of this has helped more than you can know. I have a lot I want to say in response but I am seriously bagged and attending a seminar for which I need to be up early tomorrow, so I'm going to respond in detail tomorrow. But I wanted you all to know I had read everything everyone has written. And no HTML slappers for anyone! I really appreciate the different insights and takes on my situation, that's part of why I post because I know that other people will see things I don't. Thank you all again, you guys are amazing! I feel so priviledged to be part of this community.

love, AG

Wow AG, I finally came up for air and read some posts. I am so sorry you are hurting.

I do believe there is nothing more powerful than unmet childhood needs....and you T is meeting them for you. Leaving is traumatic all over again. I am so sorry.

I also wonder if you might consider doing the leaving a bit more slowly.....like titrating this a bit more? I believe that when its time to leave a therapeutic relationship, the client feels ready to do so...and doesn't suffer so much....so to me it appears it might not be time for you to leave yet.

I suppose you have already done a lot of work to meet the needs of the young parts in you? So far for me, the best soothing thing I've found is a rocking chair. Its awesome for deep pain such as you are expressing and helps hte young parts feel taken care of and less afraid.

Take good care of you.

Karen

(((((AG)))))....thinking of you...mlc

I'm also thinking of you, AG, and am so sorry to hear all the pain you are in. I will admit that I have been avoiding your threads because they are triggering for me (I'm having my last session tomorrow), but I am still thinking of you.

As IHTS said above, maybe you could try tapering off more slowly? (Actually, she said, "titrating". Hmm... a fellow scientist on here? )

(Hugs))

Dear Ag...how could I say anything to you that might help? It seems like you are pressuring yourself to leave soon, but maybe I am very wrong about that.
I hope so much that you give yourslef permission as you often advice too, to take your time, and not push yourself to do the impossible. Be at peace even in weakness, maybe. Your T will understand.

BB

(((AG)))

I apologize for not posting sooner - I have been reading though, and I am so sorry that you are hurting so badly. I don't have much to add to everyone else's supportive posts, but from what I remember reading on another thread, did you and your T agree on just thinking about ending sometime, but not immediately starting that process? I apologize if I'm not remembering right, but if that was the case, maybe your T is counting on you to go through these things now when you can talk them out with him. Then once the hurt isn't quite as strong and you feel more capable, the actual ending process can begin. As in, you will truly be ready to space out your sessions. I am merely speculating, as I have not gone through this myself, but I figured I'd spit it out just in case it can help.

Hi AG. I've been thinking about you and wondering how you are doing now. Are you feeling any different?
I wonder too, like many others have already said, if the pain your are experiencing is trying to tell you not to rush yourself to be done. It sounds like you are still trying to work through some huge feelings, and since I've never been through it, I wonder how much of that is part of the deal, and how much could be taken as a sign it's not quite time?

Thanks for asking Seablue! Sorry all, I didn't mean to pull a disappearing act. I'm actually feeling much better but the goodbye party for my co-worker was on Friday and my husband had his first day off in three weeks today so posting time and/or the energy to do so has been in short supply.

When I wrote the original post in this thread I was really in a place of deep despair which I have not, thankfully stayed in. I think that I am in the midst of wrestling with letting go of so many of my old ways of thinking and trying to hang onto all the new stuff that I've learned in therapy. I'm also working really hard, I can feel myself really struggling to process so much of how I'm feeling, which is alot and fairly complex. I'm going to try and go through the responses and answer questions as they came up. I do want to say thank you again though, I have so appreciated all the support and insight and comments and concern I've received here, it's helped incredibly.

Dragonfly, I'm sorry I keep making you cry, but I love your tender heart and that you what to make the pain go away. It helps me get through the pain knowing you care, it really does.

quote:

Many people on this forum have left their Ts due to dodgy, unprofessional behaviour on the Ts part. Their grief is palpable also, and justified. But separating from your wise and wonderful T because his part in your journey is over is different again. You can't use anger or bitterness as a buffer - not justifiably anyway.

Monte,
This meant so much to hear. I was really struggling with feeling SO whiny considering some of the horrible things other people are struggling through with their Ts and ending therapy. My T has been really wonderful with very clear boundaries that it felt like I was unjustified in being upset. Your take on it helped me give myself permission to see this as major. That's been an ongoing struggle, not beating myself up because I'm "making too big a deal out of this." So your recognition of that was really important. But I am also aware that I have been deeply blessed because my therapist really does deeply understand the bind and just how intense this is. I was also very glad to hear that this helped you get out of reverse.

A lot of people commented (very sensitively I might add, no need for the HTML slapper at all!) about both the idea of going cold turkey and whether or not I was rushing leaving therapy and that I might not be able to now. Here's my best take on both issues, which right now is definitely a work in progress. The last thing I said to my T at our last session was that I wanted to discuss setting an end date versus stretching out sessions.

I really believe that I have grown past needing my T (notice I didn't say wanting!) and I'm ready to leave therapy. I'm not saying this is absolutely the end. For one thing, my T has made it abundantly clear that his door remains open and I can come back at any time, for either a single appt or another run of therapy depending on what I need. And I'm open to the fact that I may need to do so at some point, and I won't see it as a failure. I know that so much of this runs deep and there may be things in my future that I'll need help dealing with. And although we haven't discussed post-termination contact explicitly (it's on my list of stuff I need to talk about, only so much you can deal with in 50 minutes!) my T has made comments about dropping him a note, so I know it won't be a total cut off. But I also feel very clearly that it's time for me to go be on my own for at least a little while. Depending for a time on my T in a way I never have let myself depend on anyone has allowed me grow up enough to want to go out and see what life holds. And there's a deep conviction that I've learned what I can from him for now but in order to really grow into what I've learned and learn to live it, I need to be on my own.

So even though this is invoking some really difficult stuff, the things coming up that i'm struggling so hard to deal with, are the result of facing the ending. If I decide to stay, they will subside, but as soon as I decide to leave, they'll come right back up. What I'm struggling to say I think, is that the way I'm feeling isn't a sign I need to stay, it's a sign that I know I'm really leaving. And I'm going to have to face it at some point because this is just what leaving evokes in me. I had said to my T during our last session, that I was struggling with facing letting go and he told me I was facing it, that how I'm feeling is an indication that I am facing it. I made an emergency call to him on Friday and during the call I told him that I wasn't sure I could do this, and he told me that it was just one more step on the journey we had taken together, and was no different or harder than all the stuff I had already worked through.

What I am really struggling with is how to retain all the good that has come out of our work together. I've learned to not shut down my feelings, or shove them away, or shy away from intimacy. But doing all that as I say goodbye means I need to face the very deep pain involved in knowing I wont' see my T on a regular basis and that my fantasies of having something beyond therapy (which are many and varied ) have to be let go. But when I allow myself to experience that pain evokes the deep deprivation of my past, of not being able to be loved, of not getting what I want in a close relationship, of getting confirmation that loving someone and letting them in only leads to pain. I KNOW, I KNOW that is not the truth, or at least not the whole truth. Of course there's pain, loss and pain are part of the human condition. But there has also been deep comfort, intense joy, satisfaction and amazing growth in my relationship with my T. Pain is NOT the whole story (as bad as the pain has been at times). In a sense, the dilemna I face in leaving therapy is the same one all human beings face. Why do we love in the face of inevitable loss, why get close to another knowing that there will be pain involved? Yet we do so because it's what makes life worth living. The truth is, that termination hangs over therapy, the same way death hangs over life. To face this is to face being human.

But here's the amazing thing. I have my T to help me face it. I think it's the only time you can face a loss of this magnitude, yet have the person there to help you face the mourning. I remember that when a very close friend of mine died suddenly five years ago, that one of the most painful things about it was that I kept going to pick up the phone to call her to help me deal with the pain. In this case, I have my T there to help me face the loss of him.

As far as an end date versus stretching out sessions, here's the thing. I work best on a weekly basis. Throughout my therapy over the years, I have always had a single weekly appt. I find it fits the rhythm of how I work. So on one hand it just makes sense to me to just keep going weekly until I go. But I'm also aware that part of what is going on is my huge discomfort with not knowing what's going to happen. If I stretch out appts and let this happen "organically" then I don't know when the ending is, and that is highly uncomfortable for me. But that's something else I'm learning, to let it be ok when I don't know. So this is definitely something I plan on discussing with my T and I am open to how it will go.

My T has made it clear that we can take any time we need to deal with whatever comes up and I really need to be patient with myself, allow myself to recognize the magnitude of what I'm facing and let it be ok that it's going to take me awhile to work through the ending. But I am very clear about it being the end. It's just going to be even a longer ending than the Return of the King.


SG,
You nailed it about the earthquakes. These are necessary upheavals, I know I'm going to get through this and be ok, thrive even, but that doesn't mean I like living through the quake. (I read the books a long time ago, btw, and loved them.)

So I've climbed out of the intense despair and the grief comes and goes. I think the most frustrating thing right now is that I have SO much I need to talk to my T about and it never feels like there's enough time. So then I remind myself that I have all the time I need.

Thank you all for understanding just how major this is and extending to me the patience I can't seem to give myself.

AG