Hi Starfish,
I am so glad that you are reaching out and posting and asking for help. You are a valued member of our community and you reach out to help others all the time. You too, are worth being heard and understood.

I'm sorry for the confusion and pain you're going through. I went through something similar when I was recovering memories of the abuse. When I was doing that work, I discovered two other "states" one of which I thought of as Little AG, who was a girl of around four or five, which corresponded to when the abuse from my father began (as close as I could put it together) and the other was a boy of around 12 (my brother's age when the abuse started) whose job it was to keep me safe by not allowing me to trust anyone again or speak of what happened.

Little AG was so eager to come out and be heard, but in the course of my work what I realized is that she "left" taking the most severe memories with her and died so that the rest of me could survive. So in order to let her speak I had to convince her it was finally safe to do so, the older boy that it was safe to actually trust someone and myself that I wasn't going to actually die if I knew this stuff.

When you look at the spectrum of trauma, we all use splitting to deal with it, to put away the things that cant' be tolerated at the time because we didn't have resources. If things are severe enough, you actually develop separate personalities as with DID. But I think there's a broad range on the way there where we start to form nascent personalities so to speak that don't fully form because our need wasn't as great. BUT, the fact that we needed to split speaks to the fact that in order to survive there was SOMETHING we needed to NOT know. So we had to create somewhere or someone to hold it. So I know it is vitally important to listen to all the parts of ourselves, to let them be heard, to know the knowledge that they carry, but its' often terrifying to do so. Because on some level, we still feel that knowledge will destroy us. It's not true anymore but that doesn't mean the feelings aren't that strong. So respect the incredible creativity and resiliancy that allowed you to store this away until you could handle knowing it, but please be very compassionate with yourself as it makes total sense that this would feel scary, chaotic and confusing when it comes out.

And the deep sense of shame? There is no emotion in a human being that can drive our behavior as strong as shame. It's very closely tied to being part of the tribe, when being driven out meant death. So when you feel really threatened by something, you put shame around it as a really strong deterrent to ever going near it. I know it's difficult, but try to imagine if you can that your sense of shame isn't really deserved or about anything you did. It is your mind attempting to keep you safe, by keeping you away from dangerous stuff. Unfortunately, to quote my T, we have the same amygdala as a hamster. Not too bright or nuanced. It's a lot of hard, truly terrifying work to form enough new experiences to actually convince that part of your brain that it's not dangerous anymore to know or speak of these things. I really do know just how hard this can be Starfish, but please trust me when I tell you that you're doing what you need to do to heal and there will be another side.

((((Starfish)))) Thank you again for taking the chance to talk about this.

AG

STRMS

Thank you for understanding. I do so appreciate your support when you are hurting so much yourself. ((STRMS))

AG

Wise words and true....yes I know this is the right thing to do. But I come home and feel so lost and muddled and then start to doubt myself and my sanity.

Oh yes, too right about the shame. That inevitably spills out after the smaller ages have spoken, reminds me that I am bad and tells them not to talk or show any feelings. This is why it all feels so uncomfortable I guess.

Thank you both for the hugs, they help more than anything

starfish

Hi Starfish,

It sounds really scary for you, therapy is a difficult process especially if you are used to shutting things away. I think you are really brave to have shared this with your T and you should take her up on her offer of contact if you feel you need to.

Sorry I don't have anything useful to say to you but hope it gets better for you.

Butterfly

Thanks butterfly

I don't think we've met yet, but thank you for your kind thoughts.

starfish

((((((((Starfish)))))))

I know it is so scary and painful for you, but, as AG says, the danger is not here anymore...try, hold at least onto that thought, when the going gets tough, as a kind of "knowldege" that is outside of your feelings that you can hold onto like a life-line. That way when it feels like you are drowning, you can *know* you are safe, though it feels, not. I am mostly, just feeling for you, as I wish I could say some words to comfort and hold you. ((((((Starfish)))))

"The truth will set you free..."

much love, and admiration, too,

Beebs

Dear beebs

Thank you, you are so right there is no danger...it still feels like it though. That's why I feel mad I guess. I appreciate your care, it will be all right I know, I wish I were stronger and braver,

starfish

((((Starfish)))))) I am sorry it is so rough, and I am in about the same place, having horrible sessions, feeling huge shame and fear, so I really feel for you and all that AG says is so spot on. It can take a while to adjust to having the hidden parts come out. And feel safe enough to. I find it excruciating at the imbetween stage of not yet really trusting but needing so badly to talk from the more hidden parts of myself. I send you safe hugs and I hope you reach out more and even contact your T if she said you could.

Sheychen

Thank you for the hug. You are right, I am having a really hard time adjusting...it was so much easier in a way when I discounted or denied thy were there. I do want them to come out and speak, it really does help me, but the shame and fallout is so tremendous, I realise the reality of what has been said is enormous and I can't cope with that at all.

Thank you for your understanding. I am sorry you are going through such a hard time at the moment yourself. There are so many battles to be fought in ourselves that are so painful, yet each has to be dealt with in turn, in order to try to move on again. I know that, it's just hard to accept.

starfish

Hi Starfish, I don't think there's anything I can say that would be useful to you. I just wanted to offer some support...please keep posting however much you need/want to. It doesn't matter if you can't specify why you're in pain. All that matters is that you're suffering and need help.

(((Starfish)))

kashley thank you, just offering support is wonderful. I feel a bit stronger today, have packed it away a bit because it hurts too much to remember. I'm not strong enough to process it out of session, but then it keeps just unpacking itself of its own accord and that's hard.

Draggers

Yes that's the hardest part, the admitting that it really happened. I can't hack that at all. Thank you for your understanding and the hug x It really helps.

starfish

Hi, Starfishy...sending strengthening hugs, and feelings for you. Yes it is hard to stay in the light, where it feels so painful, isn't it... I see clearly that you have grown so much, just from when you first started posting here, and I believe firmly that you will continue to grow in strength. My T said something like: "You will be able to stay in the light for longer and longer periods of time as your strength continues to grow, but it is ok, that you can't stay there for too long now." I thought those words applied so strongly to your situation, so I wanted to share them with you. I have so many "soundbites" he has given me that I take out when I feel discouraged. I'm sure your T has given you some, too, that you remember from time to time. And we are here to support you and are thinking so fondly of our dear little Starfish.

(((((((Starfish))))))

BB

BB

quote:

"You will be able to stay in the light for longer and longer periods of time as your strength continues to grow, but it is ok, that you can't stay there for too long now."

Thank you to your T I can resonate with that so much. For me it's firstly the public light here, of admitting things to others that I have silenced for so long, that I keep wondering if ought to be spoken still. Yes I know it's safe and I'm safe, but the silencing thing is so engrained. Secondly, it's the coming out into the light that is for me the having to admit to myself that it DID happen. And I can only tolerate that for small amounts of time it seems.

So thank you for that. I will remember it! And thank you too for your support and kindness,

starfish

Of course you can still only tolerate the pain for small periods of time...and that is not wrong, Starfish. I think on my small boy. He needed so much physio just to learn, how to walk. Shall I have scolded him for not being able to walk faster...no, that would have hindered his progress...but we did physio, and physio, gently trying to strenthen his weak muscles, until finally, he did learn, how to walk. Now he can run, and even jump! And slowly, slowly, I'm sure, Starfish will experience the same sort of thing. (Except you'll be swimming, since, you are after all a sea creature! )Yet it will hurt a lot to as you learn how to come out... I am so sorry for that part of it.

As far as speaking about your experiences here, only you will know if and when it ever feels right to *you* or safe to do that. I think you would know inside, and not question it quite so much. But that's just my hunch- I could be wrong on that. But know always that you are so welcome to say as much or as little as you feel safe and comfortable with. about therapy, or about other experiences. Your good judgement will serve you. I hope some of this can help or comfort a bit.

(((((Starfish))))

BeeBee

BeeBee

x x

(((( Starfish ))))

I’m sorry I’ve come late to your post - and I wish I had something useful or wise to say but I don’t have any experience of younger parts or selves so can’t even come up with an analogy. I do want to say though well done you for posting - that was very brave of you and I hope you will be able to talk even more soon about the pain you are going through - you’ve going through a hellish time right now and trying to deal with it all on your own must only make it harder.

I sure can relate though to the sense that denying and keeping such things hidden out of awareness is a WHOLE lot easier than digging it all up and having to relive past nightmares in the present. Apart from everything else it throws present coping skills out the window - it’s very hard to keep life going on as normal when the very foundations are being threatened. But maybe you can think of it like this - you’re in the process of rebuilding new much stronger and healthier foundations - clearing out the rotten debris to make way for good clean building blocks - just keep thinking of how it will be once you’ve gotten through it all and keep hanging in there.

Hugs to you Starfish

LL

LL

quote:

I sure can relate though to the sense that denying and keeping such things hidden out of awareness is a WHOLE lot easier than digging it all up and having to relive past nightmares in the present. Apart from everything else it throws present coping skills out the window - it’s very hard to keep life going on as normal when the very foundations are being threatened
.

My T will often suggest that we look at stategies for coping with getting stuff out in the open that has been hidden. It's not the in-session time that's difficult, it's when I have to deal with everyday life again out of session that it gets really hard. And really no strategies seem to work, I get frustrated when we sit and talk about coping, because I never seem able to...the reality that comes from these foundations being shaken is sometimes too awful to bear and nobody outside of the therapy room will know that. So how are we meant to deal with that I wonder?

I do know that the long term foundation shaking WILL help me in the future. Thank you for remnding me of that, sometimes it's too difficult to see through the dust caused by the walls coming down, and I'm frightened of tripping on the rubble, so tend to sit tight and feel scared instead. I guess in time the dust willl settle won't it?

Thanks for the helpful reply and the hugs

starfish

Hi Starfish,

I'm sorry, I don't know if we have met. I just wanted to say that your comment:

quote:

I come home and feel so lost and muddled and then start to doubt myself and my sanity.

resonated with me. I have no visual memory of the things that happened to me in childhood. After sharing with my T what I heard my other senses telling me I began to question my sanity and have tried to make sense of what I don't want to believe. I just wanted to let you know I understand. Sharing your struggle is helps to normalize mine. Thanks.

deeplyrooted

deeplyrooted

quote:

I just wanted to let you know I understand. Sharing your struggle is helps to normalize mine.

oh I am so glad it helps, but not glad that it's hard for you ....my T is always explaining and reassuringly normalising what I experience, but it's only really when we hear from others that have actually gone through similar, that we understand enotionally as well as intellectually that what we are feeling may be hard, but perhaps expected.

starfish

I have come really late to your post but I am well confused with having several parts of me, I have a wise adult woman me, that is the normal me that operates usually and I have a very hurting small me and a non verbal littlest me that just wants lots of love and holding and also a raging teenager who wants love but can't ask for it and is confrontational all the time and I find it REALLY confusing!!!!
and I also feel a bit of a twit for having these different clashing bits coming out and they are not just in therapy - cos a boss at work can trigger my raging 8 yr old magnificently and then I have to be so careful what I say and that I don't stamp my foot and cry at him. !!!
My therapist was really respectful and gentle with the younger parts of me, the parts that are not yet matured, but lately we are in such a fractured place we are not communicating well. I sympathise with the difficulty of it all and I know that I take my teddybear in with me and that helps me feel little cos I hug bear and I curl up on the floor and talk from there and I feel so LITTLE it is amazing. Good luck with it all. i am not sure I helped but I wanted to say something.

starfish, i relate to what you are going through, and the voices inside...i think it is great you are able to identify them to parts. that helped me alot, to know who is saying what inside.

i like what ag said:

When you look at the spectrum of trauma, we all use splitting to deal with it, to put away the things that cant' be tolerated at the time because we didn't have resources. If things are severe enough, you actually develop separate personalities as with DID. But I think there's a broad range on the way there where we start to form nascent personalities so to speak that don't fully form because our need wasn't as great. BUT, the fact that we needed to split speaks to the fact that in order to survive there was SOMETHING we needed to NOT know. So we had to create somewhere or someone to hold it. So I know it is vitally important to listen to all the parts of ourselves, to let them be heard, to know the knowledge that they carry, but its' often terrifying to do so. Because on some level, we still feel that knowledge will destroy us. It's not true anymore but that doesn't mean the feelings aren't that strong. So respect the incredible creativity and resiliancy that allowed you to store this away until you could handle knowing it, but please be very compassionate with yourself as it makes total sense that this would feel scary, chaotic and confusing when it comes out.

And the deep sense of shame? There is no emotion in a human being that can drive our behavior as strong as shame. It's very closely tied to being part of the tribe, when being driven out meant death. So when you feel really threatened by something, you put shame around it as a really strong deterrent to ever going near it. I know it's difficult, but try to imagine if you can that your sense of shame isn't really deserved or about anything you did. It is your mind attempting to keep you safe, by keeping you away from dangerous stuff. Unfortunately, to quote my T, we have the same amygdala as a hamster. Not too bright or nuanced. It's a lot of hard, truly terrifying work to form enough new experiences to actually convince that part of your brain that it's not dangerous anymore to know or speak of these things. I really do know just how hard this can be Starfish, but please trust me when I tell you that you're doing what you need to do to heal and there will be another side.


this says it all, the DID, i never knew what that meant, the shame, the fear of looking inside at these parts and letting them speak, because at one time, they would have crumbled you, but now, the fear is there, and i am starting to think for me, the fear is greater than the actual parts. there was SOMETHING we needed to NOT know. but now, we can address them.

for me, i just need some consistancy with therapy and therapists...that doesn't seem to be your issue.

i know the feeling of going crazy, i knock at the door often. but, as of yet, i have only peeked in.

it is not fun. it is hard, the adult can cope pretty well, i fool myself, i fool my therapist at times. then, the four year old must act out to let everyone know she is not being heard. the four year old HATES everyone, and especially those that don't listen to her. she is very very angry...rageful...and the rest of us in there are TERRIFIED of what she has to say. the four year old ESPECIALLY HATES THE ADULT that shuts her up ALL THE TIME.

it is a battle, but, identifying who is speaking helps. i can often put it to the freud terms of id, ego, and super ego. and i have ONE BITCHY SUPER EGO. a pretty swollen id, and the ego is just pinched in the middle and is the 'show' personality, but fearful it is all show and there is nothing there.

hang in there, keep recognizing who is talking. i find that very helpful at reducing the feelings of going crazy.

hugs, jill

Sheychen

quote:

but I am well confused with having several parts of me,

oh I agree. When I think about it, I get very confused and a little scared, but if I take a step back and remember what T (and ever wise AG) has told me about the different trauma ages and my coping mechanisms at each age to survive ..well then it goes from confusing to blindingly obvious. But I keep alternating between that confusion and acceptance and that's what's hard too. What you said WAS helpful Sheychen, I can relate to that mix of feeling different ages. I don't think I am as brave as you yet in letting them speak, it's very hard for adult me to allow this, but when they do it's really powerful and helpful to me.

jill

quote:

the fear of looking inside at these parts and letting them speak, because at one time, they would have crumbled you, but now, the fear is there, and i am starting to think for me, the fear is greater than the actual parts.

Amen to that. Thank you jill, it's so true. I wish you had some consistency with a T, for me that has been pivotal in allowing myself to do this work and even with a T who I trust implicitly and know well, it feels very risky. I am always preparing myself to shut back dowm again and withdraw into myself if it all goes wrong and I, or one of these ages, feel too scared to continue.

Keep at it jill and keep posting about your progress in the battle you describe,

starfish

starfish, thanks for your kind words. i am going to poke my head out this week, out and around the chit chat, to see if there is more here. i am afraid, i know it is too soon, maybe this is my pre-emptive strike, to see if t bites. i feel like such a baby poking around the corner, i sometimes wish they didn't have to see me when i talk...that i could be in a booth of some sorts...like a confessional booth in the catholic church. being 'me' feels like a confessional. what the heck is up with that thought, jill??

sigh!

jill

jill, I can go with that. I've often said to my T that I would be better talking with a paper bag on my head, not having to look at her. We've talked about the confessional idea too - but she reminded me that I have done nothing wrong so have no need to confess. I wish I could feel the same though.

Good luck jill with being braver, just poke that head out a little bit more ..I see a tortoise, peering out of its shell, being braver and braver but still ready to bring it back in again if it needs.

starfish

STRM

Thank you for your honesty and really helpful insight. It makes perfect sense to allow child ages/parts their own times to come out and speak. I think I kept experiencing that only after a big memory or flashback...and then it really bothered me that something inside needed to be heard so badly. At other times I could manage just fine ignoring the existence of any younger ages. Far easier in a way than now.

quote:

At times it can be embarrassing, but I tend to think of the little parts just like I think of my own children and that helps. I wouldn't deny them care and comforting so why do it to my inner parts

STRMS that has spoken to me big time.....challenged me (in a good way, I'm really really glad you said it) because that's exactly what I have been doing to myself, but wouldn't dream of doing to my own children. Ever.

In reality, no I wouldn't use a screen. The times I tell my T that I wish to hide, are the very times my T says I need to look really hard at her face and see that she is safe. She's right as well, that connection seems to teach me more than if I were allowed to hide away.

BTW, it wasn't rambly at all STRM Thank you,

starfish

quote:

In reality, no I wouldn't use a screen. The times I tell my T that I wish to hide, are the very times my T says I need to look really hard at her face and see that she is safe. She's right as well, that connection seems to teach me more than if I were allowed to hide away.


starfish

That is so hard for me to do though. My T tries to get me to look at her to connect as well and when I'm in those awful places where I feel like I'm being swallowed by shame, I just can't look at her. Then sometimes the little parts get confused as to who T is and it can get really bad. My T usually wears a necklace, so we have come up with her necklace as a focal point of sorts. Anytime the little parts are getting confused, we find her necklace and it helps to ground them and remind them that T is safe.

STRMS

That makes perfect sense, something that will help ground in today when everything inside feels like many yesterdays.

Thank you everybody for your replies, they have really encouraged and helped me. This little starfish is taking a little break, off on holiday to find some warmer water to swim in and a little rest in the sunshine. Speak soon,

starfish