JM,
I am so sorry, no one should have to hear that a parent felt or behaved that way and it breaks my heart that you did.

I want you to know that the problem is not in the person you are or your worth, it is a fault, a serious defect, in your father's vision. That he would be so selfish as to put his own desires ahead of his child's wellbeing is sickening. I know how much you love your daughter, I want you to think about EVER putting something as trivial as traveling ahead of taking care of her. You would never in a million years.

The fault lies with him, not with you. X 10,000. I am so sorry you're heading to a dark place, please keep posting here. You are entitled to however you're feeling, sad, abandoned, angry, relieved, but no matter what it is, you should be able to feel it and express it. And I don't want you to hurt yourself in order to express your feelings. You deserve so much more.

I am so angry at your father's selfishness and how much damage I know this is doing to you. I cannot imagine EVER, EVER wanting to give away a person like you, I would be forever grateful for the blessing it would be to have you as a daughter, and so proud to call you mine.

And you may not feel like the same person but that's because you're dealing with people who don't see the person you are. Who are not capable of it. You are a strong, intelligent, compassionate, funny, insightful woman. You're strength and courage are both incredible. I am proud to call you my friend.

Please try to take care of yourself, snd we're here for whatever you need or whatever we can do.

AG

JM,

It would be really hard to hear something like that. I wouldn't know what to think. I'm really sorry that you'd have to hear your sister say something like that.

Please remember though that, as selfish as people can be and as unfeeling as that was to want, it's not who you are today. You're an amazing person that I'm happy to even _know_, without the honor of being related to.

I hope that you feel like you can post what you're feeling here, and please try to be as good to yourself as I know you'd want... as good as you'd want AG to be to herself! There, that should say it right.

Oh JM, I am so sorry you had to hear that. Please try to remember that it is his failing as a parent, not you. You are an amazing, supportive, considerate, generous (and all those things AG said too) person that I am lucky to consider a friend. Your father obviously never had any idea who you really are, his loss.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this pain, plus the pain of your flashbacks. Please remember that we all are here, we look forward to hearing from you, and we all care a great deal about you.

OW

Despite all his dirty looks and the way he made me feel, I guess I really never expected that there was a time period that he didn't want me. This feels so unsettling. How can you not want your own child? How can a parent be that selfish?

I never thought to ask my sister if my mother wouldn't have objected to that if her and her husband would have taken me in.

I find this so hurtful. And I thought every thing was normal...typical. (I always thought there was something wrong with ME!) I didn't know that life was supposed to be any different. This is all I knew.

Your comments are very heartwarming. You all say such nice things. Thank you.

I called and left my T a message about it, then I wondered if she would think, "so. big deal. Why are you surprised?" But she wouldn't think that would she? This is as bad as it feels isn't it??

quote:

then I wondered if she would think, "so. big deal. Why are you surprised?" But she wouldn't think that would she?

Of course she would never think that! Not in a million years. You know she wouldn't, well at least the part of you that knows her and connects with her in such a meaningful way knows that so listen to her OK, not the vampires in your head that are frolicking about having a grand ole time with this new information from your sister. Those vampires are not you, they are the LIES you were told and lies are ever so much more convincing when there is some truth about them. What your sister told you is good fodder for the lies but your T sees through the lies and she knows you and cares about you and she would never think that this is no big deal.

quote:

This is as bad as it feels isn't it??

JM

First of all, let me say that I am so sorry you are going through this. No child should ever be made to feel unwanted and you have to believe that you had nothing to do with your father's behavior.

Secondly, however you are feeling about this IS how it feels. You have every right to feel what you feel and no one can tell you otherwise. That being said, I hope you can find a way to soothe yourself other than hurting yourself. You are strong and courageous and brave and kind and all the other things that everyone else has said. How awesome is it, that you are such an amazing person in spite of a really crummy childhood?

I know that your T would never say that this is "no big deal." You have a wonderful T and she will be there for you as long as you need her. My thoughts are with you, let us know how you are doing. We all really care about you.

PL

(((((HB))))
Of course it is ok. I will share my thread with you, although I am sorry I have to because I am sorry of the pain you are enduring. I am sorry for the pain every one is enduring for their need to be here. Although I am extremely grateful to have such extraordinary friends who have shown far more genuine care and concern for me than all of my family members put together. HB, As you describe your father as such a kind, loving, gentle father, it seems like a foreign concept to me to know what that would be like. How frightening it must have been to fear losing him all the while being abandoned by your mother especially during a time when you need her to "show up" instead of pursuing her selfish goals.

I never realized how selfish my father is. Some of his least endearing qualities are harder to deny, but the family lies and excuses made a lot of room for him to be selfish and to stay that way while everybody sat back and took it because he is an alcoholic. That's true he is, but alcohol doesn't make you selfish, manipulative, lying, cheating, gambling, hurtful, and abusive. It just accentuates them.

I spent my entire life feeling that he loved me less than some of my siblings. He was jealous of my relationship with my mom. I don't think because I favored her more, I think it is because she favored me over him and resisted his attempts to get rid of me. (How dare she not be willing to give up her youngest child for the freedom to travel about with a cheating, womanizing drunk!)I used to hear them screaming in the middle of the night and him accusing her of always protecting me and taking my side. I always wondered what he meant by my side. Now I know. Though I was lied to so much and made to deny my feelings that I am now in shock to learn it really was true after all. He favored my sisters especially. My oldest sister was the MPC (most precious child) to both of my parents and she could do no wrong. My other sister was catered to because she had such a horribly hard life and needed everyone to feel sorry for her as she lived out the consequences of her mistakes of which I had to suffer from as well. My dad babied her and doded over and cried for her. Still does. To say she had him wrapped around her finger is an understatement. He was sort of that way with my oldest brother, protecting and defending his outrageous behavior (still does), and my other brother much less forgiving of, but he was a boy nonetheles and boys get certain perks and allowances to be boys. So just where DID that leave me? And yet the man frequently says "he never favored any of his children." Apparently he hasn't convinced himself of that either. I'm done with the lies. I hate them. I see no need for lies. I never have even though I was forced to live them. I was always the one who would DARE to speak up and point out the inconsistencies and make fiery comments and jokes about the "elephant in the room." My older brother said I was hilarious and made everyone laugh hysterically, that even dad had to laugh at the honesty in my humor, but sometimes the truth was too painful for him and he recalls that my dad slapped me so hard one time that I fell out of my chair at the dinner table. "Could you pass the salt?"

When I think about what a precarious existence I really had, I wonder how I got here today. It's remarkable that I am still intact.

(((((((((HB))))))))) & (((((((((JM))))))))))))

I am literally at a loss for words. It is sometimes breathtaking, the damage that can be done by those who should love and cherish us. You both deserved so much better than you had. It is a testament to your spirit and strength that you are both striving to overcome this, to rise above this, and not be trapped by these circumstances.

I am humbled by knowing the incredible loving generous people you are also knowing that it grew out of such poisoned soil.

If you can not hear anything else, hear that the problem lay with the people that your parents were and the choices that they made, and had nothing to do with who you were.

I wish I could both give you a real hug.

And HB, you're father sounds wonderful, I am so glad that you have him.

AG

((((HB)))

((((JM))))

I can't help but to think of my conversations I've had with my dad about his remorse and how I forgave him. Is this supposed to be included in that since I didn't know about the "family secret" before? (Every one knew but me)Because as far as I am concerned right now, I am not there with this. Maybe some day I will be, but right now I am not. I'm not ready to forgive, I have to be true to MY feelings first.

And I called my sister back and asked her if it had come to that would she and her husband have taken me in? She said she can't remember if the discussion ever went that far, but she'd have to think about it and get back with me.

Oh, ok... NICE!

My T called me back this morning and expressed disgust with the idea that my father would even consider it and agreed that this does in fact explain a lot of my emotions and belief patterns.

quote:

I don't know if was the same for you but i have spent so much of my life thinking it was me and I hope this acknowledgement from your sister brings you some peace of mind that you did not make this up or misunderstand. The knowing must hurt like hell but the relief of knowing that you can trust yourself and your judgement, for me, has been a huge step in the right direction.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes! I was the defective one because I sensed all of this and yet every one told me it was not true! I already felt and believed I was not wnated and that he resented me. You could cut the resentment with a knife and yet it was denied. This is absolute liberation people! I am doing better now than I even realize I am. I am hurting, but the shock seems to be providing a soft enough cushion for every bump on the way down on the emotional elevator. "Next floor: lingere, furniture, houewares, and all sorts of heavy breakables to throw at your FOO."

HB, I am glad you have such a wonderful dad and that you had such a nice conversation. You both deserve that. SEE! It isn't such a far fetched idea for parents to step up to the plate and ....PARENT! That's the way it should be and I am glad you and your sister at least had that and each other.

LOL! We did it again HB! No worroies on your post being inappropriate. NOT at all! I am happy for you. What kind of person would that make me if I can't find happiness for others?

Yeah, I already survived the worse. The fact that I had to live with that man and be subjected to that miserable life. I'm already a survivor. The survivors of the Titanic didn't have to dive down to the wreck site to remember they survived either. Our testimony is better than that.

quote:

I just want to say thank you for being here with me right now. We are walking two different paths on two different journeys but it is really good to have some company. Here's to liberation.

I'd drink to that, but I don't think that would be a good idea. So I'll just say "ME TOO!" **hiccough!**

((((HB)))) and ((((JM)))),

I am so sorry for your parents and their inability to care for you. It is clear to an outsider that was their problems and had nothing to do with you. Thank you for sharing your stories,

Oh, HB...I was just kidding about the drink. I have been sober for 4 months and 23 days and I don't intend to stop now if I can help it. I just play it up with humor on occaision like the weeny I am. But a cup of that Sun range tea sounds good.

quote:

The survivors of the Titanic didn't have to dive down to the wreck site to remember they survived either. Our testimony is better than that.

JM...

I love this analogy. Great!

I wonder how many survivors of the Titanic had PTSD? hmmmm...and did they possibly find resolution when it was found? That's a deep cold dive I sure don't want to do it. Just thinking...perpetually. It's annoying sometimes. I might actually get some sleep if I could shut my brain off. *chuckling*

Learning that at least at one point in my life that I was not wanted by my father is horrifically devastating for me. But on the other hand it also gave me such feelings of liberation in knowing where all these negative beliefs and emotions come from and that they are validated. I know I mentioned the empowerment in that. I don’t know how long my father actually considered giving me up or exactly how old I was; my sister insists she cannot remember but she also doesn’t like to have to commit herself to think outside her own box for any length of time either. SO who knows how much information I will ever learn, but it at least confirms what I’ve already experienced as emotional abandonment and the confirmation hurts like hell. But I am surrounded by people now who would never abandon me and my desire is to absorb that belief deeply enough that I will not have to feel the pangs of abandonment ever again.

Yesterday’s session was quite extraordinary in many ways for me. While I felt exacerbated in some ways, I realize that in dealing with such raw emotions there is naturally a strong pull to direct the anger toward my T, and so in immediately finding fault with her in something present that is what I did. I sat in her presence and emptied myself to the degree that I could, of so much hate, hurt, anguish, and protest that I was never allowed to express as a child, and she listened and she softly absorbed it for me. I went through moments of being able to express myself more clearly and coherently than I think I ever have before, to moments of dissociation, and a pressing awareness of shame and humiliation that I have not yet identified. All the while I felt like someone was watching me and that made me extremely uncomfortable. I am not sure if I was this uncomfortable with such exposure to my T or if there is a part of me that is still resisting and protesting my exposure. It is curious because sometimes I felt like I was floating out of my body. Maybe I was the one watching. *shrugs*

I sort of chuckle as I look back on what triggered my anger at her when all said was “that she hopes that I will be able to work through this and learn the other side of the story and have peace in my relationship with my father again…” (As far as I know my T has been waiting for this moment when I would finally unleash my anger and give voice to some things that have not been heard yet and she blunders by trying to persuade more positive thoughts of future restoration with my dad?…OOOPS!)

“OTHER SIDE of the story?? I don’t give a flying s@#! If there is another side of the story and right now I don’t care to EVER talk to that man again! How dare he even consider giving me up!....It wasn’t a fleeting thought….He doesn’t deserve me!....” I went into a tirade over a slight error of words chosen at the wrong time, but I got it all out. At one point I glared at her and retorted, “I thought you were different.” And of course she is. She is not like them at all. She apologized for her mistake and she lovingly listened to my protests knowing it would reveal the same emotions connected with my feelings of abandonment, of which are the anchor to the painful emotions I am suffering.

So here is this woman who has only known me going on three years, who is willing to give me something that my own parents denied me over and over and over. Here is someone who will never even think of abandoning me.

I wonder what she observed as I sat on her couch and poured out my expressions to the best of my ability (when I was not dissociating). What did she see in my eyes? Hatred? Hurt? Confusion? What could she tell by my expressions and posture? What did I reveal that I did not disclose verbally? I know she seen something that I do not reveal in front of anyone, and until very recently not even myself. ::

All through the session I clutched my favorite of her throw pillows (symbolically her) and at the end of session I could not pull myself up from the couch and I sat and sobbed because I didn’t want to leave to which she once again allowed me enough time to gather myself together enough to go. As I hugged her good-bye she reminded me that "I always have a part of her with me." I said, "I know."

I called her half way home and wanted to come right back in to see her. She was able to offer me another appointment but by the time she was able to call me back, I was extremely exhausted and I had returned home. But I told her I would need to talk to her again later and asked if it would be ok for her to call me again later and she did. And I was in a completely different mood by then…

(I wonder since this post is becoming so long if I should insert Intermission here if you’re even still interested in reading) But in case you are: ACT ll

By that time I had this fiendish desire and I was actually plotting how I could return to my childhood and give my family a piece of my mind. I was so fricken scared to breathe when I was a kid. I am so angry now I'd love to turn back time and disguise myself in my 10 year old body and blow my parents minds away with the things I could say and do now. It feels sadistically funny, yet freakishly satisfying to think about it, you know? You have no idea what a good hearted child I was; always wanting to please my parents, doing every thing in my little reach to make those miserable people happy, and guess what? It was a waste of my fricken time! I was nothing more than a wind up fricken monkey they set aside for their entertainment purposes and only when it was convenient for them. So I told her about this wicked little fantasy and she got a big kick out of it and said, “GREAT! Write this down or record it and let me know what you come up with and what it feels like to do that!” I swear I think this woman loves this stuff!

So that is where I am at. I am going to dream up my plot and see how it feels to tell these people off and tell them how they hurt me, but they cannot hurt me anymore. I have a lot to say and a lot of details to work out. Then I am going to write all of this down and let my T read it next week.

If you got this far, thanks for humoring me and listening.
JM

JM,
That is so awesome! Thank you for sharing all that. (BTW, you couldn't have stopped me from reading it all the way to the end!). I'm actually a little envious of your ability to express all that to your T. I'm feeling very angry and frustrated with my T right now and even therapy in general (another T-shirt idea: THERPY SUCKS!!) but I'm still so scared to express all that. Despite my therapist reassuring me over and over that its a good thing to express my anger even at him and that he wants me to. So, as usual, you're my hero!

AG

JM,

I didn't even notice this post until I saw it last night. My God, what an awful thing to learn. I am going through something similar and I have a question for you if you don't mind.

My T says that I was also unwanted, and based on all the information I can see why he says this, at least in terms of my father.

But the idea that my mother didn't want me is killing me, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to accept it. Sure, she never defended me against my father's awful parenting and was not the warmest mother in the world, but she also sat at my bedside for three weeks, soothing me when I was half dead in the hospital with meningitis when I was 12, among other acts of authentic caring. I am going to ask my T tonight if this is the action of a mother who doesn't "want" her child.

But this is so confusing I want to scream. I feel like I'm being pulled apart by what I feel, what my T says, what I remember from childhood and what I want to believe. It's all so murky, nothing is ever clear and it feels like it never will be. And every time my mother signs off from a phone conversation with "I love you," am I supposed to think, "no you don't. You don't want me. My therapist told me so." God this sucks.

From your post it seems like you were able to pretty much integrate this idea of being unwanted once you got past the initial numbness and pain of what your sister told you. After that period, was it clear to you that this was the case, or did you also go through this hellish confusion of not know what or who to believe?

Thanks so much,
Russ

quote:

Originally posted by Russ:
My T says that I was also unwanted, and based on all the information I can see why he says this, at least in terms of my father.

But the idea that my mother didn't want me is killing me, and I don't know if I'll ever be able to accept it. Sure, she never defended me against my father's awful parenting and was not the warmest mother in the world, but she also sat at my bedside for three weeks, soothing me when I was half dead in the hospital with meningitis when I was 12, among other acts of authentic caring. I am going to ask my T tonight if this is the action of a mother who doesn't "want" her child.

Russ, I am sorry for your frustration. I know how much this hurts and yes it is confusing when we have such conflicting feelings spiraling inside of us. Ask your T if you want to, but I think you can honestly discern the truth here in what you already know; that she did authenitcally care for you and love you. Wanted? I was the youngest of 5 children so I was not planned or (wanted) intially by either of my parents, by any stretch of the imagination. I came into my mother's life at a very chaotic, severely depressing and distressing time in her life of which she would never recover. She watched me get heartbroken and disappointed by the actions of my father whom she could not control, but she tried to soothe and take care of me to the best of her ability, of which fell painfully short of my needs, partly because of her current circumstances and partly because of her highly dysfunctional upbringing. She was never properly taught how to parent.

So while my father considered giving me up, possibly thinking it would be better for me too (groan and grumble as if it really matters), my mother spit nails at him and refused to give me up. But why would anyone WANT to bring a child into this sort of atmosphere? Why would any one WANT a child to endure this kind of pain she watched me suffer? As a mother I know that my mother was heartbroken to see me hurt the way that I did and she also felt helpless to change or to prevent it from happening. So what is "wanted"? She didn't want this for me.

I think in part of our therapy we learn that even though our parents failed us miserably, that they likey didn't set out to fail us. For whatever reason they reacted and responded the way that they did, and as horribly as that hurts us, that if they _could_ have done better they would have. Perhaps if your father would have read that book he would have learned he needs to do better and found out how he could do better. But he didn't realize or see that at the time. But your mother did an tried to help because I am sure she felt your pain too Russ. As a mother I can say when our children hurt, we hurt. And when we've been hurt so much our brains have to find a way to tone it down and so enters denial. So perhaps your mother was distant too because she had to be in order to cope with carrying the pain she seen in you.

I watched my daughter suffer the abandonment from her father and it is extremely difficult to manage the proper degree of our own emotions that are triggered and help our children to cope with theirs at the same time. I went through a short phase when I spoke out loud to a friend that "I did not want to be a mother anymore." It isn't because I didn't want my daughter, God himself couldn't seperate me from her, but it was that I could not cope with the pain of bearing her hurt. I still get choked up over that and this was 20 years ago.

quote:

But this is so confusing I want to scream. I feel like I'm being pulled apart by what I feel, what my T says, what I remember from childhood and what I want to believe. It's all so murky, nothing is ever clear and it feels like it never will be.

It will be!

quote:

And every time my mother signs off from a phone conversation with "I love you," am I supposed to think, "no you don't. You don't want me. My therapist told me so."

Is THAT what he said Russ? He's tapping into your feelings so that YOU can authenticate them yourself. He can't do that for you and I doubt that he is trying to. (I hope not) You might have to stand up to him on this one if you know better. Though I am not implying he is modeling this. He knows far more details of your history than I do.

quote:

From your post it seems like you were able to pretty much integrate this idea of being unwanted once you got past the initial numbness and pain of what your sister told you. After that period, was it clear to you that this was the case, or did you also go through this hellish confusion of not know what or who to believe?

It isn't so black and white as we so desire to see it. It is clear, but there is a sense of confusion. In other words, I am clearly confused.
For me this revelation was with my dad, the one I always knew was never there for me emotionally so it was more of that liberating feeling and validation of "aha! I knew it all along, you SOB!" ANd now I CAN beleive and trust these feelings as more facts were added to the equation. But my mother was the one who persistently lied to me and told me that what I was feeling wasn't true. That is the more confusing angle I have to deal with. But it is a lie she believed herself. She thought she had to.

The bottom line I think Russ is that we need to find the courage to explore our feelings, to not be afraid of our emotions, and to learn that ne'er even our T's can interject or suggest too much for us one way or another. When your mother says she loves you and if your father is ever able to express that, I'd believe them. Because sometimes even though we feel they don't, or that they couldn't have or else they wouldn't have done this or they would have done that, the fact is that yes, they could have loved us and still f*d up this badly!

Feelings: While we honor them, we cannot always trust them. They are perceived as is truth and can be easily influenced and they can change as we learn more facts and I think this is what can be so confusing. I believe your T is trying to show you how to sort through the facts to determine what you can trust. Of course I may be wrong.

I just hope this makes sense. If not please let me know and I wil try to clarify. Or perhaps someone else can interject their thoughts.
JM

[quote] Feelings: While we honor them, we cannot always trust them. They are perceived as is truth and can be easily influenced and they can change as we learn more facts. I believe your T is trying to show you how to sort through the facts. Of course I may be wrong. [quote]

I think this statement about feelings is at the heart of what my T is trying to get me to see. I regularly believe my feelings are the truth but I also doubt anyone will accept my truth I don't let myself act from them. This means that I don't get any feedback on my feelings and therefore don't obtain any new facts.

Russ, about your parents. I don't think any parent feels absolutes about their children such as "don't want them". I think that your mother wanted you and loved you but at times was completely unable to provide what you required emotionally or support. I know that my parents, who don't want to know me as a person and have no acceptance of any negative feelings or experiences, still love and want me. Unfortunately, it is not enough. Also, my parents are great in physical emergencies (like your mother in the hospital) and very generous with money but dismissive, frustrated and even cruel about emotional issues. I always describe their attitude as there is nothing wrong until there is blood so there is no reason to complain, be upset, feel unless there is blood. So I know they love me and want me (they have 6 kids), the problem is they don't want me (as a person) and instead want the picture perfect children and family.

Sorry, but I also want to interject another thought my T and I discussed last week. The fact that my father went through a period that he wanted to give me up and I felt unwated by him most of my life, does not define the whole of my relationship with my father, nor does being unwanted for a time define me. It felt like it at first, but in considering all of the facts, I'm not buying into that.

That is the difference between feeling something and staying stuck there, to weighing the facts and choosing what to believe as functioning adults.

And don't forget that feelings and emotions are not always tied together. Emotions always have to be honored whereas feelings have to be discerned. Does that make sense? I fear the more I talk the less I make sense.

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:

quote:

And every time my mother signs off from a phone conversation with "I love you," am I supposed to think, "no you don't. You don't want me. My therapist told me so."

Is THAT what he said Russ? He's tapping into your feelings so that YOU can authenticate them yourself. He can't do that for you and I doubt that he is trying to. (I hope not) You might have to stand up to him on this one if you know better. Though I am not implying he is modeling this. He knows far more details of your history than I do.

(((JM)))),

Your reply makes perfect sense, as usual. Thanks so so much for taking the time to get back to me on this. You know, my T and I went over this whole unwanted thing months ago, but I don't think it really hit me until yesterday when I was reading old letters that I sent to my folks from camp when I was 11-13 years old. Something about those letters triggered the magnitude of this whole idea that my mother didn't want me and it has sent me for a major loop, so tonight we'll talk about it and I'll ask him for his thoughts on the conflict I'm feeling and seeing in his idea. Of course, I will report back what he says.

I blows my mind how similar so many of our parents are. When I came along, JM, my mom had three girls, ages 10, 9 and 6. Your description of your mom that "she tried to soothe and take care of me to the best of her ability, of which fell painfully short of my needs, partly because of her current circumstances...She was never properly taught how to parent" can easily be applied to my mother. I'm sure our mothers were exhausted beyond belief and in every way, and when dad's routine consists of going to work, going to the bar, coming home, eating dinner and falling asleep in front of the tv, there really is only so much a mother can do.

But again, I am going to talk to my T tonight about this.

quote:

Originally posted by: incognito

Russ, about your parents. I don't think any parent feels absolutes about their children such as "don't want them". I think that your mother wanted you and loved you but at times was completely unable to provide what you required emotionally or support. I know that my parents, who don't want to know me as a person and have no acceptance of any negative feelings or experiences, still love and want me. Unfortunately, it is not enough. Also, my parents are great in physical emergencies (like your mother in the hospital) and very generous with money but dismissive, frustrated and even cruel about emotional issues. I always describe their attitude as there is nothing wrong until there is blood so there is no reason to complain, be upset, feel unless there is blood. So I know they love me and want me (they have 6 kids), the problem is they don't want me (as a person) and instead want the picture perfect children and family.

Wow, incognito, yours and my parents are remarkably similar. Holy cow.

I think you make sense JM.

This thread has got me thinking so much about my own past, I'm sorry I couldn't respond before. I'm still not sure I am but I'm going to try.

I've felt unwanted my whole life too. I never actually knew it, until recently. I always felt like I was overreacting, reading too much into things. I was bounced around from my mom to my dad/grandma to my aunt/uncle. My grandma told us over and over again she didn't want us, so there was no doubt there. My aunt and uncle took me, but only because my grandma wouldn't allow me to stay in the house anymore. I was the vocal, rebellious one when it came to dealing with CSA, and I guess my grandma couldn't deal with that. She'd rather stay in denial and not admit her son could do anything like that. So, I was sent away.

My aunt and uncle took care of my basic needs, and for that I am forever grateful. But, I never really felt like they wanted me, I always felt like a burden and never part of the family. They already had a perfect daughter and I would never add up.

After years of living with them I went away to college. I ended up in the hospital very close to not making it with a rare strain of pneumonia. My aunt and uncle didn't come to visit, at all. In fact, I had to call them with updates for insurances purposes. I didn't really understand the depth of this one event until my T pointed it out to me. I always thought my feelings were just me being selfish and not appreciating what they did do for me. It was just another sign that no one wanted me, no one ever really cared about me. I've been making excuses for them my entire life, but I can't anymore.

It's really hard to come to grips with this fact. I really feel bad for you all, because I understand how you feel.

quote:

The fact that my father went through a period that he wanted to give me up and I felt unwated by him most of my life, does not define the whole of my relationship with my father, nor does being unwanted for a time define me.

You make a good point here JM. My father was an alcoholic and an abuser, but he wasn't always like that. There were good times. And my mom was neglectful, incredibly selfish, and her life was not based in reality, but when her mental illness wasn't in control, there were periods where I could feel her love deeply. The dichotomy of these relationships confuses me at times but also offers some comfort.

I try to not let being unwanted define me. The sad thing is I still feel unwanted by everyone around me, except my husband. But I also feel that the way he wants me is the way my own parents wanted me, for their purpose when it suited them. Of course he's not nearly as dysfunctional or destructive as they were, but I feel the similarity. I know he loves me deeply, I'm just not sure it's healthy for either of us.

I'm not sure if I've pushed everyone away or the people I've chosen as friends just don't want to deal, but there is no one (except my husband and possibly his family) who would care too much if they never heard from me again. I'm trying to come to grips with that reality and figure out how to change it.

OW

quote:

and when dad's routine consists of going to work, going to the bar, coming home, eating dinner and falling asleep in front of the tv, there really is only so much a mother can do.

Did you KNOW MY DAD?? LOL!!!
Don't forget the verbal battering!

It is remarkable how similar all of our backgrounds are. But look at us now!

quote:

Also, my parents are great in physical emergencies (like your mother in the hospital)

This struck me because my T and I were talking about this in relation to me disassociating and growing up a victim of trauma. She said that a good percentage of people who disassociate are also very good in times of trauma. She asked me how I was in emergencies, and I said the calmest person in the room, able to take care of everyone's needs all at once and handle the emergency. I'm even able to comfort people when I find that extremely hard to to in non-traumatic, more everyday type situations.

Anyway, just a thought to add to the conversation.

OW

OW,
FWIW, I would very much care if I never heard from you again, it would really be a loss to me to have you not be here.

AG

quote:

I try to not let being unwanted define me. The sad thing is I still feel unwanted by everyone around me

(((OW))) You will continue to feel that way until you unearth why you feel that way about yourself You are still living the lie you were told by everybody in your family. BTW, those are all highly dysfunctional people at least as far back as your grandmother so you can stop believing them! But YOU have the power to change that negative belief my dear friend, because it is NOT true! You ARE wanted right here and unless you are surrounding yourself with people who do not deserve you like those who existed in your past, which is very possible, I am certain you are wanted, loved, and appreciated in other areas of your life! You are desirable, worthy, loveable, kind, sweet, honest, loving, helpful, caring...I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

As for your husband, he of course has some slight resemblance to your history or he wouldn't have fit in with you to begin with. But that doesn't mean there isn't a good side to him worth working with that matches the good in you. The hope is as we grow and learn our spouses will too. But there comes a time when there is an internal shift that takes place within us that affects all of our relationships (friends and family) and can create some real difficulties. And we may gain and loose some people in our lives in the process. We have to choose what is worth holding onto and what needs to be given up. So if your friends really don't care then they don't deserve you. Those we lose in our positive shift aren't worth holding onto anyway. What you are holding onto with them is the familiarality of your history and who needs that? One of the first things I learned in therapy is that we all seek what is familiar no matter how unhealthy it is. It's time for you to move away fom the destructive, unhealthy, unloving, selfish people in your life. Just to clarify, I am not counting your husband and his family in this category because you seem to indicate there is something good to hold onto and work with there. Not to mention I take marriage vows very seriously unless there are endangerment issues.

You have so much to offer and you don't even see it, do you? (((OW)))

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
(((OW))) ...unless you are surrounding yourself with people who do not deserve you like those who existed in your past, which is very possible, I am certain you are wanted, loved, and appreciated in other areas of your life! You are desirable, worthy, loveable, kind, sweet, honest, loving, helpful, caring...I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

this reminds of a line from this poem by David Whyte:

Sometimes it takes darkness and the sweet
confinement of your aloneness
to learn

anything or anyone
that does not bring you alive

is too small for you.

So I had a thoroughly awful T session last night. I explained my whole torment over his 'unwanted' theory and was shocked when my T asked, "where did this idea emanate from?" I was totally stunned. I said, "Where did it emanate from?! It emanated from YOU!!!" Did he actually FORGET that he's the one who planted this idea in my head???

What followed was a confusing, back-pedaling "clarification" about what he said/meant. By this time I had become so activated and foggy that I had a hard time following him. Basically he went back over the information and suggested that my dad was probably not thrilled that my mom was pregnant again and that she also may have had mixed feelings about it...so unwanted in that sense. Fine, I accept that, but it doesn’t explain why he wouldn’t know (or forgot) where this idea "emanated" from.

After talking some more, he said, "can we say that you felt unwanted?" Well, sure, we can say that all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that you just went from I was unwanted to I felt unwanted. Get your f-ing facts straight, man!!

I told him that I was really not OK with changing from one story to another, and he fell back on old reliable, "well, it's not that black and white." If I hear that lame excuse again I'm gonna vomit. Right now it just seems like code for, "you're never really going to get any straight answers about any of this."

So today I'm twice as confused as I was before, and my trust in my T is shot. If he actually FORGOT that he's the one who came to the conclusion that I was unwanted, I don't know what to do. I can't see such a mistake as forgivable.

Or, maybe in asking this question he was seeing if I had integrated the idea as my own yet, but I don't think so. He's not one to play games.

Or maybe I'm over-reacting.

Russ

HB,

You're totally right. I need to calm down and just talk to him about it. I tend to freak out (obviously) but I've calmed down a little bit since last night and this morning.

Your point about "staying with the confusion and see where it takes you" is really important. I tend to forget that misunderstandings, mixups and confrontations in the course of getting the story right is part of the story.

Thanks so much.
Russ

Russ,
I totally get your aggravation with your T forgetting he is the one who brought this whole unwanted idea up in the first place. My T and I encountered a similar problem over a diagnostic term she used and forgot that she used, and when I brought it up she reacted the same way, "Where did that come from?"
..."Uh, YOU! I never heard it before you mentioned it to me several weeks ago where else would I upull that out of?"
And she was like "Oh that's not good. That was my mistake then."
"UH...YEAH! And all this time you've been having accusing thoughts that I dreamed this up?" I was pretty pissed, but I guess in this case I once again have to make room for her humaness.

*I might attach a sticky note to her forehead someday that says, "Rememeber, I am only human." And maybe I should take down my shrine of her while I am at it. *

Since some of us tend to be more highly suggestable than others, I think its easy for us to pick up an idea and make more of it then it is was intended to be sometimes. This is especially true with our T's whom we accept much of what they say as gospel anyway. I don't know about you, but I have been sensitive this way most of my life. It's that whole black and white code we live by. I think this is an opportunity for you to work through old engrained habits.

I like what HB said at the end of her post

quote:

stay with the confusion and see where it takes you, this is as important as it feels.

I am sorry for how much frustration this causes you Russ, but as usual you seem to calm down and you are always willing to reason through it. You are very open minded and reasonable and that is a great quality.

Thanks, JM. I am going to talk with him about it again tomorrow. I just need to know if he did actually forget or if we just had some kind of miscommunication, because I think it's kind of like placing a hand grenade in someone's lap and then forgetting you left it there. If he did forget, it will make me really angry with him, and that will be good because I have such a hard time expressing anger toward him, so either way something good should come of it.

Cheers,
Russ

quote:

I was pretty pissed, but I guess in this case I once again have to make room for her humaness.

Russ

I'm thinking that pretty much most of us have a story of our T's saying something and then not remembering it. They do see a lot of people each day. When I repeated something back that my T had said about a month before that, she said "I never said that." I said, "Yes you did." So she apologized and said that IF she had said that, it was a mistake. HA! One for me. *about a billion for her *

Anyway, I agree with everyone else, that this is something you need to pursue with your T. It sounds like something very significant for you.

PL

quote:

I think it's kind of like placing a hand grenade in someone's lap and then forgetting you left it there.

GREAT analogy Russ, mind if I use it with my T? LOL!

But I say GO FOR IT with the anger! Even though it may be directed at him, it will still get to the heart of your anger with your parents. It's good. I hope you can tap into it. This could be textbook transference at work. I had a similar session using my anger with one of my T's remarks to lunge into my anger with my dad. It felt good and I think she liked it in a rather peculiar way.

Take care,
JM

quote:

If he did forget, it will make me really angry with him, and that will be good because I have such a hard time expressing anger toward him, so either way something good should come of it.

That's the way to look at the silver lining! I think you're right, directing some anger at your T may be very enlightening.

BTW, thank you so much for the link to the poem, Russ, it is particularly meaningful and I bookmarked it.

AG - thank you so much for your response. It really, really means a lot.

JM - Thank you too. I do feel very welcome and wanted here. This is the only place I'm not really afraid to talk and show the "real me." My H is a difficult situation. My T says that I'm becoming healthier and he may not be willing to make the changes necessary to be part of a healthy relationship. He is making some effort, so while I'm not entirely hopeful, I'm not ready to give up. And his family, that's where I have found the most love and acceptance as I've ever had. Unfortunately, they may not be so understanding about this entire situation, and I can't really talk to them openly about it all.

quote:

You have so much to offer and you don't even see it, do you? (((OW)))

Thanks so much JM. This brought tears to my usually dry eyes. I think I do see it, I just don't think other people do (JUST like my family never saw it, and still don't). It's nice to think that you think I have a lot to offer.

OW

I really do believe that OW. I am sorry if the H is having difficulty getting on board with a healthy relationship, but don't let that stop you.
JM

quote:

Originally posted by Hummingbird:

This has been niggling me since last night and i wanted to say something about it. I have very intense emotions and went through many years of my life trying to calm down. Unfortunately, what i didn't realise for a long time is that when i hear calm down, it means, avoid, deny, excuse, minimize or rationalize to me.

And what i have come to realise is that i don't want necessarily to be calmer, it would be like taking the waves out of the ocean and having a nice stagnant dead pool. I want to learn to surf the waves, so that when one hits me i don't get planted upside down under water. And that is what my T has been doing, giving me surfing lessons in a way . He has been teaching me how to keep my balance when a huge wave is knocking me off my feet. For some reason, it seemed important to clarify that.

*sound of nail being hit on the head*

quote:

OW, it is so hard growing and changing inside our family situation. When your own sense of self is so fledgling how do we contain the emotions of people around us? At one time i started to feel that my growth was causing suffering to my husband and it felt like a catch 22, one of us had to suffer, me or him. It was a trap, i couldn't stay where i was but i couldn't see a way to go further and it made me doubt what i was doing.

For me the lesson was about not taking responsibility for other people and their feelings. At the end of the day i am responsible for myself and my behaviour. There came a point when i could see that the difficulties my husband was going through belonged to him and were not my fault.

Man, this is exactly what I'm going through with my parents. They've been great in trying to be supportive, but they don't understand what I'm going through and they don't understand why I'm challenging them on the facts of my history and they are frustrated and confused. They "just want me to get better," as if I've got some kind of disease.

For my part, I'm afraid they'll "give up on me" and disown me or something. This is ridiculous of course, but it's not to my 7 year old self.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:


When I get like that sometimes I pull my hair, scratch myslef or bite myself. Is that the same as cutting? I know I shouldn't do that, I know it is wrong, but I feel like I need to at the time.

I don't eve know who I am anymore. I am not the same person. It is scary.
JM

I am so sorry you are going through so much pain. I can deff relate to you

This year is the first year I felt strong enough to go into therapy and actually work on my demons.

My mom is very sweet...yet was never there for me emotionally and told me things she should never have. As a younger person she told me my dad wanted her to have an abortion when she was pregnant with me and that her dad wanted her to have one too.

That stayed in me forever. I will never forget that remark. However I am learning in therapy that I am not BAD and I am GOOD... It is just a neg message put in my head..

I know your family didn't give you what you deserved, but you are so strong and if they don't support you than you are better off without them. They are missing out on a great person.

I know what feeling self hatred is... hurting yourself, because you feel so unwanted and bad. But you have support on here and a therapist (I think you said you had one).

It BLOWS that we have to nurture our inner children, to go through this process and to deal with this CRAP that our parents put on us...

neways I also get what feeling like you don't know who you are anymore. For me its like I lived a lie my whole life and now that I am facing the past.. I am a hollow person walking around in a body I HATE!!

it will get better... the pain has to be felt in order to get to the good stuff =( Sorry.. feel better!!