((((About))))

There is no need for apology. This is The Place to come when you are feeling scared and lost in therapy.

I'm sad that you are struggling so with your T and your imaginings of how bad you are and how much your T thinks you are a burden. You really aren't bad. It sounds to me like your T is frustrated that she isn't helping you more - not that you are a burden.

Is most of your struggle with T or is there something else going on? Can you share a bit more about SU feelings/ideation? Only if you'd feel okay about writing more.

I don't know what I can do to help, but I hear you. I hear that you've been having a really hard time. I hear that you are scared and don't know what to do.

Keep posting. We're here to listen.
-RT

(((About)))

I agree that your T was probably either having a bad moment or trying to get some sort of specific response from you, but I wish she had chosen a different way to respond. I can think of several that I think would have been preferable:

"I don't agree with that."
"Let's figure out a way to turn that conclusion around."
"That's just an echo of what you were taught when (insert life experience here); it's not reality."
"Human beings deserve care. We all need others."
"Would you be willing to draw what you are feeling?"
"What recent experience brought these thoughts to you?"
"In the past, what has helped you to cope with these feelings?"

There are so many directions she could have taken that. Instead, she chose a nondirection. Maybe she had something personal going on that prevented her from being 100% there with you.

It is not your job to be deserving of care in therapy, because you already are, by virtue of being a human being and a client. I don't say this to belittle your feelings, but to further express disappointment that your T handled that moment that way.

I wonder if you could talk with your T about how her lack of an empathetic response effected you at that moment?

Wishing you all the best and then some, About.

Thank you for your answers and help and not letting me alone with the scary feelings.

I did talk to my T about it, as I am... either very brave, or very worried, or the mix of both.


She admitted that the words could have been chosen more wisely. And that it did not mean I was 'bad', but... that she was willing to stay with that part of me which is hopeless and refusing her help, because I am all "but you are a human being, therefore I must be good to you, and I can't be sad in front of you". Which does defeats the purpose of therapy. She explained how she thought that one of the very important thing in therapy was to be able to experiment the 'bad' feelings with someone, and that this was the healing process, more than the "what to do", but that indeed, the part of me that refused to share my bad feelings refused to do that, and that it was this part she felt sad about, because she cannot reach it.
So, she explained how she was not going to leave, and not abandoning me, and I felt guilty for how much those words felt good and I wanted to keep them, if she could write them, or let me record them...

But then, things got confusing again. I was saying how I had trouble taking in the fact that she was not going to start refusing to talk to me or scare me or punish me to "teach me that i must not ever count on attachment", because ... that's what my childhood therapy did. And... then T asked whether I either wanted her to do that, or if I wanted to try another therapist.
You can there insert Evil Me laughing maniacally at how she could hardly have found any scarier answer.
I tried to say that no, and tried to tell her how I interpreted this question: she thought I should go somewhere else. Maybe wanted it. She said that no, it was not what she meant, she wanted to make sure I was not staying to make her happy.
It's unlikely, I rarely think that keeping seeing me makes people happy.

So it scares me again. Because it means she thinks I may want to do that. That maybe I should. That maybe I should look for a therapist who will be more hurtful, because maybe I am broken in a way that needs to be fixed by hurting and not by reassurance. She did not say that it should not happen, she said I could do it. Then it means it is fine, that I should not have been hurt. Let's be more lost. I am sorry I lack your insight, your ability to step out of your feelings to see what you are doing and analyze your feelings while you write.

And SU feelings: it is a stressful time, simply because academic applications and me are not friends, and I am messing up a lot of stuff. And also my brain is just crazy and just keeps feeling I am not supposed to exist, a burden, a mistake in... all my interactions. So it is more intense in therapy, but sadly not limited to it. And I have problems with SO (long-distance relationship, with which I have not problem, but it hurts her, and then... I should stop hurting her, and my sister and everyone. I am just not good enough to live.) Which is crazy talk, I know. I just... feel it very strongly and convincingly?

I just feel I am a failure in therapy, and she sees it, and she thinks I should leave, and I don't because I am a failure, precisely. Even though, I think she factually said it was not what she meant, what if it still is what she thinks?

Sorry, I am just... scared. Thank you all for your words. I am so afraid I 'break' everything, including therapy, by not being not good enough, and afraid.

Good for you for being brave enough to talk to your T about what she had said. I can imagine how scary that must have been. My T hasn’t said those exact words before, but sometimes he will say that he feels confused or frustrated because he doesn’t know how to help me. I appreciate his honesty, but it still feels terrifying when he says it, like I am too much for him to deal with. So I’m really glad you were able to bring it up with your T, and glad that at least at first, her response was helpful. Hearing your T say she wasn’t going to abandon you must have felt reassuring. I know it has always felt that way to me when my T has said it, although I do also understand the guilt/shame that gets mixed in with that.

I absolutely do not understand the way she responded after that, though. I can’t really imagine a scenario where her question about whether you wanted her to abandon you or teach you a lesson would be helpful. It is no wonder you are reeling from it. Her explanation doesn’t make any sense to me. Unless she was asking whether you really didn’t want to be in therapy with her, but were staying to make her happy, so maybe there was some desire in you for her to mistreat you so that you would feel justified in leaving her? That seems really convoluted to me, and if that is what she was asking, there were certainly better ways of saying it.

But I am totally certain that she didn’t mean that you should find a therapist who would hurt you. You do not deserve to be hurt. There is nothing inherently “wrong” with you. The way you feel makes sense, given your history, but just because you feel that way doesn’t make it true. Do you think you can bring this up with your T in your next session. That’s probably the last thing you want to do, but I think being able to talk about it more would be helpful.

Thank you Nannabee.

I feel I misunderstand so many things, and I feel I am being so unfair to her. Except I don't know if I am or not. And I think it was probably a... bad timing, because answering to the fear of being abandoned by the suggestion of another one is sort of scary. And being in 'almost crisis' certainly does not not help me not seeing everything as "everything will end baaad". Last session, I "understood" she did not care whether I died or not, while she was trying to help me create a safety plan. Gah, I am so stupid so often.


Do I send her an email asking her whether she cares?

Risks:
- it may be wrong
- it is probably not the most sensitive question, and it may be offensive
- what if she does not answer and I feel worse
- what if she answers that I must not email and I feel worse (the email situation is sort of unclear, she answers, though, they are not to be a regular feature of therapy)
- what if she does not answer and it proves she does not care
- what if she cannot say she cares, because it is up to me to believe it, therefore telling me she does would prevent me from being self-reliant
- what if she says she does not

But if I don't... I have to keep thinking she does not care, and it is ... painful?

About,

Feeling scared and feeling there are so many risks happens a lot to me too. Your list is rather the same of some I've had.

If you ASK someone if they are upset with you, there is no way to "be wrong". Accusing by saying "You are mad at me!" (which is something that could be correct or incorrect) is different than "Are you mad?"

It's not an offensive question, in relationships you have to ask how someone else is feeling because we aren't psychic. If the boundaries are a concern (whether she will contact back or not) it may be best to use something you know will work. I think a number of the risks or assumptions that are set up to be made on your T will be significantly lower and more set up for success if you're using the phone, or asking in session. I wouldn't want to put something sensitive out there, when there are no e-mail rules and I'm unsure if she will reply… it sounds like it will make things so easy to twist in to something that may end up activating.

What are the risks of NOT asking such as: I will make up thoughts/feelings that my T must have, I will talk negatively to myself not being sure, I will be nearly strangled by anxiety, I'll feel bad about myself, I won't get the care I want/need, etc. For example.

With my T, when I'd worry about her trustworthiness I would start to make up stories - she must hate me because of xyz, she must obviously think xyz about me, she did abc because xyz… the thing is… that's me putting my self hate on to a situation to protect myself. If I convinced myself she hated me… well, I was safe. I playfully did this with my T on the phone today - accusing her of something… that part of me takes as meaning 'something else', but really I know that's not what's going on. It's really hard to get to a place where we aren't doing this sort of thing - I don't think it's easy to make a habit of.

Anyway - I know I didn't offer normalizing and explaining, etc… but I think how you feel is normal. And why you are feeling the way you are, and why you are scared, etc is deeply rooted, and will take the consistency of your T and your hard work to make it through.


I hope you'll talk to your T - preferably through a reliable method.

Thank you Catalyst for your answer, and sorry it took me some time to get back to you.

I did end up asking, simply because I felt far too bad about it, to not hope for some relief. But I definitely need to discuss the email communication so that the situation is clearer next time (wait, am I not optimistic enough to say there won't be a next time?)

quote:

With my T, when I'd worry about her trustworthiness I would start to make up stories - she must hate me because of xyz, she must obviously think xyz about me, she did abc because xyz… the thing is… that's me putting my self hate on to a situation to protect myself. If I convinced myself she hated me… well, I was safe. I playfully did this with my T on the phone today - accusing her of something… that part of me takes as meaning 'something else', but really I know that's not what's going on. It's really hard to get to a place where we aren't doing this sort of thing - I don't think it's easy to make a habit of.

Yes! My brain exactly.... And I see myself doing it, but I have no absolute counter-argument (after all... she MAY hate me, even if I don't actually have evidence, it MAY still be true.)
Thank you for your answer.

Yes, she MAY hate you - but, ethically a T shouldn't see someone they HATE. So I have a feeling she doesn't

I ask my T a lot of she hates me… she says 'Not today… and not tomorrow or ever ever'.

Well. How true can that be? Ya know… it takes a long time to build up trust enough to at least assume they think they don't hate you.

I don't think ever in my life will I be 100% confident that deep down someone hates me but is just being nice because they haven't seen the reason to hate me yet.

So, thank you for writing back… I'm sad, but also a bit warmed to know that I don't sound completely nuts w/ my making up stories. It's a matter of learning how to make up better ones, I guess.

I hope all goes well talking about the email stuff!!