Kmay, I am so sorry to hear that you have broken up. I did it a month or so ago and it was just horrible. I needed a break and I felt my T needed to know that she had to change how she was doing things, because she wasn't attentive enough or listening to me, plus she did some things that let me down badly. For me it worked and my T and I have done a lot of hard work and we are doing really well now.

So i hope your break gives you both the chance to think about where you go.

SomeDays -
Thank you. I know you read my "Incredibly sad about T" post a few days ago before I deleted it. I thought alot about what people said, including you. I did some research. I did alot of thinking and sorting things out. ALOT. And I came to the realization that the relationship was only hurting me. It was not healthy anymore. This was probably the hardest thing I have ever had to do b/c you see our situation cannot be worked out or repaired as the boundaries have gotten so skewed and things are so messy. In fact, T agreed with me about that. She said she was so incredibly sorry that she hurt me. That she never wanted to do that. So while I joke about "breaking up with her" that is actually what I have done and it is incredibly painful. Incredibly. I have been crying most of the evening. But I know that it was the right thing to do. And her intentions were good but it was just so incredibly messy b/c of the dual relationship. And because she could never give me exactly what she had essentilaly promised she would give me. So while I am in pain now....I know that at some point it will get better. But had I stayed in therapy with her, the pain would have continued on and on. I was getting to the point where I could barely even think about her or go to therapy b/c just being in her presence was painful. It felt like a constant rejection or let down.
Anyhow...something that has helped me so far today. Everytime I get that knot in my throat and that gut wrenching feeling that I have done something terrible and I want to un-do it and I want to run back to her...I walk over to the mirror. I look in it at myself and I say over and over "She cannot help you. She cannot heal you. She cannot fix you. You are an adult. Not a child. You are an adult, not a child. She cannot fix the child." - I say it over and over and it really helps me. It grounds me, brings me back to reality and the reason why I had to do what I did. So...right now I am in incredible pain. It almost feels like someone died. Because I have so many memories with her (memories that 99%$ of people I am sure do not have with their T's) b/c of how the bondaries were...well basically non-existant.
You know, I have a son. He is 4 1/2 months old. T was there through my whole pregnancy with him b/c I had horrible anxiety b/c I was in fear that I would have post-pardom depression after I had him like I did with my daughter. My son ended up being born my emergency C section and he had to be recissated when he came out. He almost didn't make it. So it was very traumatic to say the least. T came to the Hospital to see me. She kissed me on the forehead when she came into the room in the NICU with me and my son. It was my Birthday (he was born 2 days before my birthday) She brought me a Happy Birthday hat, a piece of cake, and 3 very special cards. One for my Birthday. One congratulating me and Hubby. And one just to comfort me b/c she knew how scared I was and how traumatic everything had been. She sat in the room with me while I finished breastfeeding my son. (Yes...I just said that...you see how the boundaries are non-exsistent?) Then she held him. She kissed him. She hugged and kissed me when she left. I remember feeling so peaceful there with her b/c I was thinking "She loves me. She really loves me and my family." You see, my Mom is not well. She is sick. And it always feels like losing her is 2 seconds away. And I remember sitting in that room with T and my son (my Mom couldn't get to the hospital b/c she can't drive and didn't have a ride at that time) and thinking, maybe I don't have to be so scared about losing my Mom anymore, b/c T is like a psuedo-Mom. I really believed that...that she could and would fill that void for me when it happens. She was already filling in (in so many different areas) where my Mom couldn't, so why not right?
Well Surprise...joke is on me. I think a small part of me was wishing when I broke up with her today that she would offer that. Not to be my Mom or take her place, but to continue the relationship outside of therapy that has been going on this whole time anyway. But she didn't. I was getting used to the let-down feeling anyway so I guess it really didn't surprise me after all.
So...I am in awful pain. But there is also the tiniest bit of relief behind the pain. I can feel it very very slightly. I absolutley know that I did the right thing. So I am hanging on to that for now. I am proud of myself for that at least.
Thanks for listening...anyone who reads this little novel

's Kmay! Lots of them!!! Nothing I say is gonna take away the pain right now.



B2W

Thank you friend....

You are amazing that you have been able to stand back and look at your situation. You speak so very wisely and you have been through so much. Your T sounds like a nice aunty and not a T. Which is great.... but you need a T.

I am not happy with your T, KMay. She should have been the professional all the way along and she hasn't been. She really has done the wrong thing on a therapy level. Yes she has been a kind and loving human being - but you were seeing her as a T.

Don't throw away all that you have learnt and healed with her though. Take everything you have learnt and every bit of progress and take the next step to investing in a new relationship with a T.

You can do it.
Somedays.

Thinking of you

Somedays -
Oh I go back and forth between anger and hurt. It's hard for me to be angry at her b/c I love her. But the truth is, it was her job to keep the boundaries in line, not mine. And it's taken me this long to even figure out what was wrong. Why I kept feeling like I loved her and hated her. Why I felt I couldn't survive without her, but then didn't want her in my life. Why certain things she said and did felt like someone was stabbing me. oh...what a mess. I fear I am only at the very beginning of the hurt I am going to have to process to get through this. I emailed her my break up letter and she emailed me back. In her email she said the most important thing is that "I don't feel like she abandoned me." - I feel like she keeps saying things to keep my hanging on by the thinnest thread. Why would I feel she abondoned me? I broke up with her. I had to make that decision. Just like the decisions I had to make when I was a child. I had to make all the adult decisions when I was a child. I had to mediate between my parent. Stop fights. Talk to the 911 operator when my Mom would call over and over and hang up. Answer the door to the police. Try to reason with my Dad when he was sh**-tanked drunk. And now...as an adult (but in my child-like mind) I had to do it again. I had to do it - ME. I almost wish that she had abandoned me instead. I used to try to stay really mad at her when we had a disagreement and even try to make her angry at me and now I know it's because part of me wanted her to be the one to break up with me b/c it's so much easier that way. To be incredibly mad at someone vs. being in pain and still loving them.
I was thinking last night...oh man. I am going to need more therapy to get through this. But that thought seems unfathomable. First off, I am really scared that they are all the same. That another T will hurt me too. And while I was thinking of the possibility that I might need a new T one day, I was also thinking of how I would manage the siutation. I know for a fact, I would tell a new T that they absolutley could not touch me. That is where all the trouble started with this T. Just don't touch me. Don't comfort me and don't offer something that you can't fulfill. Also, don't offer outside contact. Don't let me call or text outside of the one hour we have together. Wouldn't that just sound so ridiculous? Can you imagine? But that is what has happeend. I feel like I am the one who has to make sure all the boundaries stay in place b/c I have no trust that a T can do it...

When you are ready to do it, how about write up your own list of criteria that you want in your new T, have the no touch in it, what your boundaries are, how you want the therapeutic relationship to be like, look like - document as much as you can. Do some research, read up on the forums here on what has worked for others and make up your own list. Feel like you have some of the control (as you do).

I think T said that thing about abandonment because she has realised that she has let you down in that she didn't keep therapeutic boundaries - it is her saying sorry and not wanting to cause you pain. She was too kind and over did the kindness and underdid (is that a word) the boundaries and therapy.

I am sure that all T's who see clients for the long term and become part of their lives wants to hug their clients when they are going through such pain - the difference is that the good T's don't do that. They sit there and bear witness to the pain, but they do not try and fix it by hugging and touching. They can't fix it.

My T has told me that herself. That sometimes it really distresses her to see me so distraught about therapy and she would love to offer a hug - but it is the wrong thing to do. She has to remain in control and direct the session - her needs are set aside as she is there to help me process and work things out.

Kmay, you are allowed to love your (ex) T. it is ok. Those feelings are real and they are good. You worked all this out on your own - that is an amazing thing - you have done so well.

You will get lots of support from everyone here, so don't forget that you are not alone in whatever next step you decide to take.
Somedays.

kmay-I find your strength amazing! The relationship with your T sounded like an aunt type to me too.
I wish I knew what to say to help you feel better.

I was having the same feelings with my T. I broke up with her two weeks ago. She didn't have the greatest of boundaries. It was like I had to keep them and set the rules or I had to ask her to lay it out for me. I knew so much about her life that we became more like friends during session. For 2.5 years I got to know and care for this woman and she cared for me as well. I ran into her outside of therapy a couple of times. That felt wonderful and confusing at the same time. During sessions I would sometimes ask about the boundaries. She would say we weren't going to go out to lunch, yet if I ran into her at such and such a place on a certain day that we could chit chat, but it wouldn't be more than that. I have her cell phone number. I asked her about the limits on that as well, but she would just say a brief call was fine. I only used her number 3 times and only one of those was a needing to talk about my problems type of call. The other two were thank you and positive info. type of calls.
She also asked me when I was ending therapy if I felt abandoned. I thought about it and told her at the second to my last session that that wasn't it...it wasn't abandonment...just that I was going to miss our relationship and our sessions. I looked forward to those every few weeks when we could sit and talk (almost like when you catch up with a really good friend over coffee/tea).
T (now former T) reminded me at my last session that it wasn't like I was never going to see her again...I might see her sometime out and about in the community or if I ran into her at that restaurant on that specific day. That sounds like she wants me to meet her there, correct???
She's said it repeatedly over the last year. I'm also a T in training, so we have talked about the T career. I am very very tempted to go see former T at the restaurant next week. ugh. That is so hard to pass up. I do miss her. I start w/a new T next week, so I hope this one can help with tools to managing my anxiety and not become my friend.

kmay-I hope you know you are not alone. We are all here for you!

kmay you are very brave, and we are all here to support you.

Scars, SomeDays, Athenacus, BLT -
Thank you so much for your support. I will write more later when my kiddies are asleep. I really appreciate all your comments. The tears have been spilling out today here and there no matter how I try to control it. Funny - I used to have trouble letting my tears come out. Letting myself feel. Seems I can't control it all now

SomeDays -
Yes, the list is a good idea. I wonder though, if I even want to get a new T. The more I think about it, the more awful it sounds. Build a relationship with T, get close, let my guard down, let all my emotions out, reveal the most painful parts of me...and for what? To know the impending doom is that the relationship will eventually end? It all seems so strange to me now. To put ourselves in a situation to only be hurt in the end right? Ahhh, I don't know.

About the abondonment, yes she agreed in her email that the boundaries had gotten messy. She also apologized for hurting me. Said she never wanted to do that, which I know.

I am so angry at her now though. She also said in her email that I was experiencing transference and that she had wanted to talk to me about it, but thought I was too fragile recently. I am just angry that I had to be the one to figure everything out. And that for so long, I listened to everything she said. I almost pictured her as a God-like figure. Someone who was always right, and never made mistakes. I trusted every single thing she did and said. And that just makes me so angry.
Well, I am ranting. Thanks for your support. I really appreciate it.

Athenacus -
I am sorry to hear about your break up with T as well. Seems strange that we, as the patients seem to be having to manage the boundaries, huh? The cell-phone...yes I had my T's cell number as well. The same cell number that I believe all her patients had. Howeve, we communicated daily. Every day almost. Especially during rough times. If she knew I was having a hard time, she would text me 3 times a day just with inspirational messages or to let me know she was there and thinking about me. I miss that now. But I am angry about it too.
Seeing T at the restaraunt - see that seems so strange to me. Howecome they get to bend the boundaires when they want? I mean can you imagine, we, as patients asked or even hinted about going to lunch? It all just doesn't make any sense to me. - Thank you so much for your support. And for helping me to feel less alone.

BLT - Thank you. I don't feel very brave right now. But I do still feel very much that I did the right thing, so that is good I suppose.

Hugs to all

kmay, you are incredibly brave. Amazing really. I could never have done what you have done. If my T let the boundries fall like that, of course I probably would have loved and would have fallen into it hook, line and sinker.

I do agree your T was not doing a good job by you. All T's aren't the same though. I think a good deal of them hold boundries very well. I have been with my T off and on for many years. She is as firm and strong with boundries now as she was in the beginning. Thankfully for me, as that really would be my downfall. She knows that about me too. Don't give up on therapy, as it sounds like you did some good work along the way. Maybe after some time off you will rethink your position and give it another shot. Good luck to you.

Kmay



You are such a strong person!! I'm inspired by how you handled this.

Take care of yourself through the healing!

Hey kmay,

I am going to say something that probably everyone will disagree with, but that's okay. It's just a thought and I decided I'd throw it out there for your consideration. If it doesn't resonate at all, by all means disregard.

Adjusting to a new baby has a way of bringing all of our attachment issues to the surface, I've noticed. I think it's the constant exposure to all of that vulnerability, dependence, and fragility. It would only make sense that would make us anxious about protecting our own "inner baby" if you will, especially if we have attachment injuries to begin with! I am wondering if this could be going on with you, perhaps making you want to withdraw from your T, thinking she is not safe, can't be trusted, etc.

On the other hand, those things may very well be true about your T, and maybe now you are just more sensitive to it. But I felt like while it does sound like your T is overdoing the motherliness and may be a bit smothering. . . none of what you've described seems wrong or unethical in itself, to me. If it is a problem for you, that is a different matter and should of course be addressed.

I may be biased towards thinking this way because your T reminds me somewhat of mine. My T tends to be nurturing and affectionate (though not so much with the physical contact), she does not police the boundaries as tightly as some, and she was very much there for me emotionally when my own son was born. So your post resonated with me a lot in those ways. . . I don't know. Just thought I'd offer another way of looking at things.

I know you are working really hard to make the right decision that is best for you, and I do think you should trust your inner wisdom! I hope nothing I have said here offends you.

All the best,
Heldincompassion

quote:

don't offer something that you can't fulfill

Hi Kmay,

My former P stretched the boundaries and made it seem like he was offering something that he could not ultimately give me. If I took out any 1 particular thing he said or did which didn't quite seem within the boundaries, most people wouldn't see it as being all that damaging, but when you add it all up, there was a dual relationship developing and a promise of a commitment which he did not, and really could not, keep.

He made me feel special and loved, until he abruptly terminated me. I wish I had been as strong as you are and had trusted my instincts when I felt that something just wasn't right about the relationship. I tried to leave a few times, but he drew me back in, and years later, I'm still dealing with the pain of his betrayal and abandonment.

That's not to say your T has intentions of ever abandoning you, but if your instincts are telling you that it isn't a safe environment then it probably isn't. I know it may seem fairly innocuous for her to be affectionate and reaching out to you beyond your sessions, but you need to ask yourself if she's doing all of this entirely to meet your needs or if she's possibly meeting some needs of her own.

Only in hindsight did I realize my former P was using me to meet his needs and it turned out to be very damaging.

I did see another T right after my termination and in my first session with her, I asked her how she handled endings with her clients and if she had ever abruptly terminated anyone. She was very open and honest, which made me feel comfortable with her. She remained very caring and consistent, but within firm boundaries, which I found quite reassuring and safe, allowing me to process a lot of the pain of abandonment with her.

I agree with all the others who think you are very brave in doing what you feel is best, even if it means leaving someone that you love. Your love for her is a testament of who you are but it doesn't mean you have to remain in a relationship that causes you so much pain and confusion.

Summer

Becca -
Thank you. I keep feeling so surprised at how brave everyone thinks I am. It is giving me strength though, so thank you. And yes, perhaps after some time, I will consider another T. But not right now. For now, everyone on this site is good support for me. It feels safer.

Stillhealing - Thank you so much. Again, these comments are giving me such strength and reinforcing that I did the right thing...which I still know I did

heldincompassion - Thank you...I always appreciate anyone's input no matter what their opinion is. You have a good point about the baby thing, however the situation with my T goes way beyond that. The boundary thing has been a problem for awhile and it just so happens that we started processing the most painful parts of my childhood recently and that is when everything went wrong. In all fairness, I really haven't given the full story here of everything. I wrote about it a few days before I ended with T, but I deleted that thread....I was just in a bad state. So yes, maybe what you have read on this thread does not seem so wrong, but there is so much more. Maybe I will write it out for everyone to see so that others can gain what they want from it. Thanks again for giving your insight on the situation. I always appreciate it.

Summer -I am so sorry to hear about P. I had said previously that I had almost wished that T had abondoned me so that I could be angry at ther instead of in pain, but I guess it's all just as painful in the end, isn't it? It can't be any easier the other way around. She had said to me before that I reminded her alot of herself, so yes...maybe she was filling some of her own needs. I don't know. I do know though, that what was happening was causing me more pain than helping me. Thank you so much for your kind words. I do love her. She had good intentions, but it just got so messy.

kmay-

My now former T also said that I reminded her of herself! I think she put it more like...you're a lot like me. Or sometimes she would say, "That sounds like something I would do!" At those times those words were warm and made me feel sooo connected to her. We do have common interests in some areas and my career path is her career, so she had been teaching me a ton.

I just met a T that has a private practice that seems to have flexible boundaries. She does in- home visits and even takes her clients to fast food restaurants. She also seems to be overly involved and I think that's why she tends to feel burnt out at times and wants to change her career.

T's are definitely different and how they practice is different as well. They still should be abiding by their code of ethics and law though.

I was just glancing through my counseling ethics book...(American Counseling Association) and saw that counselors ethically can go see a client or client's relative in the hospital or attend a formal ceremony if the counselor thinks it would be beneficial to the client. This is one of those decisions that a counselor would have to make possibly after consulting with another counselor or supervisor. Also, the counselor should document it all and the potential harmful consequences as well as the potential benefits. Regarding abandonment...counselors aren't suppose to abandon nor neglect current clients. They can choose to refer clients to other professionals who would better suit the client's needs or terminate the relationship if they feel they are in danger from the client or someone in the client's life puts the counselor in danger. Also, the counselor can terminate if he/she sees that the client no longer needs assistance, is not likely to benefit or the client is being harmed by continuation of the counseling or if the client isn't paying the agreed upon fees.

Once again, Kmay-

Athenacus -
Thanks for info. I like that. My T always said that I reminded her of "herself" when she was my age.
Oh I loved when she came to visit me in the hospital. And it was actually very beneficial at the time. And mostly it's just part of the memories that are aching in my heart right now because I know for sure that I will never be able to have her as a T again. Or have her at all...for anything, for that matter. I just can't. I think when I feel up to it, I will write out on this thread exactly what the situation was with us in case someone else can gain something from it...and avoid heart break.

kmay,



Hoping you are doing ok, and taking good care of yourself.


Blu

Blu - Thank you and sorry for the late response. I stayed off the site for a few days while I was trying to start to heal and sort everything out. But I wanted to say thank you for your support.

First of all, I want to say Thank you to everyone for all your support. You don't know what it means to me.
I have been broken up with T for almost 2 weeks now. I am doing ok. The pain seems to come in waves. We had some very brief email communication a few days ago and it did provide me some relief as she gave me some answers to some questions I had needed to ask. I have heard there is a "termination process" when therapy is ending that is supposed to make the transition a little easier and I didn't have anything like that so the email was helpful.

I have been thinking about weather or not I should try to find a new T. I looked on the internet a few days ago just to see who was in my insurance and read the reviews. I just cried and cried and really couldn't get any further. I know I still need to work on some of my issues. I also feel like I need to work out what happened with my T. Well, I know I need to work out what happened with her. If I am being honest, I have been self medicating to deal with the pain. Not good. But when I think about a new T, I feel like it's pointless. It seems crazy to seek out a new T in order to heal from old T and to work on "issues" that I feel like I have been "working on" for half my life with old T already. But then I also know that self medicating on a daily basis is not normal either. Not normal and not healthy so I feel like I need to work it out somehow. I am so incredibly scared though. It's hard for me to even put into words. I am so sure that I will be hurt again. I don't know what to do.

I’m sorry Kmay that you’re having to deal with such a painful thing and having a hard time with the feelings. Understandable, but difficult all the same

Have you thought anymore about whether to find a new T or not? I don’t know what to say here, my inclination would be to go find a new one, you never know you may meet one who is going to really help you with those long standing issues, more so than the T you’ve just left. As for seeing a T in order to get over a previous T, there’s many people who have done just that, so please don’t feel like there’s anything wrong with it. It does seem a tad ironic though that therapy itself can become the reason for needing therapy .

Hope you’re hanging in there ((((((((( Kmay ))))))))

LL

((kmay))
i dont know if i have anything useful to say, just wanted to say i read your story and i think you had the strength and the wisdom to do the right thing, but i'm sorry that its so painful.

maybe you can start the process of trying to find a new T, but you can take your time and do little by little so that it doesnt get too overwhelming. if you can find enough options, it might be good to have a shortlist of a few Ts, and make a plan to contact one in say x days/ weeks and have the appointment in xx weeks, just to pace yourself... and then also hopefully have a back up plan, if that one doesn't work out.

i hope it gets a little easier.



puppet

Here's something to consider:

Good therapy hurts sometimes, and can be difficult, but you can see steady progress overall and it will make you stronger.

Bad or questionable therapy can feel good sometimes, but in the long run it hurts you, makes you weaker and more confused, and causes you to need more therapy.

Now that you know the difference, you can find the good kind of therapist. And you can do the searching on your own schedule and interview as many people as you need before you decide.

Remember this is a process and it won't hurt this bad forever.

kmay,

I am glad to meet you but I am sorry it is during such painful circumstances! My T of five years terminated therapy with me 2 1/2 years ago. The pain felt unbearable. Thankfully, I found support and solace here on the Forum as I grieved the loss and ventured to find another T, one who would keep the boundaries necessary for me to work productively through deeply buried issues. I am sorry your therapist failed you but am glad you are also finding lots of support here as you adjust to living without frequent contact with her. This support will help you gain the strength and courage you will need to move forward.

I don't know what you will learn on this painful journey but for me, the break-up with my former T caused me to look at how hard it was for me to admit that she did anything wrong. I blamed myself. I couldn't bear to live with knowing she failed me. It stirred up layers of painful abandonment issues of when my mother repeatedly failed me. I had to let go of the good-mother image in my mother and in my therapist. That process was/is incredibly painful!

I know that nothing I say can remove the pain you are feeling right now. Let me encourage you to take your time and don't forget to be kind to yourself! You are stronger than you know. You have already proved it by recognizing the relationship was deteriorating and you ended it. You didn't cling to a hurtful relationship like I did! I believe you will get through this and you will come out on the other side a much stronger person.

I hope I didn't say too much about myself. I only mentioned a tiny bit of my experience so that you know how much I empathize with your pain.



deeplyrooted

LL,
Thank you. I keep going back and forth about weather or not I want to find a new T. I guess time will tell. Maybe I just need to grieve a little longer and then I can think more clearly about it.

Puppet,
Thank you. That is a good idea in fact about pacing myself. Maybe I will give that a try. Maybe I can find one in my insurance and then just at least set the appointment. I can always cancel it I need to. Just take it slowly I guess.

BLT,
You are so right. I feel exactly as you said - that my therapy hurt me, made me weaker and more confused. And yes, now I feel I need more therapy b/c of it. It's actually kind of funny isn't it? Like LL said, needing therapy b/c of therapy...lol

Deeplyrooted,
Very nice to meet you too. And I am so sorry for your pain (and no, you did not say too much about yourself lol.) I too, have found so much support on this forum. I honestly, don't think I would have been able to break up with T without knowing I had some support here to fall on to. I still know for sure that I did the right thing so I am sure I will be able to see what I have learned and gained from it when the pain and the fog clear up a bit. Thanks so much for your support.

's to all..