Hi Sheychen

Some things that get me through the in-between times are:

• Writing to T
  
• Talking aloud to (invisible) T
  
• Drawing
  
• Making sure I have other plans on the nights I don't see her. Dinner with friends, movie night, shopping, anything else that makes me busy anyway so I couldn't have had a session that night anyway.
  
• Keeping a diary, to share with her later
  

Now I will mention that I find some of these obsessive but it's the only way I can deal sometimes. The most important one for me has been keeping busy on days I don't see her and arranging to have other plans. Dinner out somewhere, movies, free art exhibit, bike riding, painting (a portrait of T maybe), and basically just trying to keep active.

Oh and I almost forgot, something maybe your T can do for you too. My T made flashcards with me in different topics like anti-stress, or motivation, etc. And on the back we made up a phrase or sentence to help me in regards to that topic and T wrote it out. So now, when I need a little motivational message from T, I can read the flashcard for it. She personalized the phrases with my name too. And I can look at the flashcards a million times a day without her knowing how needy I am.

Don't know if this helps you but I just wanted to share.

I sure do the talking to the invisible T a lot, I can actually hear her voice in my head. Yes, my problem is that I am not actually busy enough these days cos the issues made it difficult fo rme to work so I reduced my work. My T is just so slow on the up take, but at least now I am armed with some suggestions. this week I emailed, texted her and left phone messages just saying I could NOT make it to the next Weds and she said 'I have every confidence in you , see you next Weds.' which was agony.

Is it that she doesn't have room in her schedule to see you more often or does she only work certain days etc.? I'm sorry that you feel like you need to go more often and she can't accommodate that.

I like Forlorn's suggestions. I am not much help with coping between sessions. I have two sessions that are regularly scheduled and a 3rd that happens every few weeks and sometimes it is every week for a while. I've had one or two weeks where I went four times! I was not doing well going once weekly either and had too much overflowing after our sessions.

Things I do between my longer time between sessions (Wed to Mon) is that I write and fax T letters. She reads them all (although sometimes if she is super busy she will tell me that she only scanned). I try to stay busy, have planned activities etc. I sometimes have to call T, but typically only if I'm really bad off and setting up a 3rd session. Otherwise, I tend to cope on my own.

I love the flashcard idea. That is great. Perhaps a recording of some sort as well if she would be amenable to that.

She seems to be amenable to being recorded. And I see her tomorrow so shall try out all these various ideas. I feel a bit justified in my agony, like I am not mad, other people feel this too! I am determined to make it okay for me, by thinking of things and suggesting things. Fingers crossed

What an awful night, I could not sleep knowing that I would see my T today, it was like being in a room and she is now just on the other side of the door and it made it even more painful cos it was nearer ...
I hate all this. I am worried about how today will go, whether she is doing what I fear she is doing - creating a 'I know you can cope' boundary or whether she will actually hear how bad it is for me. I am even beginning to doubt how bad it is for me, as I could be unconsciously making it up for attention or something and then she would be RIGHT to say, 'sorry, no contact between sessions, see you next week' but arghhh, the thought of that hurts terribly and then I start feeling it all over again.Anyone know a good book about this? My old therapist, who I occasionally ring (she is in a different part of teh country and I have not even seen her in ten years and then worked with her over 20 years ago) she said, 'Oh you might appreciate her being firm in the future, ' like: you need to be stopped from needing her so much. Arghhh.

Maybe I am playing some funny game. Maybe I am testing my therapist N, but not realizing it. And she is set up to fail because that is what I unconsciously expect. So I can't even hear when she isn't failing, I just hear the negatives.
Today was not nourishing or anything, it was like wading through exhausting treacle and a lot of the time I did not even understand what we were trying to talk about. I was told it was about 'misunderstandings ' and I got as far as recognizing that I am annoying and irritating her. I remember I kept saying sorry and really feeling sorry but some of the time I was not even clear what I was being sorry for, it was all vague and surreal really.
I feel it is quite hopeless. I feel that I am shouting what I need, and N tells me that she does not hear what I am asking, just like HeartFriend. They both don't hear me. I don't know whether I am speaking a different language.
then N said all about how so many people are really trying to help me and all about the surgery trying to help me too, and I just didn't really understand that either. Like I can't hear what SHE is saying. Like she is shouting back "we are all trying to help you' but shouting that back, doesn't make me feel any more helped. Which is frustrating for both of us. Like I am grateful for support but I am missing the link in my being somehow. I guess maybe I hear, "you are such a problem and we are all making ways to try to mend you but you are not appreciating that'. A meeting to discuss a problem does not help me feel cared for. I know that I am supposed to feel very cared for but it is a meeting and people might be talking about me and I guess the best I can get, is that they are trying to help and care but I feel a problem. Urgh.
So I end up feeling wrong. And there was a long bit about not being about it being wrong or right. But from where I sit, it seems to be all about pointing out what I am doing wrong, that I am not appreciating the help I am being given, that I am making unreasonable requests, that I am in the wrong for not being so happy with it all, etc etc that I was doing fine last week so why did I not stay fine etc etc.
If I said that, I would be in the wrong too.

So tiring.

I feel like I am still ploughing through treacle. I do remember that I said at the end that I want to switch off but like I can do that - duh. I never know what is going to happen next.
So now I feel I have to switch off and if I can't - again I am wrong.

But on top of all this I can see actually in her body language and her face and her eyes that she is just so frustrated and irritated and that she feels she is trying really hard and I am being so unreasonable and not being reasonable enough to accept that she is trying so hard. but I do accept that she is trying so hard to understand, but it does not mean she DOES understand. She doesn't. I can see that she WANTS to understand but that does not mean she can. So that is tiring cos it means I have to work out how to explain how I feel when I can't explain how I feel to myself. I feel weird and strange and really wonky. I feel prickly and on edge and easily shouting y. I feel frightened by what I might say or do next, which is why I have stopped my lifeline of ways of contacting her. I feel frightened that I have done that. I feel frightened that I have to get to Monday and be okay. I feel frightened that at this rate she will give up on me simply cos I will wear her out. I am wearing me out.

Then there was a really weird bit where she seemed to be explaining that no matter what happens I cannot heal the part that was left and hurt and abandoned when I was little. Something about you can't have the mummy you did not have and you can't have the daddy you did not have. And I could not replace them. She said i would not be able to understand that now but maybe I would one day. That scared me so much I nearly walked out, cept I felt too ill at that point to get up. (Awful stomach cramps.)
I had listened really hard when she said all that and I tried so hard to understand it but then I felt weary to the bone cos I realised that I do not believe that. If I believed that I would give up right now.
Then i realized I would have to argue back and disagree and it seemed such an uphill task to even start on that. I did though. I said that I don't think you can go back to being a child and start again but you can find people who if you are open and honest about what you feel, you can heal parts that were shut down when really little, which is what I am experiencing with N and also with HeartFriend. And people heal other people by being kind to them and being gentle to them. I KNOW I cannot find a new Mummy and a new Daddy, I am just wanting some holding, hearing, listening and acceptance, but she seems to be saying: well that will not happen cos it was their job to do it and they messed up and you are going round wanting it and you are not going to get it, you are going to have to do it for you.
Imagine me sitting holding me and me sitting accepting me, right now, FAILURE.
So I don't think she is right, cos if I could do this, I would be doing this and would not need her at all. So maybe she was saying I am wanting too much. So that means I am too much. Which I fear to be true. It doesn't take long for someone to come back at me and say that. So we get back to the central point to me which is that if I open up and admit how hurting I am and then I start feeling it and feeling overwhelmed by it and REACH OUT, then I am told I am too much and expecting too much and round and round we go again.

But she may be right, it may be that I am stuffed up for life now. Then she said she did not say that, that you couldn't heal. At that point, I truly gave up. I find it enormously tiring listening so carefully and then being told that she had not said what she had said.

I can't make sense of any of this. It is like looking at very complicated sums - it is not making sense to me. Or looking down the wrong end of the telescope.

And I got no stepping stones, she is still not taking that bit seriously, she still refuses to hear my requests for that and now I have given up asking, why ask if you are ignored. She said I have not ignored you, I have given you my cardigan and let you email and phone ... and I know that once she gets all indignant I have to just let her keep going until she runs out of steam as she won't hear that I am not finding the present non existent (except for cardigan) enough. She will not hear that. Why do people not hear?
I also asked for her to record positive things into my recording device and although that was important to me, I did not get that done by the end. I do not use my time well there, I just felt too ill and too tired and too exhausted. It is wearing me out. I cannot keep trying to listen and being told I am not hearing right when I am shouting and not being heard right at the same time.
I know she does care. So am I testing her? It does not feel like it. It feels hopeless.

And when she suggested that instead 'I" record my voice saying it, I almost gave up again. It just feels like no matter how I say what I would find helpful, I will not get it.

"These may be the things you want but you will not get them. Our ears will not hear you and are arms will not hold you and our mouths will say other things."

So I am left feeling like I am fighting for something I am not sure I want to be fighting for, I did not want it to be that hard.

And then she said the bit about unconditional acceptance and I knew that she wanted to believe that that is what she is doing but it seems so naive to me, it is something to AIM for but not even Carl Rogers really could manage it. I just looked at her and felt we were too far apart to even communicate on that one.

Then she was still looking ill too. So both of us under par and we both should probably have stayed in bed.

And I am so fed up of me right now. It is just too awful. I still feel that I have been tricked somehow, into becoming the person that is really underneath and then that me is a mess to the nth and I did not know I was THIS bad.

the only bit that felt like we were actually communicating was when I showed her Millie Bunny. That was definitely the best bit. She saw Millie, and I was glad Millie had met N.
God, how mad is that.

At least I saw and heard that she said she was not frightened of me. I hope I can remember that.

I’m really really sorry to hear how your session went - and I can hear your pain and confusion so clearly. Reading your words reminded me so much of my own situation - that sense of fairly screaming the words and still not being heard, the drive to put what I need to say into ever more precise words ever more clear explanations and STILL not being heard, not being understood. And the sense of the other talking a foreign language, as if what they are saying is supposed to relate to what I’m saying in some way but it just doesn’t make sense.

Worst of all that awful feeling of being made to admit my profound needs and pain only to have it thrown back at me with the words ‘well you can’t have it’. Sometimes I’ve felt that I’ve been tricked into admitting it - despite trying my best to get rid of the need, to control it, to kill it off - and that being tricked into revealing it is all part of some universal master plan to make me accept that it’s something wrong with me that I never got loved as a child, and that there’s something even more wrong with me now for continuing to want that love.

Sheychen it sounds like your T was really struggling this session - struggling to stay with your fear and pain and confusion - struggling to find the right things to say and the right way to say them that would make sense to you.

I’d like to be able to say that actually even if you can’t in the present get the love and caring and understanding that you needed from your parents, you can still get some of those old unmet needs met today - but I don’t know. I’d like to think it’s possible, but having spent most of my life running from person to person trying to get those needs met, I’m now in a position where I believe the thing that’s going to heal me, to make me feel better both generally and about myself, is facing all the feelings that that need creates, facing the feelings of needing/wanting/not getting and somehow working with and through those feelings.

This doesn’t mean suddenly stopping needing or stopping trying to get the needs met - it means being able to go right into all the feelings that it all brings up (and that’s where a good T is essential). I’m not sure I like the way your T was practically shouting at you that quote I get the sense that she was rather desperately trying to ‘make’ you see something that not only weren’t you able to take in, but seemed to be said deliberately to oppose something you were trying to make clear to her. I am not surprised you’ve come away feeling so totally confused and scared.

How are you feeling today? Does the session make any more sense in hindsight? I hope you are doing ok (((( Sheychen ))))

LL

p.s. I can't get the link to your blog to work - maybe there is a block on this forum or something?

thank you for your comments, I hope you don't mind but I posted them on my blog under LL, as they are so helpful. I click on my block url and it worked, so maybe it is a problem at your end?
I feel a bit better today, I am not so mad at her and actually she was ill and worn out and was probably not having a good day and then i come in and rage at her. I think I am just wanting to get mad at her cos I feel safe with her now, but also trying to get some emotional caring, which she does do, but I guess she is picking up that I want a lot of that. I have actually a couple of people in my life who are giving me a lot of love and care and so I am feeling a bit replenished and she is good on most days, just not yesterday. Yesterday was actually probably the worst therapy session I have ever had. Urgh.

Still Whirling. What to Do.
I don't know if I am just crazy, but I have copied the messages which happened last week, which upset me. I thought I was very clear in my first message, reaching out and asking for a stepping stone.
I get the:
"I know you to be a capable and resourceful adult and mother.
... I look forward to seeing you next Wednesday as planned" in response.

then after three days of being so upset by this, by being told to reach out if I need to etc etc etc, and being basically told that my asking is going to be ignored, I write back my hurt and angry message explaining why I am angry and how I needed a stepping stone, (this is still three days to go) and I get:
"I can hear that you are angry that I was not able to respond to you over the weekend in the way you feel you needed it, at the time you needed it.
I am still looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday at 2.00 p.m. and we will be able to talk about it together then."
And then when I see New Finder and ask her why she choose to say that, to ignore my requests and in fact throw it all back at me, she says I did not make it clear. I think I am VERY clear.

Am I over reacting? This is just getting very hard to tell. I have people advising me to change my Finder fast, that she is out of her depth and not at all experienced in attachment issues and the extent of PTSD pain. That she is trying very hard to contain me in the therapy session slot and not have me leak in any way. Wouldn't that be nice and tidy. Maybe she is a very tidy person. And PTSD is not a tidy thing.

Feed back requested. I am thinking of stopping working with her, I need someone with whom it is not so difficult to communicate with. I don't remember ANY of the Finders I have worked with before, not understanding to the extent that NewFinder does not understand. I wonder if it is because she has family stuff going on which is pre occupying her ( I know this is the case) and so she does not hear and forgets and is over worked too so in a way I feel it is unfair to have a LostChild like mine requiring her time and attention. Of course it would break my heart to leave, but I have to put LostChild first, and she is giving up right now. She can only take so many no's. And she feels like it is too like home, where she was not allowed to feel angry and she was not safe and not heard and certainly not understood, and also she had to always protect her mother and put her mother first and made to feel really guilty if her own difficulties caused her mother any upset. I feel I am actually going to be in a situation where I have to protect NewFinder and not be angry and not upset her and not reach out to her because her own needs and difficulties make it impossible for her to help me or even hear me.
Not good huh. And so I leave.
So these are the transcripts.


To NewFinder:
-2-3-4 hard to tell

I am not feeling okay, and next Wednesday feels like ages and ages away and I am not really managing to soothe myself like I used to, and I am also ill, (me and my daughter with high temperatures and throwing up since about 8pm last night and in bed all day which is probably not helping) but I am requesting help or a stepping stone, or something.
Please.
I am sorry for asking but I am realising that asking is better than not asking, which gets too tight after a while.
I wish I could just talk to you for a few moments at some time.
But you might be away.
Sheychen
Ps actually, just thought that I could type out those affirmations that I wanted you to say so that I can record, and you can see if you can amend them or adapt them into something you could say. i wish I had recorded you on Wednesday, I just felt there was too much going on to do that as well. I have typed them out now, and attaching.

Hello Sheychen, and I am sorry to read that you and your daughter are poorly, and hope that by now the symptoms are beginning to ease a little and that you are starting to recover - it would be very understandable to feel low when ill. I know that the medical team at Thornbrook will be happy to be contacted if you feel that either of you are not improving by today. Unfortunately, there is no mobile reception where I am at present, so I hope this email will be reassuring: I know you to be a capable and resourceful adult and mother.
It was very kind of you to send the chapter from Margaret Warner, and the page of affirmations arrived as well. I look forward to seeing you next Wednesday as planned and hope that you will be feeling better very soon.
Very best wishes, NewFinder

Child -4 Adult +1 (anger level 6)
Hi NewFinder
You know those riot shields, riot police put on when people are throwing things at them? Well this is a riot shield warning. I would put one on if I were you if you are going to read further.
I just thought I would say that I asked you for help and a stepping stone, that the gap was too long and you said
"I look forward to seeing you next Wednesday." That really hurt. Now I feel both hurt and angry.

Why did you encourage me to say when it feels really bad, if you are going to then turn round and say 'You are a capable and resourceful mother and adult."?

If you want me NOT to reach out when it feels really bad, I have been doing that all my life, I am very good at it, and I can continue doing it. No problem.
But
I thought it was about learning to ask for help when things feel too bad, and stopping turning inwards, and admitting what would help right now. Trying to trust that it is okay to tell when it feels too bad and just sometimes five minutes of contact with you makes it more manageable . this phase is NOT going to last for ever, but I tell you, it is bad when it is bad.

If you are saying; 'I don't believe you ' or "stop pestering me" then just say so. If you are thinking "she has got to learn to cope on her own, she can't keep doing this." just say so. If you don't want me to feel those parts of me that are hurting so much, then stop encouraging me to go there.

For some reason I feel hurt and angry.

I feel you encourage me to feel what I feel, acknowledge it and then when I have done what I find hardest to do, reach out, you have said 'tough' and "I am going to ignore this request. Let's teach Sarah she can cope on her own."
I KNOW i can cope on my own. What do you think I HAVE been doing for so long?????????????

The being poorly was only a side issue, that was not why I was not feeling okay. (but yes, when I feel physically ill my normal response to be tough and cope on my own, gets weakened. Which was why I texted you in Oxford, the headaches WERE really bad but the emotional pain was far worse. And again you said, go get medical help. Duh.)

AND as for the team at the surgery I lost confidence in them ages ago, as they have two responses
1. I don't know
2. take pain relief.

yours crossly but strangely enjoying being cross at you too, which is odd. Maybe I feel safe enough to be cross with you now. urgh. Sheychen


Hello Sheychen and thank-you for your email.
I can hear that you are angry that I was not able to respond to you over the weekend in the way you feel you needed it, at the time you needed it.
I am still looking forward to seeing you on Wednesday at 2.00 p.m. and we will be able to talk about it together then.
Very best wishes, NewFinder
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

( I read them just now and her replies seem much more reasonable. Weird huh.)

sheychen, i have looked at your blog, and your thread, and relate so much to where you are. i think i was exactly there with t1, and just thought it was my inability to express properly what i felt and needed. all to what felt like a slightly exasperated blank wall.

i did leave, amicably. long story short, i have just been in two sessions with a dbt t, i have a thread on it.

i don't know, but i would, if i were you, continue on with the t you are with, but in the mean time, find a dbt person to talk to, just to 'see' if this is a place that could help you with emotional regulation and peace.

you seem to have done so much of this, with your retreats and all, and dbt is pretty dry? maybe??

it seems those emotions are so hard in between sessions, and it is all being projected possibly on this one request of being held. i wonder if that would reaally satisfy it completely?? sometimes, like a chocolate chip cookie, i think i will be completely satisfied, but, i get it, and i am not. and then the frustration of eating it and not being completely satisfied hurts more than the wanting.

not that this is a cookie, i so hear and feel your pain. but, this ONE thing, the hug...man, it would have to be a pretty magical hug to complete your yearning.

just a thought, please know i am only a very weak opinion, as i am juggling so much of my own stuff, i probably am only projecting myself onto your words.

great blog. jill

quote:

sheychen, i have looked at your blog, and your thread, and relate so much to where you are.

thank you for replying, I appreciate it. We have similar issues, I think we are also in contact through another site.....
I did not just want a hug, I wanted her to HEAR that I have a very hard time between sessions, the gap sort of retraumatises me and that if only she would think of something - so that I FEEL like she is really there, it could be a text, or a permission to email her how I am doing or SOMETHING.
Not a hug.I get those in therapy
but I might not after I tell her what I am aiming to disclose to day, Gulp.

She said that during this nine day gap, she would phone me on the fourth day at 9am for 15 minutes. she said she needed to think about me recording a session.
She was exceptionally kind and real today.
urgh.
i feel 2 yrs old.
I am experienced at therapy and all this stuff, and yet I am rampaging around like a 2 yr old.