quote:

Originally posted by pippi:
He kept calling her babe and at the end he said "I love you." And then he wants me to go right back to talk about the transference. That was almost as painful as seeing him hug the other patient. It was really hard to start talking after that.

Pippi,

This really troubles me.

1) why on earth is he answering his phone during your session?
2) why on earth is he talking as if you're not there?
3) why on earth is he hugging patients?

This all sounds really, really sketchy to me. I mean honestly, it sounds like this guy shouldn't be practicing therapy at all. You deserve to see someone who understands how therapy should be done. Transference is not something to be trifled with. It's critically important and needs to handled properly. It doesn't sound to me like this guy understands the therapeutic relationship.

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by pippi:
He kept calling her babe and at the end he said "I love you." And then he wants me to go right back to talk about the transference. That was almost as painful as seeing him hug the other patient. It was really hard to start talking after that.

Pippi,

This really troubles me.

1) why on earth is he answering his phone during your session?
2) why on earth is he talking as if you're not there?
3) why on earth is he hugging patients?

This all sounds really, really sketchy to me. I mean honestly, it sounds like this guy shouldn't be practicing therapy at all. You deserve to see someone who understands how therapy should be done. Transference is not something to be trifled with. It's critically important and needs to be handled properly. It doesn't sound to me like this guy understands the therapeutic relationship.

quote:

he said "ding ding, times up" and stood up to walk out.

I'm pretty sure I would've punched the guy right there.


Russ

Pippi, I am so so sorry that your P treated you this way. I am appalled that he wasted your precious 15 minutes by chatting with someone else on the phone. And when he said "ding ding time is up" that was unprofessional, rude and irresponsible on his part. A good P/T needs to check in with the patient that they are in a good enough place to leave and end the session in a way that does not cause the patient additional anguish.

What I'm hearing in your story is that this is not so much a transference as the fact that you have an attachment injury and you have attached rather strongly to your P. I know you had an abusive history and this is common when you don't have the opportunity to attach to your caregivers as a child. So we later go on to attach to other people looking to get our needs met from them. Your P meets some of your needs and so you have attached to him. Does your P know anything about attachment theory?? You may want to google it and read up on it and then talk to your P about it. I'm not there in your sessions with you but it seems that your P does not understand that you CANNOT just "will" yourself to break the attachment to him. In fact, the only way that I know of to solve the attachment dilemma is for the P/T allow the patient to attach for awhile and to work through it by allowing dependence and offering reassurance to the patient, over and over again, until eventually the patient needs it less and less. What actually happens to those of us with attachment injury is that we actually have a developmental history that has gone awry or that was stunted. So we are trying, as adults, to go through these developmental phases with the help of our T/Ps. But a T/P has to understand what is happening and unfortunately, a lot of them are trained to believe that ANY dependence on them by a client is an unhealthy thing. And so their discomfort with allowing the attachment to develop. What your P is doing by getting annoyed with your attachment to him is reenacting your childhood when you could not depend or attach to anyone. This is just making you more driven to attach, because, as children we need our caregivers to survive. We are biologically driven to attach.

Maybe if you can approach things with your T from this angle, he will be less fearful of your transference and allow you to depend a bit more until you learn that you can do it alone without him.

Over time I have seen over and over again that there are 3 common threads that seem to run together.... transference, an abuse history, and attachment injury.

I'm so sorry you are in such pain Pippi, but please don't do anything to harm yourself. Your children and family need you. Please use this forum to vent your anger and upset with your P. Personally, I think he owes YOU an apology for his unprofessional behavior.

TN

Thanks for the responses. I am a little more calmed down right now but still pissed off and I emailed him and told him how I felt about him answering the phone and asked him what he wants me to do during session or talk about to make him happy cause nothing I do is ever good enough. I told him how I felt after the session and that I even felt like crying, actually I did on the drive home. He responded and said what he wants me to do is to stop acting out, which he was referring to the last statement I made in the email about him not caring about me and that he doesnt care if I get better cause either way he gets what he wants cause either I dont get better and he stops seeing me or I get better and he wont need to see me. Then he told me what he wants is for me to talk during session just like I did in the email. If I get pissed off because he answered his phone and said I love you to someone else in front of me then he wants me to tell him that Im mad and tell him how it made me feel.
I have had two people who are very good therapists tell me that they really believe that every thing he does is for a certain reason because he is honestly known as the best psychiatrist around this area and that he doesnt treat all patients like me. But that they believe because I wasnt feeling any emotions in session he was trying to make some come out because that is his job and that anger is the easiest emotion to get out of someone which is why he was trying to make me angry enough to stand up for myself and feel the emotion in his presence and then if I could feel that one he could possibly bring out some other emotions, but instead I held the anger in and refused to let myself feel it.
The problem is that when I get angry at him it turns to sadness and for me anger is the worst thing I can feel cause I have to hit something or hurt myself to release it, which my husbands things would be good to let him see that so he can help me learn to release it in a better way.

I am still pretty mad at him but after reading the email I can see that he might have been doing that and that he wanted me to stand up for myself when he stood up and said the session was over. But I still dont think there is any reason why he should have answered his phone during the session and talked to the girl on the phone like that. Usually he asks if its okay and I say yes cause I like listening to how he treats others on the phone and the way he acts to people outside his therapy life, but he will tell me it thats its an important call and ask if its okay and if I were to say no he wouldnt do it.

I did email him back and asked him if we could consider doing the hour long session once every two months cause those sessions are only $200. That would give me more time with him and maybe it would make it easier to start talking and really work through stuff and feel stuff instead of trying to do it all in 15 minutes. I have not heard back from him on this but I am hoping he says yes. 15 minutes sessions cost $75 and 30 minutes are $150 so I would really be getting the same amount of time for a cheaper price.

FOT- I was lucky that it was Thursday because that is the day during the week that I get to write my old high school psychologist and tell him what happened and get his take on it. It is nice to be able to check with him because he knows my psychiatrist very well and they have shared several patients and he knows me very well and has known me for over 10 years. So he knows me better than I know myself. I am considering calling my therapist because she told me since we are working on abuse that if I feel like cutting or drinking to call her and let her know.

Russ- the patient he hugged was a mentally ill girl that was probably about my age but more on the level of a 12 year old. He said he doesnt hug me because of the transference issues and that he doesnt have set rules for all his patients, he does what he feels the patient needs at that time and if he felt like I needed a hug and he could do it without making the transference worse than he would. But right now the transference is so strong that he cant do it.
Not sure why he answered the phone this time and acted like I wasnt there cause he is usually more considerate when he is on the phone and has never even said anything like he did that time and always makes sure its okay with me if he answers the phone.
I think he would have liked it if I would have shown that kind of anger and told him I felt like punching him. Instead I held it in and didnt show the anger and cried the whole hour drive home and thought about punching a wall or beating the crap out of my wrist with a hammer...anything to get the anger out when I guess I should have taken it out on him right there, maybe not violently but he wouldnt have minded if I yelled at him and cussed at him and told him how I felt.

Monte- thanks for the reply. Its nice to know that I am just not being overly jealous cause I sometimes wonder if I am just being ridiculous about feeling that way he seeing him hug other patients or saying he loves someone else when thats what I want from him. I always wondered if other people would feel the way I do or if I am just over the top.
I do see a female therapist and I am thinking about calling her just to let her know how I am feeling even though it is not related to the abuse because she said if I feel like doing anything to call and I am sure she would want to know. I did email the lady I was seeing from church. Have not heard back from her and think she is out of town right now cause she would have written. I have not gotten to meet with her since March cause she went out of town and then her mom died so that support has been taken away but we have been discussing starting back up soon and I cant wait.

TN- I have started looking up that attachment theory. I had never heard anything about it and I asked my old highschool psychologist about it to see what he says about it. He explained it a little and said that transference can be said to come from the same basis, but that it is possible that I have the disorganized attachment. I have not found much information on it yet but have tried googling it and the information it does say about the disorganized treatment sounds a lot like me. I am going to try to find out as much information as possible before the next session and what is says about dealing with it. My Old P said dealing with it is much like dealing with the transference but didnt really explain it. I just need to find more information and figure it out and then bring it up at next session.
Even if he doesnt think I have it he will be happy that I am talking and saying what I am thinking.

ultraviolet - I dont know anything about sadistic tendencies but my husband tells me all the time that my psychiatrist is as screwed up as I am but that if we can figure out how to make this relationship work it would be good for both of us. And since he has been there for me so long that I should keep trying a little longer. My old P said that I need to stop worrying about what my P wants me to say or do and stop trying to earn his approval and attention and acceptance and just say what I feel cause thats what he really wants from. They say I dont have to earn the acceptance and approval and attention that its there no matter what. But if that is true then why do I feel that I have to work so hard at earning it. I think I am going to discuss this with my P when I see him and tell him that I feel like I have to earn it from him and get his take on it.

Hopefully he will go for the longer session times and that I can work with my therapist and christian counselor during the two months between sessions.

Pippi - so sorry that your P was such a jerk! Sorry, my opinion. I find it very disturbing that he acted the way he did. I can understand that maybe he is pushing you a bit to get more of a reaction out of you, but it seems cruel to me. I probably would have told him off and just left. I understand that you have an attachment to him and it is hard to do that. I don't think I would let him do it to me again though.

Hopefully he will be a little different the next time you see him. If not, it is your choice, but I would start looking for a new P.

Sorry, just my opinion.

dragonfly- I have been think on this all day and I am not exactly why I cant open up to him. But it is not just him, it is every one in my life when it is in person. I can write things down on here or email what I feel all day long, but saying it in person or even reading what I write in person I just freeze and shut down.

I think part of me does believe he is going to abandon me. I tell him I want to have sex with him but its more than just that. I want him to force me to have sex with him and make me do things I dont want to do just like other men and my life did. I think I almost feel like if he doesnt than that means he doesnt care. Men only stay around when they want sex and are forcing it on you. Then they leave. Sex is how they show they care. If he doesnt want sex then there is no reason for him to care about me or to stay around. When I think about having sex with him its not about just making love to him and it being all nice and loving and sweet. Its abusive and very forceful. IF he doesnt do that he has no reason to care about me or stay around. And the only reason he doesnt want it is because I am not good enough to be with him. He thinks im ugly and stupid and worthless and he can say that its just because I am his patient but what if we would have met in a different situation where he wouldnt have been my psychiatrist. He would have wanted nothing to do with me then so it has to be because I am not good enough to be with him.
The other thing I want more than anything is for him to be my dad and he doesnt want to do that either. I have had 4 dads and 4 moms and I wasnt good enough for any of them to care about me or treat me right and that is why my psychiatrist doesnt want me as a kid. He couldnt stand me as a patient so there is no way he can stand me as one of his own kids that he would have to care about and talk to on the phone and spend time with.

So I guess I do feel like he is going to abandon me and what if he is just waiting until I really open up and sees how screwed up I really am and all the problems I really have then he is going to say he cant help me and leave me.

I just wish I could find a way to make these emotions and thoughts come out when I am around people, but I cant. When I am around people every thing goes blank, there is no thoughts except trying to figure out what the person wants me to say or do and there is no emotions except for fear. And its not just the bad emotions I dont feel when around people cause I dont feel happiness or excitment that I feel when I am by myself. Its like as soon as someone is around everything shuts down and then when they are gone all the feelings come gushing back and are stronger and too intense for me to deal with on my own. But no one believes me because they dont see it.

sometimes I do think that if there is no sex than I dont exist. I dont get attention if there is not sex involved. I even feel that way with my husband sometimes. He is constantly bugging at night for sex and if I dont give it to him than he rolls over and go to sleep and acts kind of mad about it. Sometimes I wish he could just hold me in his arms and talk to me and act like he wants to spend time together without sex involved. It seems like if we have time alone, even if we go out somewhere first, its mainly to go home afterwards and have sex.
Maybe if I was giving my psychiatrist sex he would give me more attention and not mind talking to me on the phone or receiving emails from him or even spending a few minutes over the 15 minutes when he doesnt have another patient coming for 15 minutes after me anyways cause all his appointments are blocked off for 30 minutes.

I do believe sex is how they show they care cause thats the only attention I got that acted like someone cares. In my head I know its not suppose to be that way but just knowing that does not change the way I feel. In fact, I feel bad because I was upset when my brothers stopped abusing me because that meant I stopped getting any attention at all from them. They went on to have girl friends and do things with their girl friends so they didnt need me anymore cause they found someone better and that meant no more attention. I have never told my therapists or psychiatrist that I felt this way because I felt like I was stupid for feeling this way. Seriously, who says they wanted the abuse to continue when they understand how screwed up it truly made them? I must be stupid!

I used to cut to make myself feel stuff but I have my year chip for not cutting and still fighting off the urges everyday. I guess to every guy I know that I have had sex with that I really didnt exist if we werent having sex. Guys I was sleeping with would make me have sex with them and their friends but when I wasnt having sex with them then most of the time they were with their other girl friends and I had to pretend like we didnt know each other or that we were just friends. There were times I have set outside the door while the guy I was just sleeping with fucked his girl to make her believe he was not cheating on her and then when she left he took me back in there, or having to sit in the back seat with my best friend whose dad I was sleeping with while we drove around town with the dad and one of the dads girlfriends and had to act like I was just one of the kids as long the other girls were around. But when they werent there it was all about sex.
So that is the only love I knew and it was worth it to go through that stuff to get some kind of love!

Its good to know that I am not the only one who goes blank around other people. I sometimes wish that I could switch to another personality and act like a little kid or something else that would let me show my emotions and cry in front of my P instead of always being numb. My parents never really cared about emotions either, at least for the most part. Sometimes they would try to get us to talk but I remember that every time they tried to have a serious conversation with them that I had my head completely covered with a blanket. I wish I could do that when talking to my P. That I could lay down on the couch and completely cover myself so that I cant see him and he cant see me. It would be a little easier to talk but the hard part would be when the session is over to get out from under that blanket and let him see me. But its like when I am not face to face with someone then I can feel things and be a completely different person, or when I am by myself. Sometimes it bugs me that everyone sees me as a different person. People at church know me as one way, people at celebrate recovery just think I am goofy and fun, my husband sees me one way, my family sees me a different way, and my neighbor even sees me different....but then you get more than one of those groups of people around me and I become very quiet and withdrawn and I shut down. And in all those situations there is no emotion. Even my husband was just talking about this morning that I really dont have emotions. He told me something that he read in the Bible that he was like "wow this is crazy could you imagine if this happened now" and my response was "yeah it happened a lot back then" with no emotion no expression on my face. That is how I am unless I am by myself.

And its good to know that someone believes me and that I am not the only one going through this because I was really starting to think that I am the only one who does this or gets this way and that there is something seriously wrong with me. Sometimes I wish I could just bring out different personalities or that they would come out on their own in front of my P so he would understand.

I just dont know how to fix or deal with any of it. Cause right now I am telling myself that I can do this and I can go in there and talk and even told my husband that the first thing I notice in my P's office is the picture he has hanging on his computer that the girl he hugged drew for him and it makes me think about that situation and how am I suppose to talk to him about my feelings while staring at that. The second thing I notice is up in the corner the other pictures she drew for him that some of them say "I love you" on them and I get she is mentally retarded and it is different but emotionally it doesnt matter. I want to tear them all up and show him how it really makes me feel and that I shouldnt be forced to look at them every session. But he has no idea that I notice them or even that I know who they are from. My husband says I need to tell him that and right now I think I can but when I get it there to the session in front of him all those thoughts and feelings are gone and I cant say anything.

And about the transference with the female T, I think it is happening a little bit because I had a hard time when she was on vacation for a few weeks and it made it where I couldnt see her for a month and then time I went to the appointment and she wasnt there cause she had a medical emergency I wanted to cry on the way home cause I was so upset. Its nothing sexual at all but I think there is that attachment there at least a little bit that will probably get stronger. I talked to her on the phone yesterday and it helped because I called her and left a message and within an hour she called me back and talked to me for about 15 minutes about everything going on and the way I was feeling and did not act like I was wasting her time or like she didnt want to be on the phone with me and even told me that if I needed to call her back to do that. I only have her work number so it would mean leaving a message until she was back to work on Monday but still, she said to call back if I needed to and before we got off the phone she asked if there was anything else we needed to discuss. We had been on the phone 15 minutes and she still wanted to make sure there was nothing else I needed to discuss and that I was okay before we ended the conversation and I knew from the way she was acting that if it took another 15 minutes it would have been okay and she wouldnt have gotten mad at me cause she was more concerned about me. I got off the phone and told my husband that I had the best therapist ever and that I love my therapist. But I meant that in a completely non sexual way at all cause I dont think about sex with her at all or even about spending time with her outside of therapy, but I know if she was taken away from me I would have a really really hard time.