I have a question and I want to ask for some feedback but it seems really quiet and spooky around here and I'm a little afraid to post. Is something going on ?
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I agree it seems quiet lately but I don't think anything is going on. What's your question. Maybe we can get some conversation started.
Jillann
Jillann
Lol Leise you are so cute.
I am here. I am listening.
I am here. I am listening.
Aww, hey thanks Jillann. And Turtle!!! I was just coming back on to reply to Jillann's thread and saw your replies.
Jillann, as far as your thread is concerned, it's very hard for me to tell people I go to a therapist. It's still not the type of thing people talk about much. I'm never really sure who is cool about it and who is not. I'm surprised that your therapist is pushing you to tell others that you are in therapy. That would be such a huge risk, IMO, and is also a very personal decision. And, all the phone call stuff. IDK, it sounds a bit off. It sounds like she's trying to be supportive and help protect you BUT ... IDK.
That said, my question is related to TAS's "I don't understand" thread. I am thinking about a situation in which someone wants something from someone and asks for it, something that is a valid human need but they might be asking something from someone who might then feel obligated to give and then will withdraw - making it even more unlikely that the first person will get that need met. And then set up that dynamic of pursuer and the pursued.
It made me think about how I have often chased after inaccessible people. But that I've learned through therapy that my needs are valid and very human and very vital to my existence. I DO want and need reliable people in my life. I DO want and need people who don't back away when I need to, say, feel close or whatever. It may be that Betty, for instance, can't meet my reliability needs but that doesn't mean they aren't valid or they can't be met by someone else.
I was thinking that since a lot of people here have avoidant attachment styles(myself included although I swing back and forth between two poles), perhaps we are less likely to meet reliable people here who are not afraid of intimacy. It doesn't mean, though, that those needs aren't valid and necessary and vital to our existence.
I remember telling my T at one point that I couldn't give anything in a relationship. He started to say, well, Liese, that's real life. You give and you get in relationships. You can't be in mature, adult relationship and only receive. Of course, there are going to be expectations that certain needs are going to get met. Thankfully, he realized pretty quickly that I honestly wasn't capable of being in a giving type of relationship unfortunately.
So, the upshot is, I struggle with then when do you say something to someone when they aren't meeting our needs? Will it always inevitably lead them to withdraw or feel like they are walking on eggshells around us? For instance, sometimes I feel as though I spend a lot of time being supportive but it doesn't seem to me that it's appreciated. It's important to me to feel appreciated. BUT, maybe I'm giving the wrong kind of support? Maybe I'm not really clueing into what the person is really looking for or asking? Or maybe I'm right and they don't appreciate what I have to say. Do I not say anything? Do I withdraw because I don't feel like I'm getting what I want in the relationship? Do I say something and risk alienating the person? It's tricky and I don't know what the answer is.
Jillann, as far as your thread is concerned, it's very hard for me to tell people I go to a therapist. It's still not the type of thing people talk about much. I'm never really sure who is cool about it and who is not. I'm surprised that your therapist is pushing you to tell others that you are in therapy. That would be such a huge risk, IMO, and is also a very personal decision. And, all the phone call stuff. IDK, it sounds a bit off. It sounds like she's trying to be supportive and help protect you BUT ... IDK.
That said, my question is related to TAS's "I don't understand" thread. I am thinking about a situation in which someone wants something from someone and asks for it, something that is a valid human need but they might be asking something from someone who might then feel obligated to give and then will withdraw - making it even more unlikely that the first person will get that need met. And then set up that dynamic of pursuer and the pursued.
It made me think about how I have often chased after inaccessible people. But that I've learned through therapy that my needs are valid and very human and very vital to my existence. I DO want and need reliable people in my life. I DO want and need people who don't back away when I need to, say, feel close or whatever. It may be that Betty, for instance, can't meet my reliability needs but that doesn't mean they aren't valid or they can't be met by someone else.
I was thinking that since a lot of people here have avoidant attachment styles(myself included although I swing back and forth between two poles), perhaps we are less likely to meet reliable people here who are not afraid of intimacy. It doesn't mean, though, that those needs aren't valid and necessary and vital to our existence.
I remember telling my T at one point that I couldn't give anything in a relationship. He started to say, well, Liese, that's real life. You give and you get in relationships. You can't be in mature, adult relationship and only receive. Of course, there are going to be expectations that certain needs are going to get met. Thankfully, he realized pretty quickly that I honestly wasn't capable of being in a giving type of relationship unfortunately.
So, the upshot is, I struggle with then when do you say something to someone when they aren't meeting our needs? Will it always inevitably lead them to withdraw or feel like they are walking on eggshells around us? For instance, sometimes I feel as though I spend a lot of time being supportive but it doesn't seem to me that it's appreciated. It's important to me to feel appreciated. BUT, maybe I'm giving the wrong kind of support? Maybe I'm not really clueing into what the person is really looking for or asking? Or maybe I'm right and they don't appreciate what I have to say. Do I not say anything? Do I withdraw because I don't feel like I'm getting what I want in the relationship? Do I say something and risk alienating the person? It's tricky and I don't know what the answer is.
Hey guys,
You were just here.
Where did you go?
You were just here.
Where did you go?
H and I have a lot of what I've labeled "unrequited friendships" in our life. In fact, most of the friendships we have involve making repeated effort to connect with others, but not seeing much effort made in return. Like, if we just stopped trying, the relationship itself would disappear. Not that I want anyone to pursue me, really...but honestly, if I'm just chasing someone down all the time, that feels kind of pathetic and it's not something I'm interested in doing...forcing my existence (which I am already in constant shame about) onto others.
That said, when I know the person is a safe person from a long history of experiences together, I have been experimenting with saying something to them, yes. Mostly good friends from church who I've been in the band with. Telling someone how I don't feel considered or appreciated when I am simply expected to learn my guitar and vocal parts to new songs with only a day's notice before practice. Or telling someone else that when they completely ignored a couple of times I reached out struggling in a week, but immediately respond to other, more practical things, it makes me feel like the message is they're not really interested in the type of relationship (intimate, authentic, connected family of faith) they have said they are. Doing those things was terrifying. But, I survived them. The people reiterated their care for me. In the end, it wasn't about getting a response from them, but not doing the thing where I get hurt and protect others from my hurt. In the end, these are just busy people and for no reason related to me, they can't give me what I need.
So, I've kind of accepted what they can offer, and I do take that in. I can release the shame that's associated with the inaccurate belief about what they offer (or don't) being about me in some way. In exchange, I've examined my own boundaries (i.e. willingness to put myself out at the last minute to accommodate others' lack of organization) and take responsibility for not over-extending myself into such inequality. I let myself understand what part is mine and what part is theirs and make less of a habit for taking too much responsibility.
I still feel like an utter failure at relating and connecting, but at least I'm not as much of a worn-out utter failure. I was so accustomed to this way of relating (doing everything in a relationship in the hopes of being barely tolerated) that I never gave myself a chance at much more. Maybe it's impossible for me to find more, but it feels better to know what is "mine" and what is someone else's. It doesn't mean I can't extend myself with grace and kindness. Actually, I'm probably freer to do so, because it's not any sort of transaction. I was never one to keep track of a debt, but I was always in a state of owing or else trying not to owe. And I definitely hate anyone feeling like they owe me (probably a "don't be like mom" trigger on manipulation). So far, it's made me freer to give...hopefully, someday, it will make me freer to receive. Well, it has a little, with T at least.
I don't know if this even addresses your question, Liese. I don't have any wisdom on how to establish relationships that will help you to get your needs met. I do know that if someone's safe and invested in you, telling them how you're feeling will produce understanding and/or change over the long term. If not, it's probably better to find out, right? Easier said than done, though. Either way, confronting the situation is taking responsibility for your own feelings, reactions, roles (whether conscious or unconscious) in the relationship. I can't say I'm a genius at this yet, but I've learned to feel OK about the concept.
Does any of this make sense? The whole topic of relating and boundaries is wrapped up in shame for me, so I've gone a little intellectual here, or else I won't be able to stand myself. I may still delete...
That said, when I know the person is a safe person from a long history of experiences together, I have been experimenting with saying something to them, yes. Mostly good friends from church who I've been in the band with. Telling someone how I don't feel considered or appreciated when I am simply expected to learn my guitar and vocal parts to new songs with only a day's notice before practice. Or telling someone else that when they completely ignored a couple of times I reached out struggling in a week, but immediately respond to other, more practical things, it makes me feel like the message is they're not really interested in the type of relationship (intimate, authentic, connected family of faith) they have said they are. Doing those things was terrifying. But, I survived them. The people reiterated their care for me. In the end, it wasn't about getting a response from them, but not doing the thing where I get hurt and protect others from my hurt. In the end, these are just busy people and for no reason related to me, they can't give me what I need.
So, I've kind of accepted what they can offer, and I do take that in. I can release the shame that's associated with the inaccurate belief about what they offer (or don't) being about me in some way. In exchange, I've examined my own boundaries (i.e. willingness to put myself out at the last minute to accommodate others' lack of organization) and take responsibility for not over-extending myself into such inequality. I let myself understand what part is mine and what part is theirs and make less of a habit for taking too much responsibility.
I still feel like an utter failure at relating and connecting, but at least I'm not as much of a worn-out utter failure. I was so accustomed to this way of relating (doing everything in a relationship in the hopes of being barely tolerated) that I never gave myself a chance at much more. Maybe it's impossible for me to find more, but it feels better to know what is "mine" and what is someone else's. It doesn't mean I can't extend myself with grace and kindness. Actually, I'm probably freer to do so, because it's not any sort of transaction. I was never one to keep track of a debt, but I was always in a state of owing or else trying not to owe. And I definitely hate anyone feeling like they owe me (probably a "don't be like mom" trigger on manipulation). So far, it's made me freer to give...hopefully, someday, it will make me freer to receive. Well, it has a little, with T at least.
I don't know if this even addresses your question, Liese. I don't have any wisdom on how to establish relationships that will help you to get your needs met. I do know that if someone's safe and invested in you, telling them how you're feeling will produce understanding and/or change over the long term. If not, it's probably better to find out, right? Easier said than done, though. Either way, confronting the situation is taking responsibility for your own feelings, reactions, roles (whether conscious or unconscious) in the relationship. I can't say I'm a genius at this yet, but I've learned to feel OK about the concept.
Does any of this make sense? The whole topic of relating and boundaries is wrapped up in shame for me, so I've gone a little intellectual here, or else I won't be able to stand myself. I may still delete...
(((YAKU)))
Please don't delete. What you wrote was brilliant and, not only that, really helped me. Thank you for getting me. Like you, I do feel like if I didn't make the effort, the relationship would just disappear and so would I.
Lately I've been thinking that those feelings of abandonment when someone doesn't respond is just transference from the past. That if I had a healthier sense of self, when someone didn't respond the way I had hoped, I wouldn't feel abandoned. Does that make sense? Same situation but that I'd view it completely differently if I had a secure attachment style.
That the feelings of abandonment actually heighten the sense of disconnection that I feel.
Ugggghhhh. Yes, I like that idea of understanding what part is yours and what part is theirs and trying to take less responsibility for the outcome.
I may reply more later. I want to post this before you delete.
Please don't delete. What you wrote was brilliant and, not only that, really helped me. Thank you for getting me. Like you, I do feel like if I didn't make the effort, the relationship would just disappear and so would I.
Lately I've been thinking that those feelings of abandonment when someone doesn't respond is just transference from the past. That if I had a healthier sense of self, when someone didn't respond the way I had hoped, I wouldn't feel abandoned. Does that make sense? Same situation but that I'd view it completely differently if I had a secure attachment style.
That the feelings of abandonment actually heighten the sense of disconnection that I feel.
Ugggghhhh. Yes, I like that idea of understanding what part is yours and what part is theirs and trying to take less responsibility for the outcome.
I may reply more later. I want to post this before you delete.
(((YAKU)))
Told you I'd be back.
This reminded me of how many times I've told T that I've "forced" him to like me. He continues to insist that he doesn't feel forced. Like you, I constantly have SO MUCH shame because I think I've forced people into behaving a certain way towards me, guilted them into it somehow. That's where the "saying something" gets tricky.
But, lately, a new idea came to me. What if the feelings of "forcing" people to like me were relics of the past. And what if, T really does just like me and doesn't feel forced to like me? What if T enjoys our sessions?
Then our time together would just be spent connecting and I wouldn't feel all that backlash that I usually feel that I've forced him somehow to like me somehow obliterating any genuine connection we might have actually had?
And then maybe I wouldn't be in constant pursuit of trying to connect, if I actually felt like I was worth connecting to?
Told you I'd be back.
quote:forcing my existence (which I am already in constant shame about) onto others.
This reminded me of how many times I've told T that I've "forced" him to like me. He continues to insist that he doesn't feel forced. Like you, I constantly have SO MUCH shame because I think I've forced people into behaving a certain way towards me, guilted them into it somehow. That's where the "saying something" gets tricky.
But, lately, a new idea came to me. What if the feelings of "forcing" people to like me were relics of the past. And what if, T really does just like me and doesn't feel forced to like me? What if T enjoys our sessions?
Then our time together would just be spent connecting and I wouldn't feel all that backlash that I usually feel that I've forced him somehow to like me somehow obliterating any genuine connection we might have actually had?
And then maybe I wouldn't be in constant pursuit of trying to connect, if I actually felt like I was worth connecting to?
Those are some great what-ifs. I was talking to T last night, telling him what words I could deal with him using about me and his connection with me: horrible, awful, terrifying, etc. And he suggested some of his own: wonderful, like, enjoy, etc. I told him that it was so incongruent...so impossible to believe. And he said, when you are truly loved by someone, even if there is deep fear and shame there that makes you doubt, deep down somewhere, it is known. It is recognized as different than someone acting like they care but not truly caring about you. Having a kid who has pinpoint radar to tell if my attention and focus is there or not, I know this is true. She can tell whether someone genuinely cares and enjoys her.
And, as horrible as it is to have to do the eye contact thing with my T...and as much as it confuses me by conflicting with messages I internalized to survive...I'm 100% sure that what is there inside my T is love, enjoyment, adoration of a kind...not exactly what I was supposed to have as a kid...but a deep connection. I feel horribly ashamed to have "made him" feel and act that way...because it still feels like something that's not supposed to be there. But...I know for sure it is there. I'm sure your T cares deeply for you too!
And, as horrible as it is to have to do the eye contact thing with my T...and as much as it confuses me by conflicting with messages I internalized to survive...I'm 100% sure that what is there inside my T is love, enjoyment, adoration of a kind...not exactly what I was supposed to have as a kid...but a deep connection. I feel horribly ashamed to have "made him" feel and act that way...because it still feels like something that's not supposed to be there. But...I know for sure it is there. I'm sure your T cares deeply for you too!
((((YAKU))))
I understand only too well.
quote:I feel horribly ashamed to have "made him" feel and act that way...because it still feels like something that's not supposed to be there.
I understand only too well.
I don't know of anything going on - we did recently have a full/harvest type of moon recently (at least where I live) so maybe that's stirring things.
I often have felt like I've forced (or paid..) my T to care. The kicker is... when I talk about I think they don't care, or the words are hard to take in, or the care is hard to take in, etc... that's when I feel like I'm *actually* forcing them. Or I just like the sound of them explaining, or something. I know that isn't true... but I've found asking less and experiencing more, especially with some touch stuff, has helped a lot. I can FEEL care that way, mentally I can't rationalize it and pretending or convincing myself it's not there protects me from dealing with... okay... so if they DO like me WHAT NOW!? Which is way worse than not being liked. It's tough I'm with you guys in the pain there.
I talked to my T this morning about a relationship I have where I constantly feel pursued and invaded. I've let this person know several times that I'm not a need meeting machine (not in those words). The issue is whenever I can't meet a need (and the need is to speak to me every day, and occupy as much time in a week together as possible that is not being occupied by other friends) I have to deal with a storm of emotional baggage, guilt tripping, whining, roping etc - it's my Mom all over again. It becomes more worth it to just put in 'my time' and punch my card for the week than deal with the fallout. I feel like if I am too stern I'll lose the relationship which is not what I want at all... I just can't listen to this person talk to themselves for 3hrs a week (I don't exist around this person, they just talk and talk and talk and talk about ANYTHING I could be telling this person my grandma died and I'd be interrupted when we passed a Baskin Robins so I can hear a Baskin Robins story for the 800th time).
My T is helping me with owning my boundaries AND letting them own their emotions without my feeling this codependent thing where I can't deal with them not feeling okay.
Sorry... a bit of venting on my part there. LOL.
As far as if you should say anything? My T would say yes, and provide you with several uncomfortable suggestions. I say? Yes... but...... it's hard so I wouldn't judge you for not doing it. I feel bad because I almost never pursue, it's not because I don't have needs... it's just because I've grown totally okay with not having them met (or am clueless to what I'd even NEED met or why). I dunno... I know I'm not meeting my friend's needs because they are just too overwhelming for me and as my T said there is a LOT of neediness there. When I'm asked to meet them? I have to be realistic. Aside from that friendship... in other relationships where I've been asked for more support I do try to give it. I offer support a lot. It is just still... something I am fixing in my relationships because I'm super good at giving whatever if I want to, but I don't want anything. I can't be in friendships where I'm always hearing about struggle all the time right now, for example. So if someone needed me as a dumping ground for their hurt I would suck at that right now because I don't even have a big enough dump for my own.
Sigh.... I say go with the risk, it can turn out well.
Anyway, sorry... i'm typing to avoid eating...
I often have felt like I've forced (or paid..) my T to care. The kicker is... when I talk about I think they don't care, or the words are hard to take in, or the care is hard to take in, etc... that's when I feel like I'm *actually* forcing them. Or I just like the sound of them explaining, or something. I know that isn't true... but I've found asking less and experiencing more, especially with some touch stuff, has helped a lot. I can FEEL care that way, mentally I can't rationalize it and pretending or convincing myself it's not there protects me from dealing with... okay... so if they DO like me WHAT NOW!? Which is way worse than not being liked. It's tough
I'm with you guys in the pain there.I talked to my T this morning about a relationship I have where I constantly feel pursued and invaded. I've let this person know several times that I'm not a need meeting machine (not in those words). The issue is whenever I can't meet a need (and the need is to speak to me every day, and occupy as much time in a week together as possible that is not being occupied by other friends) I have to deal with a storm of emotional baggage, guilt tripping, whining, roping etc - it's my Mom all over again. It becomes more worth it to just put in 'my time' and punch my card for the week than deal with the fallout. I feel like if I am too stern I'll lose the relationship which is not what I want at all... I just can't listen to this person talk to themselves for 3hrs a week (I don't exist around this person, they just talk and talk and talk and talk about ANYTHING I could be telling this person my grandma died and I'd be interrupted when we passed a Baskin Robins so I can hear a Baskin Robins story for the 800th time).
My T is helping me with owning my boundaries AND letting them own their emotions without my feeling this codependent thing where I can't deal with them not feeling okay.
Sorry... a bit of venting on my part there. LOL.
As far as if you should say anything? My T would say yes, and provide you with several uncomfortable suggestions. I say? Yes... but...... it's hard so I wouldn't judge you for not doing it. I feel bad because I almost never pursue, it's not because I don't have needs... it's just because I've grown totally okay with not having them met (or am clueless to what I'd even NEED met or why). I dunno...
I know I'm not meeting my friend's needs because they are just too overwhelming for me and as my T said there is a LOT of neediness there. When I'm asked to meet them? I have to be realistic. Aside from that friendship... in other relationships where I've been asked for more support I do try to give it. I offer support a lot. It is just still... something I am fixing in my relationships because I'm super good at giving whatever if I want to, but I don't want anything. I can't be in friendships where I'm always hearing about struggle all the time right now, for example. So if someone needed me as a dumping ground for their hurt I would suck at that right now because I don't even have a big enough dump for my own.Sigh.... I say go with the risk, it can turn out well.
Anyway, sorry... i'm typing to avoid eating...
((((CAT))))
That friendship sounds awful. Why wouldn't you want to risk losing it? It sounds very draining. Yes even I would withdraw from something like that.
That friendship sounds awful. Why wouldn't you want to risk losing it? It sounds very draining. Yes even I would withdraw from something like that.
Please don't delete any of this thread. I just came from an incredibly difficult session which ended in a terrible place. I don't ever want to go back to see my T again. What you all said here seems really important but I'm so overwhelmed I can't think. I want to come back and read it when I can understand it.
(((cogs)))
(((Cat))) That relationship pretty much summarizes how my entire family, but especially one older sister, relates to me. The way she feels toward me is almost like I'm her attachment figure and it's hard for me to sort out. Those boundaries can be so important, but it's so hard to let go of the care-taking role. I can really relate to the not being so good at asking for needs to be met or even knowing what they are. I've been practicing it and...it pretty much always leads to suckage.
(((Cogs))) I'm sorry your session was so hard.
(((Cogs))) I'm sorry your session was so hard.
(((cogs))) ((cd)) ((liese)) ((yaku))
Liese - It is so draining, I feel awful though whenever I complain to my T. My friend is so nice but even reading an "I miss you" text (after not seeing them in person for a WEEK) triggers me. He's really nice, we do art type things together sometimes and I value that so much in our friendship. I wish we could get together for lunch or something once a month and maybe hang out for a day on the weekend in there. That's the sort of friend I want (he's not in any way romantically interested in me FWIW)... but he can't do in between. He does this with all his friends. He's been invited to two other art groups/collaboratives I've been at (but I've been invited and they say to me oh you can see if he wants to come, etc)... well, I just won't tell him. Isn't that terrible? I just want to get away from him. Whenever I've brought him around a group he just does the same non-stop talking (not just about himself I mean ANYTHING... anything you say he has a 20 minute story, or will give you the entire history of something... he's very socially awkward unfortunately) and I don't want to be "that person" who invited "that guy". He'd just be around me more if I brought him. And you might think to yourself more friends = less responsibility for me. NO. He has friends and if he could he would fill up every waking moment with someone to talk to. He's told me that... that once he gets to know someone he could spend infinity plus one time with them. Man... my bad colors are showing LOL but... I do want the relationship I just want less... I'm working on it.... I think most people would withdrawal, and have, which could be why his abandonment issues are quite high. I don't feel needed, I feel required.
((yaku)) sorry your family is like that some in mine are too... a lot of my triggers right now are Mom issues. Being a care-taker is a lot of work. I love to take care of people and dote on them and fuss... but you can feel the different types of relationships. There are "energy vampires" as my T would say (some can't help it) and well... all kinds of people in the world. I actually get really bad feelings about myself and want to punish myself a lot when I feel I'm being drained... I don't even know if that makes sense. I feel trapped and I react in an extreme way w/ myself. Bleh.
Liese - It is so draining, I feel awful though whenever I complain to my T. My friend is so nice but even reading an "I miss you" text (after not seeing them in person for a WEEK) triggers me. He's really nice, we do art type things together sometimes and I value that so much in our friendship. I wish we could get together for lunch or something once a month and maybe hang out for a day on the weekend in there. That's the sort of friend I want (he's not in any way romantically interested in me FWIW)... but he can't do in between. He does this with all his friends. He's been invited to two other art groups/collaboratives I've been at (but I've been invited and they say to me oh you can see if he wants to come, etc)... well, I just won't tell him. Isn't that terrible? I just want to get away from him. Whenever I've brought him around a group he just does the same non-stop talking (not just about himself I mean ANYTHING... anything you say he has a 20 minute story, or will give you the entire history of something... he's very socially awkward unfortunately) and I don't want to be "that person" who invited "that guy". He'd just be around me more if I brought him. And you might think to yourself more friends = less responsibility for me. NO. He has friends and if he could he would fill up every waking moment with someone to talk to. He's told me that... that once he gets to know someone he could spend infinity plus one time with them. Man... my bad colors are showing LOL but... I do want the relationship I just want less... I'm working on it.... I think most people would withdrawal, and have, which could be why his abandonment issues are quite high. I don't feel needed, I feel required.
((yaku)) sorry your family is like that
some in mine are too... a lot of my triggers right now are Mom issues. Being a care-taker is a lot of work. I love to take care of people and dote on them and fuss... but you can feel the different types of relationships. There are "energy vampires" as my T would say (some can't help it) and well... all kinds of people in the world. I actually get really bad feelings about myself and want to punish myself a lot when I feel I'm being drained... I don't even know if that makes sense. I feel trapped and I react in an extreme way w/ myself. Bleh.
Yaku have you ever considered writing a book? You are an amazing writer. You write with such clarity and what you say really draws me in.
Hi Liese
This is a question I struggle with too.
In my last relationship, quite often my ex gf would put negative labels on things I did to get my needs met. So me telling her about a bad day at work - my need to vent, or have some reassurance = dumping my anger on her. My need to watch sport = a personal affront to her need not to watch sport. My need to listen to music in the car = me not being fun and entertaining her with my conversation. She would compare me unfavourably with her cousin who regaled her with funny stories on car trips whereas I concentrate on driving.
It was a really tough relationship in many ways and I tried hard but felt like I was nearly always conpromising and if I raised it, she'd get angry with me.
It was my sister who pointed out that she was being very controlling, telling me what was and was not acceptable the majority of the time.
The relationship really confused me and I still struggle with what's acceptable in a relationship and how to deal with conflicts in needs. Everything she asked of me was to meet a need of her own and although I felt stifled, I understood that it's what she needed so felt like I shouldn't say no even though I did, and then we'd argue. Thinking about it now, I guess she was being needy and didn't feel like I was meeting enough of her needs and then I'd feel guilty and then angry for feeling guilty about just doing what I needed.
In some relationships, it just works though and although the difficult ones probably teach us more, I think life is too short for those difficult relationships. Having said that, I've been single a long time but I hope my next relationship is easier.
I'm not sure if I've answered the question at all but it resonates strongly with me. Conflicts - in needs especially - and how to deal with them is an issue I struggle with.
This is a question I struggle with too.
In my last relationship, quite often my ex gf would put negative labels on things I did to get my needs met. So me telling her about a bad day at work - my need to vent, or have some reassurance = dumping my anger on her. My need to watch sport = a personal affront to her need not to watch sport. My need to listen to music in the car = me not being fun and entertaining her with my conversation. She would compare me unfavourably with her cousin who regaled her with funny stories on car trips whereas I concentrate on driving.
It was a really tough relationship in many ways and I tried hard but felt like I was nearly always conpromising and if I raised it, she'd get angry with me.
It was my sister who pointed out that she was being very controlling, telling me what was and was not acceptable the majority of the time.
The relationship really confused me and I still struggle with what's acceptable in a relationship and how to deal with conflicts in needs. Everything she asked of me was to meet a need of her own and although I felt stifled, I understood that it's what she needed so felt like I shouldn't say no even though I did, and then we'd argue. Thinking about it now, I guess she was being needy and didn't feel like I was meeting enough of her needs and then I'd feel guilty and then angry for feeling guilty about just doing what I needed.
In some relationships, it just works though and although the difficult ones probably teach us more, I think life is too short for those difficult relationships. Having said that, I've been single a long time but I hope my next relationship is easier.
I'm not sure if I've answered the question at all but it resonates strongly with me. Conflicts - in needs especially - and how to deal with them is an issue I struggle with.
(((COGS)))
(((CAT))))
It sounds really difficult. It sounds like there are some really great things about him but his unmet needs kind of take over his whole personality. Would he ever consider therapy? Is he open to it?
(((TYGR)))
Oh, that relationship sounded really difficult too. She sounded really difficult. She obviously had NO problem expressing her needs. See, and right there is when it gets out of control and feels controlling. She had security needs that sound too large for anyone to meet.
I hope you are right that we learn more from the difficult relationships. I just wish it was easier.
(((CAT))))
It sounds really difficult. It sounds like there are some really great things about him but his unmet needs kind of take over his whole personality. Would he ever consider therapy? Is he open to it?
(((TYGR)))
Oh, that relationship sounded really difficult too. She sounded really difficult. She obviously had NO problem expressing her needs. See, and right there is when it gets out of control and feels controlling. She had security needs that sound too large for anyone to meet.
I hope you are right that we learn more from the difficult relationships. I just wish it was easier.
Hey, so Jillann and Turtle, you guys both encouraged me to put my thread up and then you disappeared. I'm feeling quite abandoned here. What's up?
Liese,
I am so so sorry
About two weeks ago I had to start dealing with some legal issues around the original trauma that sent me into crisis. This has brought back my insomnia - I'm awake at 3:00am every night worrying about how I'm going to take care of mom. Well I sat down in the recliner and waited for your post and woke up drooling with my head bopped to the side and a stiff neck about midnight. I stumbled into bed so I could again wake up ruminating at 3:00 am! 
Forgive me for disappearing last night. Please.
I'm afraid I don't really have an answer to your question. I struggle with this too. I am a caretaker by nature. I give alot to a wide variety of people. In the past I had expectations that they would then meet some of my needs but that just opened me up for hurt when they didn't. And I have a real hard time believeing I should have to expressly state my needs. That is a problem that I'm sure T will bonk me on. I want people to see that I am overwhelmed and say hey, can I help you somehow? I know I always look for ways to take action to help. I get so many people that hear about the issues I'm going through and say how sorry they are. I want to scream at them then DO something. But I would never be able to ask outright. A neighbor called last year and asked if I could drive her daughter home from school two days a week as I was getting my son anyway. I said sure and did that all year. At one point her husband saw me out walking in the neighborhood, he stopped and just said thank you so much for getting his daughter home. They so appreciated it. I burst into tears right there. Someone said thank you to me!
I think you have to weigh the significance of the relationship to you. Then decide if you can risk losing it. I am the leader for my daughters Girl Scout troop. I need the other parents to step up and help me now that I have responsibility for mom. I can't keep doing everything all by myself anymore. There just aren't enough hours in the day. I have sent out email asking for someone to please help but no one will respond. If I don't do it the Girls are the ones that get hurt and miss out. I'm going to have to get specific with each parent and tell them exactly what has to happen to keep this thing afloat. Don't feel like I should have to.
See I'm just as confused as you are.
Sorry about abandoning you last night.
Jillann
I am so so sorry
Forgive me for disappearing last night. Please.I'm afraid I don't really have an answer to your question. I struggle with this too. I am a caretaker by nature. I give alot to a wide variety of people. In the past I had expectations that they would then meet some of my needs but that just opened me up for hurt when they didn't. And I have a real hard time believeing I should have to expressly state my needs. That is a problem that I'm sure T will bonk me on. I want people to see that I am overwhelmed and say hey, can I help you somehow? I know I always look for ways to take action to help. I get so many people that hear about the issues I'm going through and say how sorry they are. I want to scream at them then DO something. But I would never be able to ask outright. A neighbor called last year and asked if I could drive her daughter home from school two days a week as I was getting my son anyway. I said sure and did that all year. At one point her husband saw me out walking in the neighborhood, he stopped and just said thank you so much for getting his daughter home. They so appreciated it. I burst into tears right there. Someone said thank you to me!
I think you have to weigh the significance of the relationship to you. Then decide if you can risk losing it. I am the leader for my daughters Girl Scout troop. I need the other parents to step up and help me now that I have responsibility for mom. I can't keep doing everything all by myself anymore. There just aren't enough hours in the day. I have sent out email asking for someone to please help but no one will respond. If I don't do it the Girls are the ones that get hurt and miss out. I'm going to have to get specific with each parent and tell them exactly what has to happen to keep this thing afloat. Don't feel like I should have to.
See I'm just as confused as you are.
Sorry about abandoning you last night.
Jillann
(((JILLANN)))
Thank you for the lovely reply and thanks for replying. I got hit by a shame storm after I posted that what I wrote must have been so disgusting and hideous and, me by default.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Life doesn't get any easier, does it?
I think you are right about weighing the significance of the relationship. I've done the girl scout leader thing and it's very difficult to get parents involved. I think that's a great idea to give them something specific to do to help keep it afloat. You shouldn't have to but unfortunately, it's the way it is. I asked this one Mom to do something once and her reply was, "Can you ask someone who doesn't work?" I couldn't hold my tongue and replied, "I don't like to place on value on anyone's time."
Thanks for coming back here. I've been really struggling lately and can't seem to find my balance.
Thank you for the lovely reply and thanks for replying. I got hit by a shame storm after I posted that what I wrote must have been so disgusting and hideous and, me by default.
I'm so sorry for what you are going through. Life doesn't get any easier, does it?
I think you are right about weighing the significance of the relationship. I've done the girl scout leader thing and it's very difficult to get parents involved. I think that's a great idea to give them something specific to do to help keep it afloat. You shouldn't have to but unfortunately, it's the way it is. I asked this one Mom to do something once and her reply was, "Can you ask someone who doesn't work?" I couldn't hold my tongue and replied, "I don't like to place on value on anyone's time."
Thanks for coming back here. I've been really struggling lately and can't seem to find my balance.
Liese - is my friend the kind of friend you are talking about or something else? I can't imagine him in therapy. As you know, it can take a lot if lookin at yourself (at least my Ts are relentless about what is mine to own - mostly because I freak out about that 24/7) and it would take a while. He has no trauma in his background (including physical, emotional, neglect, etc) he would have shared by now and when I occasionally talk about something he will interrupt me midway to talk excessively about how his life was so different). Obviously there are issues from somewhere (we all have them regardless of trauma backgrounds or not) but the sensitivity level would require very slow, landmine free therapy IMHO. I'm not sure if that would be tolerable but who am I to judge, ya know? He turns almost everything about him (we all do sometimes but if I'm having a bad day or I'm tired I have to take care I'd him because he's upset about if it cancels anything, if I won't let him help, if he can't help, why its so hard for him if I'm sick... It's work rather than helpful he's just so sweet and it's hard not to feel like a stone cold heartless person being frustrated). Anyway!
I don't HAVE to do anything but acknowledge feelings rather than "fix" them. So that is what I'm working with in therapy. I do that with a lot if my relationships.
he's just so sweet and it's hard not to feel like a stone cold heartless person being frustrated). Anyway!I don't HAVE to do anything but acknowledge feelings rather than "fix" them. So that is what I'm working with in therapy. I do that with a lot if my relationships.
I'm here!
(((CAT)))
I'm learning that too. That is awesome. It sounds like a very difficult situation with no easy answer.
(((A))))
Thank you. Its nice to know that I am cared about. That made my day. Back atchya!
quote:I don't HAVE to do anything but acknowledge feelings
I'm learning that too. That is awesome. It sounds like a very difficult situation with no easy answer.
(((A))))
Thank you. Its nice to know that I am cared about. That made my day. Back atchya!
For everyone that is ok with it.