((((JM)))))

No insights from me but I did want to tell you that you have been showing up for me on this forum. I appreciate your comments.

I know something about that feeling of not being able to express yourself. I stuggle in therapy while in my regular life people think I'm quick witted and articulate.

I do wonder if you are adding to your pain by blaming yourself for what you see as your failure to communicate. I don't mean to offend you in any way but I hope that you can take some gentle care with yourself.

Yah, is way to edit. Click on the little folder icon below the post, lower right-hand corner. Right after you post, the editing is "free": after a certain time passes, the post gets marked with "Edited by Wynne (etc) on Nov 25 10:44am" or whatever.

Thank you for the hug Incognito and I appreciate your reassurance. This is painfully difficult for me. I want to relate so much more but i am have such a hard time expressing and typing. I guess it has a lot to do with the age I am dealing with.

No offense taken. How could I possibly when someone is kind enough to reach out and help by being so nice ans supportive? -thank you, it is good advice.

To edit...there is a folder/eraser icon to the bottom right of your message, just click on that and the window will pop back up. I use it all the time.

Just Me,
You are not being inarticulate at all although I understand you feel that way. And please don't worry about contributing to the boards because one, you always do and provide an incredible amount of insight and two, because its important to take care of yourself. We all go through times when we feel like its more difficult to post. Ferris wheel! It's a ferris wheel!

This sounds like you're experiencing a lot of feelings from when you were really small and that the stress level is REALLY high. I suspect that you're so activated that your limbic system is flooding your brain with hormones that are physically interfering with your cognitive abilities. At least that's how my T explains it. I've gone in when I've been really scared or activated and told my T I feel like I've "lost" myself and he's told me that in some ways that's what's happening because the emotional stressors are interfering with my ability to think and that's how we experience ourselves. So try not to be too hard on yourself, this is a kind of psychic PMS. (I know, wasn't one $%^% kind enough? ).

Thank you for sharing your struggles with us.

AG

JM,

When I'm experiencing strong emotions (and I don't check out, as it were), I get pains in my body - that's generally the first knowledge I have that I'm feeling something. Extreme anger's a stitch in my side that grows into really strong back pain, anxiety's a stomach ache, deeply-buried tension's an eye-splitting headache, happiness is a toe-tapping restlessness in the legs (and I bounce, too). Took me about 3 months to figure out that these physical sensations that I've been feeling pretty much my whole life are indicators that I'm feeling something (when I have them, and you ask me what I'm feeling, I'd have said "nothing," or "tired", or "okay.")

I also only recently noticed that I've been "feeling like a kid" sometimes, when I'm thinking about certain topics. I've used some of the lists ya'll came up with in the "ridiculous feelings" post and slowly deciphered that it's feeling vulnerable and lost and hopeless and powerless and alone. But I started out by just saying, journaling, and thinking that I was feeling "like a kid" (*ahem* clearly like _I_ felt as a kid, by the way - quite telling, there. )

So I feel like I kinda get what it's like to not be able to talk about things - I spent a lot of time in my head feeling like a kid over the past 8 months or so. It hasn't been awesome, and I was giving Tfella fits when we first met because I couldn't even acknowledge that I _was_ feeling something, let alone work on identifying what it was.

I don't know if that's what it's like for you, but that's where I've been lately. And I _have_ found all your posts here really really helpful - they're made doubly so knowing that it's been like this for you lately.

I appreciate all your understanding but it is so frustrating not to be able to communicate! I want to scream it out but I don't know what words to use!!! Part of me wants to bang my fists on my desk or take a baseball bat to something solid, but what good will that do? I don't like this angry/desperate person.

Sorry, it has nothing to do with any of you. It is old, very old. I will see my T tomorrw and that cannot come soon enough. But I will probably just sit there like a blubbering idiot spinning my wheels and not resolving anything.

quote:

Extreme anger's a stitch in my side that grows into really strong back pain, anxiety's a stomach ache, deeply-buried tension's an eye-splitting headache, happiness is a toe-tapping restlessness in the legs (and I bounce, too).

Here 's the deal. I get the physical symptoms too but I can never address them this directly to know that this particular physical sensation means precisely this emotion. I am not that attuned to my body even after 2 1/2 yrs of therapy and i wish I was. I wish I could do that but I can't. Where the heck can I find a baseball bat?

Thank you though. I am really needing this dialogue. I do get the anxiety = stomach ache/nausea. That is _one_ I can identify and is almost always present. There are times that my T has offered me her waste basket because I was feeling so sick to my stomach.

((((((((((((JM)))))))))))))))

I'm so exhausted and I just want to cry, but what do I cry for? I can't even do that! I start to then I suddenly stop.
(rests head on desk) Someone turn out the lights.

BTW Wynne, all those phyiscal symptoms and emotions you described really resonated with me. I get all of them, I've just never been able to connect the dots that precisely.

*hands JM a baseball bat* *gestures at nearby tree and foliage*

Might help! I usually just have to bike up really, really steep hills for a long time.

I'm sorry you're feeling like you're not liking who you are feeling like right now. *thinks about that sentence again*

Hi JM...I can sort of relate to how you are feeling. If you are processing a lot of emotional stuff then it seems that your system is probably just on overload. I know when this happens to me it just kills my creativity. I write fiction (nothing published...yet) and it has been really hard to be creative while I'm in therapy. There is only so much energy left after caring for family, the house and working full time. Therapy can be emotionally exhausting which then can be physically exhausting.

I can only say to be kind to yourself and treat yourself well. Try to find things to relax you and distract you from therapy a bit. You may just need a break from all the heavy stuff that you have been dealing with.

I hope this all passes quickly for you.

TN

TN,
It is so nice to get all of this support. I guess I am being to hard on myself and I am truly frustrated. One of the things I use as an outlet for my emotions is writing and not being able to do that is excrutiating. I feel trapped. But it is nice to hear you relate that it effects your creativity too and that it will pass. So writing is something we share in common although I am not published yet either.

You're right about just needing to allow myself to relax and find a distraction from therapy for a bit. I guess I am feeling almost helpless in that. To be honest I don't want to do the things I usually do that I know work because I don't have the physical or emotional energy (running, walking my dog, working out, reading, and I won't mention writing because I am too blocked for that right now.) One day last week I just took a break from "everything" and I sat and drank tea while I listened to some soothing music and that felt wonderful. It was just what i needed to do. But sometimes I tend to prevent myself from caring for ME. I don't like being that way either. It is a helpless feeling, but I know I am no longer a helpless child, I am an empowered adult and I need to remember that.

I have an inspirational journal I keep seperate from my daily journal. This journal I keep sayings and quotes that I find and that are helpful in inspiring more positive emotions and motivations for the heart. I suppose I should look at that again.

Anyway, thanks. Everybody here is so great. I appreaciate all of the support and understanding. It really makes a difference.

Well this is T day and I have to get ready to go. Have I mentioned I drive 1 hour each way for this?

JM

Be sure to let us know how it goes!

And if you don't mind my asking, do you find the drive helps because you have time to prepare and time to decompress? Or is it difficult having to travel so far when you're agitated? (I know my drives TO therapy can be pretty interesting some times (translate that to "white knuckle grip on steering wheel"))

My T schedules on the 1/2 hour and usually lets me in at 40 past. I usually try to arrive on the 1/2 hour so I can sit for a few minutes before I go in. I'm usually calmer and vaguely more coherent if I do that.

Hope it goes well!

((((((JM)))))))

Just wanted to send you a hug.

I am not wise in the world of therapy, but I do understand how draining it can be.

Take care of you.

Kat

quote:

To be honest I don't want to do the things I usually do that I know work because I don't have the physical or emotional energy (running, walking my dog, working out, reading, and I won't mention writing because I am too blocked for that right now.)

JM - This describes me when I am depressed. When I am not depressed I knit...a lot. I get a lot of pleasure from creating things and knitting is how I deal with the turmoil of my internal and sometimes external world. I told my T that if I ever seem to lose an interest in knitting or just creating things in general then it is time to get worried because that'll mean I am pretty depressed.

It's not that I am worried about you, I just hope that your session can bring you some relief.

My session Monday night was one of those intense OMG-I-can't-believe-I-am-actually-saying-this-out-loud sessions. It's funny because I kind of thought I would feel relieved from finally getting some stuff out but instead I haven't really felt anything. I think I am shock.

Not being able to process stuff is kind of scary cuz then you don't really know how it may come out cuz you know it will eventually, when you don't want it to. Hang in there JM. One day at a time or hour at a time if need be. This won't last. You will feel better.

I am so touched by the care and concern from all of you. It feels really nice. Thank you.

I am doing better so far today. It was a “processing session”, and while nothing really huge stood out it was pretty emotional again. I would start to feel the emotions well up and then they’d quickly fade away. That happened several times today. At one point my T asked why I was resisting in being able to say what I needed to say to my mother (you know when you get the urge to cry and tell someone how much they hurt you but since you were never allowed to it just gets stuck in your throat?) I instantly replied, “I probably got a spanking if I protested for my needs as a small child. It would be viewed as a temper tantrum and that was never allowed.” My T just looked at me and slowly nodded her head. So that is the kind of stuff I am processing lately. Very pre-lingual time of my life and even when I could verbalize if I protested, to my mom it mean that she was a bad mother and she couldn’t bear that sort of guilt so she dished it right back onto me instead. She had a sly way of doing that and I don’t think she was aware of the consequences and toll that it took on me.

I did get to a point today when I was talking about how I needed my mother to hold me and it became about wanting my T to hold me and really wishing that she could. It was a moment that I knew that as much as I didn’t want to say it I knew that I had to. So I forced the words out of my mouth and she totally accepted it and we discussed it comfortably. She told me to take a few minutes and imagine her holding me and what that would feel like and even though I do that all the time at home, I never do that in her presence so it was a _little_ awkward I guess. Even though she couldn’t physically hold me I did feel a sense that she was (symbolically) holding me at the end of that session. And then I cried as I was leaving.

There is something about boundaries that I am noticing too and I don’t know how well this is going to make sense because I am still having a hard time with comprehension and translation right now. I’ve never been a boundary tester. In fact, I stay so far away from boundaries I don’t even know where they are. So even though I have not pushed the boundaries my T is setting them for me now because they are necessary for me to know where my place is and that I _have_ a place and it is not supposed to be some chaotic (non-boundary) feeling like I am used to. So I am learning that boundaries are good not just for protection but they establish and ensure a sense of well being and belonging. It’s very interesting.

So once again, thank you all. I am still struggling with articulation and writing, though I am sure you’re not seeing it as much as I feel it. It just won’t flow.

So thanks again for all the thoughts and ((((hugs)))).

Oh and AG as for the drive; sometimes it helps me unwind after session, sometimes I have to sit in my car for several minutes and pull myself together before I can drive, sometimes I find myself so agitated that I take it out on other drivers, sometimes I just cry half way home, and sometimes I am just numb or completely wiped out by the time I get home. It varies. And for the drive _to_ therapy I don’t like it other than knowing where I am going.

quote:

Originally posted by River:
Not being able to process stuff is kind of scary cuz then you don't really know how it may come out cuz you know it will eventually, when you don't want it to.

Yeah, that scares the #$@! out of me to be honest. I so bad want it to come out in my T's presence because I feel safe with her, but I keep resisting for some reason and it is so frustrating because I've even hollered at myself at home not to long ago to get it out. "Just come out! I can deal with it I am not afraid of you!"

I hope this wasn't too long and that it makes more sense than I can gather.

quote:

I’ve never been a boundary tester. In fact, I stay so far away from boundaries I don’t even know where they are.

Yep, me too. The not knowing was totally getting in the way of me asking her for anything because I was so afraid of coming up against one without knowing it. I finally spent an entire session just going through them all (or the obvious ones at least) having my T clarify what hers are. It was interesting even though I knew most of her answers already. And even though she was a bit concerned that this would make me feel more restricted or put off in our relationship, I actually found it rather comforting and freeing. I guess that is why we are supposed to have consistent boundaries for our kids, so they can do their thing without always worrying about the landmines in the family field.

You guys have such an interesting discussions. I've had a lot of trouble describing boundaries in my writing...maybe some unworked material? So, JM, I know exactly what you mean by having a hard time putting words together. I'm glad to hear you're feeling a litle better.

I remember from a seminar with Allan Schore (a big heavy hitter in the attachment field), that the right and left hemispheres in the brain flips back and forth over time. The brain is more dominant in the right in the first two years and then it takes turns being dominant in one or the other hemisphere over our life time. As you might know, the right brain has few words that it recognizes and it's considered the more emotional half of the brain. So, just another piece of the puzzle when we're having a hard time with words.

I know I'm in a right brain place at this time cause I'm having such a hard time trying to say what I want to say without getting all muddled...

I don't think I've ever said this but I'm so happy that the forum is working out as it is with the amount of participation...and such depth to the topics. I hope therapists are visiting...I'm sure they would learn from your writings. It's making me very happy to know that it is working out just as I had hoped...a place for support and exploration. And, it's all to your credit. Thank-you everyone.

Shrinklady

P.S. Wynne, yeah after a certain period of time when you edit a post, it will say 'edited by such and such'. But I haven't figured out when that happens. But I remember I set the editing function to stay for several hours...for folks like me who think of things afterwards.

P.S.S. JM, in a worshop we did this exercise and it works pretty well for stomach and nausea. I wasn't feeling well at the time and it helped. You put a voice to the ache...sorta like what a kid does when they're sick...letting their voice just hang out in a non-descript place. It's something you might try with your therapist as it can be healing to be heard in this way. It's kinda fun too.

Shrinklady,
Thanks for the helpful information regarding the right brain being more dominant the first two years. That helps me to make sense and to accept what I am experiencing. I tend to be quite hard on myself through this.

I hate to ask you this, but could you explain this exercise to me a little more?

quote:

You put a voice to the ache...sorta like what a kid does when they're sick...letting their voice just hang out in a non-descript place. It's something you might try with your therapist as it can be healing to be heard in this way.

Are you talking cries and moans? I wonder if I will allow myself to do that. I am very timid about doing anything that makes me stand out. Once I was in such a dissociative and cold state that she told me to stand up and shake and move around and I just couldn't bring myself to do that in front of her. :/

JM,

quote:

she told me to stand up and shake and move around and I just couldn't bring myself to do that in front of her. :/

My T has tried to get me to do the same thing to ease my anxiety during sessions but there is no way. Doing this just makes me more anxious! Luckily she hasn't brought it up in a long time.

JM, yes, a long low groan is what is recommended...say, 5 - 10 seconds. I know it sounds funny but it softens the nervous system in a way that's hard to do otherwise. I think it's related to the same reason folks find chanting healing.

Of course, if it triggers the shame response (i.e & being seen) it might be hard to do it. In that case, you might ask your T if she'd be willing to do it with you. I do it with my clients. It's fun and seems to help. I think we go to a kid place and it's like our Mom's are there to soothe us.

You might want to try it on your own when you're alone for a quick fix or even with a friend...just to get the feel of it.

The idea comes from body psychotherapy ...attuning to one's body and knowing what it needs. Kinda like River knew jumping up wasn't gonna work for her.

Shrinklady

At the risk of sounding like a complete wack job with the rise and fall in the range of my emotions, this is what I would like to tell my therapist right now:

It hurts so much to love you like I do and you can’t love me back. It’s not fair that you can’t hold me when I need to be held. It’s not fair that I have to feel so lousy about something so good and so positive in my life. It’s not fair that I should fear losing you when you’ve promised you will never leave me and you’re the first person who has never lied to me and I still cannot believe it. I hate this! I hate this! I hate this!

I hate that I cannot be with you when I am going through this sort of misery. I need you right now, but it is after hours, it’s the weekend and phone calls just don’t fricken cut it. I am mad, I am angry, I am confused, I am sad, I am grieving, I am depressed, I am desperate, I am tired of feeling bad and I’ve had enough and I want to go home; whatever the hell that means.
GRRRRR!
*head explodes and launches into space*

quote:

yes, a long low groan is what is recommended...say, 5 - 10 seconds. I know it sounds funny but it softens the nervous system in a way that's hard to do otherwise. I think it's related to the same reason folks find chanting healing.

Sorry Shrinklady, I am sure this would help, but I'd rather just take a baseball bat to something inanimate and hard right now.

You know what really makes me mad? That this sort of crap happens BETWEEN sessions!!!

I can see my next session going something like this, "Yeah, I had a bit of a rough night Saturday. I think I was feeling a little bad about something. I can't remember what it was, I guess it's not that important..."

Hi JM... I'm sorry you are having such a terrible time. I understand. Your T is your "home" and that's where you want to be... with her. Despite the seriousness of your feelings, and I don't mean to belittle them at all, I had to smile at your last post about saying "yeah I had a bit of a rough night, Saturday". I have done the same thing myself. I can be going under with the weight of my grief and sadness and my yearning to be with my T and I will go in on Monday and say "well, I guess I was struggling a little over the weekend". I really want to say all the things you said. How it's so unfair that I love him and he can't love me back, that I cannot call him without a REALLY good reason, that I miss him terribly in between sessions, that I want to touch him...even a handshake to help me believe that he is really real. I want to talk to him like a regular person and ask him what his favorite color is, what his favorite food is, what's his favorite sport and what he thinks of the state of the world. I want to be able to put my head on his shoulder and just "be". I want him to be in my life forever...

I wonder what reaction we would get if we just went in one day and ranted and raged at the boundaries that feel sometimes like they are suffocating us. There are days I just want to pound the walls in frustration. It's just not fair that I will eventually lose the single most influential, life-changing, wonderful, intelligent, caring person in my life. It's just not fair. Even though he has told me it would be up to me when to leave therapy, just the thought of ever leaving him sends me into a terrifying tailspin.

And so I truly understand how you are feeling, but, unfortunately I don't have any answers or cures to help you with these feelings and emotions. I can only say that this is a safe place to vent those emotions and the people here will understand.

TN

quote:

I wonder what reaction we would get if we just went in one day and ranted and raged at the boundaries that feel sometimes like they are suffocating us. There are days I just want to pound the walls in frustration. It's just not fair that I will eventually lose the single most influential, life-changing, wonderful, intelligent, caring person in my life. It's just not fair. Even though he has told me it would be up to me when to leave therapy, just the thought of ever leaving him sends me into a terrifying tailspin.

I know I'll sound incredibly naive, but...couldn't you? Isn't this one of the very things we're 'sposed to tell 'em?

Hi JM

I agree totally with what you are saying and I hate it, hate hate. I am my best when I am with my T. I don't have any advice, just letting you know I understand.

True North, I would love to know more about my T, and it is truly unfair. I have the same reaction when I go in on Monday..Yeah had a minor set back but I am okay. Just with I could say the truth. "I thought of you all weekend and really wanted to call you and maybe go for lunch. I just really want to get to know you, maybe we can work something out." How nice would that be. Wonderful, but not likely.

It is nice to have a place to rant about this and not feel alone.

I do understand!

quote:

I know I'll sound incredibly naive, but...couldn't you? Isn't this one of the very things we're 'sposed to tell 'em?

Absolutely. It goes something like this. “I need to tell you...blah blah blah and blah blah, mumble jumble, gurgle, blah blah blah. By the way, where’d you get those shoes, I really like them.”

No worries Wynne I can go from nutso to sarcastic in only .02 seconds. I just couldn't help but to jump at the chance.

Thanks for listening to me rant (again) you guys. It's nice to know that I can be heard and understood. I think I really struck a nerve on this one. I hope it wasn't too much.

BTW:Hitting a bat against a pillow is highly over rated. Now my arm hurts. :/

quote:

Absolutely. It goes something like this. “I need to tell you...blah blah blah and blah blah, mumble jumble, gurgle, blah blah blah. By the way, where’d you get those shoes, I really like them.”

I lol'd - particularly the bit about the shoes.

Surely it goes something like this:

"Hey, I've tried to create a little mini-therapist in my head that follows me around and comments on my actions so that I'm not so lonely or lost when I'm not actually in your office. Now, mind you, I realize that I spent 1 hour (approx) in your office a week, and 168 hours (minus about 60 hours for sleep, so figure a bit more than a hundred conscious hours) hanging out with mini-therapist. But you'd be _amazed_ at the conversations we have! And...and... why are you looking at me like that? What's...why...is it time for me to go? But it's only 23 after... are....oh. Right. The crazy. Well then, I'll see you next...no? Oh, okay, are you going away? Then the week after will be...no? Oh. Okay. Well, when can I... no?"

and so on. exeunt omnes.

awesome discussion. helps to know i am not the only one who feels this way, too. i have mentioned it to him--sort of--not fuuly, though, and he doesn't talk about it much. so i don't go any farther cause i might make him uncomfortable. but isn't he supposed to know how to handle it? don't they train them what to say/do? aren't we supposed to be able to tell them ANYTHING?

AJB... not sure if your questions are rhetorical. As for the answers... no they do not train them much at all about erotic transference in school. My T has a Ph.D. and he told me that they barely touched on it in school/training. I knew so much more than he did about it. As for handling it? My T got really defensive and pulled away from me during that session where we came close to discussing it. I was rendered silent...as I usually am when I feel rejection and could not talk about it that session but I did confront him in the next session and we then talked about transference a bit and he admitted he had no experience with it and that I probably knew more about it than he did. So I kinda yelled at him that he's a T and he should be able to contain my feelings - whatever they are... even my undying love if that is what I confess to him. He admitted that I was right and he was caught totally off guard about it. And he admitted I was the first ET case he's had.

And so we have learned about this together. I gave him In Session and he has really been much better about my transference issues. I feel that our relationship has gone to a much deeper level and my fears of termination because of it have pretty much been dealt with. He has told me that he would always be there for me and that he will not terminate me. So all in all it has been a bit bumpy but has turned out well. We will probably talk about ET again throughout therapy because it's part of my feelings and emotions. None of this was easy to do and I am thankful that even though he was inexperienced in this that he was willing and able to confront it in a positive way and was willing to learn.

TN

quote:

Originally posted by Just Me:
You know what really makes me mad? That this sort of crap happens BETWEEN sessions!!!

I can see my next session going something like this, "Yeah, I had a bit of a rough night Saturday. I think I was feeling a little bad about something. I can't remember what it was, I guess it's not that important..."

With the weekend ending and sessions coming up for me, I keep remembering this line, JM - particularly with everyone writing letters to their Ts to explain what's been happening.

I mean, I _know_ that we do most of the work of therapy between sessions, and that it is in fact _work_. I guess I never realized it was quite so much work. I think I'm learning a lot about all the techniques ya'll are using to make the above response _not_ happen.

I'm not sure I have a point, other than to be impressed by ya'll's dedication to Making It Work.

Don't be too impressed. Sometimes it is dedication and sometimes it is pure desperation.

River, your honesty just floors me. LOL!

Wynne:
ROFL!I think you got it!

The whole "Mini T" in my head that follows me around so that I'm not so lonely or lost when I'm not in your office is quite accurate. Priceless!

AJB, Have you asked your T if he is uncomfortable talking about it or if it is just your perception? I know that it is usually my own discomfort that I am projecting onto my T, but it could certainly be that he is uncomfortable or even counter-transference in that he is reacting to your discomfort and feeling it himself. And if so there is nothing wrong with addressing that either way.

Well there's more!

I am feeling sad. I finally heard from my T this morning. Apparently she was out of town and I did not know that and she had already checked her messages Saturday before I left my vm, then she checked again this morning and that is when she called me back. So why am I sad? Because sometimes she can just be so “as a matter of fact” in her approach when I so bad want her to convey tenderness and warmth. I know she can, I’ve seen her do that even over the phone. But her lack of warmth lately spirals me into believing that she is just fed up with me and that she really doesn’t care about how I feel. I remember the 45 minute phone conversation we had a few weeks ago and through all that I could not perceive that she truly cares about me. I detect a lack of warmth somehow despite her actions. I mean am I projecting this? Could I be that blind? Or is she a bit on the frigid side with me and just going through the motions? Can you call someone who spent 45 minutes on the phone trying to convince you that they care for you frigid? What is the matter with me? Am I not making my needs clearly known? We did discuss her cool approach toward me on one other occasion and after a lengthy debate she did admit that she could be warmer in her approach and that she would try to do that. So I don’t know if it is just me being fearful and expecting to lose what I have with her or is there something she needs to work on? I want to work this out. She promises that we would always work out problems and even this morning she repeated that she will not leave me. But honestly it did not feel warm and sincere, it felt *sigh* frustrated and prompted.
Can someone help me understand this?