(((Kashley)))

I think it is understandable that you didn't reveal to your T what you have been doing because it was so hard for you to tell her last week. Even though she reacted in a way that was helpful it is still so hard to talk about. Do you think the intense feelings of shame are really about the activities themselves or is it that shame attached to something else? The reason I ask is that often (for me) the SH and drinking tends to come from the place of feeling such intense feelings and shame to begin with.

I haven't lied to my T directly when questioned about something, but I have chosen not to say something which I guess you could say is lying by omission. I'm sure your T would understand if you tell her later and explain that you just weren't ready to talk about it at the time that she asked.

I'm sorry things are so hard right now.

((((((Kashley))))))


I know, shame is such a horrible emotion. I am 99.99999999% percent sure that if you tell your T everything about lying to her, and the reasons why you did she will be only understanding and sympathetic.

I lied to my T recently, maybe 3 sessions ago. I didn’t realize it till I listened to my session. I started off the next session first apologizing for something I said, and second saying that I lied to him. And this wasn’t some little lie either- he asked if I had been, a word that starts with a r and then has an a and an p and ends with an e, before and I said no. He didn’t respond with anything except intently listening to what I was saying. I couldn’t possibly imagine him responding any other way.

STRM, that's a good question, and I don't know. To be honest, sometimes it feels like too much shame for these things, but then I just convince myself that, well, it's just that bad that I do them. I don't know.

Mac, I'm so sorry about what's been done to you. It seems to me that if you didn't even realize it was a lie until afterwards, that maybe (at least in that moment) you convinced yourself that it hadn't really happened. I'm so glad your T responded in the way you both expected and needed. Sometimes it feels like I'll drive myself crazy in that I know my T will be so understand and kind to me if I tell her, but the rest of me seems to be screaming that she'll be angry with me and wonder what kind of person I am that I could lie.

Thanks to you both.

i have lied. i told my t once that i LIE to keep a relationship from going south...hoping they would pick up on some troubles i had about them (i overheard a conversation t had with another t that seemed a bit belittling to the client they were talking about). but, t didn't pick up on my hint.

i don't lie much, sometimes just to save face. but, it happens to everyone, and that is just natural RESISTANCE speaking, so, give yourself a break...somewhere i read that when you don't feel the need to lie in therapy, then your resistances are all down, and the neurosis has abated.

so, it is normal, and, speaking up about it and WHY you felt the need is the grist for the mill that therapy works on.

so, it's ok, use it for insight!! jill

quote:

and he said, "Because you couldn't at the time."

And you know what? In that moment, there wasn't shame. Just growth.

Thanks BG, that feels really pertinent and helpful for me to read. I've often felt bad about denying to my T, things that she'd asked me about. At the time though I really didn't want to believe that they had happened, so it didn't seem like lying then, I kept myself going by being able to deny. But later when details all started to tumble out, I kept apologising to T for not having told her when she'd asked, but a bit like your T BG, she was so fine about it, said that it always had to come from me and be in my time. She also says that I can choose to tell her things or keep them to myself if that feels safer....that it will take just as long as it takes.....

starfish

Thank you all for your input. BG, thanks for sharing what your T said - he responded in such a compassionate way and it does seem very healing.

I'm really sorry...I wish I had more to say and that I could just be grateful for all of your support and then be "better" so that I could stop taking. I am having such a tough time right now and I'm not used to it, but I just wanted to at least drop a quick thank you.

Aw Kashley...I'm sure I've lied to my T many, many times, probably. I know of one time I actually did it knowingly, and I think there are probably lots of times I do it without even being fully aware of it at the time...I'm in therapy to work on stuff like this, and figure it all out, I suppose, that seems like a really importnat part of the whole thing. tTry, realize hat you are aware of it is a really good thing, a big huge step on the road to healing...even though, it feels so shameful and painful. I know that for me there is something about a lie that feels more shameful than anything else I could ever do, and admitting to it feels truly impossible! It's like I could do the worst thing you couldever think of, but then if I also lied about it, I would feel worse about the lie! In time you find the courage to be open with your T. Take your time, it is ok. The good thing about therapy, is that it is such a safe place to go through all of this. Um, how can I explain...it's like even lying can be part of the therapy, becoming aware, and it's ok because the lie *does not* hurt your therapist. So it's a good place to find out about and learning to deal with- with their help. Does this make any sense, idk. Do not worry about responding, being appreciative, or even getting better. You are a sweetheart, and you are doing everything appropriately on the forum even though it doesn't feel that way at times, I know that feeling. I feel like I take an outrageous amount from here, and from my T (emailing him) and it feels so wrong that I do that, and yet I see that others feel the same exact way, and that helps a bit.

Giant hugs, Kashley, I'm just so, so proud of you for telling your T what you have already, and it's not going to be easy to become an open book about this stuff overnight, so easy, go gently, you are doing a lot of very difficult work, and you will not be able to do this difficult work "perfectly" and that *really* is ok. Let me see if I can find an analogy that might help a bit. If you were looking after a two-year old, and the child didn't know how to walk very well yet, and kept falling over and getting himself hurt, wouldn't you just *know* that it's not all the child's fault, but that he must still, slowly learn to walk. And you would encourage him gently, and hold him when he was hurting, and then say "try again... this time I'll hold your hand." I think that is how your T feels about you with some of the behaviors that you are so ashamed of...and will feel the same way about your legitimate need and fear about opening up to her about it, as well. It takes time, and that is ok.

Hug, Kashley...be kind to you, if you can. You are a sweetheart.

Love,

BB

Thank you BB. I love your analogy - it made me tear up a bit.

I keep digging myself a bigger and bigger hole. I gave in to SH urges tonight, and I didn't call my T. We have a verbal contract that I'd call her if I felt I couldn't stop myself, and I didn't call. I'm afraid she'll be frustrated and angry with me that my fear of calling is so huge that I'd SH before I ever call her. It's late now, but I wonder if I should force myself to call her tomorrow and tell her. That feels like a mistake, but waiting until my session next Wednesday feels like a mistake, too. And then I'm going to have at least a 3 week break, it looks like. Ugh. I'm so confused with myself right now.

I can really relate to the fear of calling...so much so that I would almost do ANYTHING rather than ever call up my T, ever. Once an hour went past our session time and he never called (time change mixup) but would I call him up, even just to see what's up?? No, even though I was in agonies. But, it wouldn't be so hard if he gave me express instructions and made me agree to do so under certain conditions... sooo..yes, I do really believe that you should keep to the contract you made with your T, and call her, even though it is "too late." I really beleive that this is an important part of the lesson she wants you to learn about reaching out when you are in need, and that it is really, really ok and good to do that, Kashley. I strongly encourage you to call. I know it feels absoultely terrifying. But I think you can conquer that fear if you give it some thought. It's going to be ok. Really. Also I would seriously arrange for some telephone contact with her during that break... 3 weeks is really too long with what you are dealing with. ...ohhh, I know it is so hard to ask...I know.

Strengthening hugs ((((Kashley))))

BB

(((Kashley)))

no, lying doesn't make you a bad person... it might be a mistake, but it's ok. I've lied to my T... Sometimes it takes time and a lot of practice to admit giving in to bad coping actions close to the time of doing them - or at all.

I do think you should try to call your T, even though it is super scary. If you can't say everything, maybe just say you are struggling to keep the contract.

You could also try starting off by talking with your T about how you are scared to tell her of when you struggle or are not coping well. She might be able to help reassure you or figure out ways that are easier to connect with her.

I know it is super scary to tell your T you are struggling. I feel like I could just... ugh, anything other than tell my T. But everytime I do, it not only gets a little easier over the long run, but the deeper wounds in my heart begin to heal. It takes a lot of practice... and it's ok to back up, try again, and not be able to say everything - as long as you keep trying. Over time, you will experience it's ok to call your T, admit the struggles, and she will be able to help you more and more - the hardest thing is that yeah, it does take that inital risk and taking that step. I believe from what you have said of your T that it will turn out way better than you expect. You told her that you have struggled with all of this before, remember - she is likely expecting it to continue to be a struggle now and wants to help. You want help and healing too. It's a risk, but you have someone who is really amazing to face that risk with you, your T, and us too.

Most of all, you are not at all a bad person. You are an amazing person struggling and who is very brave and kind.

please stay safe (I know, way easier said than done - for me too.) You deserve kindness and support. Period. You don't need to earn it, and nothing you can do would change that. Just as you are, you deserve this help and support from your T.

many hugs,
~jane

Oh, you both are so kind - overwhelmingly so. After sitting and staring at my phone for an hour this afternoon, I called my T. I had to leave a message, and it's been a couple hours and I haven't heard anything. It's still early evening, but I'm having trouble staying awake because I'm so exhausted from finals. I'm worried to fall asleep in case she calls, but I'm so tired that I don't know if I can properly tell her anything going on. Maybe my tiredness is also why I'm not absolutely freaking out that she hasn't called back yet...

Good for you, KAshley! You did it! Now I hope you can rest, and if your T calls, i'm sure she will leave you a message and tell you to call her when you wake up. ((((Kashley))))

Good job! I don't know how you are managing all this and finals too, you are very strong. Rest now, big hugs, let us know how it turns out if she calls back.

BB

Guess she's not going to call back tonight. I called at 5:45 this evening (it's her cell)...was it too much to expect a call back tonight? She's told me over and over that it doesn't matter what time it is, although a lot of that was when I was really in a dark place a few months ago. This seems like the same old same old for me, and I'm regretting that I called.

Oh, sorry BB - we cross-posted. Thanks for the encouragement.

Well, it's hard because now you've done the really difficult thing that was sooo brave, and now plus, you also have to wait in agony for the result. Welcome to boundary-land, it sucks. She will call you back, if she gets your message, but you may have to wait a day or two unless you specified that it was an emergency. ((((Kashley)))) I'm sure your T will be very, very proud of you for calling once she gets your message- heck, I'm proud of you, and I'm not even your T..

BB

Thanks Mac. I've tried imagining that, but my imagination always inserts some idea of her being annoyed that I called when I did or that I just did something wrong. I'm going to keep trying though!

I appreciate the welcome, Beebs, but I'm not sure I like it here. I'm not sure if she'll call me back tomorrow or not. She's always been open to me calling on the weekend if I need to and asked me to call once over the weekend a while back just to check in (the call lasted about 20 seconds, literally). So I have a feeling she may call me back tomorrow, though I could be wrong. Thanks for being proud of me BB... and I know you'll deny it, but I feel like I've done absolutely nothing to deserve it.

Well, anything else I wanted to say has just run from my mind. So thanks to you both again (and everyone else who's given me support).

Kashley ~ I'm totally fried and brain-dead tonight, but read yur post and so much wanted to say that I'm so sorry she hasn't called back yet. I'm so sorry you are regretting calling. I really think you have done a very good thing by calling her. Like BB, I'm really proud of you for calling her too!

For me, I can be tempted to blame myself for anything and everything... I don't quite know what it is like for you, but just in case it is at all simillar, please, please, as much as you can, don't beat yourself up over calling her or think you have the wrong thing just because she hasn't called back yet. I have called my T before in a really tough spot and then freaked out because I felt so bad calling, and then my T didn't call back until the next day - and before she called back, I feared the worst. I figured she didn't call me back for all the worst reasons and so regretted calling. In the end, when my T called, it turned out her phone was borken and she had felt terrible for not getting the message and calling sooner.

From what your T has said, there is nothing that indicates you have done anything that she would have a problem with. Just the fact that she said to call no matter what the time is, shows me she understand you might really need help even in the middle of the night, and that this is not something she would judge or be upset with you about. You did the right thing. My thought is that it's likely that she hasn't called because of something like a broken cell phone... or who knows what... but not because you shouldn't have called.

And I hope she calls you really really soon!!!

Regardless of when she calls, just the act of you calling her, it's likely to help in the long run. Ok, this might sound totally off - but my T talks about how recent studies have shown that every time we do something we are afraid of, and we go through the emotional nightmare it can bring, and get through it, the next time we face something simillar, it's easier to deal with in a neurological way. Doing things that seem scary and hard is the fastest way for our brain to change over time and for those very things to become easier. It's not easy to do, and it takes a lot of time and practice, but even when we can't tell and feels like a nightmare, it's still a good step to reach out like this. (My T explained all of this to me in the context of me being terrified to ask my equine T for something. She was trying to tell me that if I do it even when it's scary, it's going to help me face other fears too.) I don't know if that helps at all to know - it didn't really help me in the moment, but later on.

I'm really just trying to say, you are doing all the right things - and you are doing it in the middle of really struggling and hurting.

I'm so hopeful she will as soon as she can - and so hoping that she calls you ASAP.

You did the right and good thing, even if it doesn't seem that way right now. hang in there,
~jane

opps, just cross posted - just ignore anything/everything that is totally off and no need to respond

Thank you Jane for posting even when you're dealing with so much right now. ((((Jane)))) I've read through your post once, but I just wanted to thank you for it before I take more time and read through it again. It doesn't matter that we cross-posted - you are really on track with everything, so thank you.

Take care, Jane.

My T called back this morning - she said that she didn't hear her phone, but didn't know why she hadn't heard it later in the evening. She apologized immediately and was really sweet about it all. I would share more, but I'm feeling a little...I don't know, just feeling like I've been sharing too much. But I just wanted to post with that quick update. Thanks to all who encouraged me to call and who hung with me while I waited for a call back.

kashley

well done for making that call ..and for waiting for the reply (even worse sometimes than making the call methinks). So I am glad she was sweet about it - she was probably really proud of you for reaching out for support. So see if you can rest a while now kashley, don't worry about posting, you're probably exhausted too,

starfish

Kashley,

I'm sorry I missed much of this. I am so glad that you were able to reach out to your T for help and that she called you back. Good for you! I hope that you are feeling better and getting some rest.

I'm so glad to hear she called back. What a relief. As far as sharing about it goes, you should only share as much as you want to, Kashley- do not worry about sharing more than makes you comfortable. But- just in case you are worried that you have been posting "too much about you" like we tend to do sometimes, and if that is the source of the worry, let me reassure you there. You never post too much, or take too much, and I'm sure everyone here would heartily agree with that. hugs,

BB

quote:

But- just in case you are worried that you have been posting "too much about you" like we tend to do sometimes, and if that is the source of the worry, let me reassure you there. You never post too much, or take too much, and I'm sure everyone here would heartily agree with that.

I totally agree with BB here! (((Kashley)))

Thanks BB, STRM. I have been worried about that, yes, but I've also just been in an odd place. I had a 90 minute session yesterday, and I felt pretty useless for most of it. Maybe I'm backing off from everything because of the holidays and the nearly 3 week break I have until my next session in January.

Sorry I'm not posting much...Just feeling a lot of confusion and self-hatred right now.

kashley

Those sessions before breaks are the hardest - I'm usually full of 'wishing I'd said this or brought up thats'....and then the long wait with it before you try to process anything again.

I'm really sad to hear of your self-hatred kashley. I wish I could say something that might convince you otherwise, but it's hard to change these deep seated feelings sometimes I know. Perhaps know instead that he opposite of hatred is love and maybe just accept a loving hug over the water from me (((kashley))

starfish

Thanks, Starfish. Just a bit confused right now is all.

Permafrost, don't think we've met yet, so welcome. No apologies necessary at all - feel free to post wherever and whenever you like. I understand the embarrassment, and I'm sorry you're stuck in that place. Just like the others have told me, I bet your T will respond with compassion and understanding whenever you do tell her, and she'll respect the reasons why you haven't told her yet. I didn't manage to own up to my T yesterday, partly because I was too scared, and also because of some other pressing stuff. With a big break now, I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to muster up the courage to tell her.