Dont have very much good advice but want you to know that you are not alone in it. I have done that more than once to my P over the 10 years that I have been seeing him and I still feel guilty that I never came out and told him the truth. I would give anything to have a completely honest relationship with him but he really has no reason to trust me cause I have lied over stupid stuff so I think if I told him the truth about the big stuff he would just kick me out of therapy.

I have actually been going back and forth with myself on this all day cause I am waiting on him to call and whether I just tell him that I have lied to him in the past over things that have happened to me and that I am sorry and see if we can start over cause I cant even remember exactly what I did lie to him but the ashamed and guilty feelings never left. Or do I stay feeling guilty cause Im too scared.

Even though I am scared and feel like he would be mad at me I keep getting this other feeling that he would be so proud of me for just coming out and telling the truth and stepping up and finally doing what I need to do and that might just give us the chance to start over like I have been wanting for a long time.

Honestly, if I were you I would just write out what you did and why or print out what you wrote and email it to him or call and read it to him or take it to the next session. Dont let it sit as a lie for a long time and become worse because eventually he will come back to that thing that happened and then more lies will have to be told to keep it covered up. Not worth it and at least for me made me feel even more guilty. I know its hard and probably even scary to think about doing but he will understand why you felt like you had to do it and he would be proud of you. And his trust in you probably wont be destroyed because that will show him that you might at some point screw up or tell a lie but that you will quickly be honest about it and make it right.

And if nothing else, just know you are not alone in doing this because I have been right there where you are and only wish I had made the decision to fix it right away.

Oh frog... I don't have much time to respond but I read your post and my heart goies out to you. I screw up in therapy, albiet in different ways, at times too. It's not right what you did, but don't beat yourself up too much.

I think you asked a very important question - why?

You idenitifie dthat you needed to feel comfort. Do you not feel... "worthy" of comfort just as you are? Just for who you are?

All kids need comfort. Reagrdless if they are abused or if they just trip and fall or just are having a rough day. (yeah, abuse and rough day are different...) but I just want to say... that I wonder if maybe you don't feel worth comfort or that you dn't deserve to have comfort nneed met unless you have something horrible happen to you.

All of us ne and deserve conmfort and help and support - period. trauma or not.

Don't hide... even if you are not ready to tell your T the truth...don't hide in shame. You mad ea mistake.

If you do talk to him about it, and I think you should eventually, try maybe explaining that you needed to feel comfort and, if it is applicable to you, you felt like you couldn't even ask ro it or deserve it (or how ever you woulday i) unless you had more reason than just for being you and for sturggling just as you are.

There may be other reasons you made it up or feel that way. I dunno. But people don't lie for no reason and whatever the resons was, think that is important.

Admitting you made up someting can be scary. Maybe you are afraid of losing your t's trust? If you t is a good as they sound they are - they will stay, they will work with you, and it will be ok.

What is most important in therapy is our feelings and our pain - and that is real. Even if you lied about events - your pain and heartache is real.

oh, I bet others will have much better feedback...

Hang in there,
jane

Pippi and Janedoe, thnaks both of you for your thoughts.

Pippi- thanks for sharing your experiences with this. I do also think that lies accours in therapy sometomes- sometimes not intended, sometimes in defence and sometimes (like for me) just because i felt i NEEDED to give my vague pain a form, a story. And i needed attention to my pain and yearned for his comfort. i am sorry you have had so meny painful strugglins during therapy- for not tellin about the lies. I hope the call with your T will be ok. If you manage to tell about the lies you are truly a hero. I am surtently not at this point. Allthough- we might have different experiences with this. Because this is the first time i have lied to my T. (at least that i am aware of) and when there had been things "unspoken" between us before, that has *felt* liked lies- i have usually gathered my courrage and brought it up with good resaults. This thing just feels so different. Like its not a bout the lie itself- but WHY i did it...Anyways: I hope you`re also do whats best for you and your relation with yout T- it sounds like you know what to do and whats the best thing to do, yet just scared..I totally get that. Good luck!


Janedoe- i think you picked up the important question- why did i do this..? Sometimes, no actaully ever sinse i started in therapy i have sometimes *wished* i remembered more of the bad memories of mine, so i at least could have the reliefe telling them, sharing them with T. (AND DESERVE HIS COMFORT!)But i dont. I dont remember all those things i know lies behind it all, and this very session, something triggered this very deeply, so in order to give my pain "a form" and a "shape" i made up a situation in order to express it... (The memory DID "fit" a similar experience though..ok, now i am just tryin to excuse myself..) and the most shameful part- or confuzing part- is that i kind of enjoyed his attention to it and his reaction/respond to it. I have missed that for so long. But it doestn jusstify it, i know. Janedoe- thanks for asking this also- "If i dont feel worthy enough"... hm.. no. i dont. i dont feel my (*happy*)lifestory (me) is worth my T`s sympathy and most of all- i dont deserve his comfort. You know- its always someone in worse condition whom actaully would deserve all that attention? i know thats sounds... wrong or, well- i think you get my point, its easy to think like that..

Thank you also so much for sayin my pain is real, even if i lied about the actual happening. That ment allot. I wish, i really wish my T would see it that way. I am going to explore this further with my T./but i wount tell him tomrrow..i think at least, but what do i know, my sessions always surprises me The things that came up last session, definitly is important and i need to find out what this is all about. I think i have a qlue now though.- Janedoe, thanks (again, i apprechiate your responses dearly) for reminding me that i DO deserve comfort. i`ll try to intergrate that one! and for questioning my action (lie). I am gonna keep doing that for sometime.

Frog, I could be totally off base but it sounds like you have memories inside of you that need validating and need to be heard and you are not only feeling the pain that those memories are causing you but also the frustration of not being able to remember them so that you can share them and receive the comfort you need. Therefore you created one to help you legitimise the pain you do feel. I apologise if this is not how it is.

I think the reasons behind you doing this are really important and even though what you did may not have been right, like everything else in therapy it can be worked through. I know it must be a scary thought to tell your T, but you never know by doing this you may receive the comfort you were originally looking for because what you said may not have been true but the pain you are feeling is very real and hopefully your T will be able to see that.

Butterfly

Blanket Girl (btw- i love your nick name because these days i am hiding under my T`s blanket, both bevause i am ashamed, and because i`havin a cold)

quote:

One time I confessed to my T. that I lied to someone else in my life, and he asked me if I had ever lied in therapy. My response? "Not about anything important!" He laughed so hard I thought he was going to fall out of his chair.

quote:

Thanks for sharing this- it made me laugh a bit as well- as i picture the setting... I guess i would have responded the same way as you did. I do wonder though, why your T laughed so much?
I think you situation with your father, and the question whether you lied or not- is very interesting. I would NOT call your verson of the relation/story- with your father "a lie", i think its just very human to write the story the way we want it to be. And sometimes its totally wrong, objectively seen, but we`re very "stuck" in our own subjective views, arent we? In your case i think its obvious that you just described the relation as you thought it was (the truth)and that you WISHED it was, and now, after lookin at it differently (with your T`s help?) you gained another view at it...But also the "true story" i think developes.. the truth is a process in a way. We keep writing our story all the time, with some new nuances all the time, dont we? I think so. Its so human to protect ourselfs from the hard truth, i know.

sometimes i think therapy is all about that balance-work; telling the truth (or should i say recognize, or discover the truth about our selfs and our history) and neglecting the truth. Well, now i am just going very theoretical,(sorry) in my case I DID lie with intent! thats different. (and wrong). i am still too ashamed to "come clean" with my T about this.. i know i should, and i even agree its a great chance to explore it further, but...gosh. i am just too embarressed right now. maybe there are onother way i could come into the subject with my T, just without sayin/confessing the actual lie?
BG: i am glad your T helped you open up- and didnot live you in any shame. And i am sorry that the truth hit you so hard. Allthough.. even how hard the truth is to accept, i think we long for it and want it to be discovered at some level. Afterall- why would we stick to our therapy and all the "truth-discovery" that follows?

thanks for stepping up and sharing your experience with me Blanket Girl.

Butterfly-

You`re right on the spot my dear!

Both about the BIG frustration i feel, and about the need to have the pain validatied and legitimised. (legitim pain, yes- thats very on the spot!). The memories from my childhood are so vague. Its like i am looking after "answers" from my childhood, in order to "explain" my current pain (and longing for my T`s comfort) but i just cant remember the exact happenings. Its too blury and i sometimes feels desperate to just REMEMBER, - even just ONE of them, clearly. But i cant. Thanke you also for aknowlidge my pain as real, hearing that make me feel very "seen" and comfored in a bit strange mix. As you and everyone said- i know the right thing to do is somehow bring it up with my T. But right now i am lookin`after a alternative way to get into this topic (without confessing the lie) with my T. The dream-scenario is that T understands it all, and explains to me what really happened ("the truth") and let me feel that my story, my pain, deserves attention and are legitime. (lovin`that word Butterfly!)

Oh (((( Frog ))))

You really have been put in a bad and painful place. I’m so so sorry you’re feeling so bad about what happened in your session - though I can understand perfectly why you feel this way.

I’m going to go a bit against the grain here - firstly I don’t AT ALL think that telling your T a ‘story’ to express pain and get comfort is not right, or bad, or wrong. As Butterfly says, you created a memory to legitimize the pain you were feeling - and I’m willing to bet that the story you told is probably pretty close to the truth anyway.

Boy do I get how frustrating and also shaming it is, to not have clear memories of bad ‘enough’ things to warrant feeling so bad in the present. The messages I have (which came from way back then anyway) are that I’m making it all up, that nothing really bad happened and I’m just attention seeking, wanting the ‘goodies’ (comfort, sympathy, caring, kindness) without there being a good enough reason to deserve them. I’ve often wished (and pushed myself to try and remember) that there had been some really bad traumatic things happen so as to justify both how I feel now and to make getting care and sympathy ‘legitimate’. As if feeling bad can be graded on some sort of scale, and I can only get what I want if whatever happened to me was bad enough in the eyes of other people. Does that sound familiar at all?

You know the only reason I don’t ‘make up’ memories or stories to justify my pain and neediness, is that I’m far too terrified that I’d be found out, that people can somehow tell that it’s not true. But I know when I was a kid I used to fantasize all sorts of bad things happening to me, so I could have an outlet for the pain I did feel (but didn’t know why, or what was causing it.) It’s taken me a loooong time to realize that if I was in pain, if I am in pain, then there’ll be a damn good reason for it even if I don’t know in the moment what it is. And it’s taken me even looooonger to accept that other people, especially a T, take my pain seriously, much more seriously than I do myself (that does not include my family of course!)

You know when you are finally able to talk to your T about this, I can guarantee that he will not only not be angry or upset or think less of you or be disappointed in you, he will know immediately that the issue is that you don’t think your pain is bad enough to warrant being taken seriously. The important thing he’ll look at is why you ‘lied’ - not because it’s bad or attention seeking or anything negative, but because it shows up profound unmet needs in you.

Ok none of what I’ve said is going to make you feel better about yourself. I hope so much that you can bring yourself to talk about this with T though. Until you do, you’re going to keep beating yourself up about it. I’m not sure there’s an easy way to broach this with him - my feeling is that you can only go in and say straight out - I lied. And take it from there. It’s such a big weight on you right now, and the longer you don’t bring it up in therapy, the heavier that weight will become and the more it will interfere with your therapy.

Oh and Blanketgirl’s T falling off his chair laughing - made me laugh too that comment about only lying about things that aren’t important. The point being of course that EVERYTHING is important in therapy, so it’s kind of ironic what BG said.

Frog I hope you can get this out in the open with your T soon - it must be so hard for you imagining all the worst possible reactions he could have. Sending you lots of caring thoughts ((( Frog )))

LL

it is VERY familiar how you described your experience of feeling pain, but lacking the "legitim" memories to "back up" the current pain.

I am btw ok with the lie itself now. I think i also try my best and look at it more as a "symptom" of a deeper, unexpressed oain, than just something "bad/wrong". I know- (in a level) my T will see at that way as well, and (if i know him right) he`s gonna dig, dig, dig in order to understand this lie.
I am too sorry you have to struggle with this- i am sure this problem- not feeling worthy enough for others sympathy and help- has roots in major deglected painful feelings as child.

Thanks for also believing me in that the story was pretty similar to the truth.

quote:

I’ve often wished (and pushed myself to try and remember) that there had been some really bad traumatic things happen so as to justify both how I feel now and to make getting care and sympathy ‘legitimate’. (..) But I know when I was a kid I used to fantasize all sorts of bad things happening to me, so I could have an outlet for the pain I did feel

quote:

i did that in very (creative) ways as a child too. I kept asking my parents to join me in those fanasizes (which they didnt wanted of course!)often it was about me dying in accidents and stuff, and how they would react and so on.. anyways:
I have those fantasize still. But now its rather my T`s presents in those fantasizes. He`s playin the main-role as well. Its the therapy that triggers this. Some of them has been explored with T, and i am pretty sure HE has a understanding of what it means and what the underlyin pain is about- but GOSH- I DONT UNDERSAND IT! just parts of it. i DONT know what in my life that was painful- just that something was, you know? (i know you know) its seems like a eternal sircle in therapy. I stribe for him to discover the "true" pain and give it a story and a form that is mine, followed by the unmet needs/pain being legitimized.

LL- i do feel better or at least more "cleared up" after reading your poster. It always helps knowing i am not notally ubnormal having this fantasizes and wishes. I bet its a bunch uf us out there feeling like this though..

You right about this might interfere in the therapy. And as everything else in therapy i know this somehow will come up in the session one day.(whether i bring it up or not) Those things i try to hide from T, in a mystic way, they always seem to come up. Often- when i havent planned it or thought about it for a while..i guess this case is gonna be one of those samples. ll- it made me smile when you suggested i should just go in there and say "i lied" straight out to T. in a weird way its something temting me to just do so. Just get it over with, and not waste 6 session to navigate into it 'naturally'...

(ps: just curious- are you aware of how this 'patterns' interfere with your therapy?)

Hi Frog,
You've been getting a lot of good feedback, but I just wanted to say that I really understand. I had no conscious memory of the sexual abuse until I was in my 30s and really have recovered very little concrete memories. The little that I've pieced together has often come in the form of "I know this but I have no idea how" which is crazy making and has led to spending a lot of time wondering if I made it up. I eventually had some things happen that have confirmed for me that some of what I remembered happened which helped me make my peace with the fact that I will never really remember it all. But I've remembered enough to heal, which, frankly is all I care to know.

But I wanted to share something with you that my T once said to me that I think might help you as you struggle with this. I was talking about some really distressful feelings one time and my T asked me a question about what happened and in a great deal of frustration I looked at him and said "I have no memories, just these feelings!" and he very gently told me that "no, what you have are memories OF feelings." There has been research done about trauma memories that suggests that the parts of the brain that process what happened so that a "normal" memory track can be laid down, especially the hippocampus, actually go "offline" if activation is high enough, so that what we actually remember are only the feelings and not the events. So it's understandable that you are struggling to attach these feelings TO something. So I see your "lying" as attempting to come up with a narrative that explains your feelings. That's what human beings do, we tell stories to explain ourselves. Even to ourselves. I know it's really hard, but try to accept that the feelings are real memories.

And I really do believe that your P would understand if you can bring yourself to talk to him. Hang in there, I know this is really difficult work.

AG

quote:

my T asked me a question about what happened and in a great deal of frustration I looked at him and said "I have no memories, just these feelings!" and he very gently told me that "no, what you have are memories OF feelings."

quote:

AG- thank you so much. Your T`s respond really says it all. (he must be one of the really wice good T`s. So it seems!) I think i might have to repeat that line over and over again to my self, in order to not "loose it" again and because it was so much comfort in just those few words. I imagine it was like a gift to you when he replied like that to your frustration, and i do indeed felt you just past that gift to me as well.

..i might have implied that i have big trauma-memories though- and i dont think i have (heck- i dont REMEMBER!) i`ve actually also went over, and reread all kinds of diary`s and walked to places i used to hang around as a child- hpoing that some big memories would be revieled. Nope. No such thing. just the memories of the feelings. As your (lovely) T said.

btw: as usual before a session (tomorrow early) i begin to redraw (dont know if thats a word) from my emotions and just spend the whole day daydreaming and fantasize about "memories" that i will be able to reviel... (oh, i forgot to say-too emberrasing- i find so much weird satisfaction creating this "sad" memories as well.. ah. messed up me.) but tomorrow will come, and i will just show up there with a bunch of frustration and "old" feelings. and my growing anger for this- i think sooner or later will be directed to my T. (there`s no-one else in the room to direct it at) i think tomorrows session will be different..in both good and bad ways.

AG- thanks again for your (and your T`s) words. It was helpful and very kind of you to take your time.

Frog,

quote:

i am sure this problem- not feeling worthy enough for others sympathy and help- has roots in major deglected painful feelings as child.

I heard a T once say that childhood neglect can effect us sometimes worse than any other abuse. You do not seek attention for no reason. Something inside is in need and it is okay to try to find some way to meet that need. I hope your follow-up discussion with your T about this is both insightful and comforting for you.

quote:

Thanks for also believing me in that the story was pretty similar to the truth.

I am glad someone else reminded you of this. If you do not remember, how can you be so sure it is not true!

I have proof of CSA in my childhood but I lack the visual memories to attach the pain and flashbacks to a particular event. After analyzing memories, ad infinitum, I have tried making a few connections. When tempted to think I must have made them up I remind myself that if what I think is not literally true, they are, without a doubt, emotionally true.
I think I read that it is not WHAT happened to us that is most important but rather how it makes us feel. If that is true then talking about how you felt when you told your T "what happened" will be valuable to your healing. I hope that this truth will cover you and everyone else who is struggling through these issues wth much needed grace.

********Trigger Warning for CSA***********

The problem for me is that one thought stirs intense shame, another produces overwhelming fear, another creates feelings of confusion, another disgust and two of the thoughts cause me to well up with anger. Two of those scenario's include the same perpetrator and is of the only one on which I have any documentation. What if they are all by this same person and I am completely off-base? What if I am right and am just afraid to admit to myself that no one bothered to protect my vulnerability and innocence. Ugh! No wonder this is such difficult work.


deeplyrooted

...UV, that was a good question.. I have honestly no idea. i didnt bring up the book/sister thing..i know..i should`have. Just couldnt. too much other stuff that came up instead. If it is related to that, i might have made up that story in (defence) order to distract from that (too) dangerous topic. That might ver well be the case. I have to think about that. (thanks for remembering, btw! That was unexpected, in a very good way)


and Deeplyrooted - Thanks for the long and personal response- for sharing your experience. It means allot. Your Emily Dickinson Quote was espescially to the point on this thread! Love it..i might share it with my T sometimes (in english )