It sounds great that you get to have that feeling with him.

yes, stoppers, it is. sometimes at night after a good session, i just fall asleep basking in the peace he brings out in me. he is like the parent i never had, and that EVERY child should have. patient, kind, accepting, light, still, funny,

just a warm glow when i think of him. paternal transference for sure. nothing erotic. just the warmth of being held emotionally, and believed in.

mmmmm.

NOT brain matter centrifuged onto the ceiling and walls....

jill

Hi Jill, - thanks for telling us where your are at the moment, the warmth and soothing came across in tou poster, and it relate alot the way you describe your analytical T. I relate alot to the description of your T, my T is also psychoanalyst and in his 70`s and is the only t that i ever felt so good with. Fwiw, yes, i do think a pa can 'heal' a person with bpd traits. Also want to say that you dont have to tell him about the bpd therapy as long as you dont want to, yet i was wondering why you dont wanna tell him about it? Is it his reaction you`re afraid of?
Hugs,

frog. i feel deceptive.

i have been interested in pa, interviewed a few. found him, liked him. kinda walked both ways with him and dbt, as repercussions from being terminated unexpectantly from a t last summer, and liked the assurance of a fall back t. knew dbt was good for bpd, and very different from pa.

i guess i just feel a betrayal to him that was only done in a self protective way, fear of rejection. and i wouldn't want to hurt either's feelings that they were not the only one. and once you begin a deception, it is hard to go back and fix it.

hurt feelings and my 'lying', not that anyone has asked if i was seeing another t, but lying by ommission.

too, i didn't know what i would like, and didn't want to waste time with one when i was intrigued with both.

a complicated web i weave, but, as best i can tell, those are my reasons. my own personal safety in not being kicked out with out a back up.

once terminated by a t, one never feels truly safe again...except, with him, barring illness...i feel safe.

and mostly, accepted. valued. enjoyed. just all those good things.

definitely feeling the talking cure of pa. mmmmm, jill

and, pa is infinitely more interesting than any other t. the unconscious, dreams, endless hours...if you want...on childhood. (i recall dbt gals impatience when i spoke of those things).

three hours a week of warmth and acceptance is beginnning to have an effect on me. and i have told him more than anyone i know. and never, once, felt estranged.

i wish he could adopt me!! (joking, i am not deranged, but i just love how i feel in there, and for many hours after.)

i love how there is NOTHING you can say that he can't use in some way. and some of his interpretations???? wow. as long as i have been living in this body it is AMAZING what i am learning about myself that i never knew.

i love the engagement. the ability to 'argue' with him. the warm, charm he glows with. the ability he has to take me so many places, and always arrive safely 'home' at the end of the session. i love catching him off guard. which is rare, and he is good at hiding it. i love his stories, i love his intellect. i love his kindness.

oh...guys, you KNOW how long it has been!!

can i just land squarely in his hands, and not do this dbt group stuff...ok, i will try it on wednesday, just to have one group experience in my portfolio, but, he IS a psychiatrist, psycho-analytically trained. he should know what he is doing. y'no??

i don't know who can give me the permission i am looking for, yes, i know....me, but, i just need to emote, and for once...it is a warm basking glow of affirmation and acceptance, and terribly good insight. jill

quote:

love the engagement. the ability to 'argue' with him. the warm, charm he glows with. the ability he has to take me so many places, and always arrive safely 'home' at the end of the session. i love catching him off guard. which is rare, and he is good at hiding it. i love his stories, i love his intellect. i love his kindness.

oh jill... this is the perfect description of how I feel with my current T... and I'm SO very happy you feel this way with your new "P". You say he is a psychiatrist right? So he is a P. I think what you have found is your "attachment figure" and you are enjoying the warmth of knowing how secure the relationship is becoming. You are feeling accepted and heard and you are also getting some needs met through him. He has the ability to contain the fallout... your emotions and any shame that comes from talking to him about your traumas from the past and that makes you feel safe with him.

I will also go out on a ledge and speculate that he is very consistent, steady, has some good boundaries but is warm and open, and he does not get defensive. Am I right? He also sounds quite experienced and has the perspective that comes with age and experience in working with patients with trauma backgrounds. That is partially where his lovely insight comes from that makes you feel so understood. You sound like there is very good attunement and limbic resonance. This is what you carry away with you from your sessions and why you feel so good. I know that feeling and it's wonderful.

As for needing another therapy, specifically DBT....the way things sound with your new P I would say no. Why don't you tell dbt gal you are taking a two month break and will call her when and if you decide to come back. If you find it difficult to do without the dbt then you can always return to it but what I'm hearing from you is that this new P is acting as an emotional regulator for you. You are internalizing his ability to steady you and he is having a calming effect on your out of whack nervous system. He is slowly changing that. Skills are good and you have probably learned enough by now to help you when you need some coping mechanisms but I do think that if things keep going like this with your P that you will be fine with doing therapy only with him.

This is just my opinion based on what you told me in these posts. You sound like you have found what you have been searching for all these years and it makes me happy to know that for now at least, your searching is over.

Please keep us updated as I'm interested in how you are doing and how you are feeling after your sessions.

Does any of what I said make sense or feel right to you?

Hugs
TN

tn, thanks for that input. i appreciate your wisdom and perspective on this...yes, he does regulate my emotions. without skills emphasis, he is teaching me how, by somewhat being inside me and showing me how it happens. re-parenting me. oh, i need that so much, and i so like how he does it. the kindness. the gentleness.

i did, after last session and throwing up on the way home, call her and took three weeks off. and i have enjoyed it!

i am going to talk to pa about trauma processing, and what he feels i need to do to face that, and work through it in a curative way.

i am still a bit stuck on the skills group stuff. my h thinks i need to try it a week. and then decide. which i might, although i know basing a decision on one week is hardly fair.

but,

y'no?

if dipping your toe in scalding hot water week after week (dbt) hurts...and you find some soothing waters, who are you trying to prove something to by learning to tolerate hot water?

which reminds me, she criticized (i felt) my talking in metaphors, which really hurt my feelings. i know i am sensitive, but, oh, she just didn't seem to like much i did.

scalding hot water. yuk.



thanks tn, you know better than anyone the joy in finding this!! who woulda known, look at us, tn!! an attuned t!! clink clink! cheers! xxoo, jill

just read a book ... "PSYCHODYNAMIC TECHNIQUES-working with emotion in the therapeutic relationship" by karen maroda

and there is so much supportive of psychoanalytical psychotherapy for managing emotions and emotional affect. this was written for the beginning therapist, i suppose. not complex, but not for the patient, but i see so much support for this type therapy for helping patients regulate emotional distress. a chapter just on bpd. seems really promising, and for whatever reason, so much easier and less traumatic than the dbt. not that stuff is not discussed...maybe it is just the expertise of the analyst/therapist more than the mode of therapy. stresses the importance of empathy and authentic emotional affect on the therapist and how that is conveyed and healing to the client. that healing cannot occur with out it. how the cycle of emotional attachment can only be completed within this emotional containment and sharing of the therapeutic relationship. "completeing the cycle of affective communication, often lacking in their early attachment experiences, is vital to their development of affect regulation." , the importance of responding with emotional honesty. even confrontation, being valid, as a relationship with out confrontation and sometimes anger...or other negative emotions ... validates the relationship as real and completes this cycle.

this just tells me, without the emotional connection and safety (as i did not feel with dbt gal...) this healing and relearning cannot happen on that 'lymbic' level.

oh, yes. i know, oh, don't i know. without an emotional connection that, at a gut level, feels 'true'...one is just too alone in that room to heal.

y'no, when words tell you one thing, but your gut pulls you in another direction. how rarely i trust my gut. and how often i find it was right.

this just feels right for me.

i know i am rambling. just if it helps anyone else out there, i put it out there.



is there anyone here working with a true analyst in either true couch-work, or psychoanalytical psychotherapy? i just find this such a different approach.

i would love to see anothers perspective. jill

i hate to beg, but i'd love some feedback here. or are y'all sick of me flopping back and forth???

i really don't know what to do. pa? dbt and pa? skills group, dbt individual and pa?

help??!!**&&$$))!!

xxoo, jill

oh, df. this urgency, i have a feeling, is a part of the bpd. or hysteria. same thing, i hear.

there is a dbt group i can do, starting wednesday. another t in the practice with dbt gal. weekly, six to eight month committment. then, individual on the side. maybe, since it has been so hard with her, i could get her to just do in every other week? and the pa guy i see m and fri, three hours total.

i get urgent, thinking, the sooner i get it done, the better. but then, i think, if i don't do it now, i never will...which is a judgment (!).

but, if i do it now, in conjunction with pa, by summer or so, i will have it behind me!!!

but then, maybe pa is enough. i am going to talk to him about trauma work, and his 'theory' for how to process through that, and really get it behind you. he is not, i don't believe, into this 'talk about your trauma' until it doesn't make you crazy.

he keeps me calm. soothing. accepting...doesn't let my emotions get out of control.

i dunno. i guess right now (and it could change in a moment!) i feel like do the flipping group, get it done. go twice a month to dbt gal, if they will let me. and keep him up.

really, i wonder....am i really that messed up that i need this much therapy??? but then, my emotions DO go from one to a hundred in a quick second!

agh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it just seems like all these other people i see every day don't have such a hard time just LIVING. y'no??

truly, i feel like i only act borderline when i am in there with her. the rest of the time, 95% of the time, outside of her office, i do not escalate like i do in there. i feel like telling her 'if i start this borderline stuff again, i'll call you, but, til then...ADIOS!!

hmmm

dang, my thoughts on this change so fast.

then, this 'thorough' part of me, just says, do it ALL, and that way you will never have to wonder...

then, this other part of me says..."jill, your life is passing before your eyes, and you are stuck in therapy missing it all!!"

i wish i could make a decision!!

thanks df.

for some reason though, i don't anticipate the other people in group making me nuts...do they?? am i naive??

i think if they are slow with this stuff, it might. or, if i just totally can't relate to them, i dunno.

she said i could 'try' the group, but i don't have to committ til i try it..

or

i could do skills privately with terror-lady (dbt gal).

i can already say...that won't work. i am afraid of her. she pulls so deep at my insides.

oh, the pain.

individual dbt wasn't that bad for you, i gather you really like your gal. was it hell at times???

thanks, jill

df, regarding telling them both about each other. i don't know if they would continue to work with me under that. that they would feel they were conflicting. that it wasn't THEIR idea, and i would not have good success with this conversation. fear of abandonment. rejection, all that stuff.

i could tell dbt gal, maybe, since i have less to lose with her, as if she craters on me, i could do individual with the group leader t. with him?? oh, i just can't tell him. he has SOOO bought into helping me. i am HIS. he doesn't have many clients, just works two to three days a week, and short days. i bet he only has two or three regular clients a week. maybe five at most. it just feels so good there, i CAN'T rock that boat....

i am such a chicken, so fearful. so deceptive because i am so afraid. ugh!!

so afraid to ever rock the boat.

mom...you really screwed me up!!

waaa!!

jill

df, how 'bout you just be my mom??



ok, good points. but i am really sticking on NOT telling pa. ok, df...not telling him, right now. better?

so your torture-t was not your dbt t.

i know, i try to predict all the way down the road, and you are right, all i can do now is try the group, and figure it out from there.

i may, tho, if i like the group t, try to get her for the dbt t.

it is so weird, i just can't tie into dbt gal. it is like our limbic systems are polar opposites.

fear??

probably.

anyway. i appreciate you being firm with me on the 'telling pa'...i am glad you feel that comfortable to tell me what you think.

the thing is, he (pa) doesn't think i am borderline. altho he doesn't seem to use diagnoses. he said one time about me being a mild hysteric. i told him i would be all the way if my super-ego were not such a bi***, that i am a repressed borderline. he said, rather firmly, that he thought he knew more about this than i did, and he maintains that i am not the fragile person i paint myself to be.

and about my 'falling apart' episodes in there?? he doesn't seem alarmed.

now, maybe his way is to not hype up this moderate hysteric by hanging a dx around her neck.

i can see he is working to balance my emotions, by somewhat being my 'new' super ego. that i will one day internalize and replace my own with.

so, point is, he won't think i need the skills stuff, and, keep in mind, he is late 70's, so, he and his analytical mindset are not too up on dbt or cbt type stuff.

he would just say, i don't need it.

and maybe he is right??

geez, i don't know.

weird how these therapies all bring out different stuff in me.

and yes, i know you are not bpd, and that dbt is useful for everyone. so, sorry if i spun that wrong.

i shall ponder your thoughts. including knowing dbt is not going away. so i don't have to act now.

oh, confusion...my life partner!!

xxoo, thanks, df...jill

ok, df...red or green??

hee hee!

now i have this fear, my pa had to reschedule monday, and last time he had his feet propped up on an ottoman.

now, the thought ruminating in my head is that he is sick, he had a dr. appt, and he is not going to be 'mine' for as long as i need him.

and, today is our rescheduled appt and it is icy and snowy, so i predict, since schools are cancelled, that i won't see him today either.

i am going to ask him if he is ok, although i know what he has to tell me.

geez, an ever changing world!!



so, what did you decide, red or green?? jill

well i have another week to think on this group deal. snow, they cancelled tomorrow.

geez, i hate snow!



anyway. red is i'll go, try it once, figure it out from there.

pa cancelled today, snow. funny how the north usa works in three feet of snow? and down south?? we roll up the streets with a half an inch! paralysis!!

anyway. it's ok, i am in a pretty good state right now.

been reading alot about pa and bpd traits, and feel encouraged that he is working well with me.

i am sure yall are sick of this rambling. i jsut get in such a quandrey sometimes, and obsess and ruminate an issue to death.



what do you do when a part of you really enjoys this all or nothing, colorful, dramatic, quirky perspective....i hate the boring 'milk toast' vanilla, bland, middle of the road approach and perspective. i guess what i get with that is the highs and the lows.

i just need to shake that core of being 'bad'...old strings that i know logically aren't true.

can i really let that go??

can i really move beyond??

i think that, and the emotional regulation (and abandonment, and paranoia) are my only problems.



just a small list.

and, rambling into cyber space all by myself.

geez, jill, get off of this site already!

thanks draggers. i like your two cents!! two pounds!! two euros!!

y'no, the more i read, the more i see that the relationship is what heals.

oh, i love him. i really do. i know it is transference, but, warm fuzzies all over.

i think too, i can learn some skills through the book.

the group was cancelled due to weather, and i will try it once and decide on it. i know the skills are good, and there is a difference in learning things live and reading it.

too, i know i have a hard time with women t's. so, it may be me, too in this picture. at the minimum, we are both at fault.

she is not emotionally honest. i SEE it. and how can you trust someone you don't see as being honest with you, even if it hurts.

thanks, and xxo to you too! jill