I do not think he would be mad or afraid. I think it was brave to tell him and good luck with the seemingly interminable wait until Friday.

jill, don't be spooked you did the right thing by telling him because if you didn't it would haunt you and cloud your nicely progressing relationship with him. I believe your relationship is strong enough at this point to weather a little disruption ... BUT I don't even think this qualifies as one. You were honest...that was good.

I think that he was taken off guard and probably didn't know what to say. Or... you may not be remembering the good stuff he said/did since you were dissociating so much in session due to fear. Did you look at him when you discussed this? How was his body language? He said he would see you Friday so that was his way of telling you that he would not ask you to leave nor was he angry with you. I think you just expected him to be very angry and maybe you are seeing it (or projecting that onto him) because it was what you expected to see.

And because he is psychoanalytic he may not say to much in this case preferring to remain more blank so you can work through this w/o him influencing you. I told my T that I was seeing another T for 3 weeks while I saw him too in the very beginning of our relationship. He seemed to understand my need to be sure he was right for me especially after what happened with oldT. But he did say some Ts may get a little intimidated by that. Maybe your pa felt intimiated a bit but he will recover his equilibrium, I'm sure, and you will go on to do good work together.

When you go back make it clear to him that this relationship is important to you and becuase of that you needed to be honest with him and clear the air. Does he seem to be relationship focused?

I think it was very brave of you jill to go in there and tell him all that you did. He should be proud of you!

On another note... I very much understand the whole male/female thing. I will never be under another female and I could not work with a female T... I tried it. I react better with males and feel safer with them. Even though my Dad was totally uninvolved with me I think my mom (and subsequent female bosses) did much more damage.

Hang in there jill. Friday will be fine. It may even bring you closer.

Hugs
TN

quote:

On another note... I very much understand the whole male/female thing. I will never be under another female and I could not work with a female T... I tried it. I react better with males and feel safer with them. Even though my Dad was totally uninvolved with me I think my mom (and subsequent female bosses) did much more damage.

Wow, TN, it's like I have a twin somewhere out there.

jill, it doesn't sound to me like he was angry. I would interpret the reminder about Friday as an attempt at reassurance that you haven't "damaged" anything between you. I would bet his appreciation of your honesty outweighs any frustration with you seeing another T. I also agree with TN. I have to fill in the gaps a bit when I dissociate in sessions, so I tend to interpret things in a less accurate (usually more negative) light, because although I am still there, I'm not present enough to observe or properly read things like body language, tone of voice, etc. Everytime I have been honest about something scary, it has been a small step forward in the process, so I bet this will be helpful down the road...maybe even on Friday!

Jill,

so glad you told him. did he offer any insight? Or you were just so spaced out you don't remember what he said?

guys, i sabbotage things when they are going well.

it is like my creepy little id knows jill is not supposed to be doing well, so, my super-ego steps in and says, jill, you are being deceptive...SEE, your core is bad and deceptive. so, i shoot myself in the foot. i can't believe someone can accept me without knowing every little creepy thing about me, so, i rat myself out to be a shit.

OR

perhaps unconsciuosly i know that THIS is my pattern (the above) and i have read enough about therapy to know that real life things have a way of working themselves into the t/client relationship and reenacting past dramas in the therapy room.



i just know it is like two timing him, especially in his almighty md/pa status, which i respect, but they don't like being rivaled by petty lcsw types. i punctured his ego. and will he retaliate? will he see how pitiful and confused and afraid of being abandoned i am, to have two t's.

then he said something about the money. i always feel, since dr. sleepy (who he knows) charges $100 more than he does, anyway, i always feel like he doesn't think i pay enough. we did, somewhat, negotiate the cost, based on what i did pay, and husband's job, etc.

if the money comes up again, should i ask if he wants more??

i am so desparate.

i am really, really, really hating that i did this.

i wonder if maybe i will look back and this rupture will begin some really depth growth??

or, be the beginning of the end.

God Almighty, please let things not be severed here. please Lord.



FRIENDS, IS THIS A FATAL BLOW??? TWO TIMING A PA??? it was all done from my own insecurity.

some things came out today, i told him how MISERABLE i was in there. that i hated her and the therapy, but, like alcohol on a wound, i thought some good surely had to come of it.

oh, i feel so bad for being deceptive, then, i ask, is this really terrible? what i did.

i know i am a slow learner. and slow to feel safe, slow to trust.

i felt so accepted in there, that i HAD to be honest, that really, down in my core, i am bad.

see?

oh, i could really go off the deep end, i want to yell at anyone who supported me doing this. i want to blame someone but me. (don't be offended, people, i just am venting). i don't know what way is up. i don't know how i got myself into this trainwreck....AGAIN.

dang it, i always pull up a trainwreck to trip me up and spoil anything good that happens..

WWWWWHHHHHYYYYYYY?????? why, jill, do you punish yourself. why do you feel such guilt for protecting yourself. why do you THINK honesty is the best policy????


what are you trying to do? to prove??


oh, friends, i can't respond individually, i am too strung out right now.

damn it, whenever things are good, i shoot myself.

i JUST ended it with dbt gal last week, and instead of staying steady for the course for awhile, i DISRUPT things. i was feeling good, altho the last session was a bit small talkish, so, what do i do??? i throw in a nuclear bomb.

why do i hate myself????

why do i hate myself????

why, oh, why, oh why God, do i hate myself so so so so so so so so so much?

pray for me guys. i am in bad shape. pray for me, and for him to not change. to not leave me.

oh, friends, the fear of abandonment...there IS no deeper fear, i don't believe, other than direct death.

pray for me. even if you don't pray. pray for me.

why do y'all say 'good for telling him'???

please support WHY this was good????


please! please sell me on why what i did (jeapordize a very important relationship) was good??

Jill, I can hear how scary this is. so scary that it led to you dissociating to get through it. so i see it that you were very brave, not a shit like you unkindly and unfairly (imo) referred to yourself. but i say that having been there when i do something that seems self-destructive and then say what you have asked, "why do i do this to myself?" ah, these are the questions we all need to find out in therapy. you ARE doing the work, dear jill. you cannot predict for sure how dr. pa is going to respond, hence why it is so scary. but i for one see it as you trying to move closer to him. if he sees it that way too then it will turn out to be a very good thing. try to be gentle with yourself between now and friday and dont give up hope, k?

I just want to reiterate what everyone else here is saying. It is definitely a step forward and I sincerely doubt it is going to cause him to abandon you. Every time I have been open and vulnerable with my T about deep/scary stuff, he has been so appreciative, thanking me for trusting him with that. That being said, I know exactly how you feel, because I still project my T's judgment everytime I start acting out (texting too often, etc.). I'm about to talk very specifically about my transference issues to him (which I have described, but never labeled so specifically). I'm scared to death he's going to be like, "That wasn't my intention and now I need to create stronger boundaries and push you away." It makes no logical sense to believe he would do that, but I still FEEL that way, so I really empathize with your assumptions.

The way I have dealt with it with my T (who granted I've only been with six months), is to specifically tell him my ridiculous worries. I usually say something like, "Projecting you feel [such and such], because of [whatever my reason]. I know it doesn't make sense." I usually do so via text or journaling and specifically tell T he doesn't need to explain or apologize, because when he does so, I actually feel like I've manipulated him into reassuring me. He usually tries to respect that, but sometimes I wish he'd reassure me anyway, so I could feel it was something initiated by him and still get what I need to feel he's still there despite my ridiculous thoughts. I think he is wanting me to learn to ask for what I really want and not freak out that I will be rejected and it will kill me.

guys, i am compartmentalizing, and i can't 'go here' yet. i do appreciate your responses, but right now, i can't open my brain to this area of my life. right now, denial of reality is in my best interest. i'll open this later. like scarlett, i'll worry about this tomorrow when maybe i can sort it through without panic.

j

well, i went back today, a week after my big 'reveal' of 'other t'. he really acted like he didn't quite know what i was talking about, my being nervous about coming in again after revealing that i had another t going too. and that i was nervous today, and after i had thought about it, realized perhaps i had overreacted to my 'sin'. and that he was a big boy, we were not 'friends', i had not 'hurt his feelings'...that he hears much bigger stuff than that, and that i THAT were going to throw him off his rocker, than, it was good i knew that....

anyway, i told him i guess i overreacted, and, i don't know, it seems like his WHOLE way with me is to bring my hysterics DOWN, and so, he deflates EVERYTHING that i think is a big deal...which is good, somewhat, BUT, it is like having oatmeal for every meal!~!~!~!~

enough with the nice stuff.

WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH ME!!! WHY CAN'T I HAVE SOMEONE BE NICE TO ME AND NOT FEEL LIKE THEY ARE JUST NOT TELLING ME EVERYTHING!!!

i always think there is a hidden agenda. and the trainwreck will come.

i know i am making little sense here.

idk, i just want to shake him UP, and see what is there!! i can't have 'NICE'...i don't think it is REAL. i gotta have a trainwreck, and if i don't, i'll create one.

he said earlier that i have masochistic instincts...

YES I DO, SO ...

DO SOMETHING!

HATE ME!! something, so that i can see that you are alive and are being HONEST!

why can't someone honestly LIKE me....

oh, jill, you are so deeply infested with the funk in your brain, it WILL never go away. you INSIST on slowly killing your life with the toxic poison of negativity.

but jill, reallly, he is just not wanting to get involved. it is easier than arguing with you.

oh, guys, i am not well.

i have taken a few anxiety things and am not really responding properly.

i think i don't want any support. no nothing. don't tell me it will all be better. i am 50. that is bs.

i just have to one day, live, breathe, quit hating myself, quit being too afraid to live and get involved for fear of MORE rejection.

i have had so much rejection. i know many of y'all feel the same way. but, i have MAJORED in rejection. and that damn dr. pa won't reject me.

it makes me mad. i know he wants to, but, it is like that game you play as a kid when you stare off at someone and the first one to blink loses. well, he knows my game, it is is just a game to him. he WOULD reject me by now, but, then, he would be the first to blink, and would lose. so, what do i do now??

idk, i have always forced their hand, and they have folded...just like the rest.

they blink, i WIN...but, really, i always lose in my heart.

but then, i am paying HIM. he is doing that damned carl rogers acceptance routine. which i HATE.

oh, i am either really mad, or just fizzled out of enthusiasm. bored by niceness. bored. bored. bored.

now i know, i could go to dbt gal and feel beat up on. but, for some reason, i, actually, JILL...is SICK of paying for rejection.

is THAT progress??

damn, progress is SLOW and backwards and convoluted.

and i am near crazy. insane. old, fat,

do i force my way OUT????

oh, i ramble,

no, i am not 'on drugs', illicit drugs. mine are perscribed.

j

uv, df, yokusoku, tn, stoppers, liese, mh,

i have read all your support, and appreciate it so much. i have purposely NOT gone back here, i've had the flu, i haven't wanted to think about this, and i just want you all to know i appreciate and have considered your words.

i am bracing this reality slowly, and now mad that he seems so unshaken.

i am confused.

thanks for your support. i would much rather help you all than process my own stuff, so, sorry on the slow return. it just is so painful to look in the mirror. i'd rather be a helpER than a helpEE.

y'no?

xxoo j

quote:

idk, i just want to shake him UP, and see what is there!! i can't have 'NICE'...i don't think it is REAL. i gotta have a trainwreck, and if i don't, i'll create one.

he said earlier that i have masochistic instincts...

YES I DO, SO ...

DO SOMETHING!

HATE ME!! something, so that i can see that you are alive and are being HONEST!

why can't someone honestly LIKE me....

((((((((((((((jill))))))))))))))))

Seriously know how you feel. Sometimes all I can see is manipulation and a sick sort of game, where I know T will win, because he is better at pretending he cares than I am tricking him into revealing he doesn't!!! I actually find myself more comfortable relating to people if they betray, neglect and abuse. Because, at least I know what to expect and can defend against it. How do I defend against care and nurture? And if I fail in defending against it, what happens when that inevitable abandonment comes...when they just get sick of my bull and my inability to ever be different. I've been this way over half my life and everyone who has tried to help me so far has failed...most have left. Ultimately, the only successes I've had are when I abuse and neglect myself into behaving instead of letting someone else do it for me. But there are other people on here whose journeys prove there is a path out...so I'm going back for my next dosage of torture in a few hours.

i hate that he wont be shaken. that he 'didn't really recall the event' at least in the way I did.

i don't know if i hide my dissociation...did he NOT notice??

f!

are you trying to 'position this' as ok, or, are ya not there???

which is it, big man??

poke, poke, poke...are you THERE???

am i talking to a wall???


this is making me volatile, NOT calm...is THAT your intent???

i wanna play hardball and you are playing checkers...

COME ON!!!!

HATE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!

(are y'all this intense?? am i an 'hysteric'??? which i KNOW is just old style for BORDERLINE!!

ya walk like a duck and ya talk like a duck...well, you ARE a duck.

quack quack...PUN INTENDED!

i am enraged.

i am screaming at the computer and it just sits there. i HAvE lost my MiND, i KNOW.

and he just sits there and smiles and tells me, so far, i have NOT told him ANYTHING that would make him think i am borderline.

shit!

what do i have to do???

or, is he right??

is this just an old pattern of trying to get parents to pay attention to me...that i have to be SICK to get them to notice me.

dang.

you got something there, jill.

so, does this mean, that he is not going to be any more 'impressed' with me if i am well or i am sick, it is all the same??

is he on to something that i don't know?? that i have just unearthed??

i know i am talking to myself, but, typing prohibits my circular thinking, so, thank you for offering me the cyber space to process

its like he is a magician of sorts, and dang it, no matter what i do, he won't reveal his secrets.

or, are there any??

is it like the wizard of oz, and he is just sitting patiently while i work myself out.

he=complacent.
me=crazed.

shit.

what gives, dr. pa. what gives.

please tell me the answer.

what gives.

j

quote:

are you trying to 'position this' as ok, or, are ya not there???

Sorry to cross-post again. This is exactly the question I've been asking myself since last week, regarding the transference stuff. So, are you OK with what I just told you? Am I "allowed" this cherished attachment or are you trying to ignore it or psychologize it out of me on the sly, because you know I will freak out if you reject me? Or worse, do you just not "get" it?!?!?!

yakusoku.

your quote: And if I fail in defending against it, what happens when that inevitable abandonment comes...when they just get sick of my bull and my inability to ever be different. I've been this way over half my life and everyone who has tried to help me so far has failed...most have left.

yep, the 'inevitable' abandonment. they will eventually get sick of my determination emotionally to not change. no matter that i get it intellectually. i DON'T get it emotionally, and i KNOW it will end in a trainwreck, and if HE doesn't do something to ensure that, well, I WILL.

and the later bit...am i 'allowed' to feel this, or say this????

i really wonder.

i censor stuff.

WHO DOESN'T!!!

how could one NOT censure stuff.

really, i would like to do the old style pa with him a few sessions, and just go. off into my own world, not having to look at him or engage on an intellectual basis with him...believe me, if intellect were the controller of ME, i wouldn't BE in therapy.

but intellect IS NOT IN CONTROL!!! WHEN WILL SOMEONE GET THAT!!
ya, im with you, yakusoku...the worst option is that they just don't GET it.

t1 through 5 didn't GET it.

all my money, all my 'eggs' are in his basket.

good luck tonight. i don't know how you do a night session, i think i'd ruin my whole day thinking about it, trying out different dialouges in my head.

oh, go cherish your attachment...see if it disintegrates....i keep trying, and dang, he is stubborn...(or, doesn't get it).

thanks, yakusoku

too, dr. pa...why, when i want to talk about 'us', do you shine the conversation over to my husband.

you KNOW, he is not a good example of my problems, he has passed the test. for whatever reason, he loves and accepts me. my problems are with everybody ELSE in the world. including YOU. why won't you reject me??

why don't you make me feel bad about ME??

why do i look forward to see YOU??

why do i like to be in your room???

why do i hate to see the clock end??

why are you so warm and fuzzy.

but, please. the political stories are old, and you've hit 'replay' on most your other stories.

just let me recline on your sofa, freud style, and VENT!@!@!@!@!

you may call it free associate, i call it VENT.



would that be too awkward to request?? abandon the chair, lie on the sofa, and spill it all out there, including these frustrations with his danged acceptance.

an hour and a half of me, talking, circles...he would really earn his money not interupting that lava flow.

Wish I could say this kind of stuff directly to my T, but alas, as much as I'm practically begging him to fail and reject me, I'm so afraid of it!

quote:

why don't you make me feel bad about ME??

why do i look forward to see YOU??

why do i like to be in your room???

why do i hate to see the clock end??

why are you so warm and fuzzy.

jill...take a breath and listen....I think you are scared. You are scared that this dr. pa means a lot to you and you now think you should run away from him but he is not giving you a reason to run so you are looking REALLY hard for a reason not to trust him.

I'd like to try responding to your questions above.

1. because you shouldn't feel bad about yourself. you are a good person.

2. you look forward to seeing him because he makes you feel good, he offers complete acceptance, he listens to you and he makes therapy about YOU. Why WOULDN'T you want to see him?

3. you like to be in his room because it makes you feel warm and safe and cared for. you can be YOU in there and it feels like the home you never had as a child

4. you hate to see the clock tell you session is over because of answers 1 -3 above!

5. he is warm and fuzzy because he knows the relationship will heal you and he is developing that relationship. he feels warm and fuzzy to you because he is offering kindness, understanding, empathy, and acceptance. He is meeting your needs that you didn't have met as a child. It feels really good and you want to hug him.

Am I close??

jill, stop trying to run and try to sit with the feelings that he cares for you and that he wants to help you and then allow him to help you. I know you like him so stay and enjoy the warm fuzzy feelings.

When is your next session?

I hope you feel better about this soon.
TN

yakusoku, i know. it comes so easily here, but when there, i am so flipping polite and shy. ugh. i hate to read this, for some reason that never seems welcomed with him. he wants it off the cuff, but, it just doesn't come. and i like dynamic therapy, but, yesterday, anyway, it was TOO dynamic. he talked too much. i think he was trying to soothe me, and not let me wind myself up too much. but, i really want to free associate in there. really got the itch.

tn. i see what you are saying. i'd think it too, if it were you, but, for me?? i just don't buy it. he is repressing his frustration with my stubborn tenaciuos hold on self disgust. and shame.

i am sure it gets old. i do tell him about my 'bad' core. and we discussed that some of what i consider selfish, and shameful...(like the protection of having another t in case one fell through) is really, for me, self preservation. really, i know i protect myself alot. from unconscious fear. fear of heartbreak. like now, my kids are teens, and i am busy 'finding myself' so that when the empty nest hits, i will be somewhat prepared....HOWEVER!!!!

by scuttling around so much NOW finding ME, i have an underlying anxiety that i am missing the NOW. i DO this. i protect myself for the future trainwreck i imagine to happen, but in doing so, i miss the present, and unconsciously, i KNOW it, that is the anxiety i feel. it is starting to make sense. my fear of really participating in life. i fear 'losing myself', but, maybe in that outward projection, i would find myself. but,

i am scared.

i gotta figure out what of. but, i think this is a lead.

maybe, the 'oatmeal' of day to day life...just seems so dull, cooking, cleaning, working in the cafeteria. but, maybe the 'oatmeal' of everyday is what cures you...and i am here on the outside looking in, satisfied with an occasional chocolate, but mostly stale crackers.

oh, the metaphors. is that a disease in itself, that i am SO removed from my world that i can only talk about it figuratively?

thanks yakusoku...how was your appointment last night?

tn, i guess, i wish i could expose a little of his disgust, as then it would help my buy into his emotional honesty. does that make sense?? y'no, no one is perfect. we all are a mixture of admirable qualities and neuroses. i guess he has discussed those...my masochistic urges.

where the hell did they come from??? i wasn't beaten...dang, now i am back to validation.

i think i need to quit trying to understand my life, and just live it. but my brain is forever spinning and processing. i have to have something to FIX it on, and it can't be mastering laundrey! k

quote:

thanks yakusoku...how was your appointment last night?

It went really, really well. The best ever. So, of course, I am now scared $#!+less!!! Why does he keep insisting on making me feel safe with him? It seems almost certain that he will eventually get tired of the amount of effort supporting me will take.