((AG)),

I just wanted to send some hugs your way. Our society has made it ok and even encourages people commenting on others physical proportions. Whether it is to your face or behind your back. Just this week at work I heard people whispering in the hallway about me and my body. I hate that! I struggle all the time with wanting my body to be invisible so I won't hear comments from people.

I'm so sorry for your difficult weekend. The first therapist I ever saw was much like your BIL. You just have to do it! I didn't stick with him for long! When you are ready then you will be able to make the changes that you need to make. And until then, nothing your BIL or any other well meaning loved one says will really be able to make you change. Do try to believe that he made his comments out of love and concern for you.

Just wanted you to know that I understand and commiserate.

Jillann

Oh, AG, sweetie, what a rough weekend. I was horrified to read about what your BIL thought was a nice surprise. My heart goes out to you. I think you handled yourself with grace and so much more class than your BIL. I am so glad that dh was there to help soothe some of the feelings that came up. I think I might have slugged BIL or threw a drink at him, well-meaning or not.

Of course you are feeling raw. You have been working so hard in therapy and so hard on these issues. They did not occur in an instant and won't be resolved in an instant. You are doing the very hard work to get where you want to go and I know you will get there. In time.

Right now I'm at my heaviest too, so I understand. The trauma caused by oldT set me way back in controlling my disordered eating. And right now I'm dealing with a dh and ds who think that they can harass me into being fit and thin. It's not that easy. I think you are very courageous and inspirational.

Lotsa hugs
TN

I have more to say, and I will tomorrow but I just had to say now, right after I read this that I'm very sorry. Your BIL sounds like a dope, and I'm glad your H could pick up on things and lend support. Sometimes situations like these seem to come up RIGHT WHEN we are doing work in therapy on it... it's a blessing and a curse. I can relate to you thoroughly on the accepting the body as part of and not deserving punishment. I'm glad you are venting some anger outside

AG,

What a horrible experience. Your BL needs to learn some basic social skills even if his intentions were good.

I can relate to what you have said here quite a bit. I was a very skinny person up until about my mid thirties. Now I am pretty overweight and I really haven't done a whole lot about it. Well I did give up my car almost exactly 2 years ago and have been biking everywhere for the most part. Even still I have not lost much weight doing this. I expected to be rail thin by now but something in the universe demands that I do not even come close to starving. lol. Clothes fit me better but I am still quite a bit oerweight.
I started seeing a new doctor, general practitioner (GP) not long ago and she is on me about losing weight. I told her in the first meeting with her that I had lost quite a bit and that I was doin what I could. She acted like I never told her that. she's put all kinds of things in my system wide shared chart (new thing where I seek medical help) this means that if I have a psychiatric condition my pediatrist will know this even if it is a meeting simply for a hang nail... But I digress. I have considered leaving this GP and finding a new one based solely on her hammering on weight loss and exercise. There are days that I couldn't bike more than I already do. I could improve how I eat. I am going into menopause and my body seems to be my enemy more often than my friend.

I keep riding my damn bike and I keep walking a lot etc. I have a bad ankle and losing weight would relieve a lot of stress.

Anyway I get what you mean about how society and people can be so intrusive this way.

I think I just rambled a lot and made little sense. Maybe I can synthesize it and come up with a better response lately.

Dear AG,

your post made me sad, I hear you and am going through the same in therapy. I am sad, because someone else must go through the same pain. Everybody is so smart about losing weight...really. That pisses me of also.

I hear you and I know exactly how you feel... Be pissed and you do not need to think they are concerned about your health...really. They should now you are adult and in a mass of information about weight loss they should now that you already know all about it.


for a flower

I mean a better response later...

The only good thing that has come out of my T dropping me is that I lost my appetite. Usually I eat out of stress but the opposite has happened this time. Even still I doubt I have lost an ounce. I don't weight myself these days.

I read this earlier today and just felt so angry on your behalf. Just so angry. I can see your BIL's heart in there somewhere and trying to do good, but it was lost. That whole weekend deal seems too traumatic for me - don't think I could handle it.

My H is slim and his weight hasn't changed in 30 yrs - mine changes each time my eyes see food, let alone eating it. He has no concept as he has a "thin person brain". He says - just don't eat as much, just give up sugar, just cut down etc etc.

Then he will do or say some highly triggering thing and negates everything. it is a real bummer when your H is the biggest trigger in your life.

Turtle: I lost a lot of weight quickly when my T termed me - it was amazing. But that was ages ago and I have eaten all that weight back on.

I don't think I can ever talk about this to my T as she is lovely, very slim, athletic and obviously has NO problems in life. So I am a bit envious of those of you who can discuss these issues openly with your T's.

But I know I have a brain/eating problem. I will get to it one day.

Somedays

Dear AG,

Just wanted to send some support your way and let you know how much it pains me to hear you had to go through that. Good intentions or not from your BIL, it doesn't take away from your right to receive the respect you deserve for having fully committed to your healing journey. Your body is just another stepping stone on that journey, and there is no reason to be badgered about it by someone who clearly doesn't comprehend what you are already bravely accomplishing!

You once again proved your grace and poise in the face of a trying situation. I am continually impressed with how well you handle yourself in spite of others treatment of you. I personally would have been either in the fetal position somewhere or arrested for pushing him down the stairs (mostly kidding... ) Seriously though, I hope he can at the bare minimum learn to not do things like that in front of everyone. That for some reason was a point that stood out to me as particularly inconsiderate.

If I'm taking anything away from the confusing mess of boundaries in therapy, one thing is the realization that I need to develop my own. I've never had them because they were trampled across as a child, but if I DID have them, they way your BIL handled that would have been a big crossing of it for me. I wonder if that fits anywhere in your feelings of anger too?

I have some tremendous hang ups with my body image and can imagine how angry you must feel. I've been known to actually crawl into bed and disappear from society for a few days at a time over the slightest negative comment about how I look. My father was very vocal about any "flaws" he noticed I had physically or otherwise, and it very much warped my perception of my appearance. I've struggled for years with various forms of self punishment over this.

Please know that you obviously have tremendous worth and value to so many. And that is the most beautiful kind of person there is.

Sending hugs, AH

OH AG, that’s just SO crappy! Weight problems are caused by such an incredibly complex amalgam of emotional and physical factors that for each of us individually deliver a different specific package. THE worst people to deal with in your (and my) case are people like your BIL: MEN who have RECENTLY lost weight. I’m putting those words in capitals for a reason. ALL research so far has shown that men have it so much easier to loose weight, mostly due to hormonal factors. Which unfortunately means women close to or in menopause face a hugely difficult task if they want to lose weight. More statistics: only about 5% (!!!) of people who lose weight at some point keep it off over a longer period of time, and off those 5%, most are men (doesn’t life suck sometimes!)!

I’m so glad you got through the shame more or less ok and your husband stood by you, but mostly that you got angry!

I think most of us start out eating too much because if offers us a sense of comfort we couldn’t get any other way. And when things get out of hand, we end up with another major issue on top of the original one(s), but causing loads of distress by itself. What I get all worked up about – and I’ve told you about this in a reply on your blog (where you know me as Marijke) – is weight issues being simplistically, homogenously, and exclusively being labeled as ‘psychological’. So jerks like you BIL can pat himself on the back and have the nerve to go lecture you. Where does he get off! I’m getting angry out of solidarity here .

My body and eating issues are things I’ve struggled with since childhood – I’m 44 years old now. They were originally caused by major unwantedness, emotional deprivation and abandonment within the context of a doomed and failed parental marriage and consequent dysfunctional home life. I am dealing with the emotional consequences of that in (and out of) therapy. As I grew larger, my body became a major issue in itself and has caused a very lonely life full of feelings of shame, failure, self loathing, …. anyone with these issues can complete the list.

7 years ago, I followed a 6 months outpatient treatment program for ED’s. I hated it. The only thing I carry with me, is the psychiatrist (a jerk) admitting that science is acknowledging more and more that ED’s have a very important genetic and physical factor AND that people with ED's show a greater level of intelligence and sensitive than the norm.

So it just pisses me off, nitwits like your BIL, telling a most lovable, highly intelligent, sensitive, compassionate, funny, brave, humble, eloquent, loving, persevering, wise and gentle person what to do. (Sorry Hollow, I borrowed your words, but I think it might do AG good to see them repeated )

Great big bear hugs from me.

Hey AG

To quote my T your weight is nobody's business except yours. Somehow society thinks it has a right to comment on people's weight and bodies.

I think when you have an abuse history eating is a source of comfort but there is also a desire to make oneself unattractive out of a need for self-protection that was not forthcoming from caregivers. Abuse can also make you feel betrayed by your body and it can seem like it is a huge enemy.

I have struggled at both ends of the weight spectrum and I grew up being constantly teased for being overweight. In fact my father and brother were embarrassed to be seen with me sometimes (and I was only 160ish and at almost 5"8 I was overweight but not morbidly obese). Then I lost 30 pounds and suddenly they were both happy to be seen with me anywhere. It's so appalling to have your worth derived from your weight or body or looks.

It is very good you have identified being angry at your dad and also your BIL. I hope you can keep traversing this difficult terrain with the support of BN and your friends here.

Hugs and love xxx

Nothing much to add that these wonderful people have not already said. Societal pressure on people who do not conform to beauty standards makes me bloody mad. And the born again, bootstrap mentality "I did it, so now I have no compassion for your position because you could too, if you just tried a little harder."

I also have a whole ranty, feminist diatribe I could vomit all over the screen but I'll spare you!

Is it wrong that I wanted to say "Eff you and the elephant you rode in on" to BIL?

(((AG))

I can only imagine how difficult that whole scene was for you to endure. It sounded incredibly painful.

quote:

Societal pressure on people who do not conform to beauty standards makes me bloody mad.

The reality of this makes me sick. It's the way we humans are. It's not just your BIL. He's just a product of our society. And it's not just beauty. It's wealth, job status, friends, family. You name it. We are a judgmental sort of animal. Whether or not it has its roots in survival mechanisms, who care? It's a brutal way to live and a brutal way to treat each other.


You KNOW what you went through. You KNOW the obstacles you've had to overcome. Every time you put yourself in a situation like that and allow yourself to feel that shame, you come that much closer to integrating and processing it and realizing the need to be kinder to yourself. The fear of facing who we are now because of what we didn't get as children will be less intense. You do not exist now without your past. I can see that as we age, others realize that as well. What is stuck in my head are the voices from the past, when I was younger and people weren't as psychologically sophisticated as they are becoming now.


What I struggle with now is just accepting that because I can't change it. I've tried very unsuccessfully for years and didn't do myself any favors. The most important question is what I think when I look in the mirror. The truth is that I am not happy with my weight. I don't feel good about myself. I'm finding, though, that loving myself and finding compassion for myself anyway, though, is the only way to fight off the shame. I'm not always successful but I just keep getting back on that horse, or elephant , as the case may be.


As I find more compassion for myself, I am finding more compassion for others. To be able to distinguish between the actors of the past and the actors of the present is so rewarding. As we all do, I have found that I have carried those resentments forward with me and held them against people who have had nothing to do with the hurt I experienced in the past. To be able to feel myself softening towards people who simply remind me of those who have hurt me is an awesome feeling. THAT is the BIG payoff of facing all the shame we feel about ourselves. It's not simply pain for pain's sake. At the end of it all, to be able to just go out there and live and love and just be. There isn't anything better than that.

Feeling a little emotional about it all this morning.

(((((((((AG))))))))))

Hard to write right now. Hugs, though!

((((((AG)))))

I am never sure what gives people the right to comment on another's weight, like it has anything to do with anything, or anything to do with anybody else for that matter

If it helps, it's not just being overweight that attracts comments; I am probably just verging on underweight and also receive comments about how I need to eat more .....so I guess you can't win.

Just remember that these people are very shallow, anybody who can't look beyond someone's appearance has the problem NOT you.

Remember you are a beautiful person inside and out

starfishy

amen, that! i know that you are a beautiful person! i've seen it on numerous occassions, and it's just too bad for your BIL that he doesn't know a f*cking thing about you! cuz he's the loser here, in more ways than one!

to all you wonderful people, thank you all for your understanding and wonderful affirmation. I am working on replies to everyone but worked until past 11 and am running out of steam and so many of you so generously responded that I am probably only half way through responding.

So what I have so far is below and I'll be back tomorrow to respond to everyone else. For those of you still waiting to hear from me, thank you for your patience!!! You guys are the best, you have no idea how much this helped.

***************************************
Thank you so much to everyone for responding. I really just needed to vent but I really appreciate all the understanding and affirmation . Feeling much better today. I am sorry to be so late responding but I am working 3 PM- 11 (or later as needed ) shifts for the next few weeks as we are putting out a beta release and their is a licensing bottleneck for a program we all need, so I shifted my hours to get access.

(((Jillann))) Thank you. I am sorry that you saw people whispering, I know that does wonders for me. It's hard to work on accepting your body when other people are telling you its not acceptable. Although I do want to say that most of the weekend really wasn't too bad (especially considering it was a family reunion and at least my husband's family is talking to me. ) But yeah, that whole "just do it" thing gets old. I am doing it, just not fast enough for some people. One thing I have really appreciated is that my husband and I are lending each other a lot of support and space to each go about this in our own way. And i do know he made the comments out of concern, he's just so oblivious. Kind of glad I got angry instead of just ashamed.

((Hollow)) You've met my BIL? You described him to a T! Insecure and needing validation nails it nicely. It really helped that you got that. I got quite the laugh out of reading what you wrote. And Hollow, thank you for your incredibly kind description of me, but I truly think you could benefit from a few hours in my company to gain a more balanced view of me. Or a 15 minute discussion with my husband (although it would probably only take five. )

(((TN))) Thanks for understanding, I so appreciate your understanding, and your plans for my BIL. I am sorry about dh and ds, the DH and I did that struggle for years and I know how painful it can be. I was VERY glad to read that things went well today with your T. Glad you gave him what for and that he once again proved his sterling character by owning his stuff and staying non-defensive. Thank you for your belief in me.

quote:

"Hey, you're bigger than you should be but it's ok, I like you anyway...just do your best." Pressure/shame removed! How much easier might it be to get on top of the issues if that was the universal attitude.

Monte, you are a VERY wise woman. I truly think that an attitude like that could make a huge difference. Unfortunately, the most important person that needs to have that attitude is me. I think I truly judge myself more harshly than almost anyone else. But I'm working on it. That's part of why it bothered me so much, I really do NOT need any help shaming myself, thank you very much. I've had a lifetime of practice. And I totally understand the yo-yo. I have almost never been a normal weight, but I have lost significant amounts at times only to later put it back on. I am feeling extraordinarily powerless in the face of food. In fact, I really have been focusing ore on just paying attention to what I am doing so I can learn what triggers me, rather than modifying my eating. Trying to approach this differently. My eating instinct is also messed up, as almost any feeling triggers my need for food. It's so much safer than people is the mantra somewhere deep in my psyche. Not to mention that the thought of being physically attractive, especially in a sexual sense is beyond terrorizing. Did I mention how much fun therapy has been lately? Thank you Monte, I aways appreciate how thoughtful your responses are.

(((Cat))) My T and I have talked about it many times; neither of us in very big on believing in coincidences. I truly think that things come up when I need them to come up. Thank you for understanding, I have appreciated how much I have been able to learn talking through these issues with you, that its not really about what my body looks like, its about the fact that I have one at all.

(((Turtle))) Again, have you met my BIL? "Needs to learn some basic social skills" is the perfect prescription for him. I am sorry you also struggle with this and I am not doing nearly the level of physical activity you are, that must be so frustrating. I will admit that being in my 50s and hitting (perio)menopause has definitely made it more difficult. And I'm with you about the doctor's. I actually found a new GYN at one point because I wasn't going often enough because I dreaded the weight talk. Part of what makes this all so frustrating is that in so many ways my self-care is so much better than it has ever been. All my medical tests, exams and dental work are up to date. I am having less dental problems. My asthma has been really well controlled and I am getting sick so much less often (enough that DH has commented about it several times). So I know I am making progress, then I look at the weight not budging and it can feel like it invalidates all my progress. Still working on it...

((Ninna))) Thank you so much for posting. And I totally agree about being pissed. I wanted to paraphrase Winston Churchill too him. "Someday I will be a lower weight, but you'll still be a horse's @$$!" But I have known him a long time and know how truly clueless he is. It's really about learning to trust myself so that someone speakng that way doesn't derail me. Thank you for the flower.

quote:

The only good thing that has come out of my T dropping me is that I lost my appetite.

Turtle, I am a stress eater so I totally get it, but hon, that is a sucky weight loss program. I'm so sorry for what you're going through, thanks for reaching out to me despite the deep pain you are in.

((Muff)) You and BN, you both get SO happy when I get angry. But seriously, I truly did see it as a good thing that I both got angry and knew that it should be directed at my father. I let you know how big the dentonation is.

((Somedays)) I've been married to DH for over 27 years and I would have gone insane if I hadn't learnt to deal with his family. (The upside is that I always return from these things VERY grateful I got him. ) I usually can let this stuff roll off a lot easier, but my nerves on this issue are runnign very close to the surface right now. We really only get together once a year these days, so I hated to not go. Thank heaven we did get a hotel room so i had space that night. My H didn't really develop weight or health problems until the last 8 years or so. I don't like him having problems but have to admit that it has helped him to be more compassionate with me. I have been quite proud of how we have learned to give each other space on this issue. I should be, we busted hump to learn how. I promise I will never make you go away for a weekend with my in-laws, ok? You're safe from that at least.

quote:

I don't think I can ever talk about this to my T as she is lovely, very slim, athletic and obviously has NO problems in life. So I am a bit envious of those of you who can discuss these issues openly with your T's.

SD, it's been an uphill battle. My T is really fit and leads a very active life (skiing, hiking, biking, swimming, jet-skiing) and for a long time I wouldn't go near this because I am so convinced he must be sitting there disgusted by me. He's been really good, but it is excruiating discussing this with him. But I know I need to. It's taken so very long.

love to all, AG Good night!

((((AG)))) we can't choose our family - blood or in laws/outlaws - you have many 'other' people who think of you as 'family' and really care about you and for you and don't give a flying 'f@$k" about your size only about the size of your heart!!!
TRY to gentle with yourself and BREATHE my friend!
s M

TW*** Discusses ED’s, food and weight

AH,
Thanks so much for understanding and for wanting to push my BIL down some steps. (mostly kidding ) And you’re right, one of the reason I have so appreciated BN’s boundaries is that he has provided me with an up close look at how they function and how to set them. But as for my BIL learning anything, no holding of breath here... I am sorry that you had to experience that with your dad. My memories of my dad were of him telling me I wasn’t attractive so I would feel like I had no where else to go (gosh, that was a fun session! ) so I know how much it hurts when the person who should be affirming you is tearing you down instead. Here’s to both of us gaining a clearer self-image.

((Draggers)) Thanks for understanding. It’s funny you mentioned your ex’s comments leading to secret binging. I wanted nothing more than to go buy a giant chocolate cake, there was definitely a “WHO THE HELL DO YOU THINK YOU ARE, TELLING ME HOW TO EAT?” reaction. Hmm, and you’re right, losing the weight didn’t stop my BIL from being an arsehole either. . I really appreciate the affirmation for my feelings and my anger.

quote:

i’m fat and im alive..........bring on the maltesers.

Move on over sweetie, we can share! LOL

((Shaman)) It’s been great to see you posting and thanks so much for the support. This did highlight something really positive. My husband has been dieting and has lost 57 lbs. I really am very happy for him ands proud of him because he has been working really hard. But we have much healthier boundaries these days, so I have been able to respect and support his efforts and he is doing the same about my going at this through working on issues in therapy and not trying too hard to work on my actual eating habits. There has been room for both of us and our needs. Having my BIL react that way made me appreciate my DH even more (there was time when this would NOT have been true. )

Thanks for your anger on my behalf. The truth is that he has no concept of how complex the issue is for me. And I appreciate you sharing your experiences and knowledge about this issue. Not to mention repeating Hollow’s words, for some reason I do not get tired of hearing that.

GE,
I knew I liked your T for a good reason. He’s right.

quote:

I think when you have an abuse history eating is a source of comfort but there is also a desire to make oneself unattractive out of a need for self-protection that was not forthcoming from caregivers. Abuse can also make you feel betrayed by your body and it can seem like it is a huge enemy.

That’s it exactly! I have a very ambivalent relationship with my body, food is a comfort, a coping mechanism, a protection and a punishment all rolled up into one. Sorry for how your brother and father behaved. It’s a terrible thing to think that love depends on our looks. Especially when your staring at the back end of life the way I am, no one’s looking as good as they once did. I am very glad that I have BN, he’s been truly amazing through this. Much love back.

((Mallard)) LOL, loved, loved, loved your whole rant. Especially “and the elephant you rode in on” as “the horse you rode in on” is one of my favorite phrases when angry. Yeah, I am tired of people telling me I don’t have focus or willpower. I work full-time, have two children, volunteer on a crisis line, train other people who volunteer for the crisis line, write a blog, participate here, and keep up a steady stream of coorespondence. Oh and I make my own curtains. That is not the accomplishment list of a lazy or weak woman. So yeah, people can go do something anatomically impossible to themselves. Thank you!

((Leise)))

quote:

You KNOW what you went through. You KNOW the obstacles you've had to overcome. Every time you put yourself in a situation like that and allow yourself to feel that shame, you come that much closer to integrating and processing it and realizing the need to be kinder to yourself.

You know, that was the most useful thing that came out of this, was that when the shame hit I knew what it was and stayed with it, and talked back to it. I played back in my head things my T has said to me about shame and worked hard to hang on to the fact that I am more than my weight.
And I understand the struggle to accept. The shift I am working on is from “I am fat, therefore I am worthless and can not be loved. I need to lose weight so I will be acceptable” to “I am loveable and worthwhile right now as I am, weight and all, but since I love myself and I think I would feel better and be healthier if I ate better and lost weight, I want to do so, knowing that this is just a small part of who I am that I want to change.” It’s such a small shift, but its a terribly long journey to make that shift.

quote:

To be able to feel myself softening towards people who simply remind me of those who have hurt me is an awesome feeling. THAT is the BIG payoff of facing all the shame we feel about ourselves. It's not simply pain for pain's sake. At the end of it all, to be able to just go out there and live and love and just be. There isn't anything better than that.

Totally agree, Liese. The truth is that my BIL is really driven by the fact that my FIL lived in perpetual fear and withheld his approval. He is 63 and still trying to be good enough for his father, who died seven years ago. He is driven so hard in so many ways of which he is not aware. That calls for a lot of patience with him. It’s finding that sweet spot of compassion for him, but protection for me that I am striving to find.

((((Yaku))) Thank you so much for responding despite posting being so hard. I truly do appreciate it. Many hugs back!

(((Starfishy))) Wonderful to hear from you!! And right?!? you can’t win. It’s really been helpful to have some relationships with people who struggle on the other end of the weight spectrum. It’s too easy to slip into the “gosh, wish I had your problem!” attitude. But in really talking, you can see it’s the same problems just presenting a different way. That’s actually what helped me realize that my real problem was with having a body not the body I have. The only time I comment on people’s appearance is to mention something positive, as in a nice hairstyle, or outfit. Thank you for thinking I am beautiful. You know, its one thing I love about the forum. The people that post here are all very beautiful in my mind. There’s something to be said for not being able to see someone’s looks. But I am also working on that attitude, because I do really need to recognize my body as part of myself, just as much as the rest of me. Ah, work in progress.

(((CD))) Thank you for your fierce protectiveness of me, it is always appreciated. And the kindness of how you see me.

(((Morgs)))) To quote my husband “hey, let’s be serious, if we weren’t related would we really choose to hang out with him for a day?” LOL And the truth is, my BIL really does care about me in his own way, he’s just not all that mature. And don’t worry I am breathing. But I love when you remind me, it makes me feel loved, so thank you.

AG