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I'm really struggling...

Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
But I'm having a really tough time posting about it. I'm back to feeling very confused about therapy and how I'm feeling and the longing for my T and the whole shebang.

There's been a LOT going on, in therapy and on the inside, and two things happen. When I feel needy, I pull back. And when so much is going on inside I tend to look more inward. And I know I talked about this happening at Christmas but it's continuing and I didn't notice it until a friend pointed it out.

I was really at a point where I had seen so much progress that I was actually thinking that I was "better" (a thing which really doesn't exist; we just learn to deal with things better). Then the "mom" stuff reared its head, and I know from long experience that there is some very diffcult painful work ahead. And it's going to hurt like hell. I feel a little worn out at the thought of having to do more emotionally intense, confusing work. It's like I'm struggling enough that I'm not capable of giving as much. And I don't want to feel it, so without even realizing it, I'm shutting down and for some reason it's hard to talk about things when you're shut down. Smiler

My relationship with my T has me really confused right now too. Which feels so wrong after the session I just had giving him my gift. But I think that's part of the problem. My last several sessions with him have been really amazing and I'm feeling very close and like, finally, I get that the relationship is a real one. I don't think I was able to see for a long time my T's depth of caring and involvement or even how much he liked me. And now I'm realizing it. But in some ways, feeling like this is making it even worse I can't have more. You know when I thought I was the world's largest pain in the tush and he just wanted me gone, the boundaries didn't matter as much (although I still railed against them) beause in some ways it didn't feel like they were keeping me from anything.

At a recent session, we were actually discussing the boundaries and my T told me that sometimes the boundaries can be frustrating for the T also. That they get to meet fascinating people but are limited in what they talk to them about because the therapy has to stay about the patient. He was very careful and I don't believe he said anything wrong but somehow knowing that maybe I'm not the only one that doesn't like the limits hurts even more.

A month or so back, we had a session in which we discussed my attraction to him and my erotic feeligns. And one of the things that came out during that session was my reluctance to have any sexual feelings, they all feel wrong. And that to want anyone to desire me in that way is also wrong. My therapist told me that this was a chance to experience a healthy sexual response in a safe relationship. Which I really believe this is a safe one. Since then, I think I have been allowing myself to feel what I feel about my T without judging it. And I have come to recognize that while it would be very wrong to act on it, the response, in and of itself, is a healthy one. This is a man who I find physically attractive, who has been there for me emotionally in a way no one else has been, including my own parents. Is it really so suprising that I might want to express my feelings that way? Which I think has all been a good thing but has made me more aware of the feelings so to speak.

Then at our last couples session, where to be honest, I was already having a difficult time, because the man was looking six different kinds of fine, my husband suddenly decides to bring up sex. I now hold the world record in longest blush ever. It was just lovely discussing the subject with all three of us in the room. My T was discussing how closeness and intimacy, enjoying each other's company, and a deepening relationship will lead to expressing it physically. Which I totally got, but that emotional sequence is in many ways what has been happening emotionally between my T and I, and although I get it rationally, emotionally it's hard to understand that in one case it leads there and in the other case, you're forbidden to go there.

I had put in an emergency call to my T and he called back after a longer gap than usual from his cell phone and it sounded like he was in a car. We talked for several minutes (I was feeling scared about not being up to facing the grief over my mother) and got off the phone. Ten minutes later, he called again, but when I answered and said hello several times, no one replied. While I wrestled with the temptation of having an open line when he didn't know about it, I could hear his voice over the radio and what sounded like the voice of a woman responding although I couldn't understand what either of them was saying. My conscious won and I hung up the phone and I sent an email to my T so that he knew it happened. I was glad that I did the right thing and hung up, but it once again really rubbed the fact in my face that I am such a small part of his life. That he talked to me for a few minutes, then went back to his "real" life and to the woman who can have all the things with him I can't.

And I'm really confused, I'm having a hard time sorting out what's from the past and what' the present. I do believe that so much of the intensity of my feelings and longings are about what I didn't get in the past and my need to mourn them. I mean, that's what its been about so far and I have been healing due to the mourning. But I also think that as the relationship has deepened that I am also engaging on a more on an adult level. Which I guess is good since part of the point here is to grow up and get independent. But it's confusing feeling all this about him and not being sure which feelings are about today and which about my past.

And although I thought that I had safely put it away, getting closer is triggering my need to run again. That allowing myself to get this close will only bring pain. And it's really ringing true because part of my pain is because of getting closer, although I realize that the dynamic I experienced before and that I fear now is much differnt from what is actually transpiring between my T and I.

And last but not least, we had a mixup about appt times and I'm waiting to hear from him so I don't know WHEN my next appt is.

I really need to see my T and sort this out.But I feel like a disastrous mess and sometimes the thought of going near him again and feeling all this is just sucks. Part of the reason that I don't want to go near him is because I know he'll provide what I need to walk through the pain. But right now that doesn't sound so appealing. I just feel like the world's biggest basket case.

I KNOW I've made progress, but right now it feels like it's all just been a delusion on my part. So that's how I'm feeling in all my glory. Although I'm not losing sight of what I need to do to heal and knowing that experiencing this pain is necessary to healing but it's one thing to know that and another to do it. Now, don't you feel better about how you're handling things? Smiler

I'm glad that no matter how scary and overwhelming it can feel,that I have people I can talk to and admit feeling this overwhelmed. Thanks.

AG
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justme 2justme 2Member
AG,
Please know that we all care about you even when you are having a difficult time and may not quite be yourself. It's ok, we're here and we want to share with you and listen to you the way you do for us. While we miss your insightfulness when you are feeling low, it is ok, because we know you'll return, and it helps us to see that we ALL have good and bad times too and hopefully someday we can master this the way you have. Ok, I'm not sure that came out quite the way I was thinking. It is supposed to sound consoling and good, so if you feel other wise well, feel free to use the slapper on........PL Big Grin(I don't know I had to come up with someone besides me she's always coming after me with that thing...Sorry PL, no hard feelings? Wink ) Ok you guys know I'm just kidding right?

Anyway AG, Your progress is not a delusion! I know that therapy is not a linear process, but I think the fragments do come in layers and just when it feels like we accomplish something and we're on top of it, that is when the deeper stuff bubbles to the surface. It's like you always say, it's because of the progress we have made that allows us to be strong enough to handle the more difficult emotions that come up now. I know it is exhausting because it feels like we barely have time to take in air before we go under again. Thankfully our T's make such good life lines though.

Some of the best advice I see in this post is in your own words:
quote:
Although I'm not losing sight of what I need to do to heal and knowing that experiencing this pain is necessary to healing but it's one thing to know that and another to do it.

That's so painfully true! I hear you, believe me I do.

So hold tight, you'll get through this valiantly too.

In the wise words of Red Green, "Remember, we're pulling for you. We're all in this together."
JM
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
AG

I know you will get through this because you are courageous and brave and you don't give up. As Jm said, you are ALWAYS here for all of us, so let us be here for you. I'm happy that you are able to verbalize these feelings to us and I hope it gives you some relief to know that we have all been and we do understand.

JM

Thanks for making me the sacrificial lamb!! Big Grin That's ok, I'll take a slap for you any time. But, only if I can say this: Razzer Razzer Razzer Razzer
(Thanks for the out loud belly laugh!)

PL
wynnewynneMember
quote:
At a recent session, we were actually discussing the boundaries and my T told me that sometimes the boundaries can be frustrating for the T also. That they get to meet fascinating people but are limited in what they talk to them about because the therapy has to stay about the patient. He was very careful and I don't believe he said anything wrong but somehow knowing that maybe I'm not the only one that doesn't like the limits hurts even more.


That last would really start to drive me nuts, to be honest. Feeling like _they_ were chafing at boundaries would make me _hate_ them. I know there are some folks here who get 'em and like 'em *eyes the strange people* :P but I'd really start to look askance at boundaries after this.

Many thanks for letting us know where you're at and sharing, AG. It really does help to know that everybody's in this place sometimes. I'm sorry you're there, though! It must really suck to think you've got things figured and then have to "go back." Even if, as you've said, it's not really back.
openwindowsopenwindowsMember
quote:
At a recent session, we were actually discussing the boundaries and my T told me that sometimes the boundaries can be frustrating for the T also. That they get to meet fascinating people but are limited in what they talk to them about because the therapy has to stay about the patient. He was very careful and I don't believe he said anything wrong but somehow knowing that maybe I'm not the only one that doesn't like the limits hurts even more.


AG -

This is what happened with me and my son's T. I told her about the transference and we had a really good discussion about it. Then the next week I asked her if she would want to be friends had we not met this way. She said "definitely, yes," in a way that made me think she really meant it. She said a few other things that made me think she wished it could be different too. It really felt good to hear that, but two days later I was reeling from it. Instead of making me feel good about myself it made me mad that such boundaries existed. That's when the transference really became an obsession and I think was right before I posted here the first time.

This roller coaster of emotions is what really is throwing me for a loop. And while it's good to know I'm not the only one going through it, I hope for a more smooth ride for all of us.

OW
riverriverMember
quote:
I asked her if she would want to be friends had we not met this way. She said "definitely, yes," in a way that made me think she really meant it. She said a few other things that made me think she wished it could be different too. It really felt good to hear that, but two days later I was reeling from it. Instead of making me feel good about myself it made me mad that such boundaries existed.


Can I ask you, OW, that if she had said "no" or "probably not," or even "I don't know" - would've you been any less hurt? I am sure T's get asked this question all of the time - and I am sure that there is no right answer unless down the road you can at least hold onto that this person whom you felt so connected to also felt & enjoyed the connection too. If you can take this and realize that this means you have so much potential to connect with other people and have things to offer them that they will cherish, well, then I hope you can see that you have the capacity to have many more deep, significant relationships in your life than you do at present. And like HB said, (which hits it on the nose I think):

quote:
it was a time of really strong feelings that often weren't fulfilled. And the only thing worse than them not being fulfilled was them being fulfilled! But in the process of experiencing them we grew in confidence and learnt how to live and feel.


HB put this so beautifully that I can't really say much more than that.

quote:
My T was discussing how closeness and intimacy, enjoying each other's company, and a deepening relationship will lead to expressing it physically.


I am so starting to get to this place with my T and it is really disconcerting. This is what finally made me bring up the obvious lack of emotional intimacy in my marriage with my husband because it is such an amazingly powerful turn-on. I can see why and how people have "emotional affairs." I can also see myself easily falling into something like this as a convenient loophole around good ole Mr. Conscience. Intimacy is a heady experience that makes us vulnerable to being deeply hurt - I am really glad that we all seem to have trustworthy T's!
wynnewynneMember
quote:
And I'm really confused, I'm having a hard time sorting out what's from the past and what' the present. I do believe that so much of the intensity of my feelings and longings are about what I didn't get in the past and my need to mourn them. I mean, that's what its been about so far and I have been healing due to the mourning. But I also think that as the relationship has deepened that I am also engaging on a more on an adult level. Which I guess is good since part of the point here is to grow up and get independent. But it's confusing feeling all this about him and not being sure which feelings are about today and which about my past.


I just wanted to post that it's really useful to hear about the progress you've made, where you're able to open up and care about folks and have this kind of conflicted feeling. I know it probably doesn't sound awesome to hear, since conflicted feelings and this confusion probably sucks, but it sounds really like you've got a deep relationship that's meaningful and confusing and full of feeling - that is, a good, solid, strong relationship.

/envy Smiler
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
quote:
You know how it feels to me? A bit like puberty, it is that space between having the needs of a child and being a woman. So if we think back to those choatic years of puberty, it was a time of really strong feelings that often weren't fulfilled. And the only thing worse than them not being fulfilled was them being fulfilled! But in the process of experiencing them we grew in confidence and learnt how to live and feel.


HB,
Thank you, you nailed it! That's exactly what I feel like, an adolescent. And it's helping me remember why I don't want to be 17 again for all the money in the world. Big Grin But it's that same mixture of I'm scared, I'm insecure, I'm mad at you because I feel this way about you. Get away from me, do you like me? I really want you; I need my space. Thank you, your insight is helping make more sense of this.

quote:
his is what finally made me bring up the obvious lack of emotional intimacy in my marriage with my husband because it is such an amazingly powerful turn-on. I can see why and how people have "emotional affairs." I can also see myself easily falling into something like this as a convenient loophole around good ole Mr. Conscience. Intimacy is a heady experience that makes us vulnerable to being deeply hurt - I am really glad that we all seem to have trustworthy T's!


River,
I love how you always go to the heart of the matter (in all senses Smiler). It's the intimacy that is making this so hard. It's like I want to go towards my T because the intimacy is so inviting but what I really need to do is go towards my husband and learn to be as intimate with him. But it's a lot more work there because oh yeah, we have to pay attention to his needs too and in some ways, especially as pertains to the effects of the abuse, my T just understands so much better. I really struggle with feeling guilty because in some ways my relationship with my T is deeper and more intimate than my relationship with my husband. The truth is I would never have this deep and intimate a relationship with a man not my husband unless he were my T. And that seems like SUCH a thin line between right and wrong. As badly as I strive against the boundaries sometimes (and right now I feel like a screaming lunatic!) I am so grateful that I know my T takes his responsibility in this area very seriously and would never abuse his power. He promised me a long time ago that nothing would ever happen. That promise is the only thing that has allowed me to go so deep.

quote:
I know it probably doesn't sound awesome to hear, since conflicted feelings and this confusion probably sucks, but it sounds really like you've got a deep relationship that's meaningful and confusing and full of feeling - that is, a good, solid, strong relationship.


Wynne,
Thank you, I didn't think it was possible to see an upside to feeling this way, but you did. You're right, this may be painful and uncomfortable but I'm present, I'm aware of my feelings, I'm blessed enough to have somewhere to express them (thank you all!) and enough emotional involvement to make this sometimes scary, but also sometimes incredibly joyful. Those are so many things I wasn't capable of once. They may be painful and confusing right now but they're my feelings and I'm entitled to feel them. And grateful that I can. Thanks for finding the silver lining. Smiler

AG
J Jo (Guest)
AG

I read your original post and wanted to say that I have been in that kind of pain you are talking about. You even feel bad that you even talked to them for a minute or two. Like it rips the scab off and bleeds again.

And I know what you mean that it hurts to know that you are not the only one wanting your T's attention etc. Those things hurt me too.

But one thing I wanted to say was that I have heard before that it's not good to do couple's counseling with your own personal therapist. I am not sure your whole situation or whatever so if I have misunderstood it please disreguard. But the reason it's not a good idea is that it can be very awkward as you described for you and/or your husband. I was always told by my past Ts that if I wanted couple's counseling it was better to get a T that was neutral to both of us.

Again I am not sure if I am helping or hurting or what but just wanted to add that.
openwindowsopenwindowsMember
quote:
Can I ask you, OW, that if she had said "no" or "probably not," or even "I don't know" - would've you been any less hurt?


River - I'm pretty sure I would have been devastated by any other answer. It really was the best answer she could have given, especially since I really believe she was sincere. And thank you, I've never looked at it quite that way before, but I guess maybe she saw something worth liking. Now if I could just learn to let other people see, I'll be in business.

AG - the way you continue to work with the highs and lows never ceases to amaze me. I know you probably realize it but there's really nothing for you to feel guilty about. I don't think it's a one or the other situation. If your T wasn't around, would you be able to go towards your husband more easily? Or is your relationship with your T helping you be able to move closer to your husband?

OW
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
quote:
If your T wasn't around, would you be able to go towards your husband more easily? Or is your relationship with your T helping you be able to move closer to your husband?


OW

Good point for me to think about. As I was reading AG's post, so much of it rang true for me. I am way more emotionally intimate with my T than anyone else I know. Especially my husband. Vulnerability is a HUGE issue for me. But, the intimacy that I have with my T and the risks I take with her, have helped me to be more open to my husband and it has really changed our relationship for the better. My T is helping me create those patterns in my brain that tell me it is ok to show your emotions and feelings to those you trust and they won't judge you. Of course, I've only made baby steps on this, but I know my husband has noticed that something is different about me, and he likes it. I've lived all my life with this fear and the only variable is therapy with my T, so I know it is my relationship with her that has improved my emotional intimacy with my husband. And as AG said before, emotional intimacy can really be a turn on for other things. Smiler

PL
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Woodensoul,
Thank you so much for being concerned about me, I know how scary it can be to point something like that out to someone and I appreciate that you took the chance for me. I know that many people, including a lot of therapists believe that you should not individually work with someone, you also see for marital counseling. We kind of backed up into this situation and its working well for us, but the reason that it is has been the fact that my husband, T and I have been very open about how we all feel about it and what the possible problems are. And my T has been doing this for 30 years and is a really gifted therapist, he's got a very grip on what he can deal with.

My husband actually saw my T for individual therapy for a few years and when we started having problems, we decided to see his therapist because my husband trusted him (which doesn't come easily to either of us) and I had met him a few times and felt comfortable working with him. At the time I was still working individually with my first therapist. About 8 months after starting the marital counseling, my first T retired. At that time I brought up coming to see my present T on an individual basis in a couples session. My husband essentially said he was very uncomfortable about the idea (a very reasonable reaction I thought) and my T thought it wasn't a good idea. So I decided to see how I did without individual counseling for awhile. While working with our T on our marriage I developed an attraction to him, which I ignored for a while, but eventually it got to the point that it was driving me nuts. After tracking down some info on transference and erotic attachment, I decided to tell my T so I told my husband that I wanted to go in alone, and I went to my T and told him how I feel. As soon as I told him how I felt about him and got a wonderful accepting response, a lot of stuff started coming up. Its kind of complex, because my "run away you're getting too close" response, that I was totally NOT aware of kicked in, but eventually my husband, T and I all talked again and my husband felt a lot more comfortable with me seeing my T individually because our marriage was in much better shape by then so there was less chance someone would have to get the T in a divorce. Big Grin Although actually one thing we did agree to was that if things went south, my husband got him. Provided even more motivation to work on my marriage. And my T sees my work as being part of the marital therapy, more on that below. So I definitely agree that this could be an extremely problematic situation, but I think we're all handling it well, and I've made a phenominal amount of progress working with my T. Again, though, thanks for asking.


quote:
If your T wasn't around, would you be able to go towards your husband more easily? Or is your relationship with your T helping you be able to move closer to your husband?


OW,
You are one smart hombre! Actually what you said is the exact reason my T agreed to work with me individually. When he recognized that I had attachment issues, he also realized that they were directly connected to the problems I was having in my marriage. My husband and I would move closer, but then that would scare us, so we do something, even fight, so we could move back and feel safer. And our relational patterns were reinforcing some painful patterns from our childhoods. So in couples counseling my T has worked with us to sort those out and become conscious of what we were doing and how we were reacting so we could change it. And he started working with me to resolve the attachment issues so i could actually have a close relationship. He once told me that it was really good that I realized I needed a relationship to have a relationship.

It's very true, as my relationship has grown with my T, I've learned that moving closer can be a good thing, so I've learned to move closer to my husband.

Actually I didn't need to write that last bit, you can just read PL's comments above. Big Grin

AG
J Jo (Guest)
Hi AG,

How are you feeling today? I have to say that you are brave. The way you are facing these issues so boldly is a real inspiration. I know how difficult it is to admit to your T that you are attracted to them. I have done that in the past and I always felt that I had to brace myself for what was to come. So far I have never had a T abuse that knowledge. Anyway I am glad that you saw that my inquiry was out of concern for you. I can only imagine how you felt during that session with the longest blush on earth! For me I have a hard time fighting feelings of humiliation etc. My pride gets in the way of therapy sometimes. BUt I see you really laying it out and learning to trust. IN that sense you are so brave. I need to do that more.

I have been reading these books that are helping me with opening up not only to my T but to myself as well. Can we recommend books here?

Anyway it's called "The places that Scare you" by Pema Chodron. She is a buddhist nun who is amazing in the sense that she brings these concepts across in such an understandable way. Her books are easy to read compared to most other buddhist literature out there. She guides you on how to love yourself.
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
Hi WS,
Sorry I didn't respond yesterday, I was in a really difficult place and went into a real meltdown which resulted in calling my T. But I'm feeling much better because when I called him he told me he was about to call me because he had a cancellation today, so I just had a session with him and he helped to sort alot out.

We talked about all of my struggles with my relationship with him and he was able to recognize how moving closer and having a more authentic relationship could get scarey and then we were able to look at how some really intense feelings from my past were getting triggered by what was going on in our relationship. I really appreciate that I can talk to him about anything, including how I feel about him and he understands and accepts it, while keeping very clear boundaries. I feel so safe with him and safety has been something I have so rarely felt.

I may be playing hide and seek for ahwile because we're starting to work on my feelings about my mom which feel more complicated and painful than those surrounding my father and come with a strong "you have to go hide and stay away from everyone" component that I think I'll be wrestling with for awhile, so thanks for asking how I'm doing.

And just for the record, yes, its hard for me to talk about my feelings but a lot easier for me too because my therapist is ALWAYS very accepting and understanding, not to mention encouraging about what I talk about. He keeps telling me that coming and talking about my feelings about him and our work is how the work is getting done.

Thanks for the recommendation on the book (and you're definitely allowed to do that here. We've actually had threads dedicated to discussing books that we've all read), I want to check it out.

AG
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
quote:
I have a much easier time helping other people than accepting help.


AG

Yo! You talkin' 'bout me? I swear you must be listening in my sessions! I have said this sentence more times than I can count!

ASK for help? What? I'm way too strong to do that! After all, what would everybody think of me?

Hmmm....guess I'd better get working on this. I want to get better wich' ya. Smiler

PL
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
quote:
So often when i read your posts i think what a wonderful mom you must be.

HB

I really appreciate your kindness. I have to say though, you just hit on the "heart of the matter." I'll take credit for 2 out of 3 kids, but the third is what has caused some of my trauma. My T is constantly pointing out all the good things I have done, but my list of guilt is growing longer by leaps and bounds. She gave me a good pep talk today when she called me back, but that will only calm my fears for a short time. They will come up again very soon.

About the asking for help thing. I am getting a little better at asking my T for help and hopefully I will be able to transfer that to my daily life. Each time I take the risk with her, she reacts so positively and my shield is dissolving slowly.

I have also received so much help from you and everyone else on this forum. I think we all realize how important our support of each other is. Smiler

PL
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
PL,
I would love the company! I have a feeling it may be a long trip but much easier with you along. Smiler

I think for me that when I'm meeting other people's needs was when I got good responses while expressing my needs often led to bad stuff.

When I'm doing for other people they'll let me stay because I'm useful but when I'm needy then I'm going to get sent away. My T is working hard on this one. Everytime I express a need he responds in such a different way than I express. And yes, this forum provides another really safe place to express my needs and get met with a different reaction than I express. Smiler

AG
russrussMember
AG,

I'm not sure how much help I can be here since I haven't experienced the kind of transference you have, but I think you're right in saying that it's totally normal for you to have intense feelings about someone who plays such a critical role in your life and does, in a lot of ways, provide you with what you never had as a child.

I think a lot of sexual attraction is also a most basic, elementary longing for a lost connection. Let's face it, interourse is that connection. And if you didn't get your need for this connection fulfilled as a child via cuddling, snuggling, playing and an overall, authentic close physical connection with at least one of your parents, that longing is going to persist and cause all sorts of trouble. I wouldn't be surprised if the longing you feel for your T is also that little kid who was emotionally starved and/or abused.

Hope you feel better soon.
Russ
openwindowsopenwindowsMember
PL -

I agree with HB - I can see the wonderful mom you must be when you post. I'm not talking about being one of those PPs (Perfect Parents) who have those well-behaved kids in the store or who would never understand why I can't get my son to take a shower or do his homework. I'm not talking about the soccer mom who takes her kids to all those games and is so supportive. I'm not even talking about those parents who help their kids with their homework and make sure they are doing well in school.

From your posts I can tell you care deeply about your son, despite the fact that he has difficult issues. Your love for him comes through in your concern for him, and even in the guilt you feel. I know how hard it can be, but I think he's lucky to have a mom that cares so much.

quote:
When I'm doing for other people they'll let me stay because I'm useful but when I'm needy then I'm going to get sent away.


AG - I could have written that myself. Do you have a hard time saying no, to the point of being overloaded?

OW
wynnewynneMember
quote:
When I'm doing for other people they'll let me stay because I'm useful but when I'm needy then I'm going to get sent away.


Whoa. Yeah, that's...familiar. Eerily so. The...um.... hm. *wanders off to ponder that notion*

I sometimes feel like I'm sitting in on the Advanced Class in Client Therapy, and I overhear stuff that I'll get to work on later. *trundles back to Beginner Class*
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
OW

Thank you. I pretty much needed that at this moment. My T tries to get me to realize this all the time, but I have a very hard head! When she called me back yesterday, we had this same discussion. I just need to believe it.


quote:
I think for me that when I'm meeting other people's needs was when I got good responses while expressing my needs often led to bad stuff.


AG

You probably know this, but I'll throw it out anyway. Have you read much about enneagrams? Of the 9 enneagram traits, I am absolutely a 2. And 2's give love to get love. 2's are caretakers and usually feel best when taking care of others. But, 2's can also feel like martyrs and resent others for not being able to read their minds and know what the 2's needs are. 2's "wish" a lot for their needs to be met, but are not good at asking for their needs to be met.

Well, this totally describes me. Just wonder if any of it sounds familiar to you or anyone else here.

PL
russrussMember
quote:
Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
When I'm doing for other people they'll let me stay because I'm useful but when I'm needy then I'm going to get sent away.
AG


hey AG,

this reminds me of something my T explained to me once. when i was a kid, i got nothing but neglect and scorn emotionally from my father and i was left out in the cold emotionally from my mother. but, i was a tiny little kid. i couldn't tell them, "i've had it with you people. i'm gonna go get a job and get my own place and be done with you."

no, i was a tiny little kid. as a result, i had NO choice but to enter into a kind of agreement with them, which was this; i put up with their lousy parenting and treatment of me and they will feed me, clothe me and give me a place to stay. and that's basically what i got.

i bet you had a similar - or far worse - "deal" you couldn't refuse.

one of the reasons i have such trouble being assertive and standing up for myself when it comes to people i care about goes back to this "deal." if i protest something that i feel is wrong or even say that i don't want to do something, they will tell me to leave or - basically - abandon me.

remember, a lot of these feelings live in the unconscious, which means that they are timeless. they don't 'fade away.' they're there until they are acknowledged, authenticated and honored. i think about the white-hot anger i have when my mother dishes out her guilt-tripping and emotional bullying (of course, all couched in 'i love you so much') and i'm reminded that despite how old these feelings are, they're just as potent as ever.

-Russ
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
PL,
I didn't know about enneagrams but I googled them ( Big Grin) and as soon as I have the time I want to take the assessment. My suspicion is that I'm a very solid two. And I come by the martyr part honestly, there's a long tradition in my family.
Thanks thought, it looks interesting.

OW,
What me? Not be able to say no? How could you possibly think that? Smiler Actually I'm much better than I used to be but still have a long way to go. Telling someone no too often feels like I'm going to be left or really be in trouble. A big part of learning boundaries for me has been learning how to say no AND feel ok about it. Methinks that in dealing with the stuff I'm heading into, I think some of this is going to come at a little stronger than it has of late.

And Russ, absolutely, that was the deal. In many ways I was used to meet my parents needs instead of having mine met. But that attachment drive is seriously strong so you stay (as much as you can, it's how I learned to disassociate and took what crumbs you could get and acted like they were a feast. I may sound a little bitter right now, forgive me, I'm in a lot of pain.

AG
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
Glad you guys are enjoying this. It was introduced to me by a T that I have an email relationship with. She knows it sounds a little strange, but believes that it is pretty accurate. I know for sure, that I am hugely a two.

I have another on for you if you are interested. The Five Love Languages by Dr. Gary Chapman. He believes that there are five different ways that people accept and respond to love from others. Each of us leans toward one of the five traits, although some people might have a little of more than one. If you can figure out the love language of those people who are important to you, then you can "speak" to them in a way that they are more receptive and helps to fill their "love tank." I knew what mine was the minute I heard it. There is also an assessment that you can take. I talked to my husband about it and now he has changed the way he acts around me or approaches things with me. It has really helped our relationship. Again, it may seem strange, but it is harmless and might be of interest to some of you. Smiler

PL
ladyofshallotladyofshallotMember
AG et al

Can't believe I missed this post!!
==============================================
I really struggle with feeling guilty because in some ways my relationship with my T is deeper and more intimate than my relationship with my husband.
==============================================
Oh how close to the mark this is. I live in a different city to my T and last week my husband travelled with me (on a different errand) and I couldn't tell him where I was going. I didn't lie...I just said I had a meeting which was true but all during the session I felt really weird like I was cheating on my husband...told my T of course and we both agreed it just mightn't be wise to share with my H just yet...but the feelings for my T feel misplaced and dis-located in some way. My hope is that they will return to their rightful owner in time and that that's the purpose of therapy in the first place and the attachment is necessary to enable us to really feel and not just 'report on' feelings.

AG you have been a source of enlightenment and wisdom and we all support you in your hour of disarray because we've all been there!!

L
Attachment GirlAttachment GirlAdmin
LOS,
Thanks so much for the support, it really helps to know that people are here pulling for me.

I totally get the feeling like you're cheating, I've talked to my T about it alot. But it really does work in a weird way, the more work I do with my T, the better my marriage has gotten, because the work I'm doing with my T is teaching me how to have an intimate loving connection without feeling threatened by it.

AG
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
I thought about starting a new thread but this title seems appropriate to how I've been feeling lately.

I haven't been posting much recently, although I've been reading. There has been so much going on in therapy lately I've just not felt articulate enough to write anything down. And reading everyone's posts and such wonderfully thought out and informative posts has deterred me from babbling about how I'm feeling lately. It just seems that everyone has this great insight into their therapy and their T's and I'm floundering around trying to figure out what the heck I'm doing.

A few weeks ago I was very upset with my T because of his accidental giving of my private email addy to a T that works with my son. I was pretty furious about that and I was even more hurt by his seemingly dismissive attitude when I phoned him after receiving the email. He actually thought the other T had that email addy and just didn't have it handy. It was truly a mix up and I did forgive him because I saw how truly upset and emotional he got when he thought he had hurt me. Seeing him being so genuine was actually healing for me and we went on, I felt, stronger than ever.

Which led to us addressing some trauma issues in subsequent sessions. I found this very upsetting and I have been having a hard time processing my grief over what I didn't have as a child. Mostly a safe place and protection. I had no one to run to when things got overwhelming for me and had to learn to deal with stuff alone. So for the last two weeks this has been the theme and in my last session I apparently re-experienced or re-lived a traumatic episode while in his office that I found it hard to come out of. I'm not even sure what happened except that I felt he was getting further away from me and I could not reach him. That this huge chasm opened up between us and all I heard was my mom telling me what a horrible rotten kid I was and that I could never do anything right and that I would never learn etc. He was trying to tell me that I was a good and generous person but I could not hear him or talk to him. It was very upsetting.

And so I spent the rest of the week falling apart at every turn. I was unable to handle the fallout from that session and I should have called him but I still have the issue of not being able to ask for help when I need it. You all know the drill...I'm being a huge bother and he will want to get rid of me. Thankfully, I had the support of a wonderful friend who got me through unti I saw him for a half session last night. It really helped and he reassured me and we spoke about perhaps changing the pacing of the session. But really, he did give me enough time to go back to reality, it was after I returned to work that it hit me and I fell apart. The grief I felt was just more than I could handle.

And so here I am. Not sure if I'm articulate but I am back posting and so I take that as a positive sign.

TN
puppylover 2puppylover 2Member
TN

I'm so glad you are back. I've been missing you and wondering where you have been.

You are completely articulate and it sounds like you have really been having a rough time.

quote:
It just seems that everyone has this great insight into their therapy and their T's and I'm floundering around trying to figure out what the heck I'm doing.


Ha!
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm floundering just like you. Yeah, saying stuff is one thing, but really BELIEVING it is another. Writing things here helps me because I really have to give some thought to what I am saying and that helps me to think through some of my feelings. That being said, today was a pretty good day and now all of a sudden I am missing my T. Frowner The queasy stomach, the nervous feelings, the thoughts of her consuming my mind, ai-yi-yi! Why? Who knows! This non linear journey has more peaks and valleys than I can sometimes stand.

It sounds like you have a really great friend for support and you managed to make it to the next session. Grief is so difficult and it seems like it just comes up and grabs us out of the blue when we are least expecting it. It sounds like you have a wonderful T who really cares about you.

Again, it's nice too see you back. Smiler

PL
openwindowsopenwindowsMember
quote:
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm floundering just like you.


Yep, I'm floundering too. One minute I know what I'm thinking, and the next I think I have it all wrong. And the next I think I had it right until I thought I was wrong again. And then maybe I was partially right, but said it wrong. Well, you get the picture.

Welcome back. It is good to see you posting again.

OW
justme 2justme 2Member
TN,
It is good to hear from you. I thought we were going to have to send the cavalry out for you too. Big GrinI am sorry things have been so intense. I know I go through periods where I can't articulate either as badly as I want to I just can't. So I know that is frustrating as well. But those feelings are so deep and primitive it is very hard to find deserving words for expression. Shrinklady once recommended that I try a series of long, low groans to help release the nervous system.

But I want to say that it is good to have you back and you WERE missed. It's hard not to worrry when people we care about disappear for a while.

(((((TN)))))
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
Thanks everyone for the nice words and for caring. No need for the cavalry JM. Yeah, it's just that sometimes what and how you are feeling defies expression in words. I'm not normally speechless LOL. I did in fact start a few posts and then deleted them because to me they made no sense, which was a reflection of how I was feeling. Nothing made much sense until I had time to think about, process it and talk again with my T.

So, no worries, I'm back and hope to stick around. Thanks.

TN
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