Ok, just finished talking to my T on the phone and cannot cope. I HATE THIS and I don't want to feel like this anymore!! What the hell am I doing to myself? I can't even remember what she said. Nothing feels ok right now. I am spinning like crazy. How can I possibly get through this? Why do we have to go through this? I am so ANGRY!!!!!!!!!

{{{{{{Seablue}}}}}}}

I'm sorry to hear you are having so much pain right now. Not only that, but you are giving yourself more pain, in beating yourself up for missing her. You said that your attachment issues are something you've hidden for a long time, so I'm glad you are opening up by posting about it here. I hope that your husband can be some support for you right now, too. Are you letting him know what's going on? Is there something he can do to ease the pain, even if it's just holding your hand, brushing or stroking your hair, rubbing your feet...something soothing?

You are certainly not an idiot for feeling this way, Seablue. Attachment has absolutely nothing to do with intellect. It is biological, and you are feeling it in your shaking and crying and feeling frozen. I am terribly sorry you are going through this, I know it hurts...but try not to make it worse by saying such mean things to yourself. Think of a child who is missing their mother...would you say such things to her? Or would you hold her and rock her and try to reassure her?

When you said you feel like the pathetic therapy patient in movies, it made me think of What About Bob. I wonder if that's the one you're thinking of? Because he really wasn't pathetic at all. Once he started opening up, he started losing his fear, and he turned out to be very likable and easily able to connect with people because he was so authentic and kind and playful.

Of course in Hollywood it all seems to happen in a couple of hours...real life takes so much longer...but you'll get there, Seablue. Treat yourself gently. Please post as much as you need to while your T is on vacation. We'll help you get through this.

Like Bob said: "Baby Steps"!

Hugs,
SG

quote:

My T is on vacation. I feel like a child that can't cope with life or like that really pathetic therapy patient that gets portrayed in movies. The feelings of abandonment and terror are indescribable at times. I have no words - I shake and cry and feel frozen. The only thing I can do is to sit wrapped in my blanket and wait for it to pass. It truly feels like I am a child in those moments.

I have been going through a range of feelings. The tantrum and the rational side are playing tug-o-war. Mostly, I have been stuck in the really unhelpful self-loathing spiral of - how did you let this get to the point where her going on vacation could do this to you - are you a complete idiot? WTF are you thinking? And so now what happens when therapy is over and you have to stop seeing her? Way to go, now not only are you pathetic in her eyes, but you are causing yourself all of this pain, too. Did you not learn anything from your childhood? YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO FEEL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did you steal these thoughts out of my brain??? And are we seeing the same therapist? Mine is on vacation this week too.

I could not get an appt last week either, the week before his vacation, because his schedule was full. So I am going to go 3 weeks without seeing him. I pathetically called him twice last week trying to get an appt if someone had cancelled. No such luck. He said I could call him and leave a message and he would call me back from wherever he is but I have resisted that urge so far. I really don't want to appear to be totally helpless and pathetic and bother him on his well deserved vacation.

I am wondering what I will tell him when he asks why I needed to get in so badly before he left. I know I should just tell him that I was obsessing about not seeing him for such an unbearable period of time, but again I am afraid. Afraid that I will scare him away with my neediness. Afraid that he will abandon me. We've been through this before. He has told me that he would not dismiss me as his patient. I would decide when we would end. (I have decided that that will never happen--I can't bear the thought.) But still those feelings of fear and insecurity bubble up again and again.

Only 6 more days until I see him. I hope I can make it.

emogirl

Oh, ((((((Seablue))))))!!! You poor thing!! I hate it when I feel like I am reading my own post (meaning I can feel your emotions as if they are my own because I know them so well)! I am so sorry that you are feeling so alone right now and just wanting your T. I saw mine only two 1/2 days ago and it feels more like it's been two weeks!! I've got two weeks until I see her again and I wonder how I'm going to make it if two days feel like two weeks? I feel your pain!!

Please be easy on yourself. I don't like that you're berating yourself for being so attached to your T. As painful as it is, it's good that you are experiencing this with a safe person. I have had several attachments in my past, and although most of them were healthy enough, the last one wasn't, and even though this one with my T is by far the most intense, I know it's the one that has the most potential to help me, even if it is EXTREMELY HARD!!!! You should be proud of yourself for opening up and being courageous enough to share your feelings with your T and to allow her to 'see' your attachment to her. It's hard, and I totally get the 'shame' stuff. That's what has held me back for so long with my T, and it still does more than is good for me. Yes, feeling so vulnerable IS a scary place to be.

I am wondering the same thing as SG; are you letting your husband know about this so he can support you? My T has stressed to me the importance of sharing the 'secret' and that getting it out there helps with the spinning as well as allows you to get the emotional support you need from significant others in your life. I really struggle with this, but I know it's really important.

I wish I could make time go faster for you. In the meantime, listen to the VM from your T, enjoy the blanket, rock in a rocking chair if you can (great suggestion, Itshardtosay), cry all the tears you need to, and allow yourself to feel the pain. I can't tell you how much I've cried over the past few months in pain and shame and worry. It has actually helped to get the sadness and the grief out over what I missed as a child, what I am looking for from my T, and what I ultimately can't get from her. It's tough stuff, but it's part of the process and it really does help. Take care of yourself, Seablue. And yes, keep posting to us so we can support you while you're grieving. ((((SB))))

Take care,
MTF

(((Seablue))) I can feel your pain! I am so sorry you are feeling this way. I know those feelings too well now. As a child I felt nothing really. What I did feel was swallowed and buried way down deep in my stomach. Never to really be felt again until I started therapy. Boy did that stink! Now those attachment feelings are there for my therapist too, but I try to realize that this is a friendship that may or may not last after therapy. The thought scares the hell out of me. For one thing, she would be the only person on this earth who would know everything there is to know about me. Very scary to me, but I know that I can trust her totally. She would never abandon me like the others. She is always there if I need her. The fact that she takes some time for herself, even though I hate it, she deserves it.
Sounds very logical right? I know. But then come the feelings - they hurt and they are scary. I think it's cool that she/he left you a message to listen too. Call it as many times as you need to. The voice will help to calm you, and you will feel like you are doing something good for yourself - making a connection.
I'm sorry you are in such pain. I hope you can feel better soon.
Smiley

Seems like a few of us are going through T on vacation syndrome. Are they all at some retreat discussing how much pain and suffering they are causing their patients
Lets see, my T has been gone for 12 days and I'm counting down the 25 days before I see him again. 25 Days!!! My former counselor made a comment that I have always remembered. He said he learned a long time ago that if he didn't take care of himself first, he couldn't help others. So, I'm looking at the many expeditions my T takes as not only caring for himself but caring for me as well. They never really leave us as they are always in our hearts, and I believe they are concerned for us but they have to live their lives too. So maybe I can share part of your blanket, and lets try to feel our T's presence wrapped inside
this safe place.

Wanted to stop by and tell you all thank you so much for your thoughtful responses. It has helped more than I can express. I don't have the energy to say much more - rough day. I'll post more later.

Hi seablue. I'm sorry you are going through the pain of your T being away on vacation. When does she come back? I know all to well how things feel when T is away. I guess I should feel fortunate that my T only goes away for 2 weeks, usually twice per year. What saves me I think is that he has a elementary school age child so he can't go away for too long a time.

I started a thread "T is on vacation and I'm freaking" last December. I went through a very difficult time as my dear friend and biggest supporter was also away on vacation at the same time so I had to endure alone. What I did was post to the Board like crazy and then journal every day with a countdown to when he'd be back. I made him promise me he'd come back and that he would be safe while gone. I had so many crazy feelings that he would never come back or that he would come back and be a different person and that we would lose our connection and things would get messed up in therapy or destroyed. Well, they really did get side-tracked for awhile. I had so much fear and anger at him for abandoning me that it took a lot of discussion between us to settle things. I totally dread his next vacation.

That said, I did survive it. He did not call me but he allowed email and I emailed him twice. I would listen to his old VMs and I tried to keep myself really busy. The support from the board members was the most important factor in helping me get through that awful time.

So keep talking to us here as we understand best how you feel and how hard this is and how much you miss her. I'm sorry that you are suffering but I hope we can help in some small way to make the wait tolerable.

Hug,
TN

SG,
Thank you so much for your kind and gentle words.

While I know beating myself up won't help, it is one of those difficult patterns I battle. When I am angry, the only 'safe' place I can take it is inside and I rage at myself. It's that there must be something wrong with me - it must be me- kind of thing. Thank you for pointing out that the adult me and child me deserve kindness and room to feel. And thank you for taking time to respond to my attempt to reach out - it means a lot to me (especially from a fellow MN girl - I think the parentheses are my attempt at a whisper - I don't think it's working - YIKES)

emogirl,
Thanks for responding to me. I am sorry you are in so much pain. 3 weeks is a long time - sounds like it's winding down and you are almost there!
It is so validating to realize that there are others who share my feelings when I am feeling so isolated and stuck in my pain.

MTF,
THANKS MTF! I do feel a parallel 'thing' with you. There are so many of your posts I could have written myself. Sometimes I have to really question whether I should respond to you because I feel the dynamic between your T and you is so close to my own that it becomes difficult to separate and I have to question whether I am trying to help you see that your T really can handle your needs (she has definitely indicated that she can)- or if I am trying to convince myself that my T can handle mine - does that make any sense? Anyway, it feels that close. I noticed in another thread that you are starting to spin again after seeing your T this week. Hang in there!!

I know, I know.....it doesn't help to be mean to myself - but it's so difficult to stop that automatic response. Something I am working on.

Unfortunately, the pattern of my marriage is not one that can take added pressure, especially the HUGE pressure of, well, my needs really. The reality is he has no idea what is happening inside of me and would not have a clue what to do if he did, except maybe run...fast. (wow that just hit me pretty profoundly as I typed it - not good). Anyway, I have had a lifelong pattern of a caretaker role, and I now am trying to change the pattern but it will take time.(I now have a VERY small circle as I have kicked lots of people out but have not replaced any of them) This is really the only place other than my T's office where I can share this big secret of mine So, thanks for thoughts and your response.

Smiley,
Thank you for taking the time to respond to me. It really helps know you get it! It really is so sad what many children have to endure in the way of emotional pain. I am sorry that you know what it feels like...

Monte,
Thanks for your words of kindness. What really hit me was when you said (I have tears streaming down my face just thinking about it) be that child, or more to the point, LET THAT CHILD BE. It really touched me. I do - and we all do need to let our child BE. Thank you - I will carry that with me.
I know you too have been struggling so much and I want you to know you are often in my thoughts.
Thank you, Monte.

TN,
Thanks for your response. I actually don't want to say when she'll be back. It is not nearly as long as others are enduring and I don't want to intensify anyone else's pain. The separation response continues to baffle me because it just doesn't make sense. Logically, I know she'll be back, and will come back as the same person she was when she left, but that almost primal fear sets in and just takes complete control of me. It helps to knwo I am not the only one.... Thanks, TN.


It helps to feel supported here!

When I said lets try feel our T presence while they are away because I believe they think of us too, it was proved to me today. I received an email from him. He is at 8,000ft in the Himalayas in a small village with internet access. The first town he has been able to email from, and he sent me a message so I know he is safe and sound. A big vitual hug from him! Made my day. Hang in there.

Oh, lizzygirl!!!!!! Yes, I am sharing my blanket with you!!!!!

I LOVE that your T sent you an email!! That must feel so good - I bet it does feel like a really big HUG.

My T did tell me that she does think about me when she is not with me, but of course that is hard for me to take in. A little more able to than I used to be though....baby steps.

I am truly so happy for you today.....

Seablue,

I hear you about the parallel between us and our attachment issues with our Ts. I feel the same way about the dynamics and also have to ask myself if I should respond to your posts sometimes because I wonder the same things you do. The same thing actually applies to a few others' posts on the forums, as getting emotionally involved in other people's issues starts me spinning when those issues resemble my own (which they very often do) and I wonder how objective I am being and if getting involved actually makes my own stuff worse.

quote:

Unfortunately, the pattern of my marriage is not one that can take added pressure, especially the HUGE pressure of, well, my needs really. The reality is he has no idea what is happening inside of me and would not have a clue what to do if he did, except maybe run...fast. (wow that just hit me pretty profoundly as I typed it - not good). Anyway, I have had a lifelong pattern of a caretaker role, and I now am trying to change the pattern but it will take time.(I now have a VERY small circle as I have kicked lots of people out but have not replaced any of them) This is really the only place other than my T's office where I can share this big secret of mine So, thanks for thoughts and your response.

Gee, this is scaring me a little to admit this, but I could have written the above paragraph myself. Kind of makes me feel better that these attachment issues have 'patterns' in the way they play out in our lives, but sad at the same time that they affect us so deeply in so many important areas. My husband was terribly hurt over the attachment I had to my physical therapist, partly because he's our neighbor and we see him at church each week, but mostly because he's a man and he thought I was 'in love' with him. It's so hard to understand my attachment issues myself, I sometimes think there's no way my husband could possibly even begin to understand them. I'm glad my T is a woman, but I wonder what my husband thinks about this. I haven't really told him much, as I have this fear that it would freak him out if he fully understood it. My T wants me to talk about it with him, but like you I wonder what he would think. I doubt your husband would run, but he may need to hear about what you're going through from your T so he has someone 'professional' to help him understand it and to 'normalize' it for him. They really do need to understand our stuff and learn how to help us, and how to meet our needs. Has your T made a big deal about how the lack of emotional connection and support in your marriage is a big reason why you're having such a strong attachment to her right now? Mine sure has. In fact, the fact that she's avoiding my attachment to her and pointing to my marriage so forcefully is a sore spot for me right now, but that's another story. However, it's a good point because the fact I'm not getting my needs met also points to the fact that I'm in the caretaker role too and don't ever worry about my needs, so it's no wonder I'm wanting my T to meet them. That's a big one for me. That and a million and one other things!! Such fun!!

Be good to yourself, girl!! Hang in there and keep posting. We're here for you!

MTF

Hi Seablue,

How nice to learn that we're in the same "neck of the woods"! (or perhaps "land of the lakes" is more appropriate )

quote:

While I know beating myself up won't help, it is one of those difficult patterns I battle. When I am angry, the only 'safe' place I can take it is inside and I rage at myself.

So do I, Seablue. I think a lot of us do that. In reminding you to be kind to yourself, I'm hoping it will sink in just a bit more that I need to do the same.

Take care,
SG

I have been able to process a little about the panic since my T has been what feels like "gone." I would like to share some of it if that's OK.

My panic had never made much sense to me. I had always assumed that because I did not ever physically lose someone as a child, that I am not justified in emoting so strongly about someone I'm attached to leaving.

As a child, as far back as I remember, I was terrified. My father was very abusive, and the only person I felt any safety with was my mom. Although she was not abusive in an intentional way, she was so involved in herself (completely unable to deal with any of her own emotions) that I don't think it occurred to her and still doesn't that I might have had needs and it might have been her job to help me navigate them. Even if it did occur to her, I don't think she was able. I got a clear message that any need was a burden. A very concrete example is the MANY ear infections I had as a child. I can still hear her "oh wonderful" when I would tell her my ear hurt.

Anyway, I was in full-time daycare as a child (it was discovered later that the one around 18 mos-3 yrs was physically and emotionally abusive) and the terror I feel about my T leaving me is the same terror I felt when my mom left me at daycare everyday, or was leaving me with my dad. I have that same physical reaction now that I did then - terror, shame, anger, need to hide any shred of emotion and need to hide physically. I still feel the pull of all of that now.

Like others here, I have a series of small T's, and although I have had some larger T's sprinkled in too , most of what I think the damage was caused by was the daily survival in that environment.

I have some awareness of how attachment injury plays out, but I had not been able to apply it to my own experience in a way that seemed to fit until now.

It is starting to make sense to me that because I have never experienced someone being so attuned to me the way my T appears to be, I am terrified of losing that from her, and anything (her absence) feels like a real threat. I feel such a desperate fear of something happening to damage our connection beyond repair and feel this frantic need to use glue, tape, gum or whatever to try to fix it at any cost to feel safe again. Realizing that piece has helped me be able to open slightly to possibility of letting go of just a little control, and begin an attempt to trust in the process. The anger, fear, sense of loss are all valuable clues.

I REFUSE to say that my T leaving is a good thing (with a pouty scowl and my arms crossed in front of me)- BUT I am seeing some valuable shifts in my awareness.

Thanks for listening. Would really appreciate any thoughts or comments.

scaredtoriskmyself,
Welcome!! I am fairly newish myself. We tend to isolate ourselves for safety, and it has been such a relief to have found this place. I have been able to bring so much more up in my sessions because of it. I'm so glad you have decided to 'risk yourself.' Reading/lurking here is helpful, but when you take the leap and post about your own experience, although definitely scary, it is even more validating. I hope you continue!

Hi Monte. Thanks for your response. Interesting that you too feel like much of your processing and insight happens out of your sessions. Must be a common thing and I guess it makes sense that we get so emotionally charged there and then when we walk away our brain has its own space to really process. I secretly fear that my T will think I don't need her (oh I sooo do) and try to terminate me. But, really, what doesn't make me fear the T word?

It really is amazing that our early years in life do affect EVERYTHING. And those experiences are so ingrained that it can seem like changing feels impossible and evokes emotion so intense we want to give up daily. Really makes me wonder even more about that nature/nurture thing.
I think often about how so many people go through life blissfully clueless (do not mean that in a derogatory way - more like maybe they're on to something) largely to their own emotions and they seem happy enough. I wonder if I am just torturing myself by bringing it all to the surface. Most of me knows that I really do want more emotional awareness and competence, but gosh it's so much work. It really feels all consuming a lot of the time, and I often fear I am missing out on life. I watch my neighbors chatting outside while their kids play, and I can't even bear to out there most days because I don't have the energy - makes me wonder what is WRONG WITH ME.

I am glad you have been able to uncover some important things while your T has been away.
By the way, how is that new drug coming along? You always make me laugh - thank you for that!

It's so hard when they leave.

Seablue,

quote:

the only person I felt any safety with was my mom. Although she was not abusive in an intentional way, she was so involved in herself (completely unable to deal with any of her own emotions) that I don't think it occurred to her and still doesn't that I might have had needs and it might have been her job to help me navigate them. Even if it did occur to her, I don't think she was able. I got a clear message that any need was a burden.

Same goes for me. My dad was also abusive, although not physically so much as verbally and emotionally. I too lived in a state of fear, and when my mom would leave us to go shopping, or if my parents would get into a fight and my mom would storm out of the house and leave in the car, I would freak out. I'm glad you pointed this stuff out, because I hadn't identified this stuff for myself yet. My T hasn't gone on vacation yet, and since I don't see her that often anyway I haven't felt that separation anxiety really strongly, although I DO feel it after each session. She's trying to help me feel more connected to her now by getting me in on the weeks I don't have a scheduled appointment, but I know that eventually something is bound to come up where I don't get in, or she does take a vacation. She has to, right? Not looking forward to it. It's hard to become dependent on someone like this as an adult and feel like a child again. I think that is what I hate the most about this is that I feel like a child and I AM NOT A CHILD!!! It makes me feel a lot of shame, and I don't like that either! She's not my mother, but I feel like a needy little child who wants my mother more than anything in the whole wide world, and for some reason it feels wrong. Ugh.

quote:

Like others here, I have a series of small T's, and although I have had some larger T's sprinkled in too , most of what I think the damage was caused by was the daily survival in that environment.

This is me, too. I feel like doing EMDR is going to be a bit ridiculous because most of my stuff is so minor that I feel like my T is going to laugh about it. I know she won't, but I can't help think she will wonder why I am in therapy because most of my stuff feels really small and insignificant to me. I'm good at minimizing my stuff, though. Are we all good at this, or is it just me?

quote:

It is starting to make sense to me that because I have never experienced someone being so attuned to me the way my T appears to be, I am terrified of losing that from her, and anything (her absence) feels like a real threat. I feel such a desperate fear of something happening to damage our connection beyond repair and feel this frantic need to use glue, tape, gum or whatever to try to fix it at any cost to feel safe again. Realizing that piece has helped me be able to open slightly to possibility of letting go of just a little control, and begin an attempt to trust in the process. The anger, fear, sense of loss are all valuable clues.

I know what you mean about fearing losing that connection with your T. That's my biggest fear, too. She is the first person in my life that I feel gets me (besides all of you wonderful people here on the forums! ), or at least cares enough about me to try to understand. And the fact that she listens, doesn't openly judge or criticize, accepts me for who I am, wants to genuinely help me be the best me that I can be, wants to see me succeed in life, and is there to support me in my journey all make me love her and never want to lose her. So heck yeah, it's scary to be separated from these people!! BTW, love the idea of using glue, tape or *gum* to try and fix it! ROFL I understand the feelings of desperation completely.

quote:

I wonder if I am just torturing myself by bringing it all to the surface. Most of me knows that I really do want more emotional awareness and competence, but gosh it's so much work. It really feels all consuming a lot of the time, and I often fear I am missing out on life. I watch my neighbors chatting outside while their kids play, and I can't even bear to out there most days because I don't have the energy - makes me wonder what is WRONG WITH ME.

I hear you, SB. I ask myself the same questions. I've felt this way for quite a few years now. I have only been in therapy for 7 months though, so I have a while longer to 'suffer through' this stuff. I find myself wishing my kids would leave me alone so I could 'think' without being disturbed so that I could move along faster, so I could write in my journal, 'talk' to my T in my head (or out loud if I'm alone, can't believe I'm admitting this), or whatever I need to do to figure my stuff out so I feel like I'm making progress. It IS all consuming and overwhelming a lot of the time. Sad but true. I wonder if and/when it ever slows down a bit because I could sure use a break!!

Anyway, I really am glad that you've had some insight through your T's absence and are experiencing some growth from it. It's hard that we can grow outside of our sessions with them, as I always thought that it would come during the session, but I don't think we'd EVER finish with therapy if the only time we processed stuff was during that one short hour with our Ts. Hang in there until your T gets back. I hope it's not too much longer! I hope you're doing better!! And thank you for sharing you insights with us--I always appreciate others' insights as it opens my mind to possibilities I hadn't considered myself.

MTF

Hi MTF,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts & experiences with me. Sounds really difficult and scary for a child to deal with. Sorry you had to go through it.

I am wondering if you find that feeling of separation you talked about experiencing after your therapy sessions feels the same or similar as the separation you experienced when your mom left you with your dad. It feels identical to me, so I am curious about others perceptions.

I am so happy to hear that you have been able to see your T more often lately. I hope it can help with the feelings of separation.

I can relate to the feeling like a child. It is really a confusing feeling and yes, evokes so much shame and fear. When we think about all of the reasons it is happening, it makes sense, but it is still really difficult to feel it. I love what Monte said about allowing ourselves to be that child and letting that child BE. Have you tried looking at pics of you as a child recently? I keep a few in my journal now ( at T's suggestion), as it helps me connect with 'her' and it is difficult to not see her vulnerability and innocence when I look at her. At times part of me can actually accept that she deserves to be cared for and listened to. It is still difficult though not to listen to those voices that tell me how pathetic I am for it.

I can feel myself being pulled into that downward spiral today and I'm trying to grip the side of the drain with everything in me. Wow , the emotions..... I really had hoped that if I could intellectualize the feelings that are coming up about T leaving and try to sort out a little of what they are about, I could somehow avoid feeling the feelings - yeah, NOPE!

Hi Guys,
I just wanted to pop in with a few comments based on my experience. First, all the feeling you're describing, especially about feeling like a child and how hard this can be, sound normal because I struggled with them too. We feel like children because the needs that are being evoked are from when we were children. Because those needs were never met nor were we taught what we needed to learn, parts of us effectively "froze" in time. So the feelings now are coming back with all the primitive intensity with which we experience feelings when we children, because staying close is a matter of life and death. And the sense of shame? It's not because you're feeling like a child now (that's what you're associating it with because we are ashamed of being childish) but the real source is that you were taught on a deep often unverbalized level that your needs were too much, or an imposition, just too much for the adults around you. So you learned to be ashamed of having them in an attempt to STOP having them so you could stop feeling the pain of NOT getting them met. Expressing them now is just bringing all the shame back up along with the intensity of the need.

quote:

I wonder if I am just torturing myself by bringing it all to the surface. Most of me knows that I really do want more emotional awareness and competence, but gosh it's so much work. It really feels all consuming a lot of the time, and I often fear I am missing out on life. I watch my neighbors chatting outside while their kids play, and I can't even bear to out there most days because I don't have the energy - makes me wonder what is WRONG WITH ME.

OK THIS is a biggie! You really put your finger on something very important. In order to live a full life, we need to experience both our feelings and out intellect. If we are completely driven by feelings, we tend to get into a lot of trouble. But feelings are how we feel alive and experience the richness of life. They are important indicators that provide a rich tapestry of information about what we're doing through and need to be considered and paid attention to when making decisions. But we have two major problems in the area of feelings. 1) We learned that, along with our needs, they were bad and dangerous and something to be avoided. 2) Part of the purpose of a secure attachment is that an older, wiser, other imparts to us the knowledge of how we regulate our emotions, tolerate them, and soothe ourselves so that we can regain equilibrium. How could you possibly know how to do something you were never taught. This is the part that our Ts can give us here and now, by letting us experience our emotions in session with them and learning from them how to handle them.

But for both these reasons, feelings became something to avoid at all costs, which is what so badly restricts our lives. If you have to avoid your feelings, there are SO many situations you have to avoid because those situations can evoke the very feelings you are trying to avoid. This is at the heart of why therapy is so blasted difficult. You're walking straight into the very situation that is the MOST difficult for you to handle, one which evokes all these unmet needs and intense feelings.

And here's the thing, if we have "good enough" parenting and a secure attachment, we're taught to handle our emotions in such a way that we don't have to give them a thought. So those neighbors you're watching? They're feelings come and go, and are taken care of, almost without them having to think about it, the skill has been there's so long it's no longer noticed. When was the last time you had to think about each letter and the sound it makes in a word when you are reading? But there was a time when you had to labor over each letter and each sound.

So here we are using an ENORMOUS amount of energy to stay away from situations and feelings we don't know how to handle because we were never taught to. And so many things, that on the surface seen through adult eyes are harmless, are to our internal implicit memories, danger fraught with the threat of destruction. And they we have to struggle to handle the fear evoked. You are NOT imagining how hard you're working. You're having to learn skills that are much more difficult to learn at this point in life. The good news is that as you learn them you will be AMAZED at the changes in your energy levels, your creativity, what you can done and even being able to be present with your children.

But I cannot say strongly enough: THERE IS NOTHING FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH YOU! You just weren't given what you needed or taught the skills you needed when you should have been. The problem lies in the people who failed you, not in yourselves. Your responsibility lies in the fact that you now have to choose between not living life fully or facing the difficult scary task of learning to handle your feelings so you can live life fully. You shouldn't have had to work this hard, and have every right to be both angry and sad about that, but unfortunately, although it is not a problem of your making, at this point, you're the only one who can fix it. But you can, that's the good news, you can fix it. It won't ever be quite as effortless or unthinking as someone who got what they needed, but it will be so much better. And frankly, I think I have an appreciation for connection with others, and intimacy and being able to FEEL that probably isn't possible without having had to heal from this.

And you're not imagining things, most of the work of therapy is done between sessions, as you think and write and post and talk and work to integrate what you've learned from your therapist into your life. Doesn't mean you don't need them, just that you practice even when you're away from them.

AG

quote:

I really had hoped that if I could intellectualize the feelings that are coming up about T leaving and try to sort out a little of what they are about, I could somehow avoid feeling the feelings - yeah, NOPE!

Hi Seablue,
This is another of those skills we need learn because we weren't taught. We're biologically driven to stay close to our attachment figures so when they leave, it triggers responses in us. They have actually identified stages of separation in young mammals, including humans. The first stage is agitation; we get anxious and nervous and are on alert for their return. If they do not come back soon enough, we progress to protest, think of the whimpering of a puppy or the wailing of a child left alone. If this extends long enough, despair sets in, we give up, turn in upon ourselves and shut down.

Think of a small child whose mother is going out. It's a huge deal, they get upset. But in a "good enough" setting again, those feelings are listened to, understood, identified for the child ("I know you're scared (or angry) that mommy is leaving") and soothed (it will be ok, mommy will be back soon). The mother leaves and when she comes back once again hears the child's feelings about how it felt to have her gone and reassures the child that she is back. Do this over and over and over throughout childhood and eventually the child learns to trust both that they can survive the separation and that mom comes back. Again, it sucks, but we were never taught that. So now we go through it with our Ts.

I spent a couple of years going into meltdowns when my T went on vacation (also happens to be a time where I do really deep work) and would have to spend two sessions after each vacation processing my feelings of anger and abandonment and fear. Eventually it took, so that while I can still really miss him over breaks, it no longer feels threatening to either myself or the relationship.

What you're experiencing is normal developmental stages, just, again, years after you were supposed to.

AG

All right, you guys are saying things that are resonating so loudly I can hardly keep from jumping up and down (but I'm trying to restrain myself because it's really hard to jump and type accurately at the same time - I'm just not that talented )

Thank you, Seablue, for continuing to share your feelings here. I hope you are feeling supported and a little bit better, at least, for the responses you are getting. And may I say you've set off a very helpful and interesting discussion for the rest of us too.

quote:

Originally posted by Seablue:
I think often about how so many people go through life blissfully clueless (do not mean that in a derogatory way - more like maybe they're on to something) largely to their own emotions and they seem happy enough. I wonder if I am just torturing myself by bringing it all to the surface. Most of me knows that I really do want more emotional awareness and competence, but gosh it's so much work. It really feels all consuming a lot of the time, and I often fear I am missing out on life. I watch my neighbors chatting outside while their kids play, and I can't even bear to out there most days because I don't have the energy - makes me wonder what is WRONG WITH ME.

Oh, wow, Seablue, you put this into words so well, something that I've felt, and wondered more and more about, all my life. Even as a little kid at school watching other little kids. Always wondered what am I missing, where's my map, everyone else must have gotten instructions on how to do this and I'm winging it. As an "adult" I feel that the other adults are "real" adults and I'm pretending, playing "dress-up", trying to fake it and wishing I felt a fraction of the confidence they appear to feel.

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
In order to live a full life, we need to experience both our feelings and out intellect. If we are completely driven by feelings, we tend to get into a lot of trouble.

Thank you, AG, you always help explain things so well, and also this is the perfect time for me to hear this. I'm just starting to see how all my life, I've done an either/or thing. And I've been thinking that I've had it backwards, that I've used my heart when I should have used my head, and used my head when I should have used my heart. But that's still black and white. Your take on it is that the two sides have to talk to each other! OMG. Is it even possible?

quote:

Originally posted by Attachment Girl:
So those neighbors you're watching? They're feelings come and go, and are taken care of, almost without them having to think about it, the skill has been there's so long it's no longer noticed. When was the last time you had to think about each letter and the sound it makes in a word when you are reading? But there was a time when you had to labor over each letter and each sound.

What a really clear and helpful analogy...thanks AG. My feelings are just starting to come alive in therapy and they are crashing into my intellect, so everything is jumbled right now...this analogy helps "normalize" things a bit for me.

quote:

Originally posted by AG:
So here we are using an ENORMOUS amount of energy to stay away from situations and feelings we don't know how to handle because we were never taught to.

Very true. So THAT's why I'm always so tired.

quote:

Originally posted by AG:
You are NOT imagining how hard you're working. You're having to learn skills that are much more difficult to learn at this point in life. The good news is that as you learn them you will be AMAZED at the changes in your energy levels, your creativity, what you can done and even being able to be present with your children.

I am SO looking forward to being amazed like this.

SG

I'm going to be really lazy here and say 'Ditto' to Strummergirl's comments. Those are all the same things that stood out to me in AG's posts and resonated with me so much, too. Thanks AG for explaining and articulating stuff so well! You rock!!

Monte, I am so lost in my head all the time that I would gladly be in your head any day! A break from my own would be nice!! I will try to stay out of yours, though. I know I don't like it when other people invade my thoughts. It's rude.

Seablue:

You asked if the feelings of separation I feel after my sessions are the same as I felt as a child when my mom would leave. I would say yes. In fact, a couple sessions ago when I 'tried' to tell my T about the internet searching but didn't get it all out, I didn't even make it to the elevator before I started spinning (and that's unusual for me). I wanted to literally run back to her office because I was so scared that she wasn't going to remember to call me that next week because she hadn't said she would, and she had also said she would call and get me an appointment for the next week (my 'off' week) and I didn't think she would really remember or that she was serious, and I started to freak out. That feeling of fear and panic and wanting to run back to her for safety and reassurance that she was really going to call me and that she was truly going to try to get me in for a session that next week was so weird. It made me really question what was going on with me and why I was so panicked. But having you bring this all up about how you have connected your separation anxiety with your T to your childhood experiences has helped me to put 2 and 2 together and understand why I likely felt that way that day. THANKS!!! It makes so much more sense to me now. I think I was scared that telling her what I did had caused some sort of damage to our relationship and I was unsure of how she 'really' felt and wondered if she disliked me after that. It was awful.

I have tried looking at pictures of myself as a child lately, and it's kind of sad. I don't feel that I was really deprived as a child, and there are times where I wonder where all of this stuff comes from. I see a happy child in those photos. I know my parents loved me, and still do. I wonder where my sadness comes from now and how I was affected like this. I know my mom was emotionally unavailable a lot of the time, but she also did a lot for us and spent time interacting with us and doing things to make life fun for us. My dad was gone a lot, but I remember good times with him, too. It's so weird to wonder how I got to be where I am at today. It makes me feel sometimes like this must just be something I've created myself. My sister feels a lot of the same things though, so I know it's not just me. I just can't figure it out.

I'm really struggling with the whole emotions vs. intellect thing. Although I am a pretty emotional girl, I am also extremely analytical and spend way too much time in my head thinking and intellectualizing. I have a very difficult time in sessions when I have feelings come up because my thinking brain wants to be in charge, and the emotions will--if they're powerful enough (like shame, especially)--cause my thinking brain to have to shut down. Then of course I'm just sitting there feeling these emotions I don't even really understand or know how to express because I didn't learn how to deal with them or express them as a child, and I just freeze up with my T. She's only openly caught me in the act once and actually pointed out to me that I 'shut down', and I was shocked that she perceived that. That was after I read her my long scary letter back in March and we had our 'UBER-limbic resonance' experience. Normally we're not that connected. I'm going to start another post about that because I'm needing some feedback about this whole feelings/emotions issue.

I hope you're doing better, Seablue. I know this attachment stuff is so very painful. I sometimes wonder if I would have ever started therapy had I known what I was in for. The analogy of it feeling like going down a drain is a good one, as trying to hang onto the sides of the drain often feels impossible to do and it almost feels inevitable that we're going to just lose our grip and take the long trip down the pipes and who knows where we'll come out. Ugh. I hope things get better for you soon. Hang in there! You can make it!!! Keep posting!

MTF

MTF this just hit me in the gut.

Smiley,

I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. I hope you're okay. (((hugs)))

MTF

OK, can someone help me figure out how to do quotes? I'm not very smart.

Thanks to everyone for your support right now. Because of all of you, I have been able to actually feel my feelings while T has been gone instead of using coping strategies/ED symptoms (over-exercising/restricting food) to get through and avoid feeling anything. I am amazed at the amount of 'work' I have been able to do in T's absence by not falling into old behavior patterns. It is a first, and did not even realize it until today, which also suggests I was not right at the edge of the cliff ready to use them.

AG, What you said about the shame really hit me. I had not been able to figure out what it was about which only caused more shame - you know the cycle. It makes sense that it comes from feeling emotions and having needs and the rejection we felt as children because of them. Just typing that, I get an image of me as a child with my head hanging down. Or maybe I feel like that child with my head hanging down.

Interesting, what you said about the "neighbors" being able to navigate feelings without effort. So hard to imagine feeling could EVER become an automatic thing for me and likely many of us here. The level of shame when negative feelings and needing come up feels so intense that it hardly seems possible to ever change that pattern. And it is also really easy to get caught up in the "it's not fair" of it all because the fact is, like you said, it isn't fair. It helps to remember though that the reward will likely be much sweeter than it would have been never having experienced a struggle to get there. Thanks for that reminder!! And, like SG said, so looking forward to that time!!
The other thing I wanted to say is that whole thing about stages of separation!!!!!! Oh my gosh, that resonated so loudly. When I look at my feelings over the past week and a half, I can identify the pattern of panic, despair, and giving up/depression. It is so much clearer and feels so validating.
I want to thank you AG. You have a way of making me (and I suspect lots of others here) feel so validated and "normal."

Monte, Love the evil laugh!!
Thanks for the reminder about giving in to the feelings and riding them out. It is so true that resisting them is very often more difficult than feeling them, and that we must feel them in order for to grow and evolve emotionally. Damn it - HATE that!!

One of those necessary coping skills we learned in childhood that served us well for so long - difficult to undo.

SG
Thanks for your encouragement about my continuing to post here. Like I am sure others here do, I often worry about putting my stuff out there (being identified), and also have huge worries about sounding self-consumed or ridiculous. Can't tell you how many times I type things and then don't post them.

Definitely hearing you on the emotional and intellectual sides of our brains working together. My T and I talk about this as she is a neuropsychologist, so has a lot of interest and knowledge about the way our brains process. It is very interesting to me too, and it has taken me a while to realize that our brains are not capable of 'perfect processing.' Part of me assumed that was the goal - VERY black and white. Unfortunately, we have to accept that our emotional and intellectual sides will never communicate the way we would like, so it is a matter of doing the best we can. Takes a little pressure off, but also a disappointing realization for me. Feel a little silly admitting this.

MTF - Looking forward to your post about emotions vs. intellect.
When I read your post, I got the feeling that you feel like you aren't justified in feeling the way you do about your childhood, or that in your eyes it wasn't horrible enough to justify the difficulty you are experiencing. I just want to say that those dismissing messages, subtle or not can be so so so damaging. You have said that your mom was emotionally unavailable to you. That is painful to child who needs to have a mom (or other primary caregiver) help name their feelings and recognize and accept them. When we weren't able to feel them, and there was no one there to help us navigate them or even listen to them, how could we learn to do this? I also think (and I know this is the case for me, not sure if it fits for you) that some people are biologically more wired in a way that makes these experiences more damaging. so, what might be manageable for one person may be experienced very differently by another (me ). The fact that your sister has similar struggles also says something about your experience as a child. Maybe it is the minimizing speaking? I do that a lot my T tells me, but it is hard to know for sure when you really feel like your feelings may not be justified. Sadly, minimizing was so necessary for our survival at one time.

Thanks for your encouragement during this time. I appreciate it so much.

Hi Seablue,
I'm so glad you found that info helpful. I totally get what you mean about normalizing the behavior. One of the keys to my making so much progress with my present T was his removing the pathology from our healing model. Instead of seeing me as broken and in need of fixing, he treated it as development gone awry. A lot of the info I talked about, especially the stages of separation, were from the General Theory of Love. Understanding attachment and its affect on human relationships combined with the fact that the authors (three clinical psychiatrists) saw dependency as a necessary part of healing really helped me to understand what I needed to do to heal. So I have to give credit here to my therapist who first taught me a lot of this and how important it was to see it this way.

Tech talk: OK to add quotes:
1. Select the text you wish to quote by clicking and dragging your mouse over the desired text.

2. Press CTRL-C to copy the text to your clipboard

3. In the Reply dialog box (the one you type your posts in) there's a little tool box that goes across the top of where you type. The quotes button is the seventh button from the left. Click on this button. When you do this the word "Quote" will appear in brackets followed by a space, then "/Quote" appears in brackets.

4. Click in the space after the ending bracket of the first quote and before the beginning bracket of the second quote.

5. Press CTRL-V to paste in the text you copied on step 1.

6. Click after the closing bracket of the second quote and continue typing as usual.

Let me know if that doesn't work or you have questions.

AG

Hi Seablue...I just wanted to let you know I was thinking of you. hug,

BB

Seablue,

quote:

MTF - Looking forward to your post about emotions vs. intellect.

I sort of tried to do this in my post about needing more advice, but it didn't go as planned, so sorry to disappoint you, but I think my next post will be about my session with my T at 4 p.m. today. I don't even know what I'm going to say to her, and I don't even know if I care this time. Kind of weird, but I almost feel like I should maybe just go in there this time and just let things happen and see what comes of it. It's been a while since that happened.

quote:

When I read your post, I got the feeling that you feel like you aren't justified in feeling the way you do about your childhood, or that in your eyes it wasn't horrible enough to justify the difficulty you are experiencing. I just want to say that those dismissing messages, subtle or not can be so so so damaging. You have said that your mom was emotionally unavailable to you. That is painful to a child who needs to have a mom (or other primary caregiver) help name their feelings and recognize and accept them. When we weren't able to feel them, and there was no one there to help us navigate them or even listen to them, how could we learn to do this?

You're right, Seablue. I oftentimes don't feel justified in how I feel and look at what I went through as being so minor compared to what so many others go through as children, many of which are on the boards here. Thank you for reminding me that my thinking that way is damaging. I know what I lacked is real, and that it has hurt me not only as a child, but also as an adult. I only need to look at the mess I'm in with my T as a daily reminder of that! Seriously though, thanks for reminding me that what I've been through is real and valid, and that I need to not minimize it.

quote:

I also think (and I know this is the case for me, not sure if it fits for you) that some people are biologically more wired in a way that makes these experiences more damaging. so, what might be manageable for one person may be experienced very differently by another.

I'm the only one of my siblings that has reached a point where I can't handle life. We are all screwed up because of our emotional deprivation and neglect and the abuse we suffered, but I am the one that finally 'cracked' from it all. I'm the oldest, so maybe because I've lived with it the longest is why I'm the first. But I see what you're saying about the biological aspect of it. My mother has told me I have always been very sensitive and emotional, and that I never had a 'selfish bone' in my body until I became a teenager. Like you, I have been in a caretaker role for as long as I can remember, but I'm the only one in my family that is like that--so I think that you're right, some of us are more likely to be affected by stuff than others on a bio/neurological level. In my case it has made me physically ill, so it's not something to take lightly. Yes, it's sad that minimizing was so necessary for us to be able to get through our childhoods with some sanity intact. I guess it's good we have the inherent ability to take care of ourselves in order to survive. It's just too bad we don't know how to quit that behavior when it no longer serves us well.

You're welcome for the support. I'm glad you see it as such. Thanks for yours, too! I love the friendship I feel here, even though I don't actually 'know' any of you! This place is such a blessing to me. Thanks again, Seablue!! Hang in there!

ooooh blackbird - Thank you!!

MTF - hope your session went well today!

I survived the separation. I know you are all thinking that wasn't that long. Sorry for being so dramatic about it, when others here are going sooooooooo long without seeing their T's. The really embarrassing truth is that I see her twice a week so I would find even once a week difficult at this point.

Anyway, I saw my T today. Not a great session, but kind of expected that. I have to accept that her vacation was bound to cause a disruption. I am really trying to be ok with that and give up a little control, and just let the process happen. It is HARD though.

I was triggered pretty badly at one point about the 'others' (other clients). I saw one........ on my way in, she was leaving. I hate her. (how is that for letting my child be?)

Then, during my session, my T said a little comment about having talked about the length of time she was gone with someone else that morning. It sent me into a huge reaction of jealousy, hurt, fear, all of those super fun feelings I know and love so much. In my little mind, I heard that she was talking to someone else (I assumed client), so that client must have missed her to, so they must feel attached to her too, so she must have relationships with other clients that are like the one she has with me. That just plain hurts so much - I know I have already talked about this here, but I am no where near over it, sorry.

Anyway, I brought it up (yay me) and she apologized, was glad I told her and said she was actually talking to a colleague, not a client, and that our relationship is unique and special because we each bring ourselves to it, so she does not have a relationship like it with anyone else. I get that, but really...the feelings of rejection are huge. I just don't know how to accept the reality here.

The other issue that cam up from it is that she said that situation is the very reason she does not typically disclose things, because something so small and seemingly innocent can be heard so differently by a client and can turn into something so damaging. BUT, I love when she tells me little things, and already she RARELY does, so now she will probably NEVER again.

I was really relieved to see her, and that she was still alive, in one piece, and in her office again where she belongs. I told her it feels like I can exhale again.

18 more days and counting until my T returns.
He has emailed me (and others) several times updating us on his trek in Nepal, I have been following where he is on line. Grueling...but spectacular experience he says. I cant imagine having that endurance at 60. I can barely get out of bed. So I feel affirmed that he is thinking about me as I'm on his "list" of contacts, and I'm still thinking of the hug he gave me before he left. Regardless, I feel very lonely and somewhat lost, like something is
missing in my life....him. Attachment, yuck!

Thanks, dragonfly!!

lizzygirl,
Yuck indeed. I'm so sorry - it's so painful.

It warms my heart that he has contacted you, so at the very least you know he's safe and thinking of you. I know that does not come close in comparison to seeing him and talking to him though. I hope you have been able to find something that can ease the pain and help pass the time.

Keep posting!! (((((((lizzygirl)))))))