Russ,

I'm sorry you are feeling so much pain and missing your parents right now. I can relate in some ways. I have not spoken to my parents in many years and we will never have a relationship. I miss having the parents that I should have had, but I don't miss them specifically at all.

In terms of new feelings in the midst of pain, well I can say that I've had to get to that point to be able to feel my T on an emotional level and also a physical level. Before I got to that point it was like I knew she was there, but I just couldn't feel her there. Once the floodgate of emotion opened, I was finally able to really feel her presence and her caring.

I hope that you are able to move forward from this point and navigate into some uncharted territory. It really sounds like this could be a great catalyst for you despite the pain.

STRM,

Thanks for the reply. I'm sorry about your relationship with your parents, but I know everyone's situation is different, and in a lot of cases, it's for the best for there not to be a relationship at all.

quote:

In terms of new feelings in the midst of pain, well I can say that I've had to get to that point to be able to feel my T on an emotional level and also a physical level. Before I got to that point it was like I knew she was there, but I just couldn't feel her there. Once the floodgate of emotion opened, I was finally able to really feel her presence and her caring.

You should feel very good about yourself for having done this...allowed yourself to finally open up to your T and get the healing process going for real. I'm still at the "I know he's there, but I just can't feel him there" stage.

Thanks,
Russ

russ, timely post. i have had a drop down wall with mine, and know i need to lift it. my mom was the problem, and my dad too weak and busy protecting her that we kindof slid through w/o what we needed. and probably she is sick mentally.

i dunno, i feel for you. i do think relationship is better than not, and i just appreciate you sharing your situation. just one more nudge for me into letting the wall of silence abate.

it was for me to heal, but, as my t congratulated me for realizing, the weight of carrying the wall is greater than the weight of letting it go. use that emotional energy for something productive instead, like HEALING my wounds.

russ, i hope you can find a way to express some of the feelings you are having to them. have you thought of writing?? i find that so much easier, as no one can see me crying, and i can control my rage...kind of black and white, my thinking 'round here!!

i think it could be healing to express some of this, and your parents are around the same age as mine, and you just never know how much time is there.

i always enjoy your perspective, russ, and appreciate your presence with all us chicks!! nice to have a rooster around!!

good luck, and i think just the name of your post speaks progress, my friend!! jill

Hi jill,

A couple of years ago I exchanged some letters with my Dad and it was entirely unsatisfying. He didn't take any responsibility for the way he was with me other than to say, "I'm sorry if I ever disparaged you," which sounded like he was talking to one of his employees as opposed to one of his children. He's STILL this way with my Mom, even tho my Mom now totally stands up to him. She calls him on his bullshit now and he still puts up a fight and never says "I'm sorry" when he's wrong.

No, I need to talk to them face to face. I need to tell my Dad that he f'ed up big time with me and I need to tell my Mom that not having her defend me against him left me feeling completely un-safe and scared shitless for the next 40 years. It will be ugly and messy, but I think I need to do it in order to actually grieve what I never got and to get a more accurate picture of what was happening back then.

I love my parents so much, but I'm also very angry with them. I need to get to place where I can feel both, and I think having a direct exchange with them is the only way to do it.

I feel very, very lucky that my parents are still both alive and still part of my life. I know a lot of people here don't have their parents, either because they're no longer living or for various other reasons. Some of the stories I read on this forum about how people's parents treated them, and still treat them now, are horrifying. So I know I'm fortunate to still have my parents here and that they're available to me.

quote:

the weight of carrying the wall is greater than the weight of letting it go. use that emotional energy for something productive instead, like HEALING my wounds.

Perfectly stated. It's just hard as hell to bring that wall down because - and I think this feeling is only partly conscious - it feels like I'm going to DIE without it.

Russ

russ, there you go, being a MAN, a real man and talking face to face, wow, i don't think i could do it. i admire your strength and you knowing what it'll take. my t is going to help me write a letter, someday. not ready now, and the funny thing is, i DON'T miss them. we WERE really close, long trips with them and my family until a year ago when i fell apart. i am so afraid it will just get back to how it was, me, knocking myself out to please her bottomless pit of needs and no thanks, only me, the butt of the joke, and ME taking it and turning the other cheek for humiliation upon humiliation. (rant rant, sorry)

some lines t said that you might like, it opening up saying that you tell them this knowing full well they will not take responsibility for their actions and will deny their cause of any of my troubles, but you are telling them anyway...'this is what it was like to be a child in that house....and go on to explain', 'this is how you have affected my adult life....', and something about you knowing full well that they will not do the proper thing and make amends, and at least for me, that in the future, i do not want a close relationship with them because they are defective, they lack the parent gene, and i will not subject myself to further humiliation ...etc...anyway, some of that may be useful to you??

keep us posted, i am sure this is relevant for many of us on here!! hugs, russ. jill

Rus ~

quote:

Has anyone else experienced new feelings like this in the midst of terrible pain? Almost as if you needed to be in such pain to feel them?

Yes, yes, yes... and just yesterday. I so deeply wanted my mom. Yet I also felt somewhat like you - wondering if I missed her specifically or the warmth and caring I never had as a kid with her.

In the end, I called my mom, she could tell I was a mess. The call was weird... nothing bad, but nothing like what I longed for. But then this morning, she called, and I told her I was ok but really hurting right now and even shaking - and she said she was so sorry and asked how she could help. She lives a thousand miles away (litterally) and I told her, (again this is probablky going to sound really childish or silly or weak) "just stay on the phone with me a little bit, ok? I feel really scared and I just want you near and being on the phone helps." She was really cool with it - I felt so silly and childish (I'm near 30 years old) but it really helped in the midst of my pain. My mom will probably never be like I really long for, but yet when I risked - mostly out of sheer desperation for any relief of the pain I'm in - and told her I wanted her near... she came near in the best way she knew how. We talked about the weather and the thoughness of the moment. We have had a couple years of me telling her no advice, no advice - because she used to always jump in with too much advice - now she asks - and I'm good at telling her I just need you present, not tell me what to do, just stay and talk... for me, it just fits where I'm at and with what she knows how to do right now. And the more we communicate the better it gets... but it takes a lot of time... and a lot of risk... and at times... it takes a lot of heartache... and acceptance, she can't quite be qhat I really long for the most... in the end though, the process has brought us closer together.

I asked my T if it was silly to want my mom at around 30 years old... she said no, thgat it's really normal and that feeling never 1005 goes away and she said she didn't think it always should... and that we may never get what we really long for, but maybe it can be a little better...

my mom and I have talked about growing up - in my relatioship with her, I have approaches it in a very curious instead of confrontational way. (I tried the confrontaltional or just really blunt way - and that totally didn't work for either of us. it probably works better for others though.) Now, I just ask, what was this like for you mom? why did you do it this way? how do you remeber xyz? and it's not only helped me understand my own childhood better, but my mom so much better - and brought us closer that way. I feel like at times, our relationship is more real than ever. and other times, it's all a mess or distant... I guess it's all a process for both of us.

For me, it is so hard to bring down that wall. It first came down and still usually only comes down for me when I'm in the midst of great deep heartache - and out of sheer desperation... and with a lot of fear about letting it come down... in the end, it does take more energy to carry it around, and even when I get hurt for letting the wall down, walking through that hurt seems to bring me to a healthier better place than I was with the wall up... I dunno how all that works... and I WANT AN EASIER WAY! argh. (sorry, I guess I'm in a sad and mad funk lately)

My father and I - well, that's a whole diff story... for my mom, father, and I - and my parents are still married but my father... he was abusive, when I spoke out about it, he stopped being in my life... he won't speak to me or be around me and it eats my mother up... and I perpectually confused but learning to understand the weird messy reasons why my momther stays - and how much she loves me that she constantly refuses to give in to him and reject me or support his rejection of me - yeah, actually, that's a big mess. another story for another time...

I don't really have any words of advice for you, but I do hope you do have a chance to become even closer with your parents and I think it is amazing that they are still here and availible to you

quote:

Has anyone else experienced new feelings like this in the midst of terrible pain? Almost as if you needed to be in such pain to feel them?

Dear Russ,

Thank you so much for being so candid. I too had been very distant from my dad at least. He just died last week and I can't tell you how unexpected my feelings are. He was quite abusive to me in childhood and adulthood. he could also be kind. He was complex. He was a WWII vet with PTSD. Over the last year he slipped into a place where I did not know him as I have always known him. He became like a child. I didn't visit him as much as I wish I had now. But when I did go see him he was simple. He would tell me that he loves me. I'd bend over and he'd kiss my face and say "I love you" It was as if I was seeing my dad's soul rather than his defenses that he built up over the years. It changed me. I saw him in his coffin and so many people came to his funeral. I saw how deeply he had touched others during his lifetime. There was not a dry eye in the place. This is hard to explain for me but something happened where I could see my Dad stripped down of all the armour and defenses we gather in this life. I was able to see his beauty. I KNOW he loved me. I know this. And I know he did the best he could for me. I think he has come to me a few times. I don't know if I believe in life after death but if there is such a thing he's certainly been trying to communicate with me. He's been telling me that he is sorry. He also sees how his actions affected my life. He is encouraging me to love myself and take care of myself because honestly I don't take care of myself. Anyway this is probably too long... But I feel that if you can tell your parents how you feel while they can still hear it. It is risky and scary but we have inner places that can be connected with once the barriers are pushed aside.

I loved my dad.

Take care Russ. You have been a good son and you are a good person. I can tell.

Jo,

Thanks for the wonderful reply. I'm very moved by it, especially your feeling that what you saw in your Dad in the end was his soul. I'm so sorry for your loss, and I'm sorry that it took your Dad's final illness for him to let his walls come down. Still, it sounds like you and he were able to clarify your feelings for each other, and that seems to be the most important thing.

When I talk to my Dad on the phone, he always says, "it's good to hear your voice," which I think is his way of saying "I love you." I don't think he can bring himself to say I love you because his father never, ever said it to him. He told my Mom once, "my dad never told me he loved me, but I know he did." I don't buy that idea. I think that's a child's way of denying the reality of the situation. My Dad also told me that when he graduated from high school, his father didn't even know about it, and when my Dad told him about it, his Dad actually asked him, "what grade are you in?"

What a raging a-hole. And my Dad's older brother, who my father sacrificed his own true self for in a desperate attempt to be like him, was a raging a-hole. Then when I came along, guess what...that's right, I was the object of the family legacy of a-hole-ism.

But at least I'm starting to see this, and starting to deal with my rage toward my father and the more tender feelings under that.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Thanks again, Jo, for telling me your story.

Russ

janedoe,

Your entire reply about your Mom totally resonates with me, especially these parts:

quote:

I felt so silly and childish (I'm near 30 years old)

Don't feel bad. I'm 43

Two years ago my parents were traveling in Africa during my birthday, and they didn't send me a birthday card or call me. My Mom said she tried to call on the sat phone they had but the call wouldn't go through. I was crushed, but it wasn't until I was in unbearable pain that I let myself feel crushed. I remember calling my Mom and it took every ounce of courage I had to tell her how hurt I was by this. I was on the phone, sobbing uncontrollably because I didn't get a call or a card. This was on my 41st birthday. This just goes to show that the child in us never, even goes away, and if that child is stuck in a certain place of emotional development, then that's what's dying to come out and be heard.

quote:

Now, I just ask, what was this like for you mom? why did you do it this way? how do you remeber xyz? and it's not only helped me understand my own childhood better, but my mom so much better - and brought us closer that way. I feel like at times, our relationship is more real than ever. and other times, it's all a mess or distant... I guess it's all a process for both of us.

This is what I've been doing, and my Mom has been really helpful, despite, I think, not really knowing her own feelings very well.

quote:

It first came down and still usually only comes down for me when I'm in the midst of great deep heartache - and out of sheer desperation... and with a lot of fear about letting it come down

Yeah, that's me to a tee.

I'm sorry to hear that you and your Dad. That has to be incredibly painful for you.

Russ

I am glad you are working on your rage with your dad. What is it the buddhists say? Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”

I know its so cliche and I really hate to do that to you and myself lol but it's so damn true. I have had much anger, resentment and rage toward my parents all my life. I must be in the afterglow of death or something with my dad. I guess the biggest thing is I see him as human. He as just a person who did the best he could here.

Anyway I wonder what your dad would do if you said "I love you Dad" That would be interesting.

UV,

My God, your father's story is horrifying. I'm sorry that part of his nightmare had to be passed down to you, but I guess that's how families often work. Pain and suffering is passed down unless someone sees it and makes an effort to stop it.

The story of your father and his siblings in the bar is really sickening. Makes me wonder why men like that, who were carrying so much pain with them from the war and from their own abuse, bothered to have children. Well, I guess not having children meant certain things back then. And if you Catholic my Mom is, well, if you get pregnant, it's God's work.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your story.

Russ

russ, i just have to comment on your last line, i finally heard, from my truthtelling aunt, that my catholic dad married the first piece of you know what that he came upon, and that she had a really ratty reputation.

nice going, pops!! how did that work out for ya!! (dumb ass!)

jill

Russ - thank you for posting this, it's very apt for me at the moment as I too miss my parents, yet at the same time am having huge trouble even trying to connect with them (especially my mother) on anything but a superficial level.

I've never really had a proper father daughter relationship with my dad, as he left when I was two and the relationship has been one of bieng in touch and losing touch (down to me, when I couldn't cope with the drama and strain). My mother - hmm, where to start. She was/is very demanding, never encourages, nothing is ever good enough, is very closed, doesn't accept me for who I am. Yet I miss them - or rather the idea of what I would want them to be.

It's tough, really tough to realise that none of this will change - I just have to learn how to manage it better.

I wish all of you the very best in dealing with these things.

x