Hey
I can kinda relate to this Anon...but I have a mum and she was/is good enough,
but I've spent my life searching for a sort of spiritual mum. I've attached
myself to various older women (teachers, ministers, neighbours and now T) in this
quest to fill whatever the void is. It's painful, the longing I have for something,
but I can't really identify what it is. I also feel guilty about it because my
mum wasn't abusive and was there for me in the main.

I know it's not the same as your situation with your mum but I just wanted to
post to say that I understand that need and I really feel for you.

Sending hugs to you and I think Boo is lucky to have you and pat yourself on
the back for being the great mum you are, when you didn't have a good example of
mothering to learn from!

Searching

Hi Anon ,
I'm really glad (in a selfish way... but not glad you feel this - you know what I mean...) that you have posted about this.
I have always known, I think, that I wanted a mother figure - my own mother was very ill and left me with a relative when I was 9. I always looked after her, comforted her and tried to work out how I had to be to make her happy. I never knew my father so had lived with the attitude of how can I want what I have never had?
I realised as I grew older that I was forever secretly hoping that teachers or youth group leaders would take me home and even as an adult, I've been looking to older women to fulfill that role for me.
I felt incredibly guilty about seeking this be wise the relative that looked after me wanted me to be her daughter but there was so much deception and betrayal, and really no focus at all on what I needed that I resisted her furiously. I didn't want a substitute mother, I wanted my own mother to love me...
I think your T says a similar thing to what many people have said to me - that there will be plenty of people on my journey through life that will fill those roles for me... But til now, I didn't want to hear it.
I was always confused that my T was offering love, care, unconditional positive regard and yet I couldn't accept it. I fought it with all my might whilst screaming at myself to accept it because it is all I've ever wanted...
Sometime last week, I stopped fighting so hard. For now, I accept what my T is offering, am relieved and feel that although it is time limited and slotted into a schedule it is enough, because she is really there. I can't keep holding out for something that isn't there.
I didn't know it would hurt so much to realise what I've never known - how 2 people can connect and see each other. I didn't know how hard it was to be seen... But I'm sort of ok with that, for now.

I wish you'd had enough of what you are giving your daughter, but I think it is important to recognise what is happening... I have a lot of admiration for you and your journey and for being so generous to share it on here.

((((Anon))))

quote:

Originally posted by anonymously:
Risking to come out of my cave to share.

I don't know. I don't want to have needed a mom...and I don't want to need one now. I guess, what I feel like I want, is to have someone feel toward me the way I feel toward Boo. I mean, not even that much, just someone who seems to want me around without wanting something from me or needing to control me to find worth.

I totally get this longing, and the sadness that comes from realizing its futility. You can't change reality.

I think sometimes that acknowledging the truth and the pain is all that we can do. And maybe the pain will lessen.

Hang in there. Your daughter is so, so lucky to have you!

Sometimes we as parents, who are trying our best and doing a good enough job, suffer because we see what we are missing.

I can relate to some of these comments, too. Because I was close to my dad, who died when I was nine, I felt his loss deeply, but my mother, who was there for my whole life, I didn't think I really needed anything from her because I didn't really get much from her. So for a long time I have been thinking that many of my issues were connected to wanting to have my dad back and to be special and cared about and paid attention to by an older authoritative man. That is loaded. Now I am starting to see that those same qualities can come from and should come from moms as well as dads.

I get the indifference thing. I was talking to a friend about it and I was like Why would I try to get attention from my mother? It's like trying to drink pizza--first, eww, and second, why would you even try it? Now I get that my dad's loss may have been less damaging than my mom's presence, in a way.

It's hard.

quote:

I didn't know it would hurt so much to realise what I've never known - how 2 people can connect and see each other. I didn't know how hard it was to be seen...

I agree with Iris on this. In the past few months I have started to feel some of those things with my T and a couple of other people, and when I feel it, it hurts so much I cry and cry and hyperventilate and get dizzy and have to sit down or pull over. I had to pull over into the parking lot of the Honeybaked Ham store a few weeks ago for fifteen minutes, and I ended up late for an appointment.

Anyway Anon, it sounds like what you have realized is HUGE. I hope that you will find a spiritual mom and others to walk part of your journey with you.

((Anon))

Firstly I know you've had a very tough time on these forums recently, so welcome back and I'm so glad to see you posting

I have been acutely aware of my need for a mother these last couple of weeks. My mum abused me horrifically as a child and then died when I was 16. This longing has been so bad that I have even looked online to see if there are people out there interested in adopting orphaned adults and felt so pathetic and humiliated just even putting those search terms into google.

I can closely relate to knowing you need a mother but not wanting your own, and similar to you my awareness has become more heightened as I've mothered my son. I would have tremendous difficulty taking in positive things from a mother figure as well.

I'm sorry I don't have too many wise words, but I wanted to let you know I understand and empathise with what you're going through. Hugs to you xxxx

((((Non))))

What a tough realization.. I think what you're facing is probably the toughest part of healing - it's acknowledging the truth of what we didn't have but so desperately needed.

(((((anon))))

Just a mum to give a hug, hold a hand, ask 'and how are you?' A mum to take you shopping and mybe buy you a little treat just because you're her daughter and you care. A mum to talk things through with, share hopes and thoughts with.....I've wished for all these things It's funny, sometimes you don't realise til you are older what you never had until you see others' relationships with their mums.

My grown up daughter still says I am her best friend, so I know she hasn't got the same regrets as me and that makes me very glad in my heart I have a feeling that your daughter won't have those regrets either Nony

starfishy

Searching - (((hugs))) Thanks for relating. Half the time I think my mom was/is good enough and the problem is actually all on my side. I've never, ever searched for a female person to be this for me. Only men. It's a new thing for me to even entertain the idea that a woman could be comforting. I don't know what is triggering it at all. I totally relate to the guilt thing, because no matter what my mom did or did not do, or my dad, I feel like my needing anyone else is betraying them. I spent years shutting out those sort of relationships, running from them once others started to express caretaking toward me, because it felt like such a betrayal. Like, I was the one who screwed it up and I didn't deserve to replace them. I don't know if that makes sense. Thanks for thinking I'm a great mom.

Iris - I'm so sorry for what you experienced with your mom, being left and having to be a caretaker. I always lived with my mom, but the amount of neglect, T has said, is akin to abandonment. I definitely get being a protector to your parents, because I feel that way as well. I actually had a closer relationship with my dad, so I relate to the "never knew" my mom more, even though I always lived with her. I gave up on her so early. I totally get the push-pull of substitute attachment figures. It's really confusing to me, because parts of me can accept what T offers, and other parts not. I think it would be much harder with a woman, because so few of us have a positive concept of women. (((Iris)))

(((PeeJay))) You really nailed the feeling of futility there. It's crushing, this sort of, "It just doesn't matter...what's the point?" There are a lot of times I do really struggle in seeing what my daughter has, what I'm not even sure how I learned to offer her but seems just natural, and not understanding why it wasn't natural for my own mom to do the same. But, I try to have forgiveness for her, because I really believe that no one wants to be toxic to their kids. If she was, it's because something in her own experiences stuck her there. Maybe I'm too generous, or maybe not generous enough. I never know.

(((RedTomato))) - I'm so sorry about you losing your mom. I'm glad you did get to repair to some extent, but it must be so painful that the work went unfinished. When I think about repairing, just...I don't want it at all. I want to be kind to her. What I want is to be the sort of kid who would give her that, but it's something I want for her, not something I want for me? I want to be fair to her, to be kind, to love her better than I can. But, I don't want HER. I feel awful about it. Maybe it's just that after all this time, it's impossible for me to trust things will ever be different, regularly seeing her have bust ups with other family members and still behaving with so much toxicity. I love her...but not in a way that would ever allow me to need her. I just...can't. Does that make me horrible?

Quell - (((hugs))) I really relate to how you experienced your parents. My dad didn't die, but he was in and out of my life and pretty much faded from it in junior high. I'm so sorry you lost your dad. For a long time, I have been focused on replacing the good parts of what I had from my dad, I mean, not intentionally, but I have always noticed myself be drawn to that dynamic (while simultaneously running from it). Like trying to drink pizza...yeah, that's exactly it, ewww, and impossible. Mostly other parts take in from T, but lately I've been trying to stay present in it and it is overwhelming to me, triggering so many responses. I don't know if I'll ever find a spiritual mom, because I won't look for one, but maybe if one plops down in my general vicinity, I'll be in a place to recognize the opportunity.

(((GreenEyes))) - I'm so sorry your mom hurt you so bad and then to lose any chance to address it when she died. I can't even imagine how painful it must have been. We should start an orphaned adult service for all us out there. My own mom didn't do a ton of stuff directly to me (other than neglect, emotional abuse and a little other stuff), but she was just extremely toxic and exposed our family to so much bad through her own pathology. She's not at all a safe person, but at the same time, it's still really hard for me to call her abusive, despite everyone who hears about how I grew up thinking I way underestimate the whole thing. Thank you for empathizing. (((more hugs)))

(((kashley))) - It really seems to be the toughest, because I fight it so hard. It doesn't make sense to me to have needed it. I think I determined what I was allowed to need based on what was available, so going the other way around seems very backwards to me.

starfishy - (((hugs))) yeah, the hardest part is that my mom will try to do some of those things, but they turn out bad, controlling, or in some other way. She didn't hug me from at least 10 to 20 that I remember, except like group pictures maybe she had an arm around me. She wants to spend time with me, but every time I let her do it (again, for her, not for me), it turns out the same, whether it is overt or subtle. She can only relate through control, through destroying boundaries. I can't live like that. It really is confusing to see other peoples' relationships with their parents and just...not get it. I hope I have a good one with Boo when she is grown.

Thanks to all who related to me here.

I did talk to T a little bit about it last night and he thought it was a good thing. It felt good that, even though it was scary, I was able to share with him. I love that guy.

(((RT))) Thank you for sharing. I'm sorry your mom wasn't able to be what you needed as a kid, but glad you were able to relate to her as an adult. I can relate to not wanting your mom to know anything about you. The first time she showed up at a major school event for me (senior awards, she came for the first part), I was actually angry, because it felt like something I did in spite of her and how growing up in her home was and she was there trying to make it something she had helped me achieve. In the end, genetically, obviously she contributed, and even some of my pathology has "helped" me achieve, so I guess she can take some credit there. I guess I felt from an early age that she really had nothing to do with me except she was another charge I was to care for. I know my mom would be there for me in some of the ways you mentioned, but there is always a price, a debt to be collected, to the point where I am terrified to even receive a gift from her.

There are many things I love about my mom, like her creativity. And that's probably the area we have most in common and where I have gotten a lot from her. I also try to believe in her good intentions, even though it does seem like there is always an ulterior motive (I try to ignore that and think as well of her as possible). But, she is just not a safe person and we have very little in common beyond music. She spent decades cheating and defrauding the government to the point where she could spend years in jail (and used it as an excuse of why we could never speak of what our house was like) and is still neglecting her last minor child. I just...can't relate to her...can't want her as a mom. I maybe could want her as a music teacher and that's about it.

It makes me sad that I don't think it will ever change, not because I am not willing to accept her attempts to be involved with me and Boo (I always let her try), but because I doubt in her desire and ability to be a mostly safe person. My T has said she sounds both narcissistic and sociopathic, at least to a degree. I don't know that I can ever feel safe being close. As it is, I fake openness and closeness as much as possible, because it keeps her from invading my boundaries further. And I say all this with the greatest empathy for her, because she has been through a lot, and I know she wouldn't be this way if it weren't the only way SHE feels safe. I want to protect her from the reality of who she has been in my life and in my siblings', but that protection causes such devastating splitting inside that I think to be fair to me, I'm going to have to let her be what she is...a person I care about deeply, but can never want as a mother.

I sure hope I'm wrong. I feel broken everyday, because I cannot find a healthy way to relate to the person who brought me into the world. I don't need her to be my mom. But, I'd like to be able to offer her having a daughter, and a granddaughter. I guess, like always, I'm still trying to take care of her and what she needs. I wish I had ever found a safe way of doing that without wounding myself.

((Anon))

It was never up to you to look after her. As an adult you and Boo come first. She's so lucky to have you as her mother.

Thanks, it's been devastating growing up never having a mum or anyone who loved or protected me the way a parent should and its left me broken hearted. It's especially tough at the moment because its Mother's Day on Sunday and I can't step into a store without having all the hype shoved in my face. I really do wish someone would adopt me as their daughter

(((RT))) I know whatever I'm meant to have, if I remain open to it (which my T is teaching me how to do), it will be provided for me. The lady he introduced me to, who although much older gives me a big sister or maybe young aunt vibe more than a mom vibe at all, despite being my mom's age, said that she did all of her early therapy work with women, until she was finally ready to heal in being able to relate to men and learn to feel safe there. I wonder whether that might be a place I get to someday (with the caveat that I've decided I'm going to keep my T forever and he cannot escape me, even if I work with someone else ). Maybe there are some things I will resolve through working directly with a woman in some capacity (in the WAY OFF future), whether formal or informal.

(((GreenEyes))) I hear you. Mother's Day is really hard. Usually, all the siblings go and watch my mom play (she's a musician) at one of her gigs, and bring her flowers and balloons. She really loves that sort of attention, and does the, "This is the daughter who has her own business" (sister), "This is the daughter who graduated from ______," (me), etc. thing. It's all about showing how amazing of a mom she is. Last year, I didn't go and felt awfully guilty. I probably won't go again this year, not because I don't want to honor her (at the very least, I wouldn't exist, and neither would Boo, without her), but because it's a lot of driving to any of her gigs and often destabilizing to see her. Church always makes a deal out of mother's day too, and the person who is teaching the series we're in (not our main pastor) always triggers me as it is. He is one of those unrelatable, perfect childhood people who doesn't seem to have a clue about the real world. Nice guy, but he talks from a perspective that I just can't understand. Anyway, I hope we both make it through the next week relatively unscathed.

Lots of hugs to anyone who is having a hard time with Mother's Day coming up.