i really think i am quitting dbt today

jillMember

i have an hour and a half appointment, at 'halftime' i am going to check in with my gut. and, make that decision and at least have the rest of the session to talk about it.

she does not 'get' me. she does not seem to see my inherent worth as a person. i am alone in that room. it is not working. she looks at me like a science project and not a person. she does not reach IN to who i am, and believe in me. just like my parents didn't know who i was or beleive in me...or care...

she does not 'engage'. she does not care. she thinks of me as just another hour on another day. and does not seem committed to reaching me where i need to be reached. not that i know where that is, but, she should. it has been six months. i am no better with her. if anything, being with her has brought out the sickness in me more.

i am disappointed, but, i gave it six months. and, i need someone who believes in me. who sees my worth. i can't have a repeat of my parents who were not engaged in knowing WHO i am, who do not see my uniqueness and worth.

i am pissed.

but, she brings me down, or, being in there brings me down.

i am pursuing psychoanalysis, and have met someone i like. he does not see me as a basketcase. he seems to bring out my worth and my self confidence. more carl rogers-ish. i asked if he was just 'shining me on', and i don't think he is.

i feel bad quitting anything, without seeing it through. but, this just makes me sicker it seems. we don't learn enough skills, it always seems to be crisis management, and the crisis generally revolves around my acceptance, or lack of feeling accepted in there. it brings me to anger and groveling and crying and feeling like the five year old i am trying to outgrow. and just staying in that state is making my present life just pass before my eyes, without me being in it.

i am not there to win her approval, but that seems to be the issue i face every week. with no success. i feel like a loser in there. sad, mad, alone...a loser. and, really, i am NOT a loser. i've got some stuff going on, but the person i bring in there is not the person i am...i don't know if it is her or me, or dbt. but, i can't bring my essence in there, apparently. and, without empathy and kindness. jsut a cold distance between us, i can't get out of the hole i crawl into in there.

it is quite mysterious. but, it is like a dark trench coat that covers my entire body that i have to wear to feel safe in there. and i am so hidden, and so repressed, and so absurd, that i just want to cry out "this is NOT ME" you don't know me!!! if you did, you would like me. i am a nice person. i have value. i am kind. i do love, i do have relationships, i am not the sicko you think i am. i am not jumping off XXX! (a highway overpass) you don't know me, if you did, you would know how to help me. i have been an open book for six months and you tell me 'i talk in code'. i pour my brain and my soul out, weekly, and try to stuff it all back in and function, but i can't do that anymore. i am crying for help, but you don't hear me. just like my parents. THIS is re-traumatizing!! enough!

so.

i am really not a quitter, but, that is where i am.

i don't know what i am posting here about, but, maybe i wish she was reading this and could save me. not that i am sui. at all, just, i hate to leave unfinished business. i wish it was working.

i want to argue with her. i want to ENGAGE!

i want a reaction, i want to be seen. i can't go climb into her dark pit once a week without seeing a light at the end of her tunnel. i am NOT a quitter, so this really goes against my grain, but we don't learn skills!!! we crisis-manage, and the crisis centers around the lack of worth i see in her eyes. enough.

wish me luck, jill

1/19/115:58 AM

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strummergirlMember

Hi Jill,

I so very much hear what you are crying out for - wanting to argue, wanting to engage, wanting a reaction, wanting to be seen. And personally I think these are very good things to want. I have experienced not getting them with a couple of different T's and also in my personal life and am still in the process of working that out, so I really feel your pain. Like you said, you've given this situation plenty chances to work, and you see the trend is moving in the wrong direction. The good news is (I think) that you know and value yourself enough to protest and fight for what you need, even to the point of "quitting". I know that word has some negative connotations for you, but I've come to believe, through my own experiences of staying in situations that are not working for FAR too long, that it is perfectly okay to "quit" doing things that are only bringing you more harm. The in-between place is scary and shaky, but there comes a time when you just know there's got to be something better and so you become willing to take that risk. Sounds like you are there now and I applaud you for taking the jump.

Good luck today with your decision, and good luck with the new psychoanalyst, if that is what you decide to pursue. I look forward to your updates. ((((Jill))))

Hugs,
SG

1/19/116:19 AM

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jillMember

oh, strummergirl, if i ever received a real cyber hug, it was from you.

thank you for your support. i really need it, and thank you for understanding that need to engage, to argue.

it is a weird sense, but, it is boiling right now,

thanks for really hearing me and helping me think i am NOT crazy.

xxooxxoo, jill

1/19/116:29 AM

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ButterflyMember

Hi Jill,

I think I have read a few posts now where you haven't been happy with your DBT T and I am sorry that the realtionship hasn't improved and is causing you so much upset.

Fwiw I don't think you are a quitter at all as you are recognising that unless things change, to continue would be of no benefit to you as this T doesn't seem to know or get you at all therefore you are thinking of other ways to gain what it is you need to develop and heal which is far from what I beleive quitting to be.

Good luck today..do what you feel is right for you.

Butterfly

1/19/116:34 AM

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janedoeMember

Jill
I have to say I am frustrated with your DBT T too. DBT is not about just crisis management - but actually being able to avoid them - and skills learning. You said something about buying the book in another post... and I thought, wait, she didn't give you the workbook? Your DBT T sounds like trying to push against a wall that isn't there. The need you feel for engagement sounds very real and makes a lot of sense to me - my T calls it the need for "contact."

I have encountered a DBT T who I could not stand, and quickly got caught in bad loop with her. Now I see a DBT T who uses other tyoes of therapy too, and also teaches skills all the time.

I don't think it's the type of therapy, but the type of therapy being done alone, without other therapies as they fit what you need, and DBT therapy being done badly...

I don't think you are quitting at all but really doing the right thing. I think it is great to talk with her about your concerns, check in with your gut, a.k.a. "wise mind" - check in with what your emotions and thoughts tell you would be the most effective for your growth and healing - and then go back in and work with the T on moving in that direction - either staying with her or moving on.

You are not a quitter and this is good proof that you are not giving up on your therapy and what is best for you and what will help you the most.

I hope and pray it goes well and that you leave the session with a sense of peace that whatever you deceide, you are doing a good job of navigating really hard and frustrating things.

so sorry you are hurting and your T hasn't been more helpful.

~ jane

1/19/116:55 AM

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True NorthCo-moderator

Jill... I don't have much time right now but I wanted to say that I'm sorry you are in such awful pain over dbt gal and I think it's a very healthy thing to realize this is not what you want and to go out and find what you do need.

Try not to think of it as "quitting". Think of it as "change" and change is growth and that is good.

I look forward to hearing more about this Psychoanalytic T that you have found. Can you tell us more now?

Good luck
TN

1/19/117:17 AM

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jillMember

thanks all. i am running out the door, but really, i am not in awful pain. i feel relieved.

y'all are right, we haven't learned skills. i have no worksheets, even the diary card i have to print out on my computer. she keeps the handouts. we haven't even touched on interpersonal effectiveness skills. and it has been six months.

i am such a sucker for assuming the 'expert' knows best.

geez.

thank you for your support, and for pointing these things out to me.

i have wasted so much money with lousy t's.

pa guy looks good. details later.

right now, i need support and generally nudges toward the right path. and i think he can do that. older man. kind, gentle.

'likes' me, i can tell. in a good way. believes in me. does NOT think i am borderline. does NOT think i need anti-depressants. thinks all this is psychological, and unconscious conflict, and just really seems to believe in me. understands midlife changes, is not afraid to talk about existential issues, does not jot down 'delusional' when i talk about the meaning and purpose of life, and in some ways, how so much is so empty...not in a sad way, but more reflective. big houses REALLY mean nothing, looks fade, it IS family and friends, and those relationships that matter.

mature, 78!!

kind.

the pa to the pa's in town, semi-retired. only takes people he likes. (he didn't tell me that, but the referring pa somewhat did). i am past my trial period, and i am pursuing approving, kind eyes. i've had enough of the other.

pray for no 'fall out'!! jill

1/19/118:19 AM

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ladygreyMember

Jill,

I know you are not a quitter, but I really think that staying in this therapy that you know is not working for you is actually quitting in a sense because you know you are not making progress there. I think you should terminate with her, but not quit the journey of self-imrpovement. Find another DBT T....one who "gets" you and treats you with respect and compassion.

Good luck.

1/19/119:20 AM

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blackbirdMember

Hi, jill...I'm sorry that this is so hard for you. I've expereinced so much of the same. I have nothing to offer, because I can't figure out what I think myself anymore, I'm so confused about my therapy. If you are fairly certain that it's not you who thinks she is reacting so negatively, than moving on seems to be your best option, I can understand that. You are no quitter. 6 months is agood long haul. Have you experineced any relief with her? I wish my T would teach me how to do stuff too, but it just doesn't seem to be the way he works- I can certainly relate to having nothing to fall back on when the going gets tough.

Yuck. I find it strange that my T is the opposite of yours in terms of empathy, and caring, etc...and yet I so often feel the same way. I wonder why that is. I hope you find some answer. I feel for you.

Let us know how you are...

1/19/119:51 AM

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lieseMember

Jill,

FWIW, I agree with the others that you are not a quitter. Being someone also who has stayed in situations far too long and who needs to learn the skill of moving on, I speak from experience. And, sometimes it doesn't necessarily mean that you are quitting, just looking at something that makes you unhappy and needs addressing.

HUGS,

Liese

1/19/111:23 PM

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jillMember

kinda brutal. i was nice, but told her i wanted to quit. first, i had her show me skills and said we never do that. she went through interpersonal effectiveness stuff. it was helpful. she IS nice. she is fairly 'flat on affect', and dry, and i think really tried to do well by me. to show me her care.

i told her i didn't see empathy, 'no offense', but i was honest about that. she said perhaps i need someone with more affect. i told her i didn't think anyone really cared about me, so, maybe it is me, not her. and it could be.

the whole session just hurt. my head was so bruised on the inside, i took my migraine meds, and promptly threw up on the drive home.

it just hurts too bad in there. i don't really understand why. i told her i just HATE the person i am in there. that THAT is not ME. and i hate that person, and i want to not be that person anymore and the only way i can get away from it is to quit. she stressed that THAT is my pattern...avoid emotion, and that i need to work through it or it WILL creep up again. she could be right.

she asked me to come in next time and we will discuss a wise mind approach to quitting, and see if i can convince her. i told her i don't expect to convince her of that.

she shared a few things, i asked her why she does this. she is in a tough profession, and i guess, her flat affect keeps her WAY out of emotional mind, which helps her in some ways.

she did try. she isn't a bad person. she hasn't done much skills, but she picked it up today.

i emailed her when i got home and said i need a breather, and to take me off the books the rest of the month, and let's look at maybe february picking it up again.

i haven't heard from her.

i also thought to go every other week, to reduce the stress on me. this therapy just hurts. i can't explain it.

anyway, i am brain dead, thanks for y'all's support, and i am too beat to respond much more.

oh, i hurt all over.

jill

1/19/114:22 PM

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jillMember

janedoe. thanks for your kind words. i went to bed at 6:45pm, a new record! and slept pretty well. so i feel better this am.

uv, i do have mother issues, and i am sure that comes into play in there. but then, with men, i just want to please them, so, there is an issue with that, as i am reluctant to 'fight'. with women, i assume they hate me and are conniving..so, really, a gay male 65+ would be ideal. i don't think i can punch that into psychology todays therapist search!!

yes, i have a sinister super ego. he recognized that in two seconds. says i 'pull out the whip too fast'. and i have this id that never got to play, and somewhere in between is a shriveled up ego, that needs it's hormones checked!! you are right on.

y'no? i can't even QUIT therapy.

she responded very well to the email i sent her, and, by golly...i think she might be sincere. this sounds weird, but, she is so pretty, that she just seems to have it all figured out, and i, contrasting on the couch, am feeling haggered, and can't believe this pretty gal would really want to help me.

she is dry. she doesn't seem to have alot of emotion....maybe she has done so much therapy herself, that she had 'licked' that problem. i dunno.

maybe there is something to the dbt. it sure does 'hurt'. much moreso than any other therapy i have done. that prying into 'what are you feeling now' just opens up wounds and feelings that hurt SOOOOO much. is that good??

i don't know.

i do know, i need to make changes to make myself happier. there is a part of me that wants to try to convince the world that MY way is actually right, and everyone else is WRONG!

i need to be assertive. i punish myself for deviating outside of the lines of 'niceness', and then pull out the whip and beat myself.

God, i need therapy! i am going to do both. and maybe he can repair the wounds opened in dbt. he is so nice. so cute, in his 78-years old-ness. the father i never had, and always wanted and needed. ....can married 50 year olds be adopted?? i did ask him that...i hide my transference well, don't i!!

oh, y'all are the best. thank you, and i hope one day to help y'all, too!!

glad to see you back, uv!!

xxoo, jill

1/20/115:58 AM

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rubyMember

Jill,
While I don't feel like I am in a place where I can offer any advice, I do want to let you know that you posting this has really helped me. I'm kind of a newbie to the boards....Even though you are struggling though some awful emotions, reading your initial post somehow comforted me. To be able to know that someone else in the world struggles the same way I do makes me feel somehow connected (hope that's not weird).While the cause of my feelings (anger, sadness, loneliness..) differ from yours, just reading your internal dialogue gave me hope...

FWIW I think you are courageous, for talking to your T about these feelings, and for knowing that it is an option to leave if it's not working for you.

1/20/119:45 AM

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jillMember

ruby, first off, welcome here! i have found it a good safe place to say, almost, whatever i want and not 'lose face' or have to explain the weird world of therapy to outsiders!!

so, i am glad you are here, and, your words really touched my heart.

i am glad my ranting could help someone. so, thank you for your kind words.

i don't know about courageous, but, i'll take it.

i think instead of going every week, i am going to, for now, go every other week.

she really did try, and has, and i know alot of my irritation with her is unfounded. NOT ALL!! but, there is no 'insta-cure' for this stuff.

i hope taking the pressure off of myself, but not, yet, quitting, will help. and really, she is as good a dbt as i think there is. there are only four in my town, three in her office, and the fourth i talked to on the phone originally and didn't like.

so, that is where i am.

and hopefully, all this drama with her is just 'grist for the mill', and will help.

one thing she did say, that i hadn't really looked at, is that 'we' are in a relationship, and she doesn't seem to want to walk away. she seems sincere...not passionate, by any means!!...but sincere in her wanting to help me. so, i am just going to...for NOW, trust that. take the pressure off. explore pa with this new guy, and see where it goes.

amazing what 12 hours of sleep will do!!

much better day. even in her email she encouraged me of ways to, today, reduce the emotional pain. so, that is where i am.

xxoo all, jill

1/20/1111:14 AM

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jillMember

man, i just don't do exposure therapy well. that last deal was a blood letting. she knows, i threw up on the way home i was so blasted. and really, she isn't pushing me too hard. it just hurts.

so,

i am not quitting, for good. BUT, i am taking a month off! and i feel the weight of the world off of my shoulders!!

schools out for summmer!!

then, when i come back, assuming i don't have an insta-cure in the meantime, we are doing skills every other week, and the dreaded therapy, on the off weeks...but, i reserve the right to just do skills for awhile.

this is the hardest therapy i have ever had, i hate it with a passion.

went to pa today. i like him. i'm going to see him in the meantime, and reevaluate at a later date.

i cried in there, but, he is so soothing and caring and fatherly. i just don't feel stranded with him. for some reason, i am not able to access any empathy from the dbt gal. i think, in a way, they have to keep their emotions so in check, with some of the really tough things they work with, that, since i am not sui. of si, i don't know, she just doesn't realize how much i hurt. i feel so judged there. and 'liked' just seems to not be an available emotion. really, i think she is fine. she REALLY has tried this week with me. we have talked a few times, she offered a skills class with another t to me, but i don't want to get to know another dbt t. and, i just don't want my head in all this stuff every week. really, the trauma going to therapy is more than the trauma remembering for the treatment. too, i think i revealed something a bit too personal and a bit too soon for our relationship. and the reciprocity in empathy or attunement, just didn't manufacture right. she probably made some slight errors in judgment, and i really flamed on that. and, i don't know, my guard is just really up there.

despite the safety she assures me of...and i really believe her words, but, my body senses alarm.

anyway, pa guy seems to really like me, in an appropriate way. he is kind. he smiles and engages and laughs, and just seems to reel me in and reel me out at his will, and very adeptly. i feel comfortable with him. i trust him, so far. my 'alerts' are not up with him, and he has a very dark office....just like i like!! too, ... i like men better than women, and i am sure that is some of it (except for y'all of course!!)

anyway, that is me. jill

i hope i don't crater. but right now, i feel twenty pounds lighter just not having to think about therapy with her. poor sweet lady. she is really a nice person. i am just a real weiney when it comes to trauma...like i say, i don't like sad movies. denial and repression are my game!! avoid it if you don't like it and WISH it away!! hee hee...i'm going with that for now tho! xxoo

1/21/114:32 PM

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ladygreyMember