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I screamed at my T

mad hattermad hatterMember
Yeah, like for 5 minutes straight before I ran out of things to say.

I guess that's why my name is MAD Hatter. Roll Eyes Not having a good therapy day. Frowner

On the 40 min. drive to my appt. this morning I was trying to psych myself into talking to T about a really hard subject matter that I have been trying to avoid since day one. Because I know I'm just dancing around it and not going forward. My T keeps trying to assure me that she is not a judge and isn't going anywhere, no matter what, and she's thinking I might find some relief if I could just trust her with it.

Well, once again, it didn't happen. And right now I am glad about that.

It's such a long story. I don't know how to make it short and make sense at the same time, but here's my attempt:

I wanted the door to the reception area to be closed during my session. It's a separate door from the therapy room door. There is a "play room" between the receptionist area and the therapy room, and I just wanted another layer of safety in feeling that my conversations would not be overheard, and to reduce the amount of outside noise that distracts me. (I am constantly distracted in session by any outside noise -- voices, the phone ringing, outside door opening and closing, etc.) My T had previously agreed during earlier sessions that we could do this, but because she doesn't normally do it then it was supposed to be up to me to remind her.

The short of it is, I reminded her today, and she refused.

So I stewed and fumed silently about it for maybe 10 minutes, and realized I wasn't going to be able to talk about Anything Else because it was ALL I could think about, that she had denied me this reasonable request for no (IMO) good reason. Mad

And then I just snapped. I started screaming at her about it. Like, loud screaming. I am sure the receptionist heard every word. Red Face And once I started, I couldn't stop. So it went on for awhile.

Naturally, I didn't feel like opening up when I was done with my tirade. So the rest of the time was spent in Complete Silence, except for the last 5 minutes when my T tried to smooth things over, but without conceding anything.

I just needed to vent. Some more.
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mad hattermad hatterMember
LG, the thing is that she did it deliberately, knowing it would piss me off. She pretty much admitted that at the end. All she is trying to do is exercise control over me, because she says as long as I control everything then I can't trust her and I won't progress. It's not like it was hurting anyone else to close that door. And maybe I could have opened up to her, if the space had felt safe enough. But not now.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
Frowner That hurts me to hear. I don't think leaving the door open or closing has anything to do with your trust in her. It's just what you need to feel safe. That would be like my T telling me I don't trust him, because I ask him to make the lights dim or I want the table moved or I feel better sitting on the floor. If he made it a trust issue, that would really hurt. It was months before I sorted out exactly why the lights were scary to me and it is a VERY specific reason that has nothing whatsoever to do with my T and how safe he is. I'm sorry her refusal derailed your session, MH. Frowner I'm glad you confronted her about it. It sounds like something that really needs to be addressed, especially if she has no specific reason for needing it open. I wish she would have responded better and you didn't have to leave feeling an opportunity had been blown. I hope she's able to repair this with you next time. When do you go again? Or is it too hard to even think about it right now? When T has done something very upsetting, sometimes I cannot even imagine talking to him in the near future...but of course, I always do in the end.

((((hugs)))) Totally here if you want to keep venting!!!
mad hattermad hatterMember
She compared me to a scared little horse that has to learn how to trust or I'm always going to be running -- like breaking a horse so it will allow someone else to be in control. She says she has to control me "somewhat," that she was giving me an opportunity to not get my way, that I had to see her as strong before I could learn to trust her. She said she believed there were "difficult waters" ahead for me, and that if I can't trust her to hold me then I'll never come.

So apparently she has to fabricate things to take away from my control, for no other reason than she wants me to see her as strong. But supposedly this is for my own good.

I just can't swallow it. My mind hurts just trying to understand her logic.
mad hattermad hatterMember
Yaku, I wanted to run out of there today when I was only 15 minutes into the session. I almost bolted from the couch. But if there is one thing I have learned, its that whenever I run away and cancel appointments or threaten to terminate, I always suffer even more. I do not want to talk to her or text her right now. But I know that if I say to myself that I will for sure never see her again then I will go down that SU path of despair again. So I'm just trying not to think about how or when I will interact with her next.
yakusokuyakusokuMember
I'm not sure that logic makes sense to me. Maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like she's making her boundaries about you, and...just yuck. I would think there have to be boundaries that are about her and what she can/can't offer as a T that she could use as an exercise for demonstrating herself as a strong, reliable figure. I mean, if she had a reason that was about what she needs to do as a T, as much as that would suck, that would be a different case. But, she's told you before this is something that can be done, but then changes her mind without notice, so she can show you she has the reigns? I really don't get it. That reminds me of times I have thought my T was purposefully triggering me. I have been manipulated enough times in my life that the whole idea made me ill. Frowner

I'm like: Mad Confused

Sorry I brought up something that is too hard to think about right now. Maybe just focus on continuing to talk through how you are feeling in this moment if it helps?
mad hattermad hatterMember
I agree with you. What you wrote made more sense. Why should she make a boundary that she doesn't need? And why should I trust her more for going back on our agreement? It seems I should trust her less instead. I find myself getting angrier the more I think about it. I want to scream at her in text now, except that I don't want to give her the satisfaction that I "gave in" and texted. I don't want to need anything from her. But I do. Frowner
mad hattermad hatterMember
Screw it. I texted her anyway to tell her how I feel. she doesn't get to silence me. I told her I trust her LESS when she goes back on agreements. I wrote that she can't FORCE trust, she can only earn it by not violating it. And I told her that she doesn't get to say if I feel safe, only I get to say how I feel. If I feel unsafe, that's what matters, not her interpretation of whether I really am safe or not.
sdsdMember
Hey Madhatter.

This kinda happened to me 2 weeks ago. I was imploding and exploding because I was scared of telling youngT about my SI. She had already got heavy me with some SU stuff and I didn't feel safe telling her about SI - despite everyone here supporting me and telling me how important it was. That extreme anxiety - literally ATE me away.

That caused a huge series of events with me - subtance abuse, not sleeping for days at a time, huge stress, paranoia - that lead (i believe) to apsychotic break where I thought I heard my friend telling me that young T had lied to me. I flipped out and sent aggressive emails.

I know what it feels inside when you know you need to tell your T something and you can't do it. I know that feeling. I didn't get a chance to do it as I was terminated - not for my pychotic outburst but for our conflict of interest. Plus - Young t was in over her head with me Roll Eyes

Write it all down and give it to T to read to take the emotion out of it, but still to communicate to her. I don't necessarily mean the issue you can't talk about - I mean what was happening for you before and during and after the session. She needs to know the impact it has and had on you.

When I flipped out during session, wasn't speaking - my T just sat there and did and said nothing. Really annoyed me. Sometimes though - these total blowouts - can really help in the long term. Just don't run from them, when you are able try and face it and work through it with her.
ladygreyladygreyMember
MH,

I know you were not wanting to cave in and text her but I'm glad you texted her with what you did. You are right to stand up for yourself. I don't think she handled the situation well today at all. I get what you are saying about her doing it on purpose but I still don't agree with her approach. It only seems to have upset you.
mad hattermad hatterMember
Somedays, thank you for sharing. I have to say that I was shaken up by what happened to you with young T and had to have a discussion about it with my own T. I'm so sorry for what you've been through. You seem to be doing amazingly well under the circumstances.

I'm trying not to run because I recognize that what I feel right now may not be what I feel in the morning, or in a few days, or whatever. And I don't want to sabotage things...well, at least part of me doesn't want that to happen. It's so hard to trust myself and my current viewpoint when I have such internal change going on constantly.
mad hattermad hatterMember
LG, Yaku, thanks for your support. I've had more text exchange with T since I've posted last. Felt good to express myself, but frustrating that T is not yielding.

Maybe on the surface it appears to be a small thing that I am making a big deal about. Why am I letting it get under my skin so much that T now won't "let" me shut that door? It's just a door, right?

But its just that I HATE feeling controlled, especially for reasons that appear to be logically unjustified. So now I'm locked in this power struggle that she created.

So I texted T that I can shut the door if I want to, that what is she going to do about it? It's not a crime!

She wrote back that she would open it. Lovely. Can you just picture us playing a game of "Open, shut them. Open, shut them." Then I told her that I thought I would just choose to sit in the play room for next session, and would she still keep the door to it open then? It's not like she's going to pick me up and move me. So now I am sensing a sinister part of me wanting to play out this sick competition of wills just for fun.

However, there was a tiny thought in the back of my mind tonight that caught a glimpse of what she might be trying to accomplish, and it softened me. A little. I'm going to sleep on it.

Thanks for supporting my venting.
mad hattermad hatterMember
Its not going good at all. not at all. She says change is the only way I can trust her. But her change means lies. Twice in a month she has gone back on an agreement. Who in their right mind truly believes and insists that the way for a client to trust is to put up with the T's broken agreements? No questions asked?

I think this is the end. It must be what she wants or she would not be doing this to me. I feel like I will never trust anyone ever again.
scaredtoriskmyselfscaredtoriskmyselfCo-moderator
quote:
I told her I trust her LESS when she goes back on agreements. I wrote that she can't FORCE trust, she can only earn it by not violating it. And I told her that she doesn't get to say if I feel safe, only I get to say how I feel. If I feel unsafe, that's what matters, not her interpretation of whether I really am safe or not.


EXACTLY!! I don't understand her logic at all and I think that there are many other ways for you to have growth opportunities and times to step out of your comfort zone without something as ridiculous as her refusing to close a door especially when she had already agreed to it. It's not like you asked her to empty the entire office and make everyone else leave. I'm sorry MH but this makes me really angry on your behalf. (((hugs)))
mad hattermad hatterMember
The conversation between me and T this morning went like this...

MH: You agreed several sessions ago that I could close that door. [and we have done it a few times before too, not just talked about it] You gave no conditions except you asked me to remind you [to do it]. So your refusal was a violation of that trust. How can you say I am controlling everything when you previously already agreed to it? Is it controlling to expect you to keep a deal and be upset when you dont? I will not, cannot trust when you Lie. Unless/until you honor your agreement, I cant come back. It's futile if you lie. Such sorrowful despair if this means goodbye.

T: This is called crossing the pond. If you dont want to come dont. I hope you will because its your only real hope.

MH: If I am to cross then you must mean what you say. You want me to trust even when you betray me.

T: You have to be able to trust me and change is the only way to help you practice it. I didn't betray you. I asked you not to close the door. I hope you come. If not I am sad to say goodbye.

MH: I cant believe you are doing this. I will not allow you to mentally abuse and retraumatize me. Now I trust NO ONE forever.

T: I see very little movement to trust and if you dont trust you cant do the work you need to. I dont have twenty years for this to unfold at this pace and I promised I would see you through. I have to push you some. You dont want that so I wish you well. Will miss you.

I am supposed to see her for a 5-10 minute check-in this afternoon right before my son's appointment. I don't know what I will say to her at this point. Am I blowing this out of proportion? I don't understand how anything she has done is supposed to help me. I feel myself going backwards. And it hurts that she feels I haven't made hardly any progress either. I don't know what else she wants from me, unless its total and complete submission.
True NorthTrue NorthCo-moderator
MH I am sorry you are not getting anywhere with this and that you are hurting so much. I do understand and I would be hurt also. I have asked my T to close the blinds in his office because it's so damn bright in there and I hate that. He does this ALL THE TIME. In fact, last session he forgot and I didn't notice it because the day was a bit cloudy. He jumped up in the middle of our session and closed them and apologized to me for forgetting that.

Your T cannot say "you have to just trust me" she has to BE trustworthy and demonstrate it constantly and CONSISTENTLY. You can't just one day wake up and feel this trust in her. She has to earn it by her consistent and fair behavior. She is not doing that.

You may want to tell her this when you check in with her. It is HER inconsistency that continually shakes your trust.

I hope you can work this out. I know how truly awful it feels when having these kinds of disruptions.

Hugs
TN
mad hattermad hatterMember
Thanks for your hugs and support, Kashley, STRM, and TN. It helps to be able to have someone(s) listen to me and feel heard.

TN, what you wrote makes sense, and I plan to say it to my T. But I've sorta already said that to her yesterday in different words, so I don't have much hope. Her answer to that was that she IS consistent in answering my texts, at least Monday thru Friday. So supposedly that proves she is there for me. I guess she can't connect the dots between going back on an agreement and why I wouldn't trust her to be there for me in the future. She's telling me anything is subject to change.
kashleykashleyMember
I've been having some conversations lately with my T about trusting her, and she fully understands and is okay that I can't trust her yet, even though I've worked with her for over a year and a half. You can't force trust. You can't make yourself trust her if you don't yet.

I can't believe how dismissive she was in her last text to you. I really can't believe most of what she's said in all of her texts.

Did you see your T this afternoon?
sdsdMember
((MH))

I haven't really understood all this until I read the text exchange between your T and you.

MadHatter - I can actually see her side of it. I can see what she is trying to achieve with you - and I don't think she is enjoying this at all, but I think she is taking a stand on this issue to get you to move closer to her on the trust spectrum. I am sure she feels she is taking a big risk challenging you - but she wants you to make the move on trust and keeping that door open is the first step.

I totally get the trust stuff, totally get why you need the door shut - but this is about you and her and the door is just a symbol of this issue.

I think it is great that you and her are exchanging texts like this as you are learning more about it.

MadHatter - keep the door open. Just see what happens and unfolds. If you do I think your T will be there with an open heart, lots of support, pride and I think it might help you.
mad hattermad hatterMember
Yeah, I saw her this afternoon. It turned into a 30-minute visit actually. She tried to explain all her motivations and reasoning behind her tactics and said there was going to be more of this "changing things around" to come because she planned to keep challenging me to trust that she knows what is best for me, even if I don't understand it. She hinted that one day she's going to take texting away, and that made me just want to die inside. I can't handle that. I can't trust that I will ever be happy about that.

The only positive thing I am feeling right now is that I believe she is sincere, that she really thinks this is what she needs to do, to push me this way. For the moment, I don't think her intent is evil. I still think she cares. But I think she's miscalculating my readiness and the potential for this to backfire. Because besides this small comfort, everything else appears bleak to me right now. I feel like this is the beginning of the end, that I've really already lost her. And that thought makes me want to die. Lots of SU and SI thoughts tonight. Just wanting to be numb.

I've decided that if its only a matter of time before she takes away texting support, I might as well give it up now and make it my choice, not hers. I'll just will myself to be the good client who asks for nothing - no favors, no in-between session contact. I'll just show up and speak politely when spoken to. If I ask for nothing, then she can't take anything away.

But I'm in so much pain. I think I'm just going to go away and stop posting now. So thank you for those who have replied, and please understand that its nothing personal if I don't come back here to post more.
J janedoeMember
(((((MH)))))

No need to respond... just wanted to send you hugs and thoughts and say that I totally can relate to how upsetting this would be. I am so sorry..

Trust develops when there is predictability, dependability, not pressured demands just to trust. (I want to go tell your T a thing or two.) I'm so sorry that this happened right when you were going to talk with her about something hard - a true act of trust.

Our Ts have power and control just by being Ts!!! I'm frustrated that she now feels like jerking around with things that help you connect and trust like closed doors and texting... just to get you to trust more?

If she so wants to work on you trusting her, ok, but there has got to be a better way...

If she wants you to "cross the pond" she has to show you she is with you and you won't drown, and that isn't done by rocking the boat like this. Are there not enough things to be challenged to trust our Ts with? Omg. I'm sorry. I'm venting now too about your t... and ts like this... Dang... so sorry your t is being awful like this.

I also want to say that as much as this sucks and has to hurt like hell, it may not be the begining of the end. There is hope. It does sound like she wants you to trust her and you do too, and like to some degree, you do - or this wouldn't hurt like it does. You two are just on different pages right now, and there is a chance, maybe even a good one, that you two can work through this. Maybe you could try telling her how you would like to take steps to trust her (like talking about hard subjects), and what you need from her to do that (like staying true to her word). I dunno. I hope she stops being like this.

Most of all, I hope the deep pain you are in lessens soon. Take good care of you. Do what you need to reach out for support if you need it ok? (Just a little worried about you). It is not the end...

jane

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