AH
I don't have any sure advice, but this stuff made sense to me.

quote:

Consult T said also that anything but complete and total validation is going to cause me to have more and more distress, and I should be building complete confidence in my decision to leave exT, not hearing anything that even approaches dismissing his behavior.

quote:

you need to be completely validated for this to start healing.

I also remembered reading from one of your other posts that New T said that she might work with Old T in the future. Not that she is wrong to work with him, but I remember thinking that it might be hard to know that that was a possibility and to wonder if and when she was working with him.

My thoughts are with you AH.

(((AH)))
sorry it will be a quick message as i have to leave soon, but i wanted to say i heard you and i understand where you're coming from, it makes perfect sense. i was hesitant in posting on your previous thread, because my feeling was that 'something is still not right'. whether she said all the right things or not, how can she believe she will be able to have an unbiased view (or actually she should be more biased towards you to be able to validate you) if she is still in contact with him and might work with him again. shouldnt she declare that a conflict or something, and either decide if she can work it out by limiting contact with him, or ... (please dont hate me for saying this) say that she can't work with you as she wont be able to be objective (and fully available to be on your side) in this situation...?
this is really tough, i'm so sorry you are in this situation...
i hope you can talk to your T and you are able to work it out. do you think you can email or print out this post when you see her, as what you wrote is SO important and i hope you wont minimise this later (i tend to do that!).

you're doing so well, you are listening to your gut and that is really good! but i'm sorry you're in so much pain over this

gentle hugs,

puppet

Well, here is my two cents, to please take with a grain of salt as I don't know you very well and you're not the same as me.

If I were in your position, here is the advice I would want someone to give me, though: I think you are in NO PLACE to make this kind of decision right now. In fact I think you are in no place to do ANY processing of ANYTHING right now. It is NOT a good time to talk or think about your ex-T or your childhood. Why? Because you can tell from your symptoms that your system is already totally in overload. It needs time to calm down before you throw anything else stressful at it.

What I would do if I were in your position is whatever is calming and distracting from your T troubles. I don't know what it would be for you, but it could include talking with friends about unrelated stuff, long walks or hikes, sports, watching TV, shopping, hanging out at the library, doing a guided meditation, working out, doing math problems... Anything where you feel safe and a little distracted. Now, at first you'll keep thinking about your exT anyway. That's OK. Just keep on telling yourself he is just a T, yes you had a bad experience but you will get through it in due time. Then switch your attention back to what you are doing. At first you may only manage to tear your thoughts away 1% of the time. That's fine. Keep at it and the percentage will grow. If you feel like utter crap, remind yourself that you're experiencing acute grief which is a lot like having the flu, but you don't have to do anything but let it pass. It might take a week or two for you to start eating and sleeping again. Once your physical symptoms are mostly gone, then you will be in a much better position to decide what you want to do about therapy.

Good luck!

That's really good advice BLT. wish I'd read that when I got suddenly dropped by my T. I spent 2 years in complete chaos and grief

x

((((AH))))

I totally relate to where you are coming from. You have probably always seen the world through the lens of meeting the other's needs and your needs just got squashed. It was just an automatic thing your brain did/does. What you need to do is to hear your own voice and strengthen it. I don't think your side is irrational at all but even if it was, who the hell cares? Are all the *healthy* people out there running around worrying if their feelings or their point of view is irrational? Or if they are thinking in black and white? I doubt it. They just are being themselves and they are more comfortable that way.

You need to feel comfortable being you. I'm so proud of your bravery in terms of how you stood up for yourself with your new T. You rock!

Bloody hell, OMG and WAY TO GO. I have never read such inspiring and amazingly effing fantastic stuff. You are amazing. I wish I had half your insight and ability to express what you needed - and I have an awesome T (most of the time). I couldn't do what you did. I also saw my T previously and luckily she had developed from just CBT stuff to eclectic and I hated CBT and needed eclectic - so luckily we didn't have to re educate ourselves.

Your T sounds like one of the best. But she can only be the best when you be the amazing client that you are demonstrating that you are. You are a gift to her.

Thanks for writing this out.
SD

AH that was super awesome. You drew your boundary and stuck to it. You are stronger than you can imagine. I'm still not so sure about your T though. She still sounds ambivalent and sort of wishy washy about keeping the boundary you defined to her. I just wonder if she is too close to oldT to help you process that grief and to develop a real trusting relationship with her.

It is extremely hard to develop a good, attached relationship with a new T after being abused and betrayed by another T. It has taken me YEARS and I'm still not there. One step forward and two steps back.

See how T does with your boundaries around oldT and then decide if you can heal with her. I do hope it works out.

Sending hugs
TN

AH, So proud of you. That was some fantastic work on your part.

Hi AH,

You don't know me, but I'm just emerging from lurkedom to say that I think you did amazingly well standing up for yourself and expressing your real feelings. Your story resonates with me. I've also been called sexy and hot by a therapist with questionable boundaries, and I understand how confusing and uncomfortable it can be.

I have to say, I feel scared for you about your new T. The "yeah, but"'s would drive me absolutely crazy, and I would really feel invalidated and a whole load of other bad things. But of course, it's your call, and you may find the experience of standing up for yourself and forcing her to listen to be really valuable. I don't think I could be that brave! The other red flag that went up for me is her letting the session go overtime, and then saying that "we" will need to get control of that. Keeping track of the time is her responsibility as the therapist, and she alone is the one who needs to get control of it. I may be picking on a little thing, but it annoyed me and I feel protective of you!

I hope I'm not being too negative. Really, the main point of my post is to say well done on being so clear at communicating your feelings and needs. You were amazing!!

Saka

wow, AH!! i am also blown away at your assertiveness, you were amazing! can i take some classes from you?
i can understand that pain and the frustration of not being heard made you work so hard to be heard, but i hope you wont always have to work so hard from now on.
i personally still dont see your T doing a very good job here... and maybe its my own stuff mixed in here as well as i get a pretty strong reaction. i just dont want you to keep getting hurt in this process. but i might refrain myself from posting again, as i will just say negative things about her again and again and its not helpful to repeat myself. just go with your gut and keep telling her when she's not getting it! good luck!

puppet

Awww, ((((AH))))

This is amazing. You showed such strength and courage--for yourself! That's huge. Way to go. It sounds like your T is hearing you, and I hope that she can successfully adapt to meet you where you're at.

Thanks for sharing your story. It's inspiring.

yeah, AH, that was an impressive session by you. Good job! I haven't yet commented on what's going on, but thought I would now. I don't really understand why she feels (maybe it's just reflexive or impulsive) the need to balance out what you are saying. The immediacy of the "yeah, but" stuff would cause me to pause. I don't think it's helpful for her to defend your former T.

Also, as much as this is all-consuming, I do agree with a post BLT wrote earlier (I think in another thread?). I would so encourage you to try to give yourself some time to heal. You don't have to figure everything out right this instant. Try to get out of your head as much as you can. You have been hurt. You don't need to solve anything or figure out the veracity of your emotions. They are what they are. Obviously you are going to be thinking about what you've been through, but I just think there's some benefit in being able to sit with your feelings, not try to judge or solve them, and be able to engage in other things going on in life too. So you don't get too consumed with therapy stuff.

Also, posting here is so great and you've gotten so much support, which is wonderful! I just hope it's not more confusing to you when you get all these mixed responses about the goodness of your T. What is most important is if you feel heard when in session. It might take a couple months to figure that out. Keep going back though if you do feel heard, despite what I think and others may think. You seem to be so good at analyzing things and taking a balanced approach. At some point though, you may just need to do what feels right. If it feels right, at least at this time, then keep seeing your T. She has been safe in the past, so I think safety is not the main issue (of course, trust is still a huge issue and one that takes awhile to build). Figuring out if she's the right T for you may take some time.

It's so hard to post sessions and get so much varied feedback. I don't expect any T to be completely perfect, yet if there's a continued theme in all of your sessions, then that's something to look at. It's only been two so far, so I don't know if it's fair for me to judge her on her "yeah, but" comments (confession - I did judge her at first, but I can't really say that's fair to do that since it's only the first session where you've been able to be so assertive and let her know what's going on for you). I don't know, just my thoughts. I realize they may not be helpful.

(((SP))) thank you for listening and support!!

(((liese))) I really take a lot of comfort in knowing that you get where I'm coming from with this. I agree that strengthening your own voice after being raised in that type of environment is crucial in healing. And this:

quote:

I don't think your side is irrational at all but even if it was, who the hell cares? Are all the *healthy* people out there running around worrying if their feelings or their point of view is irrational? Or if they are thinking in black and white? I doubt it. They just are being themselves and they are more comfortable that way.

That is awesome and I love it It really makes so much sense. Thank you for being proud of me

(((SD))) Your post made me feel all kinds of giddy and thankful and warm and fuzzy Thank you truly for that I think there is something to be said for CBT being not for everyone... has pro's and cons for sure! I'm not sure I could do what I did again Haha (I'm addding a whole segment about that at end of thread I think, because I've had all sorts of realizations since this session) Thank you for listening and encouraging me so much!

(((TN))) Thank you TN I do have similar concerns as you about the situation, I'm a little torn as to the cost/benefit of it all. I see some really positive things about her, and some genuine reason for caution at the same time. It truthfully feels as though the validation does eventually come, but it takes a good bit of wrestling to get there. I think it's a session at a time sort of place I'm in now of evaluating how we're doing. Thank you for well wishes and hugs

(((draggers))) Thank you draggers!! I so appreciate all of your encouragement too

(((RM))) Thank you so much for being proud of me, it really does mean a lot

(((saka))) Good to meet you I am truly sorry you experienced such poor boundaries with a T, I hope you aren't in that situation anymore- it can cause so much pain and damage

You know I did actually have a couple thoughts that were similar to the ones that stood out to you. One being the idea of standing up for myself potentially valuable- I thought about that having a good result if it doesn't turn into a real battle of never feeling heard.

I also noticed the remark at the end, and in the way she said it, kinda came across more as a slip-up of terminology because she later replaced the 'we' with 'I' again as we walked out the door (my fault forgot to add that at the end) But, the thing that I did feel concern over more so was the fact that it was allowed to run over again.

I have a real fear of any special treatment now, and the 30 min over for 2 sessions feels like some awfully special treatment. (I'm a little embarrassed to even admit she did that for me) I guess it's scary because I don't want to get used to something that feels so awesome only to have it taken away. After boundaries have been stomped with one T, you need them super tight and safe from then on.

It's a tricky situation to get a feel for, I'm seeing how it goes. Thank you so much again for posting and being protective of me and the support!

(((puppet))) Thank you puppet I wish I could give classes, but I'm not real sure how I even did that haha I'd describe it a bit like doing some adrenaline filled evasive driving to avoid a crash, then looking back and wondering how in god's name did you fit the car between the mailbox and oncoming traffic and the ditch?!

Your protectiveness and all your thoughts are very appreciated too, I see where you're coming from. Hoping it works but prepared for anything at this point. Thank you for all the kind words

(((outsider))) Thank you so much I'm so glad this was helpful and inspiring, I always get a bit scared to put my stuff out there so it really helps to know it means something. I appreciate hearing that!!

(((erica))) Thank you too for the support! I do see where you are coming from too, and having trouble seeing the need for balance about this. I think one part having worked together in the past and one part her knowing ex T so well complicates things up a lot more than they should be.

And BLT and yourself are wise about taking pauses from this, I go all in once I start trying to heal something. I'm thankful my H does such a beautiful job of reining me in sometimes- he'll actually force me to 'shut it down' now and then haha

I am glad to hear your thoughts and I do find it helpful


Wanting to give big hugs to all responding and listening and supporting, I am grateful to each of you



I wanted to add where I'm at now over all of this: I have no earthly idea how I was that upfront with her. I am truly not an assertive person, I'm not one to express anger (or even sure I know how to?) I certainly don't fall under the category of a confident person. I wish I could take credit for any of those things, but really what went on was more of a desperate plea from a do or die place. I was terrified the whole time I was there, and terrified to write about it and terrified I even did it. I equate it very much to if you put the most timid and gentle animal in a corner and kick it long enough, eventually it will take a chunk out of your foot. Even the most docile creatures can only take so much before an instinct to protect itself comes roaring up. I do know I have that, I distinctly remember having that since childhood, the occasions when it was just the end of what could be tolerated and I lashed out without regard for any consequences. Maybe that's 'fight' response? But hey I guess that's a step in the direction of proactive assertiveness right?

I'm just at a 'day at a time' or I guess rather 'session at a time' place. To those who see great potential and skill in new T, I do too truthfully. To those who see concerns and reasons to pause, I'm also seeing that. I genuinely have a pretty evenly mixed amount of both reactions. What's difficult is I feel that if I was going to her without the ex T issue, we would be good to go and off running into the wonderland of healing. But this is a bit of trip up when he comes in the pictures, and sadly one of the big issues I have to get around. I think with any T there is always a need to keep evaluating, 'is this working for me?' so that part is natural. And full disclosure: I am still terribly attached to her as being my very first T, so my own bias comes into play at times.

I believe since processing this session I've had some valuable insights though. I always try to really examine what I can do differently to get where we need to be. And I've realized that new T is responding to me as if I was still in the same mode of thinking I was in 5 years ago, because I haven't given her a chance to really see what I'm like now. Feels a bit like if you've ever known a small child for a time while you were an adult, moved away for several years, and then saw that same child again. It's hard to wrap your mind around the fact that the baby you still picture them as is in fact the teenager you see standing in front of you. It's pretty difficult to not want to watch muppets with them again instead of accepting the fact they are now dating and wearing makeup and learning to drive. Hahah Hopefully that illustration applies? So overall I feel like my next step is maybe take a few sessions to establish with her 'where I am now' so that she will have a fair gauge of that and not be forced to rely on the way she knew me to respond years ago. That could potentially clear up some problems right there.

The other part that I feel is just obvious as the day is long, is new T truly has a fondness for ex T on a personal level. I can feel that coming through no matter what she says. I can tell she just likes him, and really he could be perfectly likable in social settings. I know plenty of people I really like, but think they are just terrible at their profession. (HOW'S THAT FOR BALANCED THINKING!!?) <- sorry felt the need to vent that one. I can tell she feels torn and conflicted and is struggling to keep her personal feelings sorted out of this, and I'm hoping a little bit of time will help, but I'm keeping an eye on it and it is frustrating.

Anyway thank you all again for everything. I'm going to give a little support to some other threads today and then take the advice of BLT and erica and let my brain wind down I can feel it starting to overheat again!