Skip to main content

The PsychCafe
Share, connect, and learn.
I had a big issue with my daughter and I went in to my session on Monday afternoon and just talked about it. I talked about how afraid I am for my daughter and how some of her friends have very little parental involvement and goals for the future and how sorry I feel for them. It was one of the few sessions I have had lately where I talked freely. T didn't have much to say but to talk about the difficulty of parenting a teen and I was hoping for some solutions. A few minutes after I left I called T because I realized that one of the things he said made me wonder if he thought I was overreacting to my daughter's behaviour. He answered and he clarified what he meant and said he thought it would be difficult for any parent to deal with and also triggering for me because of my SA. Later that night I had a good talk with my daughter and felt much better.

The next morning I woke up in tears after having a night of awful, confusing dreams. My primary worry was that T would think I was a bad person for judging some of the parents of my daughter's friends so harshly. I feel ashamed about my judgements because I don't really know what they struggle with and I'm not a perfect parent anyway. By the time I saw my T on wednesday I had emailed him my fear that he thought I was judgemental and also decided that this was another example of poor therapeutic fit because I feel like my T doesn't give me feedback when I'm talking so I don't know if he understood what I meant or was thinking who is she to judge etc. It took me a long time to tell him this. I started by telling him that therapy was painful and upsetting no matter what I did. When I didn't talk about my thoughts and feelings I was upset because I 'wasted' the session, or didn't trust my T, or was hiding from my issues. When I did talk like this monday I feel some relief followed by being upset because what I said was "wrong" in some way and would anger/frustrate him or result in my T not liking me. I feel like I'm damned if I talk or if I don't.

I'm also having a difficult time with my sister who is the closest member of my FOO because I told her something about how I felt and what I was planning to do and how she had hurt my feelings and her response was just to say "I don't remember that". Later she called me up and talked to me like I had never said anything about my feelings or our relationship even to the point of discussing travel plans (flights, hotels, cost) to a weekend getaway that I told her I didnt' want to attend because I wouldn't enjoy spending time with that much of our family. It was like I hadn't even spoke and she assumes I will go on the trip and act like I'm fine. I feel invisible in my family or like I'm not even real and I'm sure I felt that way as a child.

So near the end of my session I actually got to the point of telling my T I didn't think we were compatible because I didnt' get feedback from him and I didn't know how he felt about things. He responded by telling me what he thought I was saying about the other parents and how I wasn't judging them except from the point of their children. He told he thought I had little tolerance for people neglecting their children and that was understandable. He said some other stuff and then he started to make his end of session moves and I blurted out "so you are just going to ignore my worries about therapeutic fit so I'm invisible here too". He said he thought he responded by giving me feedback on what I had said on monday and how he felt about it. It still feels like he was avoiding the topic and he's done that before.

I wrote him an email after the session (as usual) telling him my feelings about the session and the therapeutic fit conversation we keep touching on and not having and I thought I had done a good job expressing myself and giving us a place to start the next session. I started to feel better until I got his reply today which basically said "a lot of this email is important and should be discussed but I don't have time to respond now" which is a reasonable and expected response but when I got it I just started crying. I realized that I'm always going to want more from my T than I'm getting. I want him to like me, talk to me, care about me. I want to matter to him and that isn't possible so I wrote him and told him I'm taking a break from therapy because I depend on him too much and I need get to a point where I don't want so much from him.

Since I sent the email I've felt relieved, numb, sad, afraid, and disbelief. My husband thinks a break is a good idea because I've been so upset after my sessions lately. I'm afraid I'm stuck and depending on him more and more. I can't tell him I"m running because I've afraid some of my defences are breaking down and I've been telling him more of what is going one inside me or if I'm making a wise choice because the roller coaster of emotions is wearing me out. Ideas?
Last edited {1}
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

quote:
I realized that I'm always going to want more from my T than I'm getting. I want him to like me, talk to me, care about me. I want to matter to him and that isn't possible



Oh, that is resonating with my right now so I'm not sure I have any pearls of wisdom to share or offer. How did he respond to your email?
Liese,

He replied this morning saying that he didn't think this was a good time to quit particularly when I was articulating my struggle so well and he hoped I would continue to work and meet on Monday. Of course there is never going to be a good time to quit. I'm torn because I don't want to quit but maybe that is because I keep believing something can change. Argh, I feel like I'm delusional if I keep going and broken if I quit. There is no good decision here.
incognito,

you are not alone....i go through this....

quote:
I started by telling him that therapy was painful and upsetting no matter what I did. When I didn't talk about my thoughts and feelings I was upset because I 'wasted' the session, or didn't trust my T, or was hiding from my issues. When I did talk like this monday I feel some relief followed by being upset because what I said was "wrong" in some way and would anger/frustrate him or result in my T not liking me. I feel like I'm damned if I talk or if I don't


I also feel my T doesn't give feedback.

Recently, I have started to say this to my T (recently as in January): "What do you think?" and one time I even got the guts to say: "I don't want to talk anymore, you talk."

When I went to a marriage therapist in Dec-Feb with H, she was completely different than my T. She talked, A LOT, she would guess how I might be feeling about something and tell my H it, she kind of "lectured" us, she did meditations, etc....I decided, since I have high anxiety, she was causing me more distress than helping, so we have stopped going to see her.

Now, I kind of miss having a T who talks.

Plus, the few times my T has talked to me (and when the marriage therapist talked), I actually had more emotion released through that....

I gotta go....but I wanted to give you a hug
((((COGS))))

"He replied this morning saying that he didn't think this was a good time to quit particularly when I was articulating my struggle so well and he hoped I would continue to work and meet on Monday. Of course there is never going to be a good time to quit."

From what I read, it's all about verbalizing practically everything or at least being able to verbalize practically everything that goes on in our heads. Because once we can verbalize what drives us, we become aware of that need and we can change tactics if we need to. If the way we used to do things isn't working anymore, sometimes we need to make changes. But as long as all that stuff stays deep down inside us, we won't have any control over it.

I think it's so great that you are recognizing that you need your T to care about you. I think he's telling you in the quote above that you are getting there and you are making progress and he does care. It sounds like he's expressing that a lot more lately, that he cares about you and I'm glad about that.

xoxoxo

Liese
(((Incognito)))

I'm sorry things are so rough with your T right now. It sounds like even if you decide to take a break that it is really important for you to go back at least once or twice to talk about it with your T. I think it could be helpful and you might find that you are on the brink of something really big. On the other hand, you might gain some clarity about the relationship and whether you want a break or to quit or to keep going. It's a hard choice to make.

It is clear that your T cares for you and wants you to be able to express yourself. It also sounds like you feel he isn't expressing himself enough. Those things can be worked on.

Hug two
(((Ninn))) (((Liese))) (((STRM)))

thank you for responding especially when I know you are also struggling right now. I meant to respond sooner but I've spent the last couple of days really struggling with myself about what I really believe about myself, T, therapy.

Thursday night I went to an Intro to Meditation talk by a Tibetan buddhist teacher I'd talked to about a year and a half ago about talking a mindfulness meditation course with him. Then he told me he thought it wasn't a good time for me to start mindfulness meditation and he'd like to talk to my T before I did the course. So I crumbled and didn't take the course. Last week he recognized me generally at the intro but not specifically. During the class he talked about knowing things not with your thinking mind but instead with your bigger mind (kind of a gut feeling). He also said something about your meditation teacher being able to guide you because they knew you. I asked him how I would know if my teacher knew me (thinking of T of course). He said you know when someone gets you, don't you? I didn't respond because I don't think I do. I don't have gut feelings about people I can trust or people who understand me. It is easy to identify people who don't when they ignore what I say like my sister did or argue with me or show they aren't trustworthy but I don't "know" people who aren't like that.

It bothered me so much the next day I went to a private meeting with the meditation teacher and asked him if they aren't some people who just don't "know" things in their gut. He said no but if I didn't believe I could "know" things then I shouldn't believe anybody else. I should only believe my own experience. Then he told me I was incongruent and when I asked what he meant he said that he didn't think I fully believed what I said (that I couldn't "know" when someone got me). He said he thought that belief was balancing on a knife-edge and I was almost holding onto it as a belief rather than give it up. He told me that is how I should be and I shouldn't give up any of beliefs because of what other people tell me but he thought I was at a place of change and if I wanted to I could keep coming to the meditation classes and see what occurred.

Since then I've spent a lot of time considering the idea that I need to believe that I don't "know" about my T. I don't "know" if I can trust him, if he is the right T for me, about fit. I like things I can prove not things I feel and I think not being able to "know" things proves I'm too damaged to heal. I tend to jump to the fit isn't good and I should quit when things get too difficult for me because of what we are talking about or when T doesn't respond as quickly or as I would like him to which is what happened last week after my session. His email response was understanding but I created a lot of meaning around the fact that he sent the email just before he went into his afternoon sessions and told him twice in the email that he didn't have time to adddress all my concerns. I felt like he waited so that if I wanted to talk to him on the phone I wouldn't be able to call him. I don't think I wanted to call him until I got the feeling from his email that he was avoiding responding until I couldn't reach him by phone.

I don't what it would be like if I gave up the idea that I can't ever "know" my T enough to trust him. I'd have to admit to myself that he's never done anything to cause me not to trust him. I'd have to admit that what he offers me in terms of time and understanding isn't enough for me (and not because he wasn't the right T). I'd have to admit that I need him so much and I still couldn't talk to him when I needed him and it wasn't his fault or my fault. I might have to talk about all the things I'm avoiding if I don't spend time my agonizing over therapeutic fit and if I'm capable of healing.

I don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should go to my session this afternoon and admit I trust him and I'm hurt when I can't talk to him. Part of me wants to never go back and not deal with this. Either way this afternoon is going to be painful and difficult.
((((incognito))))

For what it's worth, I don't think I have that sort of gut feeling either. Or, maybe I do, but my experiences have taught me that gut knowledge is not to be trusted. I think, I can logically dissect who is trustworthy, but despite "knowing" my T is trustworthy, my pastor is trustworthy, etc., I often do not feel it. I mean, I feel it enough to keep going back, not not completely abandon the connection, but not enough to really be fully me to those people, not ever. Doing so even for an instant requires such a force of will.

I'm glad you are going to see your T today. I think what you propose to do, admitting to him how you feel, is a good idea. But, I'd understand if it just doesn't feel safe. I think, maybe, would it be more accurate to say, "I know I ought to trust you," as in on some level you know he is trustworthy, if you observe his overall behavior toward you. But, the truth is, there is still a lot of doubt there, mostly not because of anything he has done. I don't think there is anything wrong with you for doubting. My T gives me SO much. The last three weeks, we've had 6-8 hours of therapy and access via text in between. It doesn't matter how much he gives. I still fundamentally believe he couldn't REALLY like me, care about me, be there for me, not abandon me...because it is not a belief about him, so it is not a belief he can change by just doing the right thing or giving the right amount. It is a belief about ME. How I was treated before caused me to construct some basic rules about the nature of my existence and those rules won't be changed by a single act (just one more empathetic response or one more hour together). They will only be changed by the cumulative care and acceptance and responsiveness to my needs as I experience it over a long period of time. So, pushing myself to trust in his care is pretty much pointless. My T has never once done something that would make me think (cognitive/intellectual level) that he has a single bad thought or feeling about me. However, I FEEL fundamentally unworthy of care, so I can't reconcile his caring with my base lack of value.

Anyway, I've gotten off topic here, but I'm wondering if our not having a gut feeling of who knows us, gets us and who we can trust is not so much about a choice to give up that belief. The belief that we have to choose to give up is that we are unworthy of being known, unworthy of having people behave in a loving, trustworthy manner. Because, if we can't stop believing that is something outside the realm of our nature, of what we deserve on a fundamental human level, trust is really an impossibility.

I don't think I've explained that right, but it's just what came into my head when reading your post.

I really hope your session goes well today. I am having a similar wanting to run from therapy right now (and always). I know it's really hard and I'm proud of you for going back to face it, even if it's just one more session.
(((((COGS))))

Wow. Don't have time now but you have talked about some really interesting stuff.

"I don't know what to do. Part of me thinks I should go to my session this afternoon and admit I trust him and I'm hurt when I can't talk to him. Part of me wants to never go back and not deal with this. Either way this afternoon is going to be painful and difficult."

Hope you went. You're seeing so much now. Your world is going to change.

xoxooxox

Liese
Thanks for asking about me Liese.

I did go to my session but I didn't admit how much I trust him and I'm hurt when I can't talk to him. He talked about how whenever I talk about something I'm ashamed of I think he doesn't like me because I'm afraid of that. Then I start to think I should quit therapy because I can't trust him. He asked if we could acknowledge how painful and difficult those feelings are and then move on to talk about my memories and difficult things. I told him I didn't think I could.

He surprised me by suggesting that since I've see that consult T several times now and I think that it has been helpful that he could meet with her to discuss any ideas she had. I asked him why he would want to do that. He told me that it wasn't about me dealing with my feelings instead it was how could we work with the feelings. I am surprised and feel touched that he would consider talking to my consult T to see if it helped therapy for me.

I also told him about some of what I discussed about my fear I don't have "gut" feelings about things. He told me that he thought I had "gut" feelings about a lot of things and some of those things are contradictory and conflicting so my "gut" feelings aren't a very useful guide in my life now.

(((Yaku)))
thank you for your thoughts. I found your statement

quote:
The belief that we have to choose to give up is that we are unworthy of being known, unworthy of having people behave in a loving, trustworthy manner.


so powerful. I've been thinking about it a lot today. I didn't share it with my T but I might in the future. I wonder if we can choose to believe we are worthy or if someone else has to believe it first.
Hi incognito... I'm sorry I have not been more supportive lately as I know this has been a hellish time for you in therapy.

I do think we must look objectively at our T's behavior to decide if they are trustworthy and then believe what they are showing us. Has your T ever really made you feel unworthy or unacceptable? Or is this your pronouncement on yourself? I understand because I do the same things. In my case, I find someone that I feel that I cannot measure up to and then proceed to make myself so miserable then convince myself that my T could never even want to be in the same room with me because I am so unworthy of his time/attention/care etc. In most cases it's the T's wife that I can never measure up to. I struggle with holding to the thought that my T can really, truly care for me while he is also in an outside loving relationship. And it's not even that I have erotic transference for him... it's again more like the child who wants daddy all to herself.

Anyway, I have been trying to remember all the kind and caring things T has done for me and how he shows his care for me in so many ways and he is consistent and there. I use this to help me fight back the terror that this is all fake and he does not care and actually wishes I would disappear.

I think your T made an incredibly caring gesture to you with speaking to consultT. Many T's can be threatened by your seeing another T and also in actually discussing a patient with them, especially if the original T is lookig for some guidance in treating the patient. Your T is very modest and wants the best for you so he is willing to take this step in your best interests.

My T asked me an important question today. What would happen to me if I just accepted his care and concern for me? What would happen if I just stopped fighting it and pushing him away? I am thinking this over tonight.

I think we are both struggling in similar ways. So what do you think would happen if we did this? Would we spontaneously combust? LOL. Or would we then begin to really feel the therapy love and attachment they feel for us? Incognito... I do think our Ts would have given up by now if they did not really really care about our getting better and having full lives. They want this so bad for us, they just want us to want it too and to accept that what they are giving us is real.

Not sure if this is in anyway helpful but I do understand a lot of what you are going through.

Many hugs
TN
((((COGS))))

"I did go to my session but I didn't admit how much I trust him and I'm hurt when I can't talk to him. "

You put these two sentences together (the one above and the one below) and I wasn't sure if it was intentional? Because there is the shame, right there above: you are ashamed of feeling hurt when you can't talk to him. And that goes right to the heart of what he said next:

"He talked about how whenever I talk about something I'm ashamed of I think he doesn't like me because I'm afraid of that."

WOW. This is huge!!!! You are getting at the deep painful stuff and starting to get off your hamster wheel. Because if you can start to feel less ashamed of feeling hurt, of needing to talk to him, then you can ask for these things and actually feel good when he gives them to you.

So touching that he offered to meet with your consult. Really beautiful.

It hurts like hell but you are doing amazing work and I am sensing emotional freedom is not far behind.

xoxoxo

Liese
(((incognito)))

I think Liese made a great connection there about your shame. I agree.

I think it's great that your T offered to meet your consult T. Meeting your needs within the framework of therapy is obviously very important to him and he is really prioritizing finding the best way to work together. He is investing in the connection and from the outside, that gives me a really safe sense of his positive feelings toward you and the work he is doing with you. I hope you can feel that a bit and hold onto it as long as possible!
(((TN)))

I think it is an important question your T asked you. I've been considering a version of it ever since I spoke to the meditation teacher. I wondered what I would have to give up if I gave up the idea that I didn't "know" whether T was right for me and relaxed into the relationship and therapy. I think I wouldn't have any reason to not deal with my issues that I want to work on but I keep avoiding when I don't feel safe and sure of the relationship with my T. I also might have to admit that he cares about me and is the right T for me and still he does things that hurt me like the way he responds to emails or certain topics. I might have to admit that no one can be everything I need all the time and stop getting angry at him for that or at myself for wanting him to be that for me.

Him suggesting he talk to my consult T does really illustrate his commitment to me and my therapy and shows me in a way that even I can't ignore that he is working to find a way through what I'm struggling with and not just waiting for me to go away.

(((Liese)))
I think you are right that I am ashamed about how much pain I'm in when I can't talk to him and I think he doesn't want to talk to me like I felt on Thursday. I'd rather quit than admit it to him because I'm so ashamed of my need.
Thank you for your support and positive thinking.

((Yaku)) (((STRM)))
I am trying to hold onto his commitment to me and my therapy. It has made a huge impact on my feeling that he wanted me to quit and it would be better when I finally did.

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×