RT - even tho you're in so much pain and have so much hurt, it's really good to see you post again. I truly wish there was something I could say or do to help but I can't. All I can do is say you're in my thoughts and li'l one and I are sending the warmest of cyber hugs. Please take them for whatever they're worth, 'k?





The Kid and li'l one

(((RT)))
i think all of the wants that you listed are common wants, and even more so i think they are common needs.

big hugs to you during this very difficult time. i think there are ties to the relationship to your T and your relationship with your mother, and maybe that's why it's so difficult. some unresolved stuff, maybe. i don't know, i'm just throwing it out there.

i'm really sorry you're in such a tough spot. i'm thinking about you and sending you the best

i hope you're feeling better soon. CD

Hi RT,

I'm wondering if doing that heart-wrenching service for your mother felt, in a terrible way, like you were 'cutting off' the connection with her. I can imagine as a daughter I'd want my mum to stop it, step in, say no to that cutting off, not to allow it to happen.
((((RT))))

Take it easy.

Jones

Hey Tomato.

So much pain in your post. It really resonated with me especially the bits about being noticed and someone caring for you. I really get that.

I had no one for many years and my life shrivelled as I shut off from people and things (which I am still happy to do.....) .

I was terminated by my T 2 years ago and I thought that was the end of me. I wanted to die. I had nothing left. Once she ended it and I knew it was the "final" end for us and there was no chance of going back to her - that HELPED a lot. A decision made and I had a fork in the road, so to speak. This was a good thing. It was only at that point that I realised that I needed another T and I wouldn't survive without one.

I searched and found my old T - as it turns out, through some very rocky times - her and I are great together, but therapy is still incredibly difficult for me. I have found the person who cares for me, she bears witness to my pain and what is inside, she notices, she asks questions, she is there, she is present. She sees me (the bits I allow her to) I have that person that you want and I wanted.

But i wouldn't have found her if I hadn't hit that rock bottom point after being terminated. It was an opportunity.

There is someone out there RT who will be there for you. I promise.

And there are people here who understand where you are at and have felt the feelings that you have and the thoughts you are thinking.

You aren't alone

Somedays.

((((RT))))

I'm helpless to do or say more.

RabbitEars

RT have you considered checking into a hospital or something just to get some measure of safety and support??

************TRIGGER WARNING FOR SU ********************



TK & LO, thanks for reading and commenting and the cyber-hugs

CD, thanks for normalizing my experience and sending wide-armed hugs

Jones, yes, and I think I want T to step in and say, No, she won't allow it... the cutting off

SD, thanks for "getting" it. thanks for saying I'm not alone. thanks for saying there's someone out there who will be there for me.

Rabbit, thanks for hugs. I hope you're okay.

turtle, I'm currently attending IOP - although it's awful and I'm seriously considering dropping out of the program. (In fact, I told them today that I quit, but they got me to agree to think about it some more.)


I am really very torn and confused at this point. Last week I actually had a good session with T. The kind of session that I've been wanting to have. I think we could continue to do good work. And I am oh-so-attached to her. I feel tempted to stay with her. To keep at it. To put up with the things that frustrate me.

Then I remind myself how much pain she has *caused* me. I do blame her for some of it - her inconsistency about boundaries and her repeated rejection of me as she tried to manage her own boundaries. And now her refusal to see me more than once a week.

At IOP last week the therapist was talking about what to do when things start to escalate - and she listed calling your psychiatrist and calling your therapist and trying to get in to see one or the other. I wanted to cry. Because I can't do that with T. (Oh, I suppose I can call the pdoc - but she doesn't know me. Only knows my name because it is on the file that the office manager sets out for her.)

Feeling scared.
Scared that I will freeze when I get to the session.
Scared that I won't be able to say what I need to say.
Scared that I'll chicken out.
Scared that I'll go thru with it.
Scared of being overwhelmed by sadness and grief.
Scared of feeling too much.
Scared of feeling suicidal.

Hey RT,

It seems like it could be a very tough bind for both of you. On the one hand if she lets you go you lose the relationship, which you might actually want to keep. And you might feel she's failed you, by not demonstrating that fierce mother-love that keeps you with her. You might feel she's allowed a recreation of the circumstances of your mother's death. On the other hand if she doesn't allow you to leave she is over-riding your freedom and ability to make decisions for yourself. That could recreate other circumstances where you weren't allowed a choice. You might feel forced into the relationship, and give up some of your autonomy and responsibility in it. She would also be over-riding your instincts, telling you ultimately not to trust your own feelings and decisions.

Hard, hard situation. Could be worth talking about the dilemma with her.

quote:

At IOP last week the therapist was talking about what to do when things start to escalate - and she listed calling your psychiatrist and calling your therapist and trying to get in to see one or the other. I wanted to cry. Because I can't do that with T.

I know how you feel. I have been having increasing and intense anxiety. Waking up terrified. I have no where to turn. I can't call the T who dumped me last month. I am supposed to see a male T on Wednesday and I can't even begin to describe how much that depresses me. I have never seen a male T before.

RT - PLEASE let us know how today goes. We care about you and are very concerned about how you're doing, especially when you mention feeling suicidal. I will be thinking of you today.

We need to hear from you so we know you're okay.

The Kid

I'm afraid I will be annihilated by my feelings.

RT, I know that fear rather too well. I'm sorry you are having such a tough time of it right now.

I'm not too clear on the details of why you might be finishing with T. Am I right in thinking this is coming from you, not her?

I understand how hard it can be to get any words out at all, especially ones that feel really risky but if you can communicate the dilemma you're facing to her, even a little bit, then that might help you.

I hope it goes better than you are fearing.

quote:

I think I want T to step in and say, No, she won't allow it... the cutting off

RT, can you write this down on a piece of paper and hand it to her? It might launch a discussion that still leads to termination, but at least you will have been totally honest about your wish/want/need.

Do you want her to step in and say "No" so you can more fully experience the feeling of rejecting her (i.e., would you terminate anyway?)? Or do you really want to stay with her? Is there enough good present in the relationship to merit "putting up with" the stuff that's less than ideal?

I'm probably oversimplifying; I'm sorry. I just don't want you to paint yourself into a corner, forcing a termination that you aren't 100% certain is necessary. You don't have to give yourself or your T an ultimatum today--or ever.

I'll be thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way. You're going to be OK, RT, whatever you decide. Breathe, breathe, breathe...

RabbitEars

quote:

I'm afraid I will be annihilated by my feelings.

RT that is a sign that your emotions are coming from your infancy childhood. In a sense you are living in a flashback right now. A long extended one. I have been through this more times than I can count. To tell you to hold onto the present etc is weak advice because I get that what you're going through right now feels all too real. Like you feel you will be annihilated but the truth is that you will not. but you will be in a lot of pain. If you can start to comfort yourself that is the best thing you can do. Also reach out to others. Realize that you were hurt as a child in a way that has affected you into adulthood in a very serious way. I know this is advice giving etc. I dont' have must time right now and I am concerned about you.

It sounds like this termination itself is acting out, in a way - and there is an urge to do more to get the results. In what you're writing, it sounds quite painful... This is much easier to say than to do, but, asking directly for what we want/need is generally the quickest way to feeling better, and getting something we need.

With therapy I think Ts do show us they value us by giving us the space to make our own decisions, but it hurts not to be "chased". I know my Ts always tell me I can leave if ever I want to - I know this is meant to "empower" me but I've often taken it as rejection, or them saying they'd like me to leave. In the earlier days of my work with my T she didn't provide much reassurance, even when I'd ask... I dunno what was up with that (probably the negative transference at the time).

Like others have said, this would be so powerful to share with your T. Be prepared though not to be chased but rather assisted through finding the best choice for you.

I hope IOP goes well and might grow on you (especially if it is DBT - the parts of it I took helped, despite really disliking it at the time)... I was in one for 6 months or so (for my eating disorder). I remember my first day of a group walking in to a room of all women and just thinking (f*** no!).

I did it. Last session with T was yesterday. I didn't act out. I didn't even cry when I told her yes, I was really terminating - although I cried buckets ALONE.

I also called IOP and told them to discharge me.

I've interviewed three therapists but the one who really "gets it" is no longer offered on my insurance plan. Besides, I'm not feeling much like talking to someone else right now.

I still feel attached to T. I still feel like there is a lot of work that we could do together as we finally, last week, had a session that really went the way I feel that I need. That made it soooo hard to terminate, because I could see real potential.

But her boundaries are an issue for me. I don't want to work with a therapist who I'm not supposed to call between sessions and who won't schedule a second appointment if I need one. Because if things are getting rough for me, I don't have someone to check in with. My fallback is to go to the hospital. To me, that seems pretty extreme when a ten minute phone conversation or an extra session could be sufficient to get me re-grounded and back on track. It is very painful for me to accept this, but I do, and this was the major reason I felt I had to stop seeing her.

I feel like I am in deep grief.

RT

Hi RT ... I'm so glad you posted today. Really glad to know how things went and how you're feeling.

Speaking from personal experience, I have to agree with the others and say you're most likely feeling compound grief from infancy plus the death of your mom and now this termination. You've feeling grief x 3! That's a lot for any one person at any one time. May not be what you want to hear right now, but I understand. I hear how much pain you're in. If I could wave a wand to lessen it by even a tenth, I would.

Please keep posting to let us know how you're doing, okay?

The Kid and li'l one

you feel like you're in deep grief because, i think, you are. please be gentle with yourself these days. go easy, and breathe

although a difficult decision, your understanding that in spite of your attachment to her, you accept that her boundaries are an irresolvable issue. that's pretty huge, and i applaud you for coming to that realization. i hope there are no regrets there, however. cuz that's huge, too.

i hope, in spite of the grief you are feeling, that you feel you made the right decision. i think that's key. i hope you keep writing here if it helps you. we're all here to help support you in the best way we know.

gentle hugs ((((RT))))

quote:

i hope, in spite of the grief you are feeling, that you feel you made the right decision.

RT, it took incredible courage to make this decision, and it will probably take even more to move ahead. You took care of yourself; you did this for you. THAT is huge. (((RT)))

RabbitEars

(((RT)))

Hang in there. These therapy/therapist situations can be so wretchedly painful. I do know that time does heal such things but time can be so slow....

just wanted to send a hug your way. I know this has been such a difficult decision.

Jillann

Last night I dreamed about T. (Of course I did.) I dreamed that she sent me a letter. In it she said that she had some ideas about how we could work together, and she asked me to come in for two sessions.

Gaaaaaaa...

RT, I second that gaaaaaaaaaaa. Really, as if life and therapy aren't hard enough, and then ex-T has to show up in your dream? Send her a bill for your time.

RabbitEars

thanks (((Draggers))). I really appreciate you saying all that.

Hi RT... I just wanted to acknowledge here that you are in deep grief. You have suffered a great loss. But I think you were strong enough to end what was a relationship that was doing more harm than good for you. It will be painful for awhile and then you will begin to heal. I do hope you find another T who can offer what you need and who helps you to heal. You should feel very empowered that you took this into your own hands and did what was best for you. That shows courage and good self care. You will get through this and be stronger.

TN

Jones, SomeDays, Mallard, catalyst, The Kid, Closed Doors, RabbitEars, turtle, Jillann, Draggers, Hollow, True North - Thank you ALL for hearing me, responding to me and being gentle with me.

Many of you have told me how brave I've been. I'm trying to decide if I feel brave. I don't think so. Scared and uncertain when I termed, finally. And sad. Huge sadness.

I can't figure out what to do next. I know that initially the whole point was to stop seeing xT so I could find someone who could better meet my needs. But right now (and I know it's still way early) I don't want to see anyone else. I want to see xT. And her door is open. I can go back to her.

I guess what is so frustrating is that I have shared mountains of information with her. She knows stuff about me. And I have tsunamis of transference, still active. That's goo-gobs of material to work with/on. And we finally had a session in which we did that work; the session right before my last one, when I'd already made my decision to tell her I would be terminating. It was so hard to put those words outside of me. To actually say, "next week will be my last session," knowing that I didn't really want it to be and even more so since we were finally doing some of My Work.

But if I hadn't done it then, I don't know if I ever would. If I don't stop, I can't try someone else. If I don't try someone else, how will I know if there is someone better out there for me? I have pored over the insurance database of eligible therapists: female, accepting new patients, psychodynamic, in a 50 mile radius, old enough (based on year of degree). No, I can't see someone who works at a Catholic agency. No, this one specializes in children. No, she only makes home visits. No, she only takes short-term clients. I have actually talked to 7-8 therapists and had sessions with 3. All three seem like good Ts. One actually has a lot of relevant experience and psychoanalytic training, but now she's not available under my insurance plan. (How does that happen? Eligible one day; ineligible the next.)

The thing is, I have been way off my game since I've been seeing xT - since last fall. I've been in IOP three times. I pretty much stopped going to Zumba. I gained 10 pounds. And I haven't gotten crap done. Seems like sometimes when I'm on break from therapy, I am more productive. I think that's partly because I use DOING things as a way to keep me distracted. And sometimes when I'm working on really hard stuff in therapy, I don't get anything done because... I just can't. I think all of my energy and focus (what little I have) gets used up with the psychological work. So maybe the think to do is quit therapy. Or at least take a break from it.

I don't want to talk to someone else. I want to talk to xT. I still feel attached to her. (OK, so see how I feel in a couple of weeks or a month.) And I don't want to "give" that attachment to someone else. There are lots of pros to seeing xT, but the cons are major. Will the cons ever fade? Can the cons ever be renegotiated? If I stay away long enough, will she get enough relief from me and be willing to change some of the rules? I don't know the answer. And, "oh yeah, maybe there's someone better out there for me."

Confused, I am.
Sad, I am.

RT

PS - it's my Mom's birthday today. Miss her too.

((RT)) I'm so sorry, sigh... I'm not sure if I have any suggestions, just support My #1 when I think about leaving a T is that they have all this info... and the exhaustion of starting again. But... sometimes new starts lead to wonderful things. I'm sorry you are limited by your insurance (know what that is like!). Maybe you needed more time w/ xT to coordinate termination, so it didn't/doesn't feel so painful, but, I don't think a termination goes without grief and pain - even the most well executed. I've thought of therapy breaks before too, because therapy is WORK. It drains you, and requires a lot of resources. It's no wonder you are getting other things done, even if it's distraction. I think any transition (to a break, to a new T, to anything) requires some turn around time and doing stuff I think is the best way to work that out - or following what you naturally need anyhow. I hope you can pick up Zumba again... I only say that because physical stuff helps me so much. I try to keep my yoga practice consistent despite the ups and downs in therapy and life... it's a hard commitment (that I fail at constantly but at least I've got the spirit!) but can help so much. Sorry you are so confused and sad. I'm also sorry you are missing your Mum. Hers is close to my Mom's birthday Virgo Moms are interesting creatures.