((((Yaku))))
I am so glad you sent the email. Of course it feels overwhelmingly scary...it is a HUGE step. But you CAN do this. You can. I am sure the waiting must be just torturous and I am sorry you are agonizing over this, Yaku. I can completely relate to the feelings of wanting to run to T and hide from T at the same time. I think it must be the different parts of us that are fighting it out...it feels that way for me at least.

I will be thinking of you and hoping you are able to say what you want and need him to know and that he meets you with acceptance and openness...(((Yaku)))
seablue

I keep trying to tell myself that the worst that can happen is T tells me his boundary is far away from where I want it to be, and we discuss how that makes me feel. The second part (admitting to him how it makes me feel) is by far the scarier of the two. I've been rejected before, often enough...but to be rejected AND stick around, continuing to be vulnerable (even deepening my vulnerability in the face of that rejection)...who the F--- would sign up for this again?

Thanks DF and Seablue. I do appreciate your input. I just wish I could make my feelings accept what my intellect is telling me, that it is absolutely NOT the end of the world.

But it still feel really uncomfortable.
(((Yaku)))

Thanks, seablue, for understanding. (((((hugs back)))))

Hi Yaku. Did you have your session yesterday? Were you able to talk about the email and what you wrote in it? I know you were really struggling with the attachment stuff and the closeness you feel you need in the therapy room. I hope it all went well for you and you are doing okay today.

Just thought I'd check in. Post when you feel you can.

TN

Thanks for checking in, TN.

We did discuss it. I was really distressed from the moment I walked in.

He asked me how I could be more comfortable. I couldn't tell him, "Come closer!" The thought wouldn't even solidify in my mind. He asked if I wanted to sit on the floor, but I felt I couldn't move, so we prayed again, then I felt I could move to the floor. He still crossed the room to sit on the other side, but then he asked if it was OK if he moved back a bit, and I said yes. He sat with his back against the same couch I had my back against, but still four or five feet away, but we were "next to each other." He said, "I think you prefer this more?" and I said I did. And he said, "OK, now we're driving in the car together," because in the past I have let him know that the most comfortable difficult conversations I've had have been in a car with someone, side-by-side, so it feels close, but safe, because in the car it's "OK to be close" without feeling like you're invading the other person's space. Anyway, score one for T for remember way past journal entries and offering to meet that need. T points = 1. From here on in, I was on the verge of tears or silently crying the whole session, usually with my head in my hands or arms.

T let me know that he did indeed read all the sensitive (childhood sexual development) stuff that I sent and that we didn't have to talk about it, but it was OK to, and it was perfectly appropriate and good that I shared it. Another point for T for knowing I needed reassurance about whether I had crossed any boundaries and being willing to give it to me. T Points = 2.

He also let me know that (from the attachment paragraph I posted) he would not disintegrate if I cried. That if I sobbed, he would still be there. I had an opportunity to bring it up, but I understood he had kind of missed the point, so I just let it slide away.

I had other things coming up (like feeling threatened by all the people in the lobby when I was there). We discussed that, my relationship with H a bit, the stuff with my mom's ex-boyfriend, Ken. T said he was "still angry at Ken." I described how I didn't even know if I could be angry, because I couldn't be sure something bad happened even though I feel very threatened by the memories of him and it seems like some stuff is surfacing around him. He said that was very generous and there were at least a few things I was sure happened that were completely unacceptable and he was very mad for me that Ken had done those things. One more point for T for remembering how much it helps me when he "sponsors" feelings that I have trouble connecting to without that permission. T points = 3. That led into a conversation about him seeing me as very generous (and me disagreeing).

I told him about the study I'm going to be doing at Stanford, which he said sounded fun and interesting. I couldn't bring myself to ask my diagnosis question.

At the end, T brought up how I had said (in an older journal entry) I really struggle to consider topics valid unless he introduced them, even if I had written about them a million times. Then he asked me if there was anything I had really wanted to talk about, but hadn't been able to. I said yes, but I wasn't sure there was time and asked how much time we had left and he said "Negative 20 minutes," and I apologized, but he said, "It doesn't bother me," and stuff about it being his job to manage the time. He asked if I wanted to save it for the phone session and I told him it should be discussed in person. T said he knew it was uncomfortable for me that he was asking me to make the decision. So, I asked about how much more time he was willing to run over and he said maybe ten more minutes. So, I let him know it was about that particular paragraph and the attachment stuff. Score one point for being so generous with his time, another for reassuring me it wasn't my job to take care of his time, and a third for making me feel safe enough to bring it up. T points = 6.

With my eyes closed, and him being to the side, I was able to pretend he was closer than he was. I wasn't doing it consciously. I just kind of felt him as closer than he was until I opened my eyes. When I did open my eyes, I had a weird moment of the whole room feeling unfamiliar, T seeming unfamiliar, like a "Where the hell am I?" feeling, but still in the back of my mind knowing where I was and who he was and that I was safe. It was so weird! Anyway, he read over the paragraph again and asked a question about what I meant by feeling like a "zoo exhibit." This was attached to the crying statement that I was sure he hadn't understood earlier. It took several tries (and my irritation at him interrupting me, claiming to understand when he clearly didn't), before I let him know that being emotional in front of him made me feel like I was a zoo exhibit. He actually said, "Wow, I really don't see you that way at all. I will need some time to process that." I explained that it was like the difference between when a pet gets hurt (the owner checks the animal out, takes care of it, brings it to the vet if needed) and when a zoo animal is hurt, and spectators are pointing, "Look, Mom, that one's limping." So, at that point, I think he kind of got it. T transitioned it into a conversation about my mom and how she interacted with me. He said, "I know you say you'll never say no, but I have to ask, is it OK if we pray now?" So, just to tease him, I said, "No...of course I understand we have to wrap it up." I will give T another 3 points for trying so hard to "get" what I was saying and making sure the conversation wrapped up well. T points = 10.

So, we prayed and I stood up and took some tissues and was wiping my nose and he said, "Oh, do you have the runs?" I was startled, because obviously he had meant "runny nose," but used the wrong statement. I said, "Uh...no. I was upset." And T said, "Oh, have you been crying? I didn't notice." Now, I was not very expressive with my crying, and T knows I don't like to be stared at, so while he does pay attention to me, he tries not to look at me constantly, so I get why my sniffling and wiping my eyes went unnoticed throughout the session and I was literally silently tearing up and crying in attachment pain basically the whole session. All I could say was, "Yeah." And he said, "Well, God bless!" like to encourage me that I had been emotional with him, I think, but it's also how he says goodbye. So then, I basically numbed out and left and started freaking.

And my pain started screaming, "WTF! I tell you about how I feel like a zoo exhibit, because no one is responding to my pain, but just watching it...and now, even worse, my pain isn't even F---ing noticed!" So, crying in my car, I sent him some texts about how I had gone from feeling like a zoo animal to a wounded animal in the wild, not even on anyone's radar, beyond notice and help, all alone, etc. and how these type of feelings were exactly the painful attachment stuff I was trying to describe. It was like five pages of text that vacillated from telling him how much pain I was in from what he said and being sorry that he was on the receiving end of it. No response.

So, I had ***************TRIGGERS, mentions SI thoughts and suicidal ideation***************** suicidal dreams all last night, about my little brother (who visited yesterday), but it was like I was him and the one trying, about me trying, about being a character whose siblings had succeeded. I woke up still feeling very much stuck in those desires. I texted T again about those feelings, because I'm supposed to. No response. I texted again, because they were worsening...no response. I texted a last time to be specifically very clear that when he gets a chance, I really need just one or two words reassuring me that I am not invisible/alone and the stuff I'm sending is OK. No response. Now realizing, he hasn't been responding to anything except scheduling stuff for over a week. I'm having a battle between two parts: one is sure T is just incredibly busy or we are having one of our numerous texting problems we've had where it doesn't get sent or received, and another, who is sure T is trying to teach me a lesson (bring this B$ to God, stop texting me during the week, you're obviously exaggerating how unsafe you feel, maybe if I ignore you long enough you'll quit for real and I can be free of your neediness). I don't know how long to wait before tell him I just can't handle texting with him right now, because of how triggered I am on not having my pain responded to. But, I'm having SI urges and suicidal thoughts and I am supposed to text him. But what is the point if he is just going to ignore me? I keep pushing myself moment by moment and making myself stay connected with people so I don't do stupid stuff.

***********End TRIGGERS*************

So, T points now = negative one million, for making me feel completely invisible and not responding when I really need him to. I know that's not fair, but that's how I feel. So hurt, because he seemed to really "get" what I was trying to say about how attachment feels. Not the deep stuff, but he is starting to understand how much it hurts me, and he made it WORSE from a thoughtless comment while I was so raw. I don't know what to do. My head is throbbing and I feel so alone and I don't feel like I can even make it to Friday and I don't know how long I should wait until I tell him how much him continuing to ignore me is hurting, because I don't want to freak out on him if he hasn't even read his texts, but now I'm paranoid he is responding and it is just not going through, because that happened last week. I'm so tired. My head hurts. I have to see my mom in 15 minutes for lunch. I just want to quit all this crap!!!

Wow Yaku I am so sorry you had such a shitty session, and one that seemed to be going so well. I'm utterly gobsmacked that your T didn't even notice that you had been crying. Sure it's possible to cry quietly and keep it relatively hidden, but that's a T's JOB for heaven's sake, to be aware of what's happening in you.

Sorry this is probably not what you need to hear, I think I'm just trying to validate that the way you feel is perfectly understandable in light of what happened. And that he's not responded to your texts must really be flipping you out. Can you give yourself a little time to give him time to respond? I get the impression that there's some sort of Murphy's Law operating in situations like these, one thing sets it off and suddenly everything else that could add more pain and confusion to the situation happens, as if by some sort of malevolent design. Take it from me, there will be no such sinister thing going on, please try not to attribute the worst possible motives to your T, he WON'T be not responding deliberately, and he WON'T be thinking to himself that he just wants rid of you...

I think you did really well in what you dealt with in session today, and the fact that you'd sent him that very revealing and vulnerable-making email will surely have ratcheted up your anxiety a zillion times worse than normal - chances are that you in a hyper-sensitive state anyway and all sorts of things are going to affect you infinitely worse than if you were in a more 'normal' frame of mind. Just hang in there...

I hope you get through your lunch ok. Hugs to you Yaku, I'm so sorry you're having to go through all this.

LL

LL - Thanks. I am actually more worried that texting is broken. It is suspicious, since he sent texts that I never got last week (he said, problem on his end, like it went into drafts or something). The only texts he has responded to in the last week or two have been scheduling related, and the rest have been ignored, even when he specifically told me to text, so that makes it worse. I am very sensitive about it, because there was a whole period around when we first started doing texts (mostly for scheduling) that my phone would randomly break and stop receiving texts. It was happening all the time. So, I have a lot of anxiety around not getting texts. But since he has like eight or nine pages of texts since I left the session last night, I don't feel like I can send one more stating my worries about texting being broken or my projections that he is trying to get rid of me. I feel paralyzed...

Yaku,

I'm sorry that your session did not go well. I am also so very sorry that you are having to deal with his not responding to texts. I know how horrible it can feel...wondering if something is wrong with your phone, their phone, or perhaps he was in a car accident or maybe he replied but forgot to hit send....all of those obsessive thoughts...I've had them too and I know how consuming it can be. (((((Yaku)))))) hang in there.

Hanging on. I texted him again, basically TRYING to make myself crazy here, to say that there are three scenarios: 1 (busy); 2 (texting problems); and 3 (all my BS projecting stuff I told you guys). I just realized I have spent most of the day in V (victim) state that i get in where I am so needy and cannot control these things. That means A (abuser) is about to come out and put the smack down, probably. I haven't had these states come on so strong in weeks. Good that I am realizing now...maybe I can circumvent? Haven't had much luck with that before, but here's hoping.

Thanks LG for the empathy. I know you can totally "get" where I'm at with texting and responses, because I've been following your stuff with T1.

DF - Thanks for the extra hug. I need as many as I can get right now. (((((DF))))) According to the paperwork he finally gave me last week (he had forgotten until I brought up that I never received it), I can call and leave a voicemail that will be returned within 24 hours. It is his cell number, so I don't see how that will be any different than texting. I have never, ever, not once, called him. Even when I was "testing." He checks his email a couple of times a week, when he has computer access. He isn't able to look at it even daily. I do plan on writing up a session reflection when I get time to myself, which I haven't had yet since last night's session, due to H, HOA board duties, Boo, church volunteering, lunch with mom, now watching nephew AND Boo and H got home. Sigh. That's how I've been keeping myself safe, though, so I guess it's good.

I...just can't. It's a good idea, DF, but I can't. I don't know why. I can't call him. I have other people around. So, no matter how much I "need" T, I don't feel like I can bother him with a call.

Aw yaku- I'm sorry you are suffering so much. It feels really bad. Just know your T isn't thinking bad things about you, doesn't make the "feeling" go away. I understand that.
When is your next session?

Phone session is Friday, 10:00 AM. It feels so far away. I just want to hear that he's OK with all my insanity. I'm wrecked. I know he does so much, but I could be OK with less if he would just be consistent.

quote:

Originally posted by yakusoku:
Phone session is Friday, 10:00 AM. It feels so far away. I just want to hear that he's OK with all my insanity. I'm wrecked. I know he does so much, but I could be OK with less if he would just be consistent.

I think that's one of the problems with Ts who over-extend themselves and allow so much outside contact...it puts them in a position where at some point, they are going to be inconsistent. its inevitable. My T1 is the same way. She is so much more available to me than T2 is, yet in being so available, it also opens her up to letting me down from time to time and leaving me feeling abandoned (like last night when she didn't text me back).

I know that's probably it. But my paranoid thoughts, like he's trying to get me to connect to my feelings about my abuse/neglect/abandonment by purposefully pissing me off in the present so we can explore it via transference seem more real right now. ARGGHHHH...well, if that's what he is doing, I am SERIOUSLY connected to some anger and hurt right now. F--- me for being so hopelessly attached to this T who can only seem to hurt me no matter how "good" he is.

quote:

But my paranoid thoughts, like he's trying to get me to connect to my feelings about my abuse/neglect/abandonment by purposefully pissing me off in the present so we can explore it via transference seem more real right now.

Yaku... I hope those are just your paranoid thoughts working there because any T who would do that I would run from in a second! That would be manipulating you and therapy which is NOT a good thing.

I am so sorry what sounded like a really great connection session ended so badly for you. I was thinking how wonderful your T was being in remembering so much of what you needed and then giving it to you. Like doing the "okay now we are in the car drving" routine. That was so sweet of him to do and remember.

I'm not clear on why you freaked out at the end of the session... was it because he didn't notice you were crying? Was he still sitting next to you at the time? Were you looking at each other or facing the "windshield" while talking?

Could I gently suggest something for you to ponder? It seems that often you become upset just at the leaving time and then have to sit in your car and text him? Could you be suffering from separation anxiety? Like a grown up version of a child screaming in fear and protest when their parent leaves them alone with a new sitter. Could it be possible that no matter what he said at the end of session you would feel scared, upset, emotional and/or angry?

I ask this because I have had problems in leaving my Ts.... more with oldT but I still get this awful feeling when I leave my current T and have to struggle with feelings of insecurity, fear, shame and anger that my session is over, that he didn't give me extra time and that I have to wait to see him again. I have learned to deal with it and it has taken years. I have tried lots of different strategies with both Ts. I'm still not happy with how my T ends our sessions even though he has been wonderful in all other ways. And we HAVE discussed it and I told him I need some kind of signal or warning about 5 minutes or so before the end of session to prepare myself mentally and emotionally to detach from him. I was just thinking the other day that we need to revisit the topic.

Maybe you need to talk about the ending of sessions? Try to find a way that brings you back into the therapeutic window... i.e. make sure you don't leave so activated that you need to immediately text him, thus setting yourself up for more anxiety and worry.

Those are just some thoughts and if they don't apply just toss them out.

I'm sure there is a good reason you are not getting a response to the texts. My T does not allow texting so I don't have experience with this and basically have to learn to manage the feelings until I can hear from him or see him again. I can email him but it takes until the next day for a response (and this is good considering what other Ts do).

I'm glad to hear you are keeping yourself safe and have people around you and of course you can always talk to us. I hope we can help bridge the time until Friday for you.

Sending you hugs,
TN

quote:

It seems that often you become upset just at the leaving time and then have to sit in your car and text him? Could you be suffering from separation anxiety? Like a grown up version of a child screaming in fear and protest when their parent leaves them alone with a new sitter. Could it be possible that no matter what he said at the end of session you would feel scared, upset, emotional and/or angry?

TN - You and I think exactly the same way sometimes. As a mom of a toddler, a child care provider and someone who has taken some early childhood education classes, this had occurred to me. I should have mentioned this in the first post, but when we talked about attachment, we also talked about my separation anxiety feelings a bit. I told him about two months ago (right around our first transference conversation) that I felt like I was suffering from something like separation anxiety and how painful ending is. He sometimes voices that pain for me. One time he prayed specifically about it, something like, "God, leaving is so hard!" and said it with so much feeling. I think that's the only time I didn't have such a rough time with leaving, but if it feels manufactured (like I specifically ask him to always voice it for me), I don't think it will work. I was actually feeling really good about leaving this session until he said he didn't notice. And, realistically, I was buried in myself and don't know if he was looking at me while in that state. I know when I looked at him, he engaged me back by looking at me, but perhaps he looks away when I am very upset because he senses I'm uncomfortable being stared at when I'm emotional. So, I get WHY he wouldn't notice me. I guess, I just expected him to know better than to say he was oblivious to my pain after that conversation. If he had even worded it, "I'm sorry I didn't notice," I would have still been OK. But, it made me feel like his understanding was not where I thought it was. It was the end of a long day and probably just a thoughtless comment, but it hurt so dang much. It was like being punched in the temple.

Thanks, Monte. I'm a big fan of my T too! I sent him another entry last night, but it is so long I'm kind of hoping he doesn't read it, as I may feel very guilty. Here, I have to remind myself that there are no promises of how much he will or will not read and whatever he chooses is his responsibility and not mine and I just have to receive it as a gift. Anyway, it has all my session reflections, including some stuff on closeness and then this clarifying paragraph (which is followed by how him not noticing made me felt):

quote:

Your comments on what would happen if I broke down and sobbed made me feel like you hadn’t really understood what I was trying to convey when I wrote the paragraph. It’s not that I was ever afraid that you would disappear, disintegrate or be afraid or appalled by my emotional outburst…it’s that you would be detached and indifferent. The commentary on being a zoo exhibit was aimed at this idea. Basically, the question about how you would deal with me losing control in that way was not aimed at what would happen to you, but how you would respond to me and what would happen within me as a result. Would you just watch me as I fall apart? Honestly, that is terrifying! The experience of crying in front of anyone is frightening enough as it is without imagining someone watching me as if I were some injured animal that would be better off euthanized. I think I was trying to ask in what way you would plan to be with me in that place, to keep me safe and grounded. The only two people who I have ever regularly cried in front of are my mother and H. In my mother’s case, my memories of crying always meant she had defeated me, because if I was hurt and upset, it was like an admission of guilt for whatever bad things he was accusing me of (not doing enough, giving enough, caring enough, etc.). With H, on occasion, I will repeat that experience of internalizing accusations, but other times, I am able to cry with him just because he provides a physical presence. If I am upset (and we are alone), just him holding me unleashes it. So, my main experiences with expressing my own pain (I clarify, because I do not find empathetic crying to be as distressing) are in the context of either attack or marital affection. Therapy will be a totally new context for expressing myself in that way, if it happens, so I need to know what to expect. I think all the other questions on where the boundaries are, what support I can ask for, or even if I will need to ask or you will offer it, are geared toward this same concern: how do you plan to respond to my pain? I am afraid you will be paralyzed too and not respond at all, which would be terrifying (as I said) and devastating.

I think I'm realizing that whether or not he offers me closeness is not the issue. It is about if he just has something in mind to make me feel safe in the experience of "losing control." For explanation of the above (which T knows already), my mom would get in my face, threaten me and verbally attack/berate me until I crumbled any time I put up any sort of boundary about her dysfunction, my role as mom to her kids, etc. And when I would break down, she would have a look of satisfaction on her face, like me being upset made her right and me wrong...it made her the winner...it was like exposing a weakness and she would attack it harder. So, crying scares the $#!+ out of me. Even if he can't come place a hand on me, I need him to be prepared with a way to make me feel not alone in that experience. I need to know he won't just watch. I think that is more important than my wanting closeness or touch. And I really think I can trust his judgment on it.

My answer, I guess, is that I would like him to move right next to me, place a hand on or squeeze my shoulder and tell me "You're safe. I'm here. It's OK to let go." And then reassure me it's also OK if I cannot manage to let it out too. But, I don't know if I can tell him all that or even if my asking for it rather than it being offered will make it impossible for me to really receive it. I know I might need to ask for it WHEN I need it, but if I am the one who initially defines the parameters, I will think I'm giving him a script. I'd like him to initially define the parameters. It feels safer and more natural. I think I'd feel more comfortable telling him what I'm NOT comfortable with than what I am. For example, a sudden physical gesture without any sort of offering or signaling first would be distressing to me.

Edit: I do want to say that although that's what I want, even just him moving closer and expressing my safety, even showing he is feeling for me would go a long way. How would he do that? I can barely look at him! I can imagine him maybe getting my attention (saying my first name or "Kiddo"), asking me to look at him and THEN telling me he cares and it will be OK. Ugh, I am about to make myself start crying just imagining him being tender and kind to me like that.

That scenario sounds very comforting, Yaku. I hope you are able to get this from your T some day.