Hummingbird,
what you described is my current fantasy and hope for what I would like my therapy to become. Love, beautiful, genuine love that does not hurt.
However there is also love that can hurt badly.
I am not sure which one my therapeutic love is going to be yet. I'm in between, afraid to take the step. Maybe not so much afraid but getting ready to jump into it. It could be either way, I will love him absolutely and be perfectly happy just to be able to express it freely.
Or I will hurt and miss him every minute I don't see him, and live only during one hour a week.

TN, maybe there is a bridge that you could find and walk from the painfull love into the happy one. Maybe if you stayed he could help you find it and loving your T will stop hurting you without you stopping loving him?
Don't know if that makes sense, but I think I can imagine how it must feel for you right now. I believe there is a way out of pain but not out of love.

(((TN)))

I'm so sorry you are struggling. I feel like we are on the same path. The last 2-3 months have been agonizing for me. I've considered quitting every single week. I've frequently (maybe constantly) left my session thinking I'm not going back, I'm not going to call or email and I've usually failed and been contacting him in the next 24 hours and I've been to every session. I've been depressed and had trouble keeping up with my job and my kids.

I'm not going to discuss how your T feels about you because I'm think I agree with you. I am completely agonizingly dependent on him and I am afraid he wouldn't even notice if I left (except for the money of course). I will share with you the couple of things that have made the last 2 weeks a little easier for me.

The first was realizing that a big part of my agony was in the struggle to quit and also my fear of how much I felt for and about him. Eventually I hit a point where I decided I wasn't going back(he hadn't responded to an email) but really it was the accumulated feelings of the last couple of months. I struggled trying to decide if I should just call and cancel, write, send a final cheque, thank you card, goodbye note, disappear without a trace etc. I was almost dysfunctional with anxiety and fear and depression until I gave myself permission to not decide, to wait until the day of my appt. Almost immediately I felt calmer. Even though I think it might be better (healthier, safer) to quit I couldn't stand it. By my next session (2 weeks ago) I realized that I was completely dependent and I needed to keep going for myself regardless of what he thinks of me or feels for me.

The second thing I've noticed is that since I stopped the mental conversation about quitting I am having thoughts and issues about my childhood abuse and how I relate to it. So the 2 or 3 months I spent worrying about if I should stay in therapy also seemed to keep my own stuff out of consciousness and maybe that was my mind's defence mechanism.

I won't try to give you any advice except before you quit have you talked it out with your T enough. I talked for hours about why I wanted to quit, what he wasn't doing, I told him we weren't even in the same book much less the same page or another time that he completely missed the boat and have not told him why. I've showed him my struggle to continue coming, my fear of dependency, my fear of my feeling for him, all of it.

He suggested I come see him 2x a week which I thought was crazy after all wouldn't that make me more dependent. He said you already are maybe it will help us avoid miscommunication and misunderstandings. So now I am in a slightly calmer place, trying to fit in an extra session on some weeks if possible.

I wish you luck and keep expressing your feelings to us and your T until you can decide to terminate because you want to not just because you are afraid to continue.

((((((((((TN)))))))))))

I have been where you are so many times, and the breakthrough point for me came from my writing a poem trying to express what I was feeling and what I was looking for. I sent it to my T before our session and he had obviously spent some time with it trying to understand where I was coming from. As we were talking about it, he hit it square on the head. My deepest belief was that pain was an integral part of love; that to love is to be in pain. Therefore, the only way to stop the pain is to leave love. Which is a horrible choice: being totally alone or in pain. But when you put it that way, I realized it described my childhood. No wonder I believed it so deeply.

My T explained to me that the truth is that pain is an inevitable part of life, but love is the answer to that pain. He actually used birth as a way to explain the process. That we are in a place of safety and comfort where all our needs are met without our having to express them. Then without warning, we are expelled into a confusion of light, cold, pain and distress. We don't really know what it's like for a newborn but most people come into this life screaming in protest. But when that happens, someone reaches out, gathers us in and soothes us, letting us know that it's going to be ok. And so we learn that when we are in pain, we can move towards another person to handle that pain. But, so sadly, that didn't happen for us. So we learned something very different from the truth.

The truth is that you are free to love your T as HB so eloquently put it. You are also free to take your pain and longing and anguish and anger about the relationship to him, so that your pain can be heard and you can be comforted. You can learn the true purpose of love. The therapy relationship in one way will NEVER be enough. You are recognizing something real in feeling that way. BUT, and this is a crucial but, it is a place where you can mourn, and be heard and heal enough to go on with your life, and to live fully. The love you find there may not take the form you wish (and you know I understand that) but it is love nonetheless, and it is a love which heals.

I know that it seems cruel of me to tell you that the solution is to keep going despite this pain. If I didn't know there was healing ahead of you I would be the world's worst sadist. But there is healing. You will come out on the other side of this.

AG

Incognito,
While I wasn't happy to hear how you've been struggling, it was really good to hear from you! I've missed you around here. But I am glad to hear that your T is treating how you''re feeling with compassion and understanding. You'll find your way through.

AG

Hi TN,

I'm so sorry to hear about the pain you are in. You are, among other people on this forum, one of those seemingly invincible people in my eyes and it's almost startling to see what you're currently going through. I feel like I've very little authority to give you advice or support but I will try my best and just reassure you that I care about what happens to you and how you are getting on.

I saw my ex-T over two periods, with a 4 month break in between. While I did think about him on the break, the crunch came when I realised I would be relocating and to be honest when I knew I would be continuing therapy I basically accepted that part of my reason for moving was him. On the other hand, I had noticed my feelings for him creeping up on me but after discussing it with another counsellor I had hoped that the trust we had and the ground we had covered previously was more important. What I didn't expect, however, was how much my feelings for him would intensify. Like you put it, every week seemed to push me further into the dependency and thus hurt that I couldn't be with him. I couldn't express these feelings. When we discussed dependency and I began crying his statement of supposed comfort was "it's difficult to see how needy we are sometimes isn't it?" It hit me like a slap on the face. It seemed like he overlooked the importance of what I was trying to tell him and had just branded me as "attention seeking" And that how I felt my feelings for him would be viewed. I hated it and still do. I still have those feelings. My leaving him came abruptly due to external circumstances but while it hurts (or at least I think it does, I am totally numb these days) in a way I am glad as I'm scared of how further I would've sunk into dependency.

The thing is though, much as it hurts, maybe the deepening of the transference is similar to delving further into the pain at the root of our problems. It's accepting feelings of love and care that we have that can't be requited or aren't. It is not that our T's don't love us but it is a different kind of love. Of course, I am only surmising here, your situation could be totally different. I loved my T and still do. I think he knew it. I told him in a letter on leaving that he would always have a place in my heart. I have never written anything so heartbreakingly open in all of my life and again, I'm not sure if I ever will. But I'm happy I did.

Apologies as to my ignorance and newness on these forums but have you discussed this pain with your T? Is he supportive through it and does he recognise these feelings as real? I really hope you two can work together on this. I know all you want to is to get some relief from what you are feeling but a quick switch might not do it for you. Just try to weigh up what would be best for you.

All the best,
Mrs. P

Thank you all for the wise responses and the warm hugs. They really help. You all have made such valid points. I know a number of you have mentioned the relationship I have with my T...we do have a very close, emotionally intimate relationship. And although it is hard for me to acknowledge it... I do believe he cares very much about me. He does allow contact between sessions, I can call him and he will usually call me back and sometimes he will even email me or call me to check in. He does keep good boundaries and I have tested them on occasion. We have discussed safe touch and he has taken to patting me on the shoulder when I leave or shaking my hand (mostly I will offer first). And the disruptions have come from his just not realizing certain things or making honest mistakes. He is not abusive in any way. He apologizes and looks truly upset when he hurts me. The trust part is really really hard for me and I have told him many things that no one else knows. I have worked at feeling safe with him and I test him all the time. That's the good news...

But as AG has said wisely... the therapy relationship will never be enough. The pain I feel in loving him can at times swamp all the positive aspects. I know a lot of this wanting to run from him comes from my disorganized attachment. When I start to get too close to him I want to run and disappear but the other part of me is terrified that he will disappear and so I feel it's beter if I leave first. And I realize some of this comes from what I didn't get or learn as a child. There was no comfort and the pain was mine alone to deal with and somehow get past. And so my coping skill was to run to shut down and withdraw (make myself invisible). And I'm afraid if he knows that I love him he will disappear on me.

So what happened last night which I think was a trigger into intense anxiety was that I had to take my son there to his group therapy which is run by other therapists in the same practice. My T was gone. His office was empty. He had left early. I have never in almost 2 years been there in that building and he was not there! I think I felt abandoned...which is so irrational since I would not been seeing him at all (he's usually in session during my son's therapy hour). But I know he's there. I can hear the murmmer of his voice, I see his car in the lot... it's somehow comforting to me. And last night felt so different.

HB... what you said about taking that risk to love openly and unconditionally ... I wish I could do that, and maybe one day I will. I'm glad that you can love your T so freely. I have thought a lot about your post way back about loving with an open hand. That resonated with me and it something to strive for.

Incognito... I am happy to see you post and that you came out of lurkdom to post to me. I found your post very comforting as what you write is so much how I feel. What you say about how you struggled to find a way to end therapy. I was having those exact thoughts last night. I know it's the dependency threat that I find intolerable. I don't know how to depend and when I try it I feel so uncomfortable with it. My T mentioned to me yesterday that he noticed I'm calling him more and emailing and I don't even wait and so, of course, I took that to mean I'm horribly needy and pathetic. I told him the need has not changed it 's just that I'm daring to reach out to him and ask for things now. But I am left with the feeling that he disapproves... and I will grant that this may be MY own discomfort.

And yes, the urge to run can also be me avoiding things that we need to address about my childhood. It's seems somehow better to run from it because the pain is frightening.

Amazon thanks for your post too. I hope we can find that elusive bridge that takes me out of the pain but not the love. I hope you can find it too.

Mrs. P...I have tried to bring up this subject with my T. Although he is a good T he seems to have his own issues with being uncomfortable about the transference. I think he knows I care deeply for him and I think it scares him on some level. I have accused him of moving away from ME when I try to get close to him. He sort of admitted it. We so seem to have an open and honest relationship and I know he is committed to seeing it through. He has told me this, he has written it down for me but on some level I still cannot believe it. I am waiting for him to hurt or abandon me and so I struggle with wanting to leave first.

I know you have all suggested talking to him about my wanting to terminate and I think this is the best thing to do. To tell him the feelings I'm having about running from him and therapy and to look at all the reasons I'm feeling this way. I honestly do understand that if I run from him I'm taking all the problems and pain with me anyway. It's like they say... "wherever you go... there you are".

I need to collect my thoughts and maybe write them down and when I see him next week (I will see him Thursday with my son but not sure I'll talk to him then) we can talk about me being a "flight risk"!

Thanks again to all of you. Incognito...I'm sorry the past few months have been so agonizing for you too. Please continue to let us know how you are doing. We missed your voice around here.

TN

Mrs P .. I wanted to add that I know you have been going through a tough time lately and I'm glad you found a new T and things seem to be working out with her. I wish you success in working these things you struggle with through and I appreciate your response.

TN

Just a short update.. I had to call my T today on an insurance matter. We talked for 6 minutes (yes I checked) and he was warm and funny and I made him laugh. That short conversation did so much good for me today. I will see him tomorrow. I don't know if we will have time to talk about me since it's my son's appointment but just seeing him and getting a smile helps.

TN

The hardest thing for me is accepting my T's care and attention which comes with no strings attached. I can't do or give her anything she needs that will "bind" her to me and help me to feel safe knowing that she isn't going anywhere because she needs me as much as I need her. She tells me that she does get things from me, even things that are valuable to her but they are so off my radar that I don't see the value in them. The imbalance is confusing to me and keeps me feeling skittish - like a poor stray kitten hiding under a bush in the rain. Miserable, cold and wet but too frightened to go towards the hand offered out to help it.

Meow.

((((((TN))))))

TN, I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. My Grama died on Sunday morning so we've been busy with the arrangements. I've been keeping up on the reading, though, and you've been in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm so sorry you're feeling so much pain over your T. Like HB said, I had no idea you were in this much pain. I'm glad you told us. You've received a lot of good responses from others, and I would second the motion to talk to your T about how you're feeling.

I wish I could give you more encouragement than that. On the one hand, everything you've said, I felt with my ex-T. On the other hand, you know how that turned out. But your T sounds worlds apart from my ex-T in his humility and compassion for you. So it sounds like there's a good chance that talking with your T about this will eventually work things out.

It is interesting to note that I do not have these kinds of fears with my current T, and I don't expect to. I've been wondering why that is, and if it's significant. It is true that I can continue to learn what I needed to learn from the old T with the new T. But would I have learned something additional, or different, if the therapy would have worked out with my ex-T? And is there something I need to learn or change that can only be triggered by a male T? This is a question I'm going to ask my T next Monday.

One more hug...(((((TN)))))...I'm glad you're here, TN. I hope tomorrow's session brings you some comfort and peace of mind.

Peace,
SG

Thanks SG for your kind words. Please don't apologize for not being around. I'm sorry about the death of your Grama... my sincere condolences. I adored my grandmother... she was so oppposite of my own mother. My T tells me I am a lot like her and I would like to think so but she was a very strong woman and I never feel that way. I think it was because of even her limited presence in my life that I am not totally messed up. She died about 15 years ago. I still miss her.

I am starting to feel the anxiety again about my relationship with my T. It abated for a day and now it's back. I am feeling that our relationship is being threatened in some way by something that is hard to name. And I am having angry feelings about him that I know he does not deserve and that I cannot understand. It may just be my way of putting distance between us when I cannot tolerate the closeness. Or it may be my frustration at therapy not and never being enough for me. That I have this endless need that he cannot fill or satisfy and so I'm angry at him for not fixing me. There is probably some grief under all of this that I do not want to look at.

Sounds like you have a good but different relationship with your new T. I think your question is a good one and worth discussing with her.

Thanks for the hugs. I could use them. I'll let you all know what happens.

TN

Thought I would give an update on seeing my T on Thursday night. It was not really my appointment but we did have a brief moment to talk.

When I got there he came out and smiled at me and spoke to my son a minute. I offered him my hand for a handshake to congratulate him on his team winning and he warmly shook my hand and teased me a little. He then inquired if I wanted to come in first to bring him up to date. We agreed that I would have 10 minutes before my son went in. He looked at me and told me it was important for him to check in with me and see how I was doing. Now, he had no idea of all that was going through my head the past few days, about quitting, about how I was struggling with anxiety or abandonment etc. He just said he "knows" me and wanted to make sure I didn't need anything from him and that I was doing okay. I told him I had a rough few days but I would need 2 hours to talk about it. He gently told me that he understood I needed time to discuss it and work through it but I could at least tell him what it was. So I chose to tell him about my anxiety and a little of how I felt on Monday when I was there and he was gone during my son's group time. He listened and nodded and asked me a few questions. We were then out of time but at least he has a heads-up about Monday's session.

At the end we spoke again a few minutes, mostly about my son but he was caring and warm and not at all the scary, cold, unfeeling person I had conjured up in my head. We really didn't talk about much but I left there feeling a lot better. I did have some anxiety again later on in the night but I held onto the transitional object he had given me a few months ago and it helped and I kept reminding myself that he cared and I tried to focus on those caring aspects of him rather than me just being a number and that it was all "unreal".

I thought I'd let you all know since you have been so supportive of me during this time. I see him on Monday and we can discuss this further. And I'm in a calm place now where I feel I can wait until Monday and don't need to contact him before that.

Thanks again for all the support.

TN

Hi TN,

I was wondering how things went with your T and I'm so glad you gave us an update. Thank you for sharing what happened. It is wonderful that he was so attuned to you. It sounds like he was picking up on your anxiety and it must have felt so good to have him act warm and caring, and to ask you what was going on. Good job trusting him enough to let him in on it. I can really tell from the sound of your post that this relieved a lot of that built-up pressure inside of you. Enjoy the calm this weekend and please let us know how Monday goes. I'll be thinking of you.

SG

Hi TN.

Just want to add my well wishes to those that have followed your last session. I'm glad you feel a little better and at least have some comfort before you go into Monday's session.

Take care and let us know how it goes,
Mrs. P

Hugs SG this much be such a difficult time for you. I am thinking of you.

quote:

A year ago when I was deeply attached to my P I couldn't possibly imagine what my life would be without him. I wanted him in my life forever.

Now, as I look back over the year and no longer have these deep feelings for him, I can't imagine him back in my life!

Summer how did you get to this point? At this time that doesn't seem possible for me, your words are like a light at the end of the tunnel.

TN,
I read on some other tread that you didn't have a very good session and thinking of leaving. Sorry to hear that and I wish I could offer some words to make you feel better.
I know I've been fluffing around here all happy and cheerful about my T. I wish I could respond to somebody's difficult feelings the way you are respond to me being happy at the moment.

If you find strength and time to tell about how your session with your T go I would like to hear it too. I hope things will get better sometime for you too. Warm hug for you if this could be of any help.

Hi everyone. I'm sorry I didn't post an update last night but I was too upset and in a really bad place after my session. I want to thank everyone who offered support both on this thread and also on SG's "Still Punching" thread. You kind words mean so much to me and they have helped me a great deal.

I went into yesterday's session having thought a lot about what I needed to say to my T. I wanted to talk to him about my feelings of leavinig therapy on Monday. Why I thought I felt like this and to discuss it. I have always struggled with the urge to run from my T, especially when my feelings for him get very strong or I feel too close to him. It's part of disorganized attachment. I also had some other ideas of why I felt anxiety on Monday night when I took my son to his group and my T was not there, having left the office unusually early. As I sat and read in the reception room I started feeling scared and very much alone. I had never been there for any reason when he was not in his office. Even if I don't see him I know he's there. I can hear his voice. It brings me comfort while I sit and read. I have made some connections as to what caused this feeling and I wanted to share that with my T and discuss everything. I brought a copy of my original posts on this thread and read it to him and then told him of the support I received here (I didn't name the site).

And right after this he says to me that he thinks I should start taking medication for anxiety. I don't take anything now. This is not really discussed on the Board and I have no idea how many of you take antidepressants or anti-anxiety meds but I feel that they are not for me and that I do not need them. This was the 4th time we had a major, session long discussion about it and he knows my position and I'm not changing my mind. I could not believe that he started pressuring me again after I had gotten really angry with him the 3 previous times. He kept hammering at me and the more he did the more I started to dissociate. Yes, I do have anxiety but I can function very well. I hold down a job, raise a family, attend school with A's, run a house, socialize and do therapy. I'm not sure what else he feels I should be doing.

The way he kept hammering at me made me dig in my heels. I was not going to change my mind and all he succeeded in doing was making me feel like a failure. That he saw me as very defective and not doing therapy the way I should which led me to feel shame and I wanted to truly run away. He mentioned that meds would help me heal in a more timely manner and my thought was that I was taking too long in therapy and that he wants me gone. He stressed that he didn't want to see me in pain and if I could avoid the pain why wouldn't I want to?

I have no problem with others taking meds if they need them. I'm sure they do help in many cases. I just don't feel that I need them in order to live my life and even do the therapy. I have some personal reasons why I do not want medication including that medication harmed a close family member. And in my case I don't think the rewards of it outweigh the risks involved. I am hurt because I have worked very hard at therapy and I know that pain will be involved. I don't think meds will take away the pain of what I didn't get as a child. It won't take away the abuse. And it won't make me stop loving him. I am willing to go towards the pain in order to look at it, heal, and let it go and I need him to be with me on this. I kept saying to him that I needed to talk about my feelings about last Monday and he said we would... but we never got the chance to. By the end of the session I was sobbing with hurt and frustration at not being heard. He actually extended my session by 30 minutes because I was in no condition to leave.

At the end of the session he told me to call him if I need him. Then at the door we hugged a moment and I asked him if he was angry with me and he said no. Then I asked him if I had disappointed him (because this is how I felt) and he said to me "if I was your parent I would be very proud of you". I said thanks and ran out before I could fall apart again.

Later that night I got an email from him checking in on me. I have not answered him because I have no idea what to say. I'm hurt and angry.

And so that is basically what happened (short version). I have a lot to think about right now and I may post a topic on medication on another thread.

Thanks to everyone for the support and for listening.

TN

((TN))

I am sorry your T wasn't able to hear what you needed to say at that point in time. It is so frustrating when your T doesn't meet you where you are. It does sound like he cares deeply for you.

((TN))

I am so very sorry your T wasn't able to hear you in your session. I empathize with you greatly as I had a similar experience with my T not hearing or seeing me (on a completely different issue) almost 2 months ago. I still haven't recovered from it. I felt incredibly hurt, betrayed, and yes, angry. And have distanced myself further from my T than I ever have before. I understand your feelings, and am so sorry for the place you find yourself in.

I, like you, have an aversion to taking anti-depressants or anti-anxiety meds for myself. It is a personal preference that, thankfully, my T understands and respects. I have to say, I am taken aback that your T would continue to press the issue after you refused, especially in light of the fact that on several other occasions you made your position clear to him. You are right, the meds won't take the pain away, won't take away or change the past, and won't make you stop loving your T. Though they may take the edge off of the feelings, they don't truly change anything. It is up to us to decide what our threshold is to deal with the inevitable pain that therapy brings up. I commend you for knowing what is right for you, and standing your ground against what had to have felt like enormous pressure.

Having said all that, I do think that your T was trying to act in your best interests, albeit not in the best way for you. From what you have said in many other posts, I believe that your T truly cares for you, and truly does not want to see you in pain if it can be avoided. However, while the sentiment might be appreciated, the therapy process is going to incite pain. As you said, you are willing to move into the pain to see it, understand it, heal from it, and ultimately let it go. And your T needs to be willing to see you feel that pain, talk about it with you to come to a place of understanding, support you as you heal from it, and be there to see you emerge from the other side free of it.

I hope you and your T can work this out together.

Take Care,
Musical Me

TN,

I agree with HB nd I believe your T suggesting you trying to take medication does really care and wants to help you. I think he sees your pain and can't make it go away in a few sessions, but I'm sure he does want you to feel better.

I know a lot of people would feel very suspicious about antidepressants. I've been taking them for a while in the past when I felt I couldn't cope and unfortunately during that time psychotherapy was unavailbe to me for financial reasons.

I understand it like that: when you are sore, or part of your body is sore, let's say you have a bad toothache. The painkiller surely won't cure it. It will take away the pain for a while but it will not make it good tooth again. So if you stay on painkiller only that's not going to do you any good. If you go to the dentist he may need to apply the painkiller first before he can cure your tooth.
I just think your T wants to ease off your pain a little so then he will be able to heal it altogether.

Hi TN, I was just thinking when I read what Summer and HB said about alternative methods, have you tried yoga? I tried it and found that it was a bit to peaceful for me and I prefer martial arts. Just a suggestion.

Hi everyone... I just wanted to post a further update to my story. But first I want to thank everyone for their suggestions an support. And HB... I could never be angry with you!

As I mentioned on Monday night I got an email from my T that I didn't answer but I did call him on Wednesday morning and ask for a half session. I hate when I'm upset with him and feel that he is upset with me too. I'm not one to let it sit and so I called and he scheduled me for that afternoon.

We calmly sat and discussed how I felt and how he made me feel. He listened and both of us were more calm (okay.. he's always calm) but I think we could really hear each other. I asked him why he brought up the meds again on that day and he said it was partly because of an inquiry my insurance company made as to why I was not taking medication and asking if he spoke to me about it. Then he also said it was important that we are able to have a dialogue about it.

I then told him I'd like to try other alternative methods for controlling my anxiety and that I didn't think it was serious enough or impacted me enough to turn to medication at this point. I asked him if he would teach me to meditate (he had offered to do this awhile ago), and I suggested that I go back to my walking program and perhaps try some CBT methods of changing my thought pattern around the triggers of my anxiety. So we are going to try this for awhile.

When I first took the step to go into therapy I was an anxious mess but I was also dealing with my mother's illness and death and problems my son was having along with work problems. Then for a long while the anxiety lessened until another crisis. So it comes and goes and is not really present all the time. Of course it also seems to come back lately because we are dealing with some traumatic memories.

I also spent about 25 minutes with him on Thursday during my son's appointment. While sitting with him and feeling safe and secure I had a breakthrough and was able to pinpoint the reason I became so scared and anxious that Monday evening sitting in his waiting area. We didn't have much time to explore it because he needed to see my son but I am hopeful we can take this up again on Monday.

Overall I do feel like we are back to a good place. He told me he was not angry with me but he was frustrated because he is human and he just does not want me to suffer unnecessarily if there is help out there. He reiterated that he does care about me. I told him I believed him.

So that's where we are now. Thanks again everyone for the words of advice and for sharing your stories and experiences. I found it very helpful and calming.

TN