I'm in the same sort of therapy as you LL, what I found disturbing was his remark about you wanting him to be as you want him to be. Thats the whole point of learning to be creative isn't it? My therapist in the past said I was free to "use" her how ever I want.
((((((((LL))))))))
Middle of the night here, LL, But I just want to say both that I am SO pleased it went this way, and that I'm not at all surprised it feels extremely scary. I think he thought hard about you and your situation and realised you need what you say you need. Perhaps it was hard to come to that conclusion because he also knows the boundaries are valuable. I'm sorry you had to work SO damn hard to get heard, but I'm delighted and hopeful that he heard. I wonder if this session marks the beginning of a 'therapeutic repair'. If so, let it take time- I found the first repair I experienced extremely new and confusing - it certainly took more than one session for it to feel ok.
love,
Jones
Middle of the night here, LL, But I just want to say both that I am SO pleased it went this way, and that I'm not at all surprised it feels extremely scary. I think he thought hard about you and your situation and realised you need what you say you need. Perhaps it was hard to come to that conclusion because he also knows the boundaries are valuable. I'm sorry you had to work SO damn hard to get heard, but I'm delighted and hopeful that he heard. I wonder if this session marks the beginning of a 'therapeutic repair'. If so, let it take time- I found the first repair I experienced extremely new and confusing - it certainly took more than one session for it to feel ok.
love,
Jones
ps congratulations on having communicated your needs so well!
Hey LL... wow I 'm glad your T finally heard you and heard you well. Good for you for going back and laying it all on the line. Of course you don't trust his turnaround... I wouldn't either. Whenever our Ts change like that it's very scary because it causes us to mistrust our own judgement. We need our Ts to be consistent and never changing. The problem I had with my T was that he was always moving around and I never knew who I would find in his chair.
I think you get 5 stars for going in there and asking for what you need and even if he can't be everything you need it seems as if he is willing to negotiate the stuff with you and he is now open to hearing more of what YOU think would be helpful in your therapy with him. This is good. And of course you don't trust it! I think the only way to trust it is to keep going back and see if he holds to it. Maybe he is slow in getting to know you and now realizes that rigid boundaries don't work for you. At least you got Mr. Nice Guy today who was willing to hear you out.
So take a deep breath and go back next week and see if he's still Mr. Nice Guy. You have already invested so much in this therapy I would say to give it a bit more time seeing that he is attempting to offer you what you need. If he goes back to Mr. Rigid then you would have good reason to leave him.
I know how hard this is and I wish you the best. I would be interested in hearing more about your post therapy thoughts.
TN
I think you get 5 stars for going in there and asking for what you need and even if he can't be everything you need it seems as if he is willing to negotiate the stuff with you and he is now open to hearing more of what YOU think would be helpful in your therapy with him. This is good. And of course you don't trust it! I think the only way to trust it is to keep going back and see if he holds to it. Maybe he is slow in getting to know you and now realizes that rigid boundaries don't work for you. At least you got Mr. Nice Guy today who was willing to hear you out.
So take a deep breath and go back next week and see if he's still Mr. Nice Guy. You have already invested so much in this therapy I would say to give it a bit more time seeing that he is attempting to offer you what you need. If he goes back to Mr. Rigid then you would have good reason to leave him.
I know how hard this is and I wish you the best. I would be interested in hearing more about your post therapy thoughts.
TN
quote:I’m now DEEPLY suspicious, saying well here you are telling me you’re going to give me what I’m asking for, yet all along I’ve been asking for it and you haven’t responded before now, and I can’t help feeling that if I hadn’t made a big effort to stick up for myself and sit in this chair none of this would be happening, and it all sounds very inconsistent to me and and it all sounds very inconsistent to me and I don’t know what to think.
LL,
First off, good job going in there and standing up for what you need!! You should be very proud of yourself.
Of course you are mistrustful of his sudden change in direction. Rightfully so. Just because he said that he will try to meet your needs doesn't mean you have to trust him straight away. Not at all. I think that is something that will have to be built over time.
The statement in bold above: Perhaps that is exactly what he was trying to get you to do. To see that you are going to need to learn to ask for what you need and want. It is so hard to do, especially when you have consistently met with a brick wall all of your life when asking for things you need.
Truthfully, you didn't trust him when he was being cold and blank slate like and now that he is changing and saying he will try to meet you where you are at, you are saying you trust him now either. Well, you know what? That is OK! You can't have all of these defenses your whole life and then just suddenly set them all aside and trust someone just because they say you should. If he is worth his salt as a T, he will give you the time and space that you need to slowly build that trust and allow your body to adjust to having your needs met. Time will tell if he is going to continue to be a moving target or if he really is worthy of your trust and can meet you where you are.
Please keep us posted with what happens next session!
LL,
I think I'd be feeling suspicious, too, of this apparent change in attitude with your T. Like others have said, see how it goes over the next few weeks and see how you feel about it.
What I realized with my T is that I don't really want him to change because I think I would feel that same as you're feeling now - that it'd be some kind of false demeanor. What I really want is for him to be different. I told him this the other night and he said, "it's very tempting to see that a change in yourself hinges on me being different." So clearly, he doesn't believe that him being different would facilitate a change in myself. But if you read my response to your reply in my thread, you'll see what I plan on talking to him about tonight, so we'll see.
As for your situation, again, it seems like giving it some time to see how it shakes out might make some sense. It seems that consistency in a Ts demeanor - whether we hate it or like it - also has an important role to play in therapy because we know what to expect. What I don't think you want is a T who's all over the place with how he is in therapy. For all the things I hate about my T, I will grant him that he's incredibly, maddeningly consistent.
Keep us posted.
Russ
I think I'd be feeling suspicious, too, of this apparent change in attitude with your T. Like others have said, see how it goes over the next few weeks and see how you feel about it.
What I realized with my T is that I don't really want him to change because I think I would feel that same as you're feeling now - that it'd be some kind of false demeanor. What I really want is for him to be different. I told him this the other night and he said, "it's very tempting to see that a change in yourself hinges on me being different." So clearly, he doesn't believe that him being different would facilitate a change in myself. But if you read my response to your reply in my thread, you'll see what I plan on talking to him about tonight, so we'll see.
As for your situation, again, it seems like giving it some time to see how it shakes out might make some sense. It seems that consistency in a Ts demeanor - whether we hate it or like it - also has an important role to play in therapy because we know what to expect. What I don't think you want is a T who's all over the place with how he is in therapy. For all the things I hate about my T, I will grant him that he's incredibly, maddeningly consistent.
Keep us posted.
Russ
Hello guys and thank you once again for your wonderful support and responses. I've been umming and ahhing about posting more right now I feel really crap about all this therapy stuff, and each time I try to think about this latest situation with T it's like my mind just slips away from the subject. I think I'm too freaked still to think straight about any of it (and afraid of what will come up, more like) So just posting to say thanks and that I'll come back later to reply properly.
LL
LL
Hi LL - Wow, that's a switch! As I was reading your post, I was feeling very worried - that trepidation you get when you are waiting for something to happen. I can understand how his sudden change could make you feel. I would think that you probably "blew his mind" when you told him exactly what you wanted. He , on some level, probably didn't know how much this was bothering you. I think he did think long and hard about you and his reactions. I would probably go a few more times just to see if he really has heard you and is willing to work on it with you. If he starts to revert though, I know I would probably be out-a-there.
Smiley
Smiley
(((((((LL)))))))
Wow...on the one hand, I'm REALLY happy to hear that your T is taking you seriously and changing his approach to meet your needs. On the other hand, I can really understand your fear in the change itself. I think for me, what would make the difference is his acknowledgement of it. When T's change without explanation or admission, that to me is WAY scarier. This guy sounds like he's really listening to you and is explaining what is going on and why he's changing. I like that.
Oh LL, you are so way overdue for someone to listen and respond to you...I very much hope that this T continues to meet you where you are.
Hugs,
SG
Wow...on the one hand, I'm REALLY happy to hear that your T is taking you seriously and changing his approach to meet your needs. On the other hand, I can really understand your fear in the change itself. I think for me, what would make the difference is his acknowledgement of it. When T's change without explanation or admission, that to me is WAY scarier. This guy sounds like he's really listening to you and is explaining what is going on and why he's changing. I like that.
Oh LL, you are so way overdue for someone to listen and respond to you...I very much hope that this T continues to meet you where you are. Hugs,
SG
Oh hell looks like I just can’t think straight about any of this at the moment. I keep wanting to reply to everyone and keep slewing away from thinking about it. I guess right now all I can do is go along tomorrow and see how it goes. Then maybe I’ll have a better idea of what is going on in me.
I’d like so much to believe the good will you guys are showing about this T - that he actually has heard me and finally understood how much this means to me. But I’m wondering all the time why he couldn’t just have taken my words as truth right from the beginning. Makes me feel all over again that I have to ‘prove’ myself, in order to be taken seriously. That I’ve had to somehow ‘earn’ his recognition and willingness to help me. Blah blah it’s all beyond me at the moment. (No prizes for guessing that these last two sessions have brought a WHOLE LOT OF STUFF up into my awareness, about me and my patterns and my expectations and beliefs. It’s all a bit much right now.)
So once again thank you everyone for your wonderful support, and I am so sorry I haven’t been able to reply to each of you. I expect I shall have a 'bit' more to say after session tomorrow lol.
LL
I’d like so much to believe the good will you guys are showing about this T - that he actually has heard me and finally understood how much this means to me. But I’m wondering all the time why he couldn’t just have taken my words as truth right from the beginning. Makes me feel all over again that I have to ‘prove’ myself, in order to be taken seriously. That I’ve had to somehow ‘earn’ his recognition and willingness to help me. Blah blah it’s all beyond me at the moment. (No prizes for guessing that these last two sessions have brought a WHOLE LOT OF STUFF up into my awareness, about me and my patterns and my expectations and beliefs. It’s all a bit much right now.)
So once again thank you everyone for your wonderful support, and I am so sorry I haven’t been able to reply to each of you. I expect I shall have a 'bit' more to say after session tomorrow lol.
LL
Dear Lamplighter,
dont worry about posting and replying. I am tempted to tell you NOT to reply, because you have just too much to think about at this moment (i know for sure i would not been able to make my self clear and give "updates" in a complex and overwhelming case like this) and you dont "owe" any replies nor to give a "clear" update on anything. We know you are thankful for these replies anyway, you know?
Take your time. We are not in a hurry here, this thread is about you, so if it feels more like a burden right now (to respond and make yourself clear about everything that goes on, then i suggest you rahter let it be if it helps you.) Good luck tomorrow LL.
((ll))
dont worry about posting and replying. I am tempted to tell you NOT to reply, because you have just too much to think about at this moment (i know for sure i would not been able to make my self clear and give "updates" in a complex and overwhelming case like this) and you dont "owe" any replies nor to give a "clear" update on anything. We know you are thankful for these replies anyway, you know?
Take your time. We are not in a hurry here, this thread is about you, so if it feels more like a burden right now (to respond and make yourself clear about everything that goes on, then i suggest you rahter let it be if it helps you.) Good luck tomorrow LL.
((ll))
Yah ok - bit of an update.
Have seen psychoT twice since I last wrote, and a potential new T as well. Haven’t really written much in this time as I seem to be in a state of total confusion lol my ususal razor sharp powers of perception and incisive rational analysis
seem to have deserted me. No bad thing really. I’ve realized I overthink things, and I talk too much. Control control control.
Don’t really know how to explain any of it but the end result is that I’m sticking with psychoT - for some reason despite all the howling and ranting I’ve been doing about him, there is something that tells me this is A Good Thing with him.
Reading on forum what’s happening with others and their Ts I get the impression that therapy can be like this - seeing T as good one session and the next session needing to wear garlic and carry a cross. What’s convinced me is that this guy has (so far lol) remained constant throughout - dunno really but I get the sense he is actually on my side.
Downside is that the black stuff I’ve been going through IS the therapy, so I guess as long as I can accept that and keep going with and through it, I’ll get there in the end. You know I always expected therapy to be about going to sessions and coming out feeling hopeful and positive, dare I say it, feeling better, that the pain gets diminished bit by bit, that you get things you need emotionally that make it all somehow ‘fixed’. Well blow me down but if it isn’t the complete opposite - that the pain and blackness has to come out in all its overwhelming terror first. So long as I believe T can take it, will continue to help me go into it, and stay with me while I’m thrashing about in it, then that’s ok.
It does mean I’m a mess and will stay this way for quite some time. But if that means ultimately getting better, so be it. I’m not shutting down or running away this time, going to go into it and stay in it.
Which is going to make me pretty boring and a big downer. Apologies in advance
Just remind me next time I’m wailing on about wanting to quit, that that’s all part of the therapy too.
LL
p.s. Sorry about not replying to previous posts - I don’t seem able to find proper words right now.
Have seen psychoT twice since I last wrote, and a potential new T as well. Haven’t really written much in this time as I seem to be in a state of total confusion lol my ususal razor sharp powers of perception and incisive rational analysis
seem to have deserted me. No bad thing really. I’ve realized I overthink things, and I talk too much. Control control control.Don’t really know how to explain any of it but the end result is that I’m sticking with psychoT - for some reason despite all the howling and ranting I’ve been doing about him, there is something that tells me this is A Good Thing with him.
Reading on forum what’s happening with others and their Ts I get the impression that therapy can be like this - seeing T as good one session and the next session needing to wear garlic and carry a cross. What’s convinced me is that this guy has (so far lol) remained constant throughout - dunno really but I get the sense he is actually on my side.
Downside is that the black stuff I’ve been going through IS the therapy, so I guess as long as I can accept that and keep going with and through it, I’ll get there in the end. You know I always expected therapy to be about going to sessions and coming out feeling hopeful and positive, dare I say it, feeling better, that the pain gets diminished bit by bit, that you get things you need emotionally that make it all somehow ‘fixed’. Well blow me down but if it isn’t the complete opposite - that the pain and blackness has to come out in all its overwhelming terror first. So long as I believe T can take it, will continue to help me go into it, and stay with me while I’m thrashing about in it, then that’s ok.
It does mean I’m a mess and will stay this way for quite some time. But if that means ultimately getting better, so be it. I’m not shutting down or running away this time, going to go into it and stay in it.
Which is going to make me pretty boring and a big downer. Apologies in advance
Just remind me next time I’m wailing on about wanting to quit, that that’s all part of the therapy too.
LL
p.s. Sorry about not replying to previous posts - I don’t seem able to find proper words right now.
Dear Lamplighter,
its good to hear from you. Though, i am sorry this all therapy "back and forth" causing you so much pain and tress. As you pointed out yourself, THIS IS part of the therapy. i am glad to see that you despite the pain, seem to (creds to you!) clinging to hope, determined to keep going to your New (not so new anymore) T.
No bad thing really. I’ve realized I overthink things, and I talk too much. Control control control.
i bet you just pointed out someting here, essentially important about yourself, to work with in your therapy. The need to have controll- ..in therapy that need is for sure being challenged. (maybe the chair-situation was also about you needing to controll the room??=your T?)
, there is something that tells me this is A Good Thing with him.
(...)(he) remained constant throughout - dunno really but I get the sense he is actually on my side.
This is SO good to hear ll. What tells you this is maybe the "healthy" part of yourself, a voice within you that you should listen carefully to. It will be a good counterforce to the fear voice, that so often tells us the opposite.. The feeling that your T`s on your side, is very important. I think every hard and difficult thing that accours in therapy, to be dealt with, are only possible to deal with and face, when the working alliance between you and your T is set. That he remained constant- and you recognize it as something you value is also great, i think. A good T does remain constant and stabile, thats what makes us build trust in them.
I’m not shutting down or running away this time, going to go into it and stay in it.
...Thombs up ll, you`re so brave. Dont forget that, in all the difficulties your dealing with now. Dont forget give yourself credit for all the great work that you have allready done, as well. Maybe the hardest part is passing now? Your decition about staying with your T (for now at least), is maybe a "fruit" of a long and hard inner fight? I too, hope (and think he will) keep being there for you, and stay constant with you, and handle all of your stuff and feelings, not running away. He`s there as long as you are there. Thats he`s job.
Be well LL. Take good care of your self (and let your T as well.) I doubt you`re going to be boring, no need to apaologize. People whom are in pain or in contact with their own vulnerability is certainly never boring. I hope you`ll let us be here and support you, in the very limited- way that is possible on a cyber- forum. I am sure i`ll be fan of this LL
(i allready AM)
its good to hear from you. Though, i am sorry this all therapy "back and forth" causing you so much pain and tress. As you pointed out yourself, THIS IS part of the therapy. i am glad to see that you despite the pain, seem to (creds to you!) clinging to hope, determined to keep going to your New (not so new anymore) T.
quote:
No bad thing really. I’ve realized I overthink things, and I talk too much. Control control control.
quote:
i bet you just pointed out someting here, essentially important about yourself, to work with in your therapy. The need to have controll- ..in therapy that need is for sure being challenged. (maybe the chair-situation was also about you needing to controll the room??=your T?)
quote:
, there is something that tells me this is A Good Thing with him.
(...)(he) remained constant throughout - dunno really but I get the sense he is actually on my side.
quote:
This is SO good to hear ll. What tells you this is maybe the "healthy" part of yourself, a voice within you that you should listen carefully to. It will be a good counterforce to the fear voice, that so often tells us the opposite.. The feeling that your T`s on your side, is very important. I think every hard and difficult thing that accours in therapy, to be dealt with, are only possible to deal with and face, when the working alliance between you and your T is set. That he remained constant- and you recognize it as something you value is also great, i think. A good T does remain constant and stabile, thats what makes us build trust in them.
quote:
I’m not shutting down or running away this time, going to go into it and stay in it.
quote:
...Thombs up ll, you`re so brave. Dont forget that, in all the difficulties your dealing with now. Dont forget give yourself credit for all the great work that you have allready done, as well. Maybe the hardest part is passing now? Your decition about staying with your T (for now at least), is maybe a "fruit" of a long and hard inner fight? I too, hope (and think he will) keep being there for you, and stay constant with you, and handle all of your stuff and feelings, not running away. He`s there as long as you are there. Thats he`s job.
Be well LL. Take good care of your self (and let your T as well.) I doubt you`re going to be boring, no need to apaologize. People whom are in pain or in contact with their own vulnerability is certainly never boring. I hope you`ll let us be here and support you, in the very limited- way that is possible on a cyber- forum. I am sure i`ll be fan of this LL
(i allready AM)
quote:Reading on forum what’s happening with others and their Ts I get the impression that therapy can be like this - seeing T as good one session and the next session needing to wear garlic and carry a cross.
I'm so sorry, but LL, this is really funny. You crack me up sometimes!
I'm glad to hear that your T has remained steady, and that you are sticking with all of this. I agree, that the sense that he is on your side is a very good "voice" to listen to. And you will never, ever be boring to us, LL...far from it...hope this is ok, take care,
BB
Hi LL,
I'm glad that you've decided to stick with this T, so long as you feel like he's on your side and wants to help you. Yes, the dark, awful feelings are a huge part of the therapy, and frankly...it sucks! Everything that gets dug up really does make things worse and brings out pain that is either entirely new or pain that we've simply buried and forgotten about. I'm finding lately that even when I leave a session feeling like I want to crawl into a hole and die, those are some of my best sessions, because more often than not it means that something significant happened in the room that day and it built on the trust I am learning to have in my T.
Thank you for keeping us updated with you, LL...I'm so glad that you seem to have found a T that is worth sticking with.
Many hugs,
Kashley
I'm glad that you've decided to stick with this T, so long as you feel like he's on your side and wants to help you. Yes, the dark, awful feelings are a huge part of the therapy, and frankly...it sucks! Everything that gets dug up really does make things worse and brings out pain that is either entirely new or pain that we've simply buried and forgotten about. I'm finding lately that even when I leave a session feeling like I want to crawl into a hole and die, those are some of my best sessions, because more often than not it means that something significant happened in the room that day and it built on the trust I am learning to have in my T.
Thank you for keeping us updated with you, LL...I'm so glad that you seem to have found a T that is worth sticking with.
Many hugs,
Kashley
I think a lot of the puzzling u turns that take place from our therapist, is cos they go to supervision and are helped to see things in a different way, so change the way they respond.
Lampers
Sorry late again ...life would be so much easier if work wasn't in the equation, then I could really keep up!!
Hilarious....oh gosh, that really describes beautifully your recent ups and downs, maybe keep a bulb ot two in your handbag just in case
But it's good that despite all of those ups and downs, you feel that here is something about this guy that makes him worth hanging around with for longer. I think that constancy would be in my top 3 qualities in a T, and if he has been that for tyou, well that's a good thing.
And maybe the blackness and dfficult stuff to...maybe that's you facing some of the core issues that you have not felt safe enough to before. Often after some of my most productive sessions I feel the worst for a while, but then I look back and see progress. Safe sessions of me not going to any hard places, might feel pleasant at the time and leave me in a better place - but in the long run don't seem to move me onwards....and then the frustration kicks in.
So I think the wanting to quit feeling is quite normal - goodness knows how many times I've told T I can't do this any more...fortunately she accepts that this is all part of my inner battle, that it has little to do with her and nearly everything to do with me...and (oh so predictably) I always come round and carry on, and that is when the real progress happens. I hope it might be the same for you LL.
Hugs
starfishy
Sorry late again ...life would be so much easier if work wasn't in the equation, then I could really keep up!!
quote:I get the impression that therapy can be like this - seeing T as good one session and the next session needing to wear garlic and carry a cross
Hilarious....oh gosh, that really describes beautifully your recent ups and downs, maybe keep a bulb ot two in your handbag just in case
But it's good that despite all of those ups and downs, you feel that here is something about this guy that makes him worth hanging around with for longer. I think that constancy would be in my top 3 qualities in a T, and if he has been that for tyou, well that's a good thing.
And maybe the blackness and dfficult stuff to...maybe that's you facing some of the core issues that you have not felt safe enough to before. Often after some of my most productive sessions I feel the worst for a while, but then I look back and see progress. Safe sessions of me not going to any hard places, might feel pleasant at the time and leave me in a better place - but in the long run don't seem to move me onwards....and then the frustration kicks in.
So I think the wanting to quit feeling is quite normal - goodness knows how many times I've told T I can't do this any more...fortunately she accepts that this is all part of my inner battle, that it has little to do with her and nearly everything to do with me...and (oh so predictably) I always come round and carry on, and that is when the real progress happens. I hope it might be the same for you LL.
Hugs
starfishy