Hi Jillann... I'm not sure what to say to you about this. I am terribly sorry that you are in such pain and I'm glad you turned here for support. I don't really understand the motive behind what your T is doing. I am sorry that you are feeling punished by her. I would feel the same way. Losing personal therapy at a time when you need the extra support after dealing with couples therapy, group and a nutritionist seems pretty harsh to me. I don't see how depriving you of what you need (an attachment relationship) is going to help you to feel less hurt and deprived. If you knew how to reach out in real life for intimacy that you need and yearn for then you wouldn't be needing it from her in the first place. So taking this away from you is not going to magically solve the yearning. My feeling is that it's your inner kid who is craving the nurturing of intimacy that went missing in childhood. That is why you need an attachment figure who is stable and consistent and who is fearless in the face of any of your issues.

The important thing to remember is that you are not bad, or ugly or too damaged. Whatever your T is doing or thinking is HER issue not yours at all. You are honest and open and doing your best. Your T needs to step up. I don't want to alarm you because I know first hand how terrible and frightening it feels to have a T act punitive but maybe you should continue couples with her and then find another T to help you process what you are doing in your other therapies. Someone with good trauma and attachment background. At least maybe you could do a consult to sort things out.

Sending you hugs.
TN

quote:

She wants away from me and this is her way of getting that without breaking her promise to stick with me.

Honestly, I don't see that at all. To me it seems more like she is afraid of what could happen to you, and is doing what she thinks is best to help you, even if she has the wrong idea.

Hopefully you can talk to her about how you feel about this and you can come up with a plan together. I am sorry this is so painful right now

((Jill)) I don't know what to say right now other than I am here.

I would be confused and hurt too. Maybe T is scared? It may be what she feels is best for the ED rather than other stuff? I know in my ED therapy the family and support system are pushed to be worked on and considered a very high priority. Has she explained it using any reference to ED stuff at all? It would be so hard to hear it pushed back on the attachment stuff instead of talking about things for you more holistically.

Jillian, So sorry for what you are going through. I think your T may not know how to "handle" you and may not want to admit it. You obviously are in serious pain and, in my opinion, a responsible T would approach this in a much more "theraputic" way. Every other week is not enough for you....that just struck me as a bit cruel. I would try to reach out to someone who has more compassion and or experience. I hope what I said here does not offend you. I understand your pain and I hope you feel better soon.

(((Jill))) You are in a very difficult position. I think I would be feeling a lot of the same things that you are. When you live with a constant fear of abandonment, any perception of your T moving further away can feel so threatening.

I do agree with BLT, that your T is honestly trying to do what is best for you, I am just not sure if she is right.

My husband and I went to marital therapy together to what was his T. A year or so after we both started working with him, I ended up seeing him individually also. It was indispensible to my couples' counseling that I had somewhere to deal with and process the stuff that got kicked up in couples' sessions. But we were only going to couples sessions every other week and then every three weeks so I went for a session alone any week we didn't go as a couple. But my T also allows outside contact, so I could check in with him anytime. A therapist can not focus on you or help contain you the same way in a couples' session that they can when your alone (obviously because there is more than one client in the room). So based on my experience, I do not think you are mistaken in wanting to have more personal support.

I didn't realize it at the time, but looking back, in the early couples' sessions, my husband got hit pretty hard. And I think it was because our T knew I didn't have the ego strength to face any of my own faults yet. He waited until I had been affirmed and validated in some of my stuff and built up some trust in him, before we started honing in on what I brought to the party (which turned out to be plenty ) so I very much resonate to you saying that it doesn't feel like you have the strength to face marital counseling without doing your own work first.

How long has your T been working? and do you know what her primary modality is? I agree with TN that it sounds like she is seeing your attachment needs as a pathological dependency. It made me think of one of my favorite passages from General Theory of Love:

quote:

Some therapists recoil from the pivotal power of relatedness. They have been told to deliver insight--a job description evocative of estate planning or financial consulting, the calm dispensation of tidy data packets from the other side of an imposing desk. A therapist who fears dependence will tell his patient, sometimes openly, that the urge to rely is pathologic. In doing so he denigrates a cardinal tool. A parent who rejects a child's desire to depend raises a fragile person. Those children, grown to adulthood, are frequently among those who come for help. Shall we tell them again that no one can find an arm to lean on, that each alone must work to ease a private sorrow? Then we shall repeat an experiment already conducted; many know its result only too well. If patient and therapist are to proceed together down a curative path, they must allow limbic regulation and its companion moon, dependence, to make their revolutionary magic.

SO... I am not sure what the answer is here, but I think you have every right to discuss these feelings and advocate for what you need. Would you consider trying to find another therapist, preferably one with experience with long-term trauma and just use your present T for couples work?



AG

(((JILLANN))) I'm truly sorry for the pain that you are dealing with. I really would like to think your T is focused on your needs, but I'm confused by her saying "what she is good at is couples therapy". Its not about her, its about you. If she can't handle anything but couples therapy, she needed to be honest about it a whole lot earlier, and she should have helped direct you to another T to help with your personal therapy, and not leave you empty handed. Her promise of sticking with you has a lot of holes in it, and I'm sorry that you are suffering the consequences. I think True North's advice about finding a T that works with trauma and attachment background is great advice. Wishing you the best...

Hi, Jillann,

Not sure how qualified I am to speak on this subject, seeing as I'm currently throwing a massive hissy over not getting a handshake from my T , but just wanted to add...

Giving your T the benefit of the doubt, she may really be trying to help you in the best way the knows how. Attachment issues get tricky because, at some point, we're supposed to become healthy enough to detach from the T and form good relationships with other people. My T accepts my attachment to him, but he is also forever encouraging me to connect more with other supportive people in my life. As he has told me on a couple of occasions, "I support you, but I can't be your entire support system."

It's possible that your T has identified something that you are needing that she cannot provide in any context, no matter how much she may want to. That would explain why she is choosing to focus on the marriage counseling. It may be that she's trying to connect your need to its ultimate source of provision.

That said, I will admit that the situation sounds unusual to me. For starters, I hear it's pretty rare for a T to agree to perform marital counseling for a long-time individual client. I know my T wouldn't. It also bothers me that she's not really discussing her reasons with you. She should make it clear why she's doing this and give absolutely GOOD reasons. And if those reasons are not acceptable to you, you should say so and work to reach an alternative. Maybe ask if someone else can do the marital counseling while you continue individual therapy with her.

But if she's not willing to continue with individual therapy, then you shouldn't try to stay. You deserve a T who enthusiastically accepts your love and pursues your healing.

Hang in there. With big hugs from me.

Same from me, Jillan. I really feel for you and hope that the situation improves somehow.

Thank you all for your responses. I can't really handle individual responses just yet. I have been reading them and trying to take them in. I alteranate bouts of crying and upset with strange calm that I can chose to leave this relationship if I decide it is not working for me. I have allowed myself to become so attached but I do have the choice.

I emailed her yesterday expressing my sadness and confusion and desire to keep individual therapy. She still is dancing around the question of what is going on. Here is an excerpt from her response to me.

"I am really glad you have found therapy with me to be the place you can be honest and share your feelings and I would not want that to change for you. I said yesterday that I was not suggesting the absolute end of your one on one sessions but that I feel I am doing my job for you best by helping you with your marriage and learning to trust other people in your life outside of me. "

She went on to say she would not be pushing me to do this is she didn't think I was capable of it. I don't want to just focus on my marriage in therapy but if I want to stay in therapy with her I don't get a choice in that. I am absolutely convinced there is something going on with her not being comfortable with me anymore but she won't say that to me. She gave me some therapy speak "I seem to remember that you assessed pretty quick in our relationship that I am GOOD at being blunt, therefore if I have a frustration with you I will tell you, if you don't hear one from me you can assume I don't have one."

Hubby and I see her Tuesday afternoon. I'm not feeling really motivated or into it right now. Then next Tuesday I will have an individual session again. Next week I have a regular medication check with Pdoc. I am planning to ask him is he can help me understand what is going on. He is her supervisor. I hope he can help me understand this more.

Thanks everyone for the hugs. They mean the world to me.

Jillann

Hey Jillian, I think talking to Pdoc about your concern is an excellent idea; he probably knows her quite well. For me, I would do it the sooner the better instead of suffering through this. Also, I think being "blunt" is different than being "direct". Your T doesn't seem direct. Especially, if you are left feeling such despair....just doesn't seem right to let someone walk off and let them feel the intensity you are experiencing. Of course, these are just my thoughts. I do agree you should have the say to stay in therapy; that is so important. Listen to your instincts. I hope you feel better soon.

Hi Jillann...

I understand those shifting feelings you are experiencing and under the circumstances they are very normal. Before I respond further I would like to ask... how long have you been with this T? How much does she understand attachment and trauma? What is her modality and how long is she in practice?

I think it's a great idea to speak with your P about what is happening. I'm glad you have that additional support.

Many hugs
TN

Hi TN,

I have been with her for 1 year. She has been in practice at least 16 or so years. She is a specialist in Imago relationship therapy and sees alot of couples. I know she feels very effective as a couples counselor. Very early on she began suggesting that I would eventually need to bring DH in for couples sessions. She really believes it is dangerous to only treat one half of a couple. She says the one person will outgrow the other. She was recommended to me by a psychiatrist that I saw many years ago. In our first meeting I asked if she worked with eating disorder clients and if she was comfortable with this. She said yes absolutely and told me about some other clients( nothing identifying anyone) but cases she has had. A few weeks in I was asking her if it was appropriate for me to be in therapy with her and she reassured me that yes. She said, "people with eating disorders come to therapy, people with teenagers come to therapy, people dealing with losing parents to Alzheimer's come to therapy, people dealing with family memebers with drug addiction come to therapy. Yes me coming to therapy with her was very appropriate."

I do believe she thinks this is what is best for me. I am however troubled by my lack of input into what is best. My brother (the drug user) was released from jail on Tuesday. He called to speak to my nieces today. Their mom called to warn me that he is planning to call me. I have no clue how I feel about him or what he has done to me and my family and my mom. He even told my former sister in law that he was going to come try to visit my mom in a few months. I need individual therapy to help understand what I feel and want with respect to all this.

Thanks for the reply Veryhopeful. I do hope Pdoc can shed some light on this for me.

Jillann

Well two weeks time helps hurt feelings receed.

Talking to Pdoc was of no help. He just said she is not there to be your friend and if I feel like I still need therapy I should just go somewhere else. I was wanting to understand why she is doing this.

We had a couples session the first week. That went OK. I'm not really comfortable in the couples sessions because she knows things about me that I have no intention of talking about with my husband. She is always pressing for me to say more and I don't really want to. I understand the concept of being vulnerable to get greater intimacy but I don't feel safe doing it. The only reason I was able to be vulnerable and open with her was because I was paying her and I trusted her. I'm not so sure now.

I had an idividual session today. I think she was expecting me to talk about the change but I did not want to. I have two sides to me. My rational thinking side. (She says that I live far too much in my cognitive brain. She keeps telling me I'm not going to be able to think my way out of my problems.) That side of me can see that she feels like I have not responded to her therapeutic treatment and she is trying to get me to try other things to make progress. Today she was quizzing me about the DBT group and asking if I was planning to stick with it. She also suggested that to really shift my thinking I'm going to need to do something intensive. She thought the hospital would do that but they didn't. She suggested doing some sessions or EMDR or gestalt sessions with someone that she sometimes consults with. Her insisting on just doing couples therapy right now is her wanting to do what she is good at and what she feels she can make the most impact in my life with. It feels very risky to me. I love my husband and we have a very stable marriage. Just not a very intimate one.

The feeling side of me wants to interpret this all as I am too damaged and she doesn't like spending time alone with me and wants to get away from me and...........all sorts of negative messages. I don't understand why she won't just come out and say what is really going on. All she will say is that this is what she feels is best and this is how she can help me. Is there some therapy rule about saying you are too much for me and I need you to go somewhere else. It feels like so much rejection and her proposal of couples work feels so risky.

I have alot to think about.

Jillann

Hi Jillan,

This is complex and I know those feelings of hurt and rejection are very powerful. I feel for you. I just want to respond on the couples stuff, as I've had more than one therapist push me to doing most of the work in couples rather than individual therapy. I'm not sure why this is - if it's because they thought the relationship was the greatest problem or the greatest resource or both.

Some very powerful things have come of it though. My husband, for all his issues (he has issues) is actually a very stable attachment figure, and as I've learned to be that too he's got even better. Now our greatest intimacy is shared with each other. That feels very safe and very permanent. It's possible that your t is looking at the strengths in the marriage and thinking it could be a real place of care, safe intimacy and security for you. Maybe?

((Jones)) Thank you so much for responding. I was feeling a little left out here.

I am finding my reaction to this change evolving. I'm not sure if it is a good thing or not. I was initially so overwhelmed with hurt feelings that I could not see any positive in this. I still have very hurt feelings and feel like she is abandoning me. But....

I do truly believe that she wants very much to help me. She is truly concerned for my health. I have shared in session with her how lonely I often feel and how little DH and I really communicate. I spent 3 weeks away at an IOP program for eating disorders and he never asked anything about what I was doing. Never spoke to the Dr's or found out anything about the treatment. I tried to talk to him about it but it seemed like he really didn't want to know. I think that floored her. By focusing on the marriage she feels she can make more progress. I think she feels very frustrated that I have not made more progress on the eating disorder behaviors. Her therapy has not been effective on changing those behaviors so she is pushing me to try other methods and trying to help with my support at home.

DH and I do truly love each other and are committed to our marriage. There is no infidelity or anything like that. We are just both very introverted avoidant type people. When T tries to get me to share things with him in therapy I'm usuallly like "why?" Why would you want to tell your husband that. It might make him not like you. It makes you vulnerable. She will roll her eyes and say yes and that is why you do it. It is truly a foriegn concept to me to make myself vulnerable to someone. I could do it with her because I believed that because I was paying her she wouldn't break my confidence and I know I can leave therapy whenever I want. Marriage is much different than that

So I am still sad at losing individual therapy for now, I'm trying to have some hope that marriage therapy will be helpful. I'm trying to see T not as being punitive but as doing what she thinks will help me the most right now.

Thanks for the hope that it really can be helpful. Did you go to your personal therapis for the couples work or to a different therapist. I do have alot of fear or her trying to force me to share things that she knows about me that I have no intention of sharing with DH.

Jillann

Hi Jillann,

It makes a lot of sense that you are sad about losing your individual therapy - especially if that was the only place where you felt it was okay to take a risk. I hope your T and your husband will work with you to help you get to a place where it doesn't feel too scary any more.

We tried a few different couples arrangements. We tried seeing both my husbands' and my therapists together for co-therapy. That didn't work very well, because although they suggested it (they were colleagues) they didn't get along very well! In the end we ended up with someone new that neither of us saw individually and that was much better. She made it very clear that there was to be no individual communication with her, except for one individual session each at the beginning. But I know different people end up having success with different situations. Is there a way to communicate with her or both her and your husband that you're scared you won't be able to pace your own information-sharing?

I hope you get well supported, whatever happens, Jillann. Intimacy is scary but often it heals our deepest wounds and meets our deepest wishes.

Jones thanks for responding. I do wonder if I would feel any more at ease if we saw someone new for both of us. T has remarked that DH is much more comfortable in session than I am. I don't think she gets how frightened I am by what she might say or do. She knows my weak spots, my secrets, and my fears. She doesn't know those things for DH so what does he have to be uncomfortable about!

I'm trying to keep myself from quitting and giving up before really beginning. I really do think that I am incapable of the level of intimacy that she thinks I should be able to handle. "Intimacy is scary but often it heals our deepest wounds and meets our deepest wishes." I hope your right Jones. I really hope so. T wants me to see this as exciting and a chance to grow. It feels so dangerous to be messing with a marriage that has been stable for nearly 20 years. Maybe not the most emotionally intimate but extremely stable. You've given me hope. Thanks

SP thanks for the response. I understand reading and not responding. I get into those modes myself from time to time. Or I read threads and just don't feel like I have anything to add to them. Its ok. I was just feeling scared and alone and looking for some support from folks that have done couples work. Thanks for reaching out to me.

Jillann

It would be a huge transition to make, for sure - just the fact of T being in the room with you and H at the same time would feel scary, given how well she knows you. Your fear is an important part of this process and I hope you can find a way to get support with it. It's normal to want to make your own choices about what to share and when - do you think you could express some of your concern about this to T?

I was thinking, stability can sometime be a bit of a illusion if one or both partners are taking the hurts and conflicts of a relationship inside themselves and 'eating' them alone. I used to do this because I felt our relationship couldn't cope with my truth. That changed as we learned how to get through the conflicts in a way that worked for us.

Because relationships do have ups and downs, pains, conflicts, breaches and repairs. If you go further in couples work you will very likely bump into some of these and it will hurt and be scary and disorienting. But that's just the beginning part of learning to deal with these things together instead of alone. And once you've gone a bit further you may discover that you truly do have a partner in life - your real life.