TN, I am sorry because I can see you are in a really tough place with this. I agree your T may be pushing you too hard and not doing enough to be supportive.

Having said that, I feel a little jealous. I know I need to do inner child work myself and my T has not helped with it in the slightest or even suggested it. I wish she would. I feel like I have to do it all by myself instead.

I actually agree with everything your T was saying. The way to getting better is to stop hating your EP and start learning how to talk to and take care of it. It's not full of crap, it's well-documented psychological wisdom. Having said that, it seems like he needs to help you with it more instead of just telling you what to do. You're telling him you can't do it, and instead of walking you through the process in baby steps he's just saying "do it anyway."

Maybe you can ask him if he can explain it better or break it down into smaller bits or support you more with it or...?

BLT... maybe your T feels it's too soon in the relationship to be starting this kind of work with you. I'm with my T for 20 months now and I see him twice per week.

Maybe that's a good idea... to go more slowly and ask him to break this down into smaller steps. Maybe I just feel like I'm not getting his support in this aside from him just telling me to do it... like it's so damn easy...

Thanks BLT...I'm just in a dark place tonight.
TN

I know that this is different from my issue, but I was really unable to show compassion to little, hurting, attachment-damaged parts of me before T kind of modeled it for me. He has a tendency (I don't know if your T does this too?) to respond very positively about them, their needs, their feelings in the midst of my disparaging and hating what it's like to have to experience all of that.

Also, the extremity of my dissociation can help, because it is a lot easier to be kind when these parts feel very not me than it is when I am concentrating on the fact that we're parts of the same person.

Another (related) way T helps me when I get very negative on them (or they get negative on themselves) is to talk about Boo and for me to imagine feeling that way toward her (either the way I feel toward my parts or the way they fear he feels about them). Could you maybe imagine little TN being like your son. I'm sure you would never disparage him needing his mom or dad. If somebody hurt him badly, you would never think that it was his fault for not seeing it coming or for needing too much or any such thing. I am just throwing out some generic things and don't know if they apply. If T has me imagine any other child (real or pretend), I can have compassion.

T never asked me to talk to those little parts of me, though, even before the DID diagnosis, when he was talking more from an inner child place like you are. I did find when things got very disruptive, like huge crisis level, instinctively, I would talk to myself (or those parts of me throwing up those emotions) even when I didn't understand what the hell dissociation was and telling them very basic stuff, like "It's OK. You're OK." It was very awkward and also, yes, did make me feel kind of sick, because being in touch with them voluntarily is like OUCH!!! But...it kept one of them from doing a very, very bad thing at least once.

I can't really do the out loud talking thing very easily except if it is really crisis level and I have tried anything else. It's like, "Hey, take off your shoes and walk on this broken glass," to voluntarily go into that stuff and I just don't feel safe being in that much pain without T or someone else around. But, I have found that just writing out everything they feel and the more protective, detached parts of me feel in response has been really helpful. Even to have those feelings slightly acknowledged, or brought into the light is what my T would call it, increases connectedness and seems to soothe them as long as I don't push too fast/hard. Sharing them with T, even if I can't get to the point of talking much about them other than to say, "I hate that they feel this way about you and I really can't talk about it right now," does seem to make a difference.

Last, it does seem like your T is pushing a little hard. T will do that with me on certain things I tell him I just "can't" do. Like, resting, relaxing, waiting, trusting God, not trying to control everything, not trying to figure out everything all at once, not making judging the kids and their stuff be my job...those are the huge ones he asks of me and I just want to throw up the middle finger. I think my way in during those scenarios is just to discuss what it feels like to not be able to do what I'm being asked, what it feels like to be asked it at all, what about it is scary, hard, what emotions and sensations it brings up for me...if you can get at it, what sort of feelings it brings up for little TN too. When something is too big for me, too much, too fast, the best thing I know how to do is to fully explore all the aspects that are making it overwhelming. Sometimes, my T is able to walk me through (over/around) those obstacles one by one until I can approach the outskirts of trying something, try it, run like hell, see that the world didn't fall apart, see which aspects were positive and go back and make an even better try of it using what I learned.

I'm sorry if that's not at all helpful, but because my T was doing a bit of inner child stuff with me last year and I had a very similar reaction to yours, I thought I'd try to share...



Edit to say YES it is maddening when they tell us to do something like it is just so simple, something that might be simple for someone who had learned it when they were supposed to, but we just can't do it. The first 50 times my T told me to relax, "I can't," was promptly followed by him saying, "Yes you can," and then me saying, "Then, HOW?!?!?!?! Because I don't get it!"

TN,
if my T asked me to do that, I'd probably get a serious case of the giggles. (Is that the inner child coming out??)
Actually even the phrase "inner child" kind of causes me chuckle. I don't know why

What I totally don't get with his methodology is why pushing you right before a trip is a good idea??? Wouldn't it be a better time to be grounded, and foster a sense of connection that will outlast the separation??

I wish you luck on the trip... In spite of the painful family stuff, I hope it's somewhere fun, at least?

Thank you Yaku. You are always helpful. I'm just SO tired now I'm off to bed. I'll try to write more tomorrow. I did want to say though that he HAS asked me to think of this in terms of my son. How I would react to him and what I would say to him if he needed something. But that's easy because he's good and sweet and I love him. Little TN is not. At least I don't see her that way.

effed...thank you for responding. I think this all unsettled me a lot right now because I am facing this trip and being away from T. And two weeks before I leave he is going away on HIS vacation for a week. So we will have a few days when he gets back to get me grounded enough to survive this trip. and yeah... it's to someplace that is beautiful and that people dream of going. Don't feel up to sharing more right now.

TN

I guess, I mean more...even if your son was not good and sweet (or knowing kids, WHEN he is not good and sweet), you love him deeply. You might get angry or frustrated or any number of other things, but you would never feel like he wasn't worth it or was too much or unlovable in any way. The fact that you feel all those things about little TN is because someone else thought, felt, expressed or at the very least seemed to first, a long time ago. The reason she can feel like too much (I wouldn't be surprised if she fears this herself and not just you) is because someone else taught you she was. Now, it's hard for me, with my own little parts, to have compassion. But, when I think that someone in your life, who was supposed to love you the way you love your son, did that to you, I'm f---ing livid. That's sick and it's not something at all that was or is wrong with her/you. I know it's hard to let her be OK, acceptable, but she is. It's times like these I wish your T was better at the empathy stuff, because if you could feel his being OK with her, caring for her, better, it might be a little easier to risk being OK with her yourself, at least in the context of therapy. Sorry, not trying to overload you, but just hate to see how you got hurt continuing into today. It makes me so sad and makes me want to give that little girl a big, safe, mommy hug. Hope that's not too weird. I just imagine that little girl and I want her to not have to hurt all alone anymore.

What is it with you and I TN - The same thing is happening in my part of the world. Except I have chucked a fit and have cancelled my next session and never going back.

T brought this up with me this week also. I look at her if she is the Effing crazy one. I said to her I have no connection whatsoever with me in a photo, me as a child NOR the inner child person/thing inside me. I can actually visualise my parts and there is a child. I am supposed to talk to this child and ask the adult what I need. WTF? I also feel nauseous when she talks about this. So T backtracks and says to get a photo (which I don't have) and to talk to the photo. WTF? I told her there is no point in me trying this if I feel there is no connection - because it is just an exercise in detachment for me.

If I don't feel anything and it is a foreign concept for me - it is pointless.

I backed myself into a corner over this, have cancelled and in a really bad place. Don't do what I have done TN.
Somedays.

Hi True North,
I have been lurking on the forums for a while but your post resonated with me so much that I had to register and reply...
I am currently exploring the whole inner child issue in therapy. My T recommended reading Homecoming by John Bradshaw and I duly devoured the book in no time. I totally understood the theory as he explained it about the wounded inner children inside us who affect our behaviour and thoughts as adults. I identified with the behaviour patterns he described and realised that reclaiming my inner child/ren was probably something essential for me to do to move forward. BUT (and it is a huge but) the way that he suggests you do this involves meditating on the stages of your life (babyhood, toddler, school age, adolescent etc) and then "rescuing" and reassuring your inner child that you, as the adult, love them, will be there for them and then there is a series of affirmations to say to your child at each age. You also write letters to your inner child from 'big you' and then using your non-dominant hand write back as 'little you' to 'big you'

Basically I found the whole thing highly cringey, deeply embarrassing and totally impossible to do. Personally, when I am resisting something it normally means I do need to 'go there' but I feel unable to do it. Have explored my resistance to doing this work with my T and for me it basically boils down to exactly what you said...I hate little me, I want her just to get lost and go away and never even have existed. My T thinks that this is how I probably felt as a baby and that is why it is so important I integrate the feelings and love the little me that maybe felt so unloved. (I struggle with this as I had a normal-ish childhood, with loving parents who I don't think did anything intentionally to hurt or wound me, so I have huge guilt about thinking anything negative about my parents or upbringing.) However the book has a questionairre for each stage of childhood that has a series of statements about your thoughts or behaviour now and the more you identify with, the more likely that that was the point that 'wounding' occurred and now needs healing. The one that I answer the most 'yeses' to is the babyhood stage. But the idea of the meditation and the affirmations and the letter writing is just so cringey I can't bring myself to do it.

My T has not pressured me to do these exercises, and I feel for you if you are feeling under pressure to do this work, but I will say in the past month since I have been reading about inner child theory, I am gradually getting more open to the idea that there is a little me and I am opening myself to the possibility of listening to that part of myself and stop trying to cut that part of me off. I feel more aware now that there is this chaotic, needy, messy, rage-filled, teeming mass of emotion in me, and frankly it scares the crap out of me. It disgusts me and makes me feel nauseous to think about it. My T encourages me to stay with the feelings and not fend them off or suppress them and that is also a horribly scary thing for me to do and it is so incredibly painful and I feel so vulnerable, it is hard to do that and not just shove the lid back on the box and sit on it to protect myself from all this emotion. I don't even have the words to describe what I am feeling, which if it is coming from a pre-verbal place, maybe makes sense?

I have recently discovered Robert Burney and his writings about co-dependence and inner child work (I also realised through therapy that I am co-dependent, although I couldn't really figure out where that came from as I didn't have alcoholic parents or anything) but through reading Robert Burney's stuff on his website (www.Joy2MeU.com) I've learned that co-dependency goes hand in hand with wounded inner child stuff so hopefully if I can bring myself to do the inner child work it will alter the co-dependent behaviour and thoughts. Burney suggests that we need to do 'grief work' and slowly start making conscious the messages we took on board as children that are now hindering our enjoyment of life now. I am waiting for his second book to be delivered, which I think describes ways we can start to do that. I really like the way Robert Burney writes, much more so than John Bradshaw. Burney comes at it from a more spiritual place and that resonates with me more than Bradshaw.

So I have waffled on at great length about myself and I have no idea if any of that is useful to you or not and I apologise for hijacking your thread to go on about me. What I wanted to say to you is I wonder if it would be helpful to you to do some reading around the inner child stuff (googling it brings up tons of info, as a place to start) and maybe gradually start opening yourself to the possibility that there is a very precious little you that needs acceptance, nurturing, love and to be listened to. (I totally believe that about you, but really struggle to believe it about me, so I do get where you are coming from with the anger you expressed about the whole idea). I would say that I have found the past month to be one of the most painful periods since starting therapy a year ago, and if you are coming up to a break and going into a tough family situation, where it sounds like you may need all your defences to protect yourself and keep you safe, then maybe there isn't the time to do this work immediately. From what I've read it seems to be a long, gradual, painful journey, but it is totally worth doing, ultimately!!

I think that you can trust yourself to know if inner child work is something that you need to do and when you need to do it, and if the time is not right, then it is OK to not go there. You know what is best for you and what you need and you can trust that. I'm a great believer in knowledge is power and that is why immersing myself in gathering as much info as I can about inner child work, after my T brought it up, made me feel safer and more in control, but that might not be the same for you, so I would say go with your instincts and if this is what you need to do, you will do it when you are ready and in your own time!

Stay safe and take care of precious you!

Searching, Hi and welcome. I really appreciate that you registered and also really appreciate your comments about the inner child work.

I attended a course about 15 years ago based on John Bradshaws work and I found it to be very confronting, I bought the books, did the course and then left it at that. I am not sure whether I will ever be ready to tackle it.

Thanks again for your great post and I hope you stay around for a long time.
Somedays

Thank you somedays!
I know what you mean about John Bradshaw....he plain scared me and made me angry. I think I may have been willing to try the meditation and affirmation thing if I could do it with my T actually holding me and keeping me safe as he describes in the book, but I've been to scared to ask if she would do that or if boundaries means she can't. I think the answer will be no and it is far too scary still to try alone at the moment, even if I could get past the cringe factor!!

I hope you are able to do what is ultimately the best thing for you with your T. If quitting isn't the best option, I hope you feel able to return and talk it through and your T can go at your pace. You have all the time you need and the right to choose where you go and what's off limits for now! You also have the right to change your mind ;-)

go gently and take care

Yaku-Searching (welcome), BG, and SD... thank you all SO much. I can't write much now because of where I am (physically) so I will come back to this. You have all been so helpful and kind. Just wanted you all to know I'm reading and am thankful for you all.

TN

(((((TN)))))

My T doesn't talk about my inner child but I do recognize these emotional parts I have that I have hated and try to disown. One of the biggest parts I've hated are my dependency needs. I was beating myself up for having dependency needs because I was beat up as a child for having dependency needs. But now we know that dependency is normal and essential if we are going to move into being an independent or interdependent human being.

My suggestion would be to try writing it out. Why will the trip be disastrous? Just go there with your thoughts. And then maybe you will see what that EP is afraid of.

I had another part of me that I hated for so long because of how I was framing my behavior based on the feedback that I got from a "friend" as a child. But when I looked at what I was really doing and how I was really feeling, I realized that I just wanted this person to care about me, to love me and then I didn't hate that part of me anymore. And I realized actually that this person who gave me this feedback was just not a nice person.

I don't know if that helps but I have found it helps me a lot. When I feel ashamed about something I've done, that's usually a signal that I need to examine it and usually I find that I'm not as despicable as I think I am.

Good luck. When do you leave for your trip and for how long? Will you be able to have email contact with your T when you are there?



Liese

quote:

So I yelled at him that he keeps telling me I have to take care of this part which I will call EP for my emotional personality (as opposed to my ANP... apparently normal personality) but I don't know how to do that and he said to talk to the EP and I looked at him like he's crazy. So you want me to sit around and talk to myself? That is just nuts. And I don't believe it will do any good either.

Hi TN,

I've done a lot of playing around with the sorts of internal dialogue your T is probably talking about here. I started this long before I even began therapy, and I kind of did it on the initiative of a sub-personality that kept talking to me, uninvited. It freaked me out at first but I told a friend (a psych major) about it and she suggested that I simply try talking back. So next time she started nagging at me I somewhat sheepishly asked her a question about herself (I did this in my head, btw) and practically the next thing I knew I was embroiled in all these long, deep conversations and arguments with this "part" (if you want to call her that, I don't really know what she is). She apparently had (and has!) a lot to say.

Definitely a strange experience. My friend recommended the following book: http://www.amazon.com/Internal...id=1336756533&sr=8-1

and after I read it I felt more okay with that kind of internal dialogue. The book was both illuminating and normalizing for me. It helped to have more of a theoretical structure in place for understanding and practicing those kinds of conversations with myself.

T knows about all of this, and sometime we talk about it but it's not a main focus in my therapy, or it hasn't been so far. It's more something I do on my own and occasionally tell T about. I think it might be interesting, potentially useful, and healing to have her talk to a "part" directly, but I'm not sure how she'd feel about that. I will ask her someday. . .

Anyhow, that is simply my experience with this kind of thing for what it's worth. I do think Robert Schwartz's book is very good and worth reading. I don't know if you would find it useful or not, but you might like reading it if you ever get a chance.

All the best,
HIC (who is trying not to be jealous of this trip you are probably taking to her favorite place on the planet. :P)

Monte.. thank you. That was very helpful and a good description of how I'm feeling.

Liese...thanks for your support and for sharing.

Hic... thanks for the links and the information and sharing your experiences.

I paged my T this morning. He called back but couldn't talk and asked me to page him again after a certain time.

I couldn't do it because I felt that I did something bad by bothering him t his morning and I was feeling overwhelmed. So I was sitting here trying to page him w hen he called me back

It was a very unhelpful call and that is not the usual. He is usually really good on the phone so I think now he is mad at me because I didn't call or that I did call or because I told him I can't do what he asked me to do and I don't even know how to do it and I tried to tell him how it was making me feel. I told him that this will open up too much stuff and then we both go on vacation and I'm left on vacation with no defenses and everything hanging out there when I need to be composed and contained. He only said "ok, fair enough". He AS USUAL had no empathy.

He just said that this is an important part we have to work on and I said I can't and he said I can I just dont' want to. And I told him that it makes me sick and I want to throw up if I even think of doing what he asked me to do and now I feel like a failure and I'm just being difficult and uncooperative when I just can't do it. He listened and then at that moment my STUPID boss came back from lunch and began banging on my office window and making faces at me because I was on my cell phone for a freaking 3 minutes.

It was a total waste of a call because I lost the ability to speak and all my T said was to not work on talkign to myself this weekend and he would help me more iwth this on Monday.

I don't even want to go back to see him on Monday or ever....

He told me to call if I need him. Yeah right. Thanks.

TN

TN - I cross posted with you so did not see your update my sweet, very sorry. I'm very very sorry your call did not go well it's really hard to feel like they care sometimes.... many times. Thinking of you.

TN,

Oh gosh... my T has me do this *all the time*. If I'm in any sort of emotional distress I can guarantee you my T will talk about me being there for 'the kid' (whichever one of the several I have lurking around in there). Just like T2 will talk about my body and experiencing that my T1 is all over my inner kid. She has more of their votes than I do. My T will say 'the kid is driving the bus' which is I guess what your T means when your EP is sort of running the show.

She makes me go help my inner kids, or has me think of something to help them. T2 has run me through a visualization w/ one in a particular situation. If there is an inner child even remotely present she does NOT go unnoticed for even a second... sometimes unmentioned... but always noted. My Ts push it like a street drug.

So I do understand very much about what you're saying about not wanting to connect with or integrate w/ your inner child. I think most people hate our inner children... I have some who hate me back who when I explore them we mutually want to demolish each other. My T had me do some 'screen' work with that (imagine we're in a theatre watching this part) and I told her I can't be in 3 places at once; I can't be that part, be the adult me in the "movie" killing that part and being me sitting in the "audience" because I want to kill both of them.

A lot of good 'kid' work can come from doing art... I think sitting on the floor w/ your T too has helped her 'come out' more. It is easy to feel abandoned by our Ts when they stick us w/ caring for ourselves and it does seem crazy to talk to yourself I have one inner kid part that loves to play so that is how I connect to 'them' I buy myself whatever I want and I hardly go anywhere without checking out the toy isle. So I'm hoping my less loved parts get something out of that... when I'm feeling hateful I will go do something like that... and I'm not sure if it switches out the kid I'm dealing with or helps.

Also - I don't have DID. But I have enough EPs I could make two football teams and fill an arena with them at times. Anyway, no, I have not magically integrated but I do accept a lot of my playfulness... I've become less judgmental over the fact I get SERIOUSLY giddy about crazy stuff. Both my Ts.. even though I'm extremely adult/responsible have told me I'm an unusually playful adult. It's okay to be playful, and to talk to yourself... I talk to myself so much I've referred to myself as 'we' as long as I can remember. I dunno... IMHO you'll get there someday in the meantime... indulge in any moments you feel little (but aren't hurting) and you'll be speaking to her Eventually you'll like each other... at least... I hope it happens cuz I really need it to for me!

Aww TN, he isn't mad at you, there are so many much more likely explanations for why he wasn't as good on the phone as usual, it's just that your fears are telling you that. I don't think he has no empathy either. He's just extremely mediocre at expressing it. You can get through this with him just like you've gotten through so many things in the past.

It's funny how your T reminds me of mine sometimes. They are not necessarily the sharpest, flashiest T's and they don't ooze empathy through their pores, but by gosh they are steady and committed and they really do care.

You don't really have to flip out about this TN. It's more grist for the mill that you'll get through one way or the other. I know that's so much easier said than done, but I'm just trying to give the perspective from the sidelines.



Edit: Oh yeah I wanted to add something I forgot to say before. Back when I was reading this book about healing from having an NPD mother it talked about connecting with your inner children and I didn't think I could do it. I didn't think I even LIKED my inner child. 6-7 months of chugging on trying to listen and be more compassionate and some things have shifted. I do feel like I'm constantly playing peacekeeper between my younger and older parts in trying to come up with decisions that take both into account. It's really hard, BUT...my depression is gone. My SU are almost gone. My SI is almost gone. I just feel more "whole" in general. This stuff is really powerful if you can manage it.

f

y

quote:

He empathizes and listens and validates me when my child parts come out, but we don't treat them as separate parts of me

This is exactly how my P handles it. I know when my inner child has come out, I can feel it and I'm sure my P knows as well because his tone of voice becomes very kind, accepting and gentle. But also as XOXO has said, he never pushed for this. Instead, he has provided a safe and consistent environment that has allowed it to happen, which is what I needed at the time.

I believe your T is acting in your best interests and in reading this thread I started to wonder if the reason for pushing you to do this inner child work now, before the trip, is because he's actually seeing "her" emotions when you become apprehensive about this vacation. it's probably your inner child that doesn't want to separate from him, deal with difficult in-laws and won't allow herself to feel as if she's deserving of a nice trip away from home.

A very similar thing happened to me with my exP and he insisted that I deserved a vacation, despite my fears, and it probably was the best thing he ever did for me.

Even though he helped me in that respect, he wasn't usually helpful with relating to my inner child, because if I started to express those painful feelings, he would try to find ways to comfort me. As a result, I got stuck and relied upon him to "take those feelings away" versus learning how to walk through them and heal.

I think I've felt some anger at my current P for not trying to assuage my pain, and take away these awful feelings. He is very empathetic, but not demonstrative, such as with hugs or even handshakes, and definitely not with endless compliments like my exP, so I initially interpreted that as an unempathetic response to me. Could this possibly be part of the anger you now feel towards your T?

I never came out directly and told my P any of this. We've never spoken of the inner child, in those terms, and I imagine he would view it as my unconscious feelings coming into play.

In my frustration towards what I perceived as his inability to ease or even erase my pain, I would just act out repeatedly, such as in finding fault with him and saying I was going to quit. Due to his patience and consistency, I overcame that need and allowed myself to sit with those awful feelings associated with my inner child, basically trauma from my childhood which I had memories of the actual events, but not of the feelings associated with those events.

Those feelings resurfaced when my P was not available over a holiday break. I had to go through them completely on my own and allow myself to fully re-experience the trauma and then tell my P about it later. Knowing that he was there helped, but I think your T is trying to gently push you to allow yourself to go through the painful feelings of your childhood. Sometimes breaks really help in this respect because you are forced to confront this, not go around it.

He can't take the pain away and you can't suppress it forever (at least while in therapy), but he will be there for you on the other side of this pain. Maybe this is what he means by talking to yourself? Allowing yourself to re-experiencing the pain from your inner child, which is extremely difficult, but you, as a capable adult can get through it, knowing he is there to provide insight and empathy.

I hope I haven't projected too much of my stuff and what I'm going through now but I think you will work through this with your T as you have worked through so many difficult ruptures and misunderstandings, which, in every case, made you stronger within yourself and your relationship with him.


Summer

ps - xoxo hit the spot on shame....I uncovered an immense amount of shame and fear when I finally allowed myself to feel what I had suppressed for decades.

hi TN, i'm really sorry to see you in a bad place and i don't know if I have anything helpful to say because my experience could be quite different from yours. i feel like your T might be pushing too much and that's why your defenses might actually get stronger as you push back in a 'protective' reaction. that's something i do a lot. for me, pushing me to do something can result in me doing the exact opposite i'm supposed to do, but thats probably just me, i can be very reactive and stubborn. you sound a lot more co-operative and like you have a good 'team' with your T. it might be worth to talk about him pushing you too hard if you really think it's not helping.

i don't do any 'inner child' work with my T (or at least I dont think I do or it was never labeled that otherwise I would have run a mile) - as i am still quite protective of the 'child' part of me and 'she' is very mistrustful and hardly ever comes out. but i do have a lot of conversations with myself (or 'wars' is a more appropriate word). i find if i write things down, what the different parts feel / think / need etc, sometimes i come closer to a sort of a resolution to the conflicts between the different parts. and I don't have DID either, i dont really know what the correct term is, i just feel broken and.... i would like to write this in really small font... i hate myself too.

but what i really wanted to say is that sometimes even if you start the 'communication' with yourself with negative things - like how you feel about yourself, it can be really painful but the truth can be freeing and you might find some compassion for yourself too. i think it can be a good exercise but it has to be an honest one and not something someone else can make you do. maybe what you're finding too hard are also your expectations of what you think you're supposed to do. you don't have to start loving your inner child and only say positive things to her - maybe the first step is to start an open communication and get to know yourself more and in time accept all parts of yourself good and bad as they are. easy to say in theory, i know... the scariest things we'll ever face are sometimes inside ourselves.

i hope i havent gone off on a tangent which is more about me and my stuff...

i hope you can resolve this latest miss-atunement with your T as its very hard (or impossible?) to do any work otherwise.

take care,
(and tell little TN how you feel - even if you don't like her much right now... she might appreciate the honesty or that you are at least acknowledging she exists)



puppet

Hi everyone, I have wanted to come back to this thread and to thank you all for all the support, information, sharing and kind words. I needed some time to digest everything and to process my Monday session with T. I will try to respond to some of you now.

Yaku...

quote:

It's times like these I wish your T was better at the empathy stuff, because if you could feel his being OK with her, caring for her, better, it might be a little easier to risk being OK with her yourself, at least in the context of therapy. Sorry, not trying to overload you, but just hate to see how you got hurt continuing into today. It makes me so sad and makes me want to give that little girl a big, safe, mommy hug. Hope that's not too weird. I just imagine that little girl and I want her to not have to hurt all alone anymore.

Yaku thank you for your support and for being angry on my behalf. I wanted to tell you that my T really came through for me with the empathy this time. I had sent him an email on Friday evening after the phone call which felt distant and abrupt. And then I got no response. By Sunday morning I was really anxious so I re-sent the email with a note that I was anxious and worried. Turns out he never got the original email. Got lost in cyber space I guess. So he told me that and also that he would write me a longer email before Sunday evening. He came through and wrote a really comforting, sweet email about what he thinks we should do and how he can help me with it and why we need to do it. He told me that I have to try to trust him that he would never let this hurt me. He said I have faced much scarier things and handled it well and that he thinks I should be curious about why I am so rejecting of this request. And he told me he would see me Monday and "don't cancel". That made me feel good knowing that he really wanted to see me.

The session went really well and he told me that I did really good work and he was proud of me. He told me he knew I was allowing little TN in the room and that she was listening to us. He said he could just tell and that this was a good start. He told me that we don't have to go into everything that little TN is holding before I leave for vacation but that we need to open a dialogue with her so that I am stronger for my trip. He teased me a bit and made me laugh. I gave him a bit of a hard time and he said that I'm lucky he adores me LOL. That made me feel warm and fuzzy and I really needed to hear that. He also wants little TN to attach to him and that it will be okay. He won't abandon her like oldT did. He knows that is a big part of the fear of letting this happen. He was really empathic and kind and we had a really good, connecting session that I still "feel". I really am looking forward to seeing him on Thursday.

TN

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What I totally don't get with his methodology is why pushing you right before a trip is a good idea??? Wouldn't it be a better time to be grounded, and foster a sense of connection that will outlast the separation??

Hi effed...

We talked about this. He said he thought this over carefully... whether doing this will leave me unstable for the trip or make me stronger. He believes it will help me on my trip and that we will be in touch through email or phone calls if necessary to keep me in a good place. He wants us to work on making me stronger and less anxious around some family members who may run through my boundaries. He said by acknowledging little TN I will be less anxious and more able to act as the adult in that situation. I have to trust him on this.

Of course, the giggles and the ick factor of inner kid work still needs to be overcome.

Thanks
TN

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I am supposed to talk to this child and ask the adult what I need. WTF? I also feel nauseous when she talks about this. So T backtracks and says to get a photo (which I don't have) and to talk to the photo. WTF? I told her there is no point in me trying this if I feel there is no connection - because it is just an exercise in detachment for me.

If I don't feel anything and it is a foreign concept for me - it is pointless.

SD...so sorry you are struggling and in a bad place with your T. I feel much the same way but others have said if we can just try to start to do this it will get easier. Maybe if I have my T with me when I begin this and maybe HE can talk to her also. I have a bunch of pictures I may bring in to T. Maybe it will help to start this by just talking about the pictures.

It seems we are dealing with a lot of the same issues and both of our T's seem to think those inner kids have a lot of sway over us. Can they both be wrong? I feel a little more willing to try this since my T was so comforting in our last session. At least I have not closed the door on this. You shouldn't either.

Hugs
TN

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And I should stress that a T. should only push (I think) when there is a very solid therapeutic relationship already established.

Which you totally have, TN.

The inner child stuff is hard. Once, I actually shouted, "Oh, just shoot the g**d*** inner child already!"

He looked alarmed. And then we laughed.

But it's very much how I feel. Like she needs to just get over it already.

Thanks, BG. This totally cracked me up. I feel the same way LOL.

Yes I do have a very solid relationship with my T. And if he pushes too hard I can stop him at least long enough to do further exploration of the topic and why there is resistance on my part. He is really good at explaining things. And he has a great sense of humor which helps. I do trust his sense of what we need to do... it's just really hard at times.

Thanks,
TN

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Basically I found the whole thing highly cringey, deeply embarrassing and totally impossible to do. Personally, when I am resisting something it normally means I do need to 'go there' but I feel unable to do it. Have explored my resistance to doing this work with my T and for me it basically boils down to exactly what you said...I hate little me, I want her just to get lost and go away and never even have existed. My T thinks that this is how I probably felt as a baby and that is why it is so important I integrate the feelings and love the little me that maybe felt so unloved.

Hi Searching and welcome. Thank you so much for joining to respond to my topic. Yes... this above is so similar to me and explains things perfectly. Cringey is how I feel about that inner kid. And I also wanted to thank you for the Burney website reference. I am exploring it bit by bit.

I, too, believe that knowledge is power and I read voraciously. My T is amazed at how much I do know about psychololgy and how therapy works and different kinds of therapy etc.

I really think it helped to explore further what my T thinks we should do before vacation. He is not asking to know and hear everything from little TN. He said that could wait. He just wants me to be more aware of her and how scared she is so that I can comfort her while on my trip and will be able to be in adult mode.

I look forward to getting to know you better and hope to see you around again.

TN

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What helps (but is needed in greater doses from him to allow her to fully emerge) is when T invites her with warmth and gentleness. It is essential. When he sits 'over there' she hides...when he sits close, she dares to inch forward. And it is not just about a verbal invitation, it is about his manner...make it sound and feel like you want to meet her T...don't just rattle off a stale, generic invitation. Rather then ask, "What is that little part feeling right now?" say instead, "Hey Little You, tell me what you are feeling..." There is a difference there.

But by far the biggest hurdle is the one about what happens when she's 'out'...who tends to her. I don't want to tend to her...I will bring her out, but I want T to tend to her. I want him to wrap her up in the love she never had and this will make it all better, right? Or not. I don't know. It's just that at the end of the day I don't see how I can comfort and nurture my own self. He says he can offer care and comfort in the process, but that he cannot do this for me. Well the original deficit was about outside people not doing what needed to be done, so it seems logical to me that it can only ever be filled by someone on the outside. Trying to do it myself is a bit like thinking about eating my arm because I'm hungry. As if you could eat yourself, even if starving!

Wow, Monte, this really resonated with me. T has seemed a bit reserved over the past few weeks and maybe this has me (or little TN) resistant to being out there. It's probably due to the rupture we had over his wife joining the office that has taken me some time to accept and tolerate. But on Monday, he moved in closer and spoke about her in soft, gentle tones and she began to at least listen to him again. She was quietly in the room observing and deciding if it was safe. He told me the last time she came out was during my graduation celebration with him when we sat on the floor and ate cookies. She does like him but is wary of being abandoned like she was by oldT.

You see, in those last months before oldT began to act crazy, culimating in his abandonment, she was really out and my T has said I had begun to integrate. I had felt free, the anxiety was greatly diminished, I was playing outside with my son, I took him on a picnic and I began to remember games I played with friends as a young child and I introduced my son to them. And then, suddenly, oldT began to get angry at me and abusive and then harsh and he abandoned us. Little TN, me and my son. And so she is terrified that it was all her fault. If she had not been so present then oldT would not have been so angry at us and would not have left us alone. My T totally understands this and it's a big hurdle for us.

And like you I now have no idea how to tend to her. I think what we need to do is to watch how our T's handle this and learn from them.

Thanks so much Monte for sharing this with me. It was helpful. I hope you are doing okay during this break. Keep us posted.

Hugs
TN

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My T doesn't talk about my inner child but I do recognize these emotional parts I have that I have hated and try to disown. One of the biggest parts I've hated are my dependency needs. I was beating myself up for having dependency needs because I was beat up as a child for having dependency needs.

Thanks Liese. Maybe you could introduce this topic to your T? When we try to disown these parts I think it causes us a lot of problems. My T says I need to integrate or I will be handicapped by the child who controls the emotional part of me and where the anxiety comes from. He said this anxiety is disproportionate to the abilities and strength of the adult me.

sigh... it's just really hard at times.

TN

A very big thank you to the rest of you who I didn't have a chance to respond to YET. I'm just really exhausted tonight. I'll come back to this thread to finish tomorrow.

There is so much good information and discussion here and I do think it's a really important topic. I am sort of getting some motivation to tackle this as long as I know my T will be there when I stumble or get scared or things get rough. I could never do this with oldT (although my T said I was almost there and did it practically on my own until oldT got scared and bailed on me).

Hugs and thanks to all of you.
TN

Hi again,

HIC... thank you for that link. I have the book in my cart. And yes, I AM going to your favorite place in the world. I should be happy and excited but all the family angst and pain is putting a definite damper on it.

Muff... I am glad to hear that your T followed you where you needed to go and that you followed the inner child. I guess I am more resistant. I think it's great that you could rescue yourself when it was needed. I think my T wants me to understand that if I go forward and I get stuck or scared he will be with me to help and support me.

I may be showing my ignorance here but who/what is Tardis and Yaris?

Cat... you are absolutely correct in that sitting on the floor did help my inner child to come out. My T even mentioned that the last time he saw her was at our graduation party (sitting on the floor). I am thinking that I may move on to playing a game with him. I think he would like it and it may help. In the last few months with oldT (as I described in a post above) I was much more playful and went back to rediscover old games I played as a child. That ended and got tangled up with the abandonment and I could never really recapture that feeling.

Hi BLT... that is real progress what you describe in your post. To be able to pay attention and make peace with your inner child to the point where your SI and SU are just about gone and you feel more whole is a wonderful accomplishment. Keep it up! For some reason, since I pushed back at T and told him how I was feeling he has turned up the nururing and even the empathy. It is feeling good!

Xoxo thank you for your thoughtful post. My T has pushed me a bit harder lately because of this trip. It's not that I think I don't deserve to go and have fun, it's more like facing family problems while I'm there and one person in particular who used to be important to me and caused me a lot of pain. My T is trying to make me stronger so I can deal with the fallout when I get there. But T is also listening closely to me and has backed of somewhat since that session and has been more empathic and nurturing. Yes, he does mirror me a lot because I didn't have that and in the beginning I kept telling him I didn't have any idea who I was. Especially after oldT destroyed any sense of self that was taking hold. My T is trying to integrate the terrified child with the very competent adult. There is a definite split between how I feel and what I do/think. I also think you are correct in your assessment that part of the difficulty is shame-based but I have not broached that topic yet with T. I do know that he cares a lot about me which is why I stay with him. He is a good, smart T who has done a lot to help me recover.

puppet...it's really unusual for me to push back so hard. My T reminded me today that this is really the first time I had refused what he asked of me and that warranted further exploration. Thank you for encouraging me to talk to little TN even if it's not all positive. And that saying anything is a good first step in the process. Sometimes I expect so much it gets overwhelming and then I freeze and cannot do anything at all. I like your approach. Thanks for your post.

T and I have continued to talk about this topic. He has been very kind and gentle with me lately and also reassuring about our relationship. He points out valid behaviors on both our parts and continues to contrast it with oldT and others who have hurt me in the past. Nothing I do or say gets past him. He's pretty amazing. He really likes little TN which makes this a bit less scary. He continues to tell me that while this feels scary it's not dangerous. And that he will not leave me alone to do this. He is there for me. I needed to hear that today.

So little by little we are moving forward. I think I will bring a game in for us to play and sit on the floor. I also picked out some pictures of me as a baby/child from ages one to about 12 which I plan to bring in to share with him. I tried this once with oldT and it was a disaster. This was about two sessions before he began to act strange and talked about me seeing someone else.

Over the last two sessions I have been feeling really good and secure with my T. He just always comes through for me. He is really there and he really cares. I am very fortunate.

Hugs to all
TN

((((TN)))

So glad things are solid with your T. When do you leave for your trip and how long will be gone? I hope you don't mind me asking. It would just freak me out if you just disappeared.

xoxo

Liese

Hi Liese,

Thanks for asking. I wouldn't just disappear from the Board. I expect to have at least some internet service so I plan to keep in touch at times during my vacation.

TN

I am glad Liese asked - because I have an attachment to TN and your posts and would feel abandoned all over again if they went away.

Have a great trip TN.

It's taken me a little while to work up to the point of posting in this thread... I struggle with the 'Inner Child' concept a lot myself... and I wanted to chime in and say that you're not alone.

When my T first brought up the concept with me... I think I did that mystical thing where you don't actually hear what they say and just carry on talking. My T's explained that this is a theraputic defense mechanism that forces our brains to filter out things we're not ready to hear/deal with. I always thought this was kindof cool.

Anyway... She brought it up again later on... And we talked a bit about it and identified the youngen that is afraid.

As time went on, we identified the slightly older protector of the youngen.

And most recently, we identified the really, really angry monster which we've called 'It'... (Because I'm unimaginative and have a hard time coming along for the ride on it long enough to properly name the beast)

So... I guess my own battle with this concept has been being a rational and fairly logical and analytical adult...and trying to figure out how to Be aware of and Recognize the 'little me's'...but more importantly... the biggest hurdle, for me, is trying to come to terms with the need to ENGAGE them.

My T has weaved and bobbed through this process, and her patience is endless when I am resistant to the concept of both CBT and 'little ones'.

One of the people here that I find the most astonishing is Yaku. It blows me away how they could be so open and free to really, really explore this in most necessary way- in order to reconnect the pieces of the puzzle.

I plan to ask my T for help getting over this hurdle... But before I think I will be able to... I'll need to get over the fear of looking stupid in front of her.

She offers for me to draw there with her... and I think... Good god, I'm a 30 year old business professional...How am I supposed to be taken seriously if I break out the crayons?

Anyway... My own battle aside... I did want to perhaps offer one inexperienced suggestion that has helped me ENTERTAIN the idea of wanting to further explore the concept (it's taken me 8 months to get there though...be patient with yourself)...

Anyway, my suggestion is to try buying a box of crayons and heading to your nearest hippy type store and purchasing a VERY basic "MANDALA" colouring book. I recommend the "Everyone's Mandala Colouring Book" by Monique Mandali. They are cheap books with simple circular designs...and it is an amazing way to start the process of connecting with yourself.

I know... it sounds really simplistic and possibly very silly. But try it once... with the TV off, and nothing to distract you. Just once.

Hi NavyMe... thank you for the suggestion of the Mandala coloring book. I have never heard of that before. One time I did challenge my T and ask... "so what if I need to sit on the floor and color or play games with you, huh? then what?" And he calmly said "so we will sit on the floor and color or play games... whatever it takes". I was truly shocked by that because he is so dignified and dresses professionally and he just plops down on the floor with me. We have not colored or played games but we have talked and we had my graduation party on the floor. I have been thinking about bringing in a game to engage little TN.

I agree that Yaku and her T are doing a great job with the parts work.

I know how hard it is to get past the idea that we will look silly or foolish in front of T. My T seems so accepting of the need to do this and right now he has backed off the pushing but he is turning up the nurturing and the care which is having the side effect of bringing little TN into the room. That man is very wise.

I'm glad to see you post on the NavyMe and let us know how you are doing with this challenge. thanks for sharing you own situation with me. It really helps.

Hugs
TN

Me???

(((Navy))) (((TN)))

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My T seems so accepting of the need to do this and right now he has backed off the pushing but he is turning up the nurturing and the care which is having the side effect of bringing little TN into the room. That man is very wise.

This was EXACTLY what I was hoping for you...works loads better. First time my T talked about "inner child" stuff barf. Sorry, but there it is. Actually just reaching out to them very gently made all the difference. I'm so glad you have your T.

Hi TN, I think you're on vacation right now? But I've wanted to comment on this thread for a while but just haven't had the chance.

My T and I have been doing some work with the inner me(s?) for a while now. It felt icky at first, but I've slowly become a bit more comfortable considering them. The turning point for me was to think of how I'd treat them if they weren't parts of me. I'd never ignore them or diminish what they think or feel, so that's what I'm trying to do with my inner self. I haven't been able to get to the point yet where T and I discuss the attachment that those younger parts have, but I'm realizing them more lately. Although I know T knows there is attachment there. She just told me her scheduled breaks for at least 3 months out just so I could be prepared...If that isn't speaking to the parts of me that are attached then I don't know what is! But it's comforting to have T acknowledge (in even a small way - which is all I'm comfortable with right now) the attachment and be okay with it.

So, I love to read how great and accepting your T is of little TN. She'll slowly learn to trust again, but I just hate that old T wounded her so badly when she finally risked coming out more.

TrueNorth, When I started therapy I had the resentment you express about the inner child. Such a drag when you want to just go on and live your life. I was super achieving, a tough gal, and could hardly deal with the idea there was a part of me that was "childish" anxious, weak, etc. But one thing that had helped lately was finding a picture, and artwork in a magazine, of a little girl. It touched me some way that actually made me feel sympathetic. I then imagined that if my inner kid were like that I could no longer be condescending, rejecting toward her. The picture has helped me become more willing to do the inner child work. Just a thought.

TN, you are being very hard on yourself. My inner-child is always trying to run the show and when she does.....watch out. She is VERY powerful. It is like a very dangerous reflex. I always talk to myself; it is extremely beneficial and much of the time, the only way to get through to the kid. Be gentle and go slow. You are the best friend of this kid....and the child needs you to show her how to do it. We would never let a child drive a bus; so, put the kid in a seatbelt next to you and you get in the driver's seat. It takes practice and is always a work in progress. I have very good conversations with her. She is in severe pain and is petrified of everything; so it comes out it anger or withdrawl. Actually, I am in a huge withdrawl state right now because my T gave me an abrupt answer to an email I sent him and his response hurt me and surprised me and now I hate him and never want to go back....and I see him today...with a huge attitude in tow. I don't want to tell him he hurt me, because he should have known better. I can't stand this therapy crap anymore. Sometimes I wonder if it does more harm than good. I hope you find hope and help in all these posts.

I believe in Inner Child work, and the John Bradshaw books, but I do wish my T would stop hiding behind it to avoid my transference feelings for her. It's always how I can be a better mother for my inner kid. I'm just screaming for a chance to talk to T about my feelings for her, not the child, for a change. I just don't think transference should be ignored, It's become like the elephant in the room, and I'm about ready to say to T I don't want to hear another word about me being a good parent! I don't know what a good parent is anyway because I never had one!