Intense Erotic Transference - please help | The PsychCafe

kMember

Dear. Dr. LaCombe,

I read your article on transference as well as a lot of reader's comments. I would like to share my story and get some advice on how to deal with these debilitating feelings.

I started seeing this Dr. in March of 2014. For the first 4 or 5 sessions, my Dr. helped me work through my chaotic issues surrounding my family and my marriage. She was intuitive with her approach and we made many realizations and breakthroughs. During these earlier sessions, my marriage of 17 yrs fell apart as a result of my stress of dealing with my familial issues, so I was spiraling. She tried to help me put things back together. Our session became increasingly longer, on average around 2 hours and she'd always schedule me last. It was around this time, I started realizing that I had a crush on her. I talked about it with my friends, and they suggested I find someone else, unless this crush wasn't interfering with my healing.

Around the 5th or 6th session and after reading about transference, I decided to tell her about how I felt about her, and when I did... her whole face and neck got really red and she was surprised and said she was flattered. I said to her surely this has happened to you before, and she said that no one has EVER told her that they felt this way. She asked me to describe what I was feeling, and the maybe I'm mistaking my crush for feelings of admiration. I asked her what the difference between the two were, and she said a crush was sexual in nature and admiration wasn't. I said, that it was for sure a crush as I felt very strong sexual feelings towards her. So I told her that I wasn't sure if we should keep going, but that I would need to think about it. And she too, said, she would need to think about it as well. The days following she emailed me saying that she wanted to keep working with me, and that it's normal to feel these feelings during therapy and that we can work through it.

At this point, because the cat was out the of bag, I was feeling even more drawn to her. I'm sure my situation at the time totally played into it - My partner had just broken up with me, I lost my dog of 14 yrs, my parents of 40yrs were getting a divorce, I was trying to work through devastating childhood sexual abuse (by the dad that raised me) and I had also just found out the dad who raised me wasn't my biological father. So lots of things had been happening. And this Dr. was the one beacon of light and compassion. And started to totally have the hots for her. It's so weird, but that was the furthest thing from my mind when I first started working with her.

So, we worked for another 6 sessions, and each and every session, I started feeling stronger and stronger for her. I started having extremely graphic fantasies about us being together. I wrote her a letter stating all these feelings, and in the end I ended up coming up with lyrics to a song. (I'm also a musician). I told her I had done this, and she commended me on practicing 'sublimation' - where I take something undesirable and make it productive - in this case, writing a letter to her, but then creating lyrics out of it for my craft. She said it was healthy.

But all it did was fuel the fire. I was UNABLE to think of anything else but her. When I wasn't busy at work, or handling drama from my breakup or my parents, my mind was filled with thoughts of her.

During other sessions, she would talk about her life and hobbies She showed me pictures she had taken with her iPhone, as she was taking an iPhone photography class. She would lean near to me, and show me her pics. In between sessions we would email each other about situations that would come up regarding my ex-partner. Also she would tell me that she really liked me as a person, and that she could see my beauty. But she would tell me with regards to my feelings for her, that it would never happen, because she was straight and married. She didn't say it wouldn't happen because it's not the right thing to do or that it would be crossing a boundary. So her reactions to my feelings were all in such a gray area. At times I almost felt the she like that I was stroking her ego. I even asked told her that I read if I just knew something normal about her, that I could 'humanize' her and not have her up on a pedestal. And she responded with a no, because she needed us to have a Dr. / Patient relationship in order for the therapy to be successful. I felt I tried everything to not feel this way about her.

After my last session with her, I felt this overwhelming feeling of sadness and hopelessness. I almost felt WORSE than when I had first started seeing her. I had such feelings of longing and yearning and then total agony just knowing that there would never be a time we could be together. Then I would feel such shame and embarrassment for even feeling these irrational feelings. I thought I was going nuts.

So, I decided to write her an email before our next scheduled session. I was very open and said that even though in the beginning she had helped me through some things, now all I could see was her beauty, her brilliance and how badly I wanted her. I let it all out. And I then said that I would keep seeing her only if she could help be work through these transference feelings, because my initial healing had been hindered by these debilitating feelings. Then I said, if she felt she couldn't help me, then I would have to terminate our dr/patient relationship and find therapy elsewhere.

She responded with offering to refer a colleague and that she would just handle my medication management. I responded that I felt we should sever all ties aside from the colleague referral. Then she replied and changed her mind about referring her colleague as they probably didn't take my insurance and that it would also be a constant connection to her and ... good luck to me. Even though I wanted to sever ties, I felt rejected and abandoned and totally hurt by her "cutting off" of my care. It was as if she was okay to wash her hands of me, or maybe didn't want me to divulge info about us to people she works with.

I ended up finding another therapist - a male this time. I told him all about the intense erotic transference feelings I was having towards the former dr., and he suggested that I have a closing session with her as to not things unresolved. And I told him that I felt uneasy, but excited at the prospect of seeing her again. So, I contact the former Dr. with this idea. And she shoots me down again. She says that we had already tried that and it made things worse, and that there is no need for formal closing session and that i should just continue my healing with the new Dr...and good luck.

Again, I felt like this was yet another loss. It has now been 1 week since this happened and my mind is still swarming with thoughts of her. I just cannot believe this happened to me. This has never happened to me. I wished she had the strength to work through this transference, unless she herself was feeling counter transference with me. I don't know. I just ache with the longing for her presence. And I know that she is just fantasy. I know she wasn't my friend. I know I was paying her for her services. But even knowing that doesn't stop these emotions. It's just so hopeless feeling. I am so glad that I'm not alone and that I'm not crazy and that is common.

I feel therapists need to be more educated and trained to deal when this happens, especially since it is so common. When you already feel lost and alone and beaten down, the last thing you want to feel is more of the same from the person that is supposed to be helping you.

I need to know how to get over her, because I just cannot take this pain.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give me,
k_0116

8/1/1412:29 AM

Original Post

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ghostgirlMember

Hello K,

It was very brave of you to post this and it took alot of courage. I hear your pain and totally identify.

When I first started therapy with my T I experienced severe erotic transference. My mind was filled with sexual fantasies of my T and it brought up alot of shame and disgust toward myself. At the time I entered therapy I just come out of having my first "emotional affair" with another woman and was questioning my sexuality in general so it was very confusing for me to feel sexual about my T. Like you, I summoned the courage to tell her. Fortunately for me, in just telling her it dispelled most of the sexual feelings. I do have great admiration for her mind and her body (because she is HOT in my opinion).

I think somehow for me the erotic transference was tied to the sexual abuse I received from my mother and because I linked emotional intimacy with sexual intimacy. Having feelings of erotic transference are quite normal (according to my understanding it happens frequently). The shame is not yours to own.

Perhaps your T was experiencing countertransference that she was unable to manage. I am sorry that your therapy terminated and that you were unable to work this through with her. I have been unable to work through my regular transference with my T because it is just too strong and she just isn't skilled enough in her training to deal with it. I was angry at her and felt rejected because of that for a long time, because in an ideal world our object of transference will work through the transference with us, but unfortunately we are not in an ideal world.

I hear your pain, I hear your struggle. I am and have experienced it myself. I just hope that you can explore this with someone else if you wish. I don't think it is a rejection of you or your feelings even though it definately feels that way. I think some Ts just aren't trained or feel comfortable enough with their own boundaries to deal with it.

8/1/145:49 AM

Attachment GirlAdmin

Hi K,

to the forums. A lot of people who post here will understand. I have also experienced a pretty intense Erotic Transference with my T. But he is very experienced (over 35 years) and has handled it beautifully. I am guessing that your T was relatively inexperienced. It sounds like after you first revealed your feelings that she went to a supervisor then came back to you and said you could work through it. I think she badly mishandled it, but not keeping clear enough boundaries and letting her needs into the room.

My T told me that it's very important for a therapist on the other end of those feelings to realize that it's not because they're so wonderful, it's more about the set up of therapy and their client's needs. I think this was enjoyable and gratifying for your therapist and she was so busy enjoying the attention that she forgot to focus on your needs.

It took an incredible amount of strength and courage to leave her but I think you did the right thing. A client can end up really damaged if this kind of intense transference is mishandled (see some of True North and Armoured Heart's old posts).

I do want to assure you that these feelings are normal. The problem is that not a lot of clients speak up about them so there are many T's who have not encountered it and I do not think it is adequately covered in everyone's training.

Below are some links you might find helpful, (one is a link to my blog):

Erotic Transference on Tales of a Boundary Ninja

Erotic Transference on A Guide to Psychology You might to also check out the Q&A section on this blog, he answers a lot of client questions and there some good stuff in there.

Update on Transference This is a long thread on the forum (which links to another long thread) on the topic. It dates back to 2008 but it gets revived at times and there are a lot of good conversations on there. Also using the Find button at the top of the forum and searching on "Transference" will turn up other old threads on the topic. Don't hesitate to ask questions, but just wanted to let you know that there is good info out there.

Last but not least, you should know that Dr. LaCombe very rarely posts anymore (she used to when the forum was brand new), so this is really a peer support forum.

AG

8/1/147:19 AM

kMember

Thank you so much ghost girl, truly. It is so helpful to hear that others have experienced these feelings. And you're correct, shame and disgust are high on my list. I do identify as a Lesbian, so these sexual desires make sense to me - just not the pining over a person that isn't "real".

I am going to continue working with my new therapist on these feelings. And like you mentioned linking emotional and sexual intimacy together, my former Dr. explained this wiring to me as a result of my abuse as a child. Because I was abused during a time of sexual development, I mixed up the signals. This made me realize that throughout my life, I had put strong (what I thought was strong) women on a pedestal and immediate felt sexual feelings towards them, instead of just admiring their characteristics. But I was told by both former and current Dr., this wiring can be changed - which is so hopeful.

And my new doc HAS had experience with transference with his own patients and he did say that it's a "muscle" T's develop to where those issues just go into the background during therapy. So, good news there too. My former doc had had none.

Anyhow, thank you again and I hope you find your way to healing from your transference feelings as well. Thanks for being so welcoming!

K

kMember

Dear Attachment Girl,

I will echo the same sentiment as I did for ghost girl - you guys are just awesome. Thank you.

I really appreciate the reading material too. Lord knows I've been researching this topic like crazy ever since I have encountered it. So, I welcome as much info on this subject as possible.

And thanks for the validation of how my poorly my old doc handled this. There's a part of me that would love to tell her how her actions have affected me and that maybe she could use this as a tool for learning herself. Not that I'd say it in a vengeful way, but more in a recommendation way. However, I'm sure my want to do this is only to have more contact with her. Who am I fooling. Ugh, this sucks.

I will check out the blogs and qa info you referred to me. And thanks for the clarity on Dr. LaCombe! I also like that I'm hearing from peers anyhow.

Thank you too for being so generous with your info!

K

kMember

Armored Heart - thank you so much for taking the time to write your reply. I hope to find myself at your current level of healing in the future to where I may pass on great insight as you have to me now. Thank you thank you. And no, I take no offense to anything you wrote. I, too, am in a totally raw and open place, where I'm saying what I'm feeling. So, I can completely relate.

And your mention of feeling like you're talking about it too much - I'm totally going through that right now with my friends/family. Although all of my people are extremely supportive, I'm really glad I found this forum to speak with those that have actually gone or are going through this now. It's really powerful to know I'm not alone and not twisted in my thinking.

I keep telling my friends that I wish I had that Men In Black memory eraser pen. I would love to have never met her at all. But I suppose it could've happened with the next person. As I am lesbian, I was careful to pick new T that isn't a woman, or an older father figure type male. I went with a male that is around my age- so it feels safe. However, with regards to not choosing a female T this time around, my new T said that transference can happen with ANYONE - even a 90 yr old dude. So, ok, at least I know what to look for in myself and the T as well. As I've read through many posts, it's interesting to see how many straight, married women end having erotic transference towards there female therapist. So, I know it has nothing to do with my orientation as much as trauma from childhood. I"m really eager to figure those parts out.

As I move forward with all of this and with my relationships with friends and family - I'm also at this point where I'm very open about my feelings. This is because part of my recent trauma is finding out this past Dec when I turned 40, that I had a different dad. This secret was kept from me and my brothers all these years. My entire family knew about it. So I'm on this crusade to not sweep anything under the rug. I appreciate everyone lifting me up for being open and honest with my exT (i'll use your term, i like that). Being open with her about my feelings was hard, but I'm also realizing that it's also a part of me testing the waters - I guess my ego was also getting in the way. And I wonder if me feeding her ego, was also feeding my ego. Because I would flirt with her, and she wouldn't stop it. And I even sent her a recent recording of mine, as we talked through how I haven't played music for a long time and I finally started back. She would tell me how beautiful my voice was and that it would be such a loss to not start my music back up again. I know all these things could be just someone supporting me, lifting me up - but to me I was confused, and I twisted the compliments into a mutual attraction. THEN I would stop, breathe and realize what I was doing and thinking was insane for lack of a better term. It's like total MADNESS that I'm going through.

I know that working through these feelings is what I need to do with a responsible T. It's very hard and luckily with everyone replies, I can see the end tunnel light a little clearer now.

I'm trying to figure out if indulging my feelings for her in my journaling is healthy - or if I need to just stop it altogether outside of therapy with my new T. I mean, I was writing some very explicit stuff in my journal, almost like to get it out of my system. And it's weird, sometimes I just feel like if just have one experience together, I'll be cured - I know that sounds so irrational, but I just want rid of these feelings - as if it's a disease, or a stomach bug or something.

Anyhow, thanks again.

You guys have no idea how much your all's stories are helping me cope.

K

8/1/142:01 PM

kMember

Good morning Armored Heart

.

Don't apologize! Your words are soooo helpful. Having validation for my gut feeling is something I've been needed to hear. One of my issues is misreading cues and on the same token not believing in my first instincts. So, seriously your posts are very welcome and helpful.

What you mentioned about deserving more than an abusive encounter with someone - really really stuck with me. That makes so much sense to me. This is a tool I will use NOW when ever thoughts of her consume my mind. I am finally dealing with the issue of loving myself. I have always known, I suppose that I need to pour all this into my being. But it is only now that I am trying to actively do things that are only for my own growth. And your analogies (i love analogies) are some of the most logical ones I've heard yet. Thank you.

I had my 3rd session with my newT yesterday. We talked more about oldT. I revealed more things to him that she did during our sessions. Because during our first couple sessions, I didn't get a chance or remember to tell him all of her behavior during our time. And his initial reaction was that of not understanding what "gray space" I was talking about. Almost minimizing my experience to one that was just in my head - like I just misread some of her cues. But yesterday, I told him more, and he finally understood WHY I was in the mental bind I was in. I had just told him that we would email back and forth between sessions, that she would mention other patients and how she handled them when she didn't want to treat them anymore, showing me pics on her phone and being near me when she did. And all these things AFTER I told her my feelings for her. So, he finally gets it. So, not sure if this is a red flag for me with this newT. I'm going to look over that awesome list posted on the featured stuff, and see. I may need to effing switch again.

Anyhow, when I left his office yesterday, I broke down completely on the way home. I had to pull over it was so intense. I was just so angry at oldT and my father and at myself. So much pain and tears consumed me last night for some reason. I guess I'm just so tired of all this stress. And I left her office worse off than I arrived.

Not sure if this is the place to do all this venting of everyday stuff. Maybe I should private message you? Just let me know. I could talk about this all day if I let myself, but I wouldn't want to clog up the forum with my rambles.

AH, really your words are awesome, I'm going to re-read your stuff and really let it sink in. Looking forward to hear more from you.

K

8/2/148:52 AM

kMember

p.s. I changed my display name to K - quicker than all the numbers.

8/2/149:12 AM

kMember

AH - thanks again for your reply. I love the nurse trying to perform heart surgery - that is a perfect analogy. Again, I can't describe how helpful you are being. I'm very grateful. I read your post in the sensitive forum, and it is absolutely reprehensible what your old T did. I feel for you and the pain and confusion that came from it. Maybe some of your healing can come from continuously and openly sharing your experience here. I know it has for sure helped me!

8/2/145:23 PM

kMember

I want to list the things that I'm feeling with regards to this erotic transference. I want to see if anyone out there has felt the same. Some things I know most have felt.

1. Shameful and disgusted with yourself
2. Rejected
3. Egotistical because you feel rejected
4. Perverse
5. Hopeless
6. Extreme sadness and emptiness
7. Irrational
8. Confusion from feeling irrational
9. Obsessed with thoughts of the T
10.Aching longing to be near the T
11.Embarrassed about yearning for T
12.Feeling out of control
13.Feeling like you cannot have a normal day or conversation where you don't bring it up to a friend.
14.Feeling completely consumed.
15.Feeling like you're going mad.

Maybe it's due to the weekend and I'm not busy at work today which is prime time for images and thoughts of my T to consume my brain. It is so debilitating and frustrating. Today was hard. I'm praying for the day that I get control of this.

I'm trying not to use anger and negativity towards her to get over this. I'm trying not to hate her for what she did to me. I'm trying not to drink my thoughts away. I'm trying not to get over her by sleeping around. I want to face this so this doesn't ever happen again. I want to forgive her. I realize she has issues too. But I cannot allow myself to feel sorry for her. I want her out of my head forever.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness writing. Just gotta let it out.

K

affinityMember

(((K)))

I can't believe I didn't see this post earlier! First off, welcome to the forums! You're in a good place here.

Second, erotic transference is one of my main struggles in therapy. I talk about it a lot. I've felt most of those feelings in your list. Let me just say, this is an extremely common experience for survivors of child sex abuse. Just understanding and accepting that ET comes with the territory can go a long way in easing the shame and obsession.

I was very fortunate to enter therapy for the first time with a T who has 4 decades of experience in treating adult survivors of abuse. His skill and compassion comes across very strongly. Sometimes I just sit and marvel. Transference issues can get really sticky, yet he handles it without breaking a sweat. That's why I encourage people dealing with this kind of stuff to seek out a highly experienced T. It makes a huge difference.

I certainly understand the obsession and feeling like I'm going mad. Been there several times. There are several things I've found that help:

1. A prayer my T taught me: "Take my will and my life, guide me in my recovery, show me how to live." I say this to myself whenever the thoughts become overwhelming, and it often stops them.

2. Meditation - clearing my mind and not allowing my thoughts to wander. It helps to go outside and just force myself to observe things: flowers, bugs, clouds, etc. If I keep focused on observation, my mind stays clear.

3. Music that feeds different thoughts. It's easy to obsess when listening to a romantic song, but not so easy when listening to a religious song.

4. Relaxation. I'm much more likely to obsess when I'm tired, emotionally stressed, or bored. Sometimes just taking a hot bath or watching a good movie can keep the obsession at bay for a while.

One thing my T has taught me is that when thoughts and feelings become this persistent and overwhelming, it means that your inner self is communicating some sort of need. Your mind may tell you that this need is sex, but that's almost always a mask for something else. The trick is to dig deep and recognize the real, healthy need that you're longing to have met. Then you can go about trying to get it fulfilled.

I know this is extremely painful stuff, and you're going through such a tough transition period in your personal life. Be gentle with yourself.

kMember

Hello Affinity,

Thank you so much for you reply. And many many thanks to your helpful tips. I will practice them starting now. I'm sorry you too have are going through this painful process. I know each day gets better. Even though I hate that you went through it, it's good to know I'm not alone in my feelings and obsessions.

Last Friday, I decided once and for all to send her an email to have MY formal closing session. I told her how she hurt me and gave explicit examples of how she crossed boundaries. I let her know how much damage she did to me, especially by just casting me away. I also told her that I'm moving on and the I forgive her. And I told her to please do her part and get trained on how to handle these situations so no one else gets hurt. I told her that this pain is unbearable and that I wish it on no one. Then I said that closing my email with her is closing my loop with her. I knew she wouldn't respond. But I was glad to confront her with what she did to me.

I found myself the past couple days not being able to release her memory from my mind. Although it's not as bad as before, I still have searing fantasies of her and I that seem to walk into my mind almost unannounced. Then I found myself looking at her instagram feed like a creeper..ugh.

I agree that there is some unfulfilled need that I must figure out. It can't be sex. It's just love and safety, I'm sure. It's almost as if there are two sides of me. It's like I am automatically or physiologically drawn to sexual thoughts, but my heart or brain aren't part of it.

That is good advice about finding a T that is very experienced at dealing with clients that are in this situation and the baggage the comes with it. I'm afraid my new T, although says he has dealt with it, isn't very engaging. But then I think maybe it's just because he's not the bright glimmering hope that she was. I don't know. But I've learned enough to know that I can bring that up with him. I'm going to give a couple more tries with him, and if I'm still feeling stale, I'll have to find someone else.

Anyhow, sorry for the rambling. And again, I really appreciate your post. I'm sending you love and light on your path to healing.

K

8/12/1410:41 PM

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