Hi Quilter,

I can't help but think that the blog must not have been that private if it was on the internet for everybody to read. I wouldn't feel bad about reading it. It it wasn't meant to be public, it would have never been put on the Net.

MH,

I disagree with your T about the searching being connected to fear and trust. I think its more of an innate curiosity to know things about the people we are close with. We know intimate details about our friends and our families and even acquaintances. and yet we know so very little about the people who know the most about us. It's natural to want to know more.

I think every T should have a Bio sheet that they give out to each new patient. Lists favorite tv shows, foods, hobbies, songs, etc. Nothing too personal like home address or kids names (gotta leave something for us to figure out on our own!), but just enough to show us that they are unique...that they are real people too.

Hi Quilter,

I'm in an interesting situation with this at the moment because I have had just one introductory session with my new t, but I searched for stuff on him online when I first contemplated seeing him, months ago. Now that I am waiting for our therapy to properly begin, I find I am regularly going back over the sites that are out there - even though we have only just met, and I don't have an attachment to him per se. I guess I have an attachment to my hopes for the therapy, and I feel anxious about whether those hopes will be fulfilled. I look at the stuff to sort of quell anxiety, to focus the 'wondering' on something tangible. I also suspect that it's somehow part of forming an internal relationship with him.

One of the things I found back then was a little personal - a listing for a social group meet-up site that listed some of his interests. It disturbed me because his interests are eerily close to my own, and that's a big part of why I decided not to work with him at that stage. It seemed like transference gunpowder! I guess he knows this material is out there; the listing has a photo of him and it mentions he's a counsellor, so there's no attempt at hiding. I'm not sure if I will mention it or not. It may well come up, because I know because of this that he knows more about some of the things in my life than the average person would. But even though intellectually I feel like it was fine and normal for me to research him in this way, I feel embarrassed about knowing what I do - so I might be inclined to play dumb.

Do you have reason to think your T's blog was supposed to be anonymous? Was it hard for you to find?

Jones

PS Hi MH! It's great to see you around more lately!

it is the responsibility of your T to protect himself or herself. if there was a whole freaking blog out there and you found it, you were doing nothing wrong. your T dropped the ball if in fact he or she was not telling you things about themself and had something like that out there.
talk about all this stuff in therapy. grist for the mill.
i got into my T's facebook page. she should have made it private. she was floored when i told her i found it. they should protect themselves. if they feel violated then dont assume its bec. u made a mistake. it is not your fault.

I have searched for info on all the Ts I have ever spoken to. Some have lots of stuff out there and some very little. NewT has next to nothing out there. I did find his doctoral thesis in my school library and read all 130+ pages of it. I found it fascinating... especially the dedications/acknowledgements. About the 4th session we had I told him I read it. He was surprised but not at all upset. We discussed it (the topic of the thesis) and have discussed it again since. I figured I might as well test him LOL.

With oldT there is a ton of stuff out there and I would NEVER have told him about any of it. He would totally freak out and I could not take the chance. I still search for stuff on him. It's that attachment need to be close and to know our attachment figure. They know so much about us and we know so little and can't ask too many questions. Although, newT has said I could ask him questions and he would answer if he could. I have asked some slightly personal stuff and he has been very open. I liked that and I knew he was working hard to allow me to trust again.

My feeling is that if it's out there on the public web then it's fair game.

TN

Ahh! I knew I would feel 100 times better if I posted here. So glad to know that other people have done the same kind of internet searching as me. I guess I understand that whatever information she has posted on the internet, she has to know is public on some level. I never, ever feel like I would talk to her about it. Those of you who have talked to their t's about information they found online- has it been helpful or not?
Mad Hatter- that is interesting what your T. said about the searching being a lack of trust. I can definitely see it from that angle. I wonder after each and every session- does she like me? Am I doing the right thing? Is she helping me? In a way, maybe the addiction of searching all the time gives ME the control over the situation. And yes, you can congratulate me on the find. Even though I feel a little weird about it, I am proud of my searching skills too. Anyone want to hire a private detective?
Lady Grey- totally agree with you too! In every other relationship we know every bit of gossip about others lives, or can find out quite easily. I am always making small talk and asking how people are, what's new, etc. (mostly because I don't want to talk about myself). But in this relationship, the tables are turned and I won't ask T. any of this, although she knows so so much about me. (One time, she did tell me about her kids, including their names, quite easily. The interaction just made me feel bad though because I already knew this information from searching online!)
Jones- there is information about my t. (such as on facebook) that is very readily available and I don't feel bad about. Mostly I just feel like she's stupid for not putting better privacy settings on. But this particular blog that I found took quite a detective work to find and while she has to know people can find it, it is private compared to facebook or other similar links. My t. is young and very into social networking and the like, so there is a TON of information online about her.
So since it is on the internet, I shouldn't feel guilty? I feel like it is similar to if she left a journal on the desk in her office and left the room, and I read it. I think this is why I feel so horrible about it.

You are not alone here. I searched my T when I first started seeing her. Needed to make sure she wasn't a crazy nutcase.

But I find that I search for stuff now when I'm missing her or I'm upset about something. It comforts me. Of course there isn't much there so I don't have the knowledge that you found out.

But I think it is an attachement thing.

I am so happy to read this thread and hear that others have done research on their T's.

I will admit that I have done alot of research. He does a pretty good job of hiding stuff now but in the past he didn't. I have found some stuff that I bet he doesn't know is out there. It doesn't help that part of my job is finding people who don't want to be found. I am a google ninja.

Whomever's T' suggested it is a trust/security issue, I think hit the nail on the head. I know that I do alot more research when I am feeling insecure about therapy. It ususally leaves me feeling worse though. I feel gulity about doing it and like i am violating him. He is a boundary ninja, and I know anytime I have asked for information about him or indicated something about him , he gets this look. I can almost see the red flags going up.

Anyways i am glad to hear we all do it,

CNC

Oh yeah, **CNC** is just so much easier I don't think we've officially met so "Hi"
It's interesting how many of us, of hugely differing ages, do this Someone mentioned googling for info on their T when they were feeling low and such - which is what I do - it a **sort of** connection attempt
We're a such interesting bods eh?
Morgs

I just remembered these two cartoons which relate to this subject.

Enjoy!

http://talesoftherapy.wordpres...ia-therapy-tales-25/

http://talesoftherapy.wordpres...do-therapy-tales-61/

Love the cartoons!! Those are so funny CNC!! It seems like a lot of us google our t. for a kind of connection when we are feeling low or unsure about our attachment. Has anyone come up with a replacement behavior that fits that tricky feeling of wanting to know more, wanting to feel connected?
I just wish there was something else I could do that would satisfy my feelings but not leave me feeling so guilty.
Does anyone try to limit their time spent searching? I don't let myself search close to an appointment because I feel like if I was reading info. right before a session it would feel too weird. Other than that, I want to do it every time I am on the internet, and I let myself do it maybe every fifth or sixth time I come on. How often does everyone else search?

Thank God for the delete button.

I probably search on average maybe once a month.. I dont concider it a problem.. except that it normally makes me really happy and excited at first and then I just get really depressed about my life after it sets in that my T has this whole life that I can never be a part of...... saddddd

Love the cartoons!

I've googled my T. Not much out there other than her business website. Honestly, I could find a lot more and probably quite a bit if I tried much because (and I've told T this) I can find just about anything on the internet if it's out there. I have found a few things, but nothing that is a big deal. I mostly did this back toward the beginning when I was more mistrustful and wondering if I was putting my life in the hands of a lunatic.

I doubt seriously that she has looked me up. I would venture to guess that she thinks about me way way way less than I think about her and that she wouldn't bother wasting her time.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:

quote:

I doubt seriously that she has looked me up. I would venture to guess that she thinks about me way way way less than I think about her and that she wouldn't bother wasting her time.

Why the sad faces MH? It's true. There is no way that T thinks about me as much as I think about her. It's the nature of the relationship. I have one therapist and she has many clients. I know she does think of me outside of sessions because we've talked about it and she makes a point to tell me, "I thought of you the other day when...." type things, but still I know I think of her more.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad Hatter:
i know you are right, STRM, but it just feels sad to me. i'm still yearning to be the center of the universe to somebody.

I know. I didn't say it doesn't hurt. It does. I'm just saying that I know it to be true. She thinks of me, sure, but she is much more the center of my universe than I am hers and that is the way it will always be. Sadly, I've never been the center of anyone's universe (except I guess my children at one point and I come close with my husband) and I'm not going to be.

I'm sorry you have yearnings for that as well. It's hard.

quote:

i know you are right, STRM, but it just feels sad to me. i'm still yearning to be the center of the universe to somebody.

I'm sorry MH, I know the feeling. But not just anyone will do... what we really want was to be the center of our parents universe, the way we were supposed to be as children but never were. Therapy is an approximation of that situation but not really the same. It can never really be the same because we are no longer children. It sucks it really does. It just seems that therapy, even when it's good, is just never enough.

Hugs
TN

Hi MH
I am sadly most definately not AG but i would like to tell you my experience anyway. I seem to have verbal diahorrea today so why not...

I too have graduated from therapy and for me, yes the yearning has gone away and did go away. I feel as if the black hole has been plugged and my life force is no longer leaking out and draining away. It took a long time to happen and then happened in an instant and it changed everything. I have a suspicion that i finally learnt that i was important to me and so while i still love, love love being special and important and cared for, the black holeness of it is gone. And it had far more to do with how i related to me than anything my T did or didn't do.

Pan

T1 is very good friends with someone famous so there are tons of pictures of the two of them together on the internet. It's starting to drive me nuts! I've gotten to the point where I am checking newspapers online for the latest pics of them several times a week. I've really got to stop!

pandora, wow. that is great. do you have any idea what helped you the most do get there? what did it? congratulations.

MH,
I'm glad Pan isn't me, because I think she gave you a perfect answer. I just wanted to agree with her that it is something that you get past and can heal from. Wanting to be special was a deep theme that ran through most of my work with my T and lay close to the heart of the grief I eventually needed to face to heal.

We were talking once about the bond and being able to trust it. How when there is an attachment you carry the person in your heart and they carry you in theirs (it's a quote from an ee cummings poem). I told him that it was difficult for me to believe he carried me in his heart and he asked how I could check that? I drew a complete blank and he told me I could call him and see that he remembered me. We went on to talk about people leaving gifts in his office to leave part of themselves there and how the blanket he had given me provided tangible proof of the relationship. That over the years, he had received so many that he couldn't display them all, but even then they were taken care of and treated with respect.

Now, my T meant all of that conversation to be comforting and reassuring, but here's what I heard (after stewing over it for a week between sessions). I told him that I felt like he dodged the question about carrying me in his heart. That what I wanted to hear was "AG, of course I love you and I carry you in my heart." And that when he told me about all the gifts, what I heard was that I was just one in a VERY LONG line of clients stretching over 30 years and he offered me nothing that he wouldn't offer to anyone who walked through his door. He told me that he realized that it was painful, because being carried in his heart wasn't the same thing as being carried in my parents heart. That the ambiguity of the theraputic relationship made it difficult to believe in the reality of the caring, that if what he gave was available to so many people how could it be real? Then he asked me to think about the fact that there was an infinite source of love that flowed through him and allowed him to truly care about all those people but that didn't replace what I had missed with my parents.

So I came face to face with the fact that what my T gave me was very real but it also was most definitely NOT enough. I knew and trusted him well enough at that point to KNOW that he would not withold from me anything in his power to give which I really needed. And he was clearly recognizing the need each of us had to feel that special. And it was always in that gap between what I so deeply desired and what I could actually get, that the recognition of my loss lay. So I grieved very deeply and for a long time over not having been special, of being the center, of being more important than everyone else, or at least as important as a few others (assuming siblings). And the mourning eventually helped me heal the loss. I didn't have what I needed from my parents in this area, but I understand now my own worth. That while I will never be special to anyone in quite the same way you should be with your parents, I am loved and valued by people around me. And now I don't have to keep looking for something I can't find, which has freed me up to appreciate the love and attachment I do have. What my parents did not give me no longer defines who I am. Nor did not getting it have anything to do with who I was or am. And everyone eventually has to come to grips with the fact that outside their own family (if they had it there) not everyone thinks they're quite so special, so I'm kind of on par with everyone else.

This is so hard to describe the process. I so agree with what Pan said about it taking a long time to happen until it suddenly clicked. The abyss is gone and there is no longer that feeling that I can be destroyed by the fact that I didn't have that, I survived it and in some ways are stronger for it.

So I can honestly say, here at the end, that I can still deeply mourn not being able to have something beyond therapy with my T (I'm still working my way through that part), I can now trust that what happened between my T and I was very real and very deep and mattered to both of us. To me more than him, he is much closer to the center of who I am, then I am to who he is, but that doesn't change the fact that he really loved me. And that's enough to go on with.

AG

AG Just wanted to say that was a beautiful response. Thanks for sharing that and I'm so happy to see you back posting.

TN

AG, welcome back, and that was suberp, you are a master of communication and express everything so beautifully. I hope you are feeling better, it sounds as if you have been really ill.

Hi Da Rock, we haven't offically met yet so hello.

I think AG's reply described it so well. There seemed to be some turning point when i accepted that the picture perfect world i had designed in my head wasn't real, that people didn't actually seem to care the way i needed to be cared for, and that no matter how good i was, how hard i tried it was never enough. I don't mean this to sound frivolous, but somehow by doubling over in the pain and grief of being so bereft and disappointed i realised i was mourning something that had never been there in the first place. And it was like waking up and for the first time being able to feel that what i had was actually enough. My T, friends, husband, and especially my family couldn't live up to the ideal i had created and it was that that was causing my pain.

So instead of wanting more from my T and at the same time not wanting too much and being confused about what i did actually want or not want i felt like i could finally see him and not just my own wishes and needs. That terrible pain of feared rejection and isolation became a bit more open and able to appreciate the love i was getting but because it wasn't a perfect match to my fairy tale version, was confusing and disappointing me. I learnt it in therpay but it applied to every relationship in my life. It is kind of what TN said, that even when therapy is good it is still not enough, that problem is my whole life felt like that.

Eeek, not sure if that is very clear but i hope it gives a glimpse of what i am trying to say.

Draggers and MH, yep, there is always hope, sometimes the only thing that keeps me going is the belief that it can be different.



And LG i am with draggers on that, the curiosity is killing me..

Pan

quote:

Originally posted by Pandora:

And LG i am with draggers on that, the curiosity is killing me..

Pan

T1 is best friends with a well-known female politician. They were on the cover of a few newspapers recently. They were friends long before the politician became famous. It's really not that exciting to me that she knows the politician, but it has been nice to get so many pics of T1. although it is driving me nuts....my internet searching has been a bit overboard lately!

Wow, LG, how did your T handle telling you that? Or did you find out for yourself? I can imagine that if my political affiliations were opposite to the politician's, I wouldn't be able to work with the T!!

J

quote:

Originally posted by Jones:
Wow, LG, how did your T handle telling you that? Or did you find out for yourself? I can imagine that if my political affiliations were opposite to the politician's, I wouldn't be able to work with the T!!

J

T1 told me. We share the same values, politics, etc. so it was not an issue for me that she is friends with this politician.

I usually wind down each session with T1 with some small chit chat after we schedule our next appointment. I asked what she was doing over the weekend, or if she had anything fun planned once and she mentioned her friend, the politician and told me about something interesting that they were going to be doing. T1 is very open with me. We have a long history together and I think she feels safe disclosing some details of her life. Like last week, for example...she told me that she and her lesbian lover have six cats together..one over the legal limit allowed for one house, lol. We got a good chuckle out of that as we talked about which cat she would most like to get rid of if they are ever forced to. apparently one of her partner's cats is not a nice kitty and T1 secretly wants to get rid of it, lol!

PLEASE DON'T QUOTE THIS POST, I WOULD LIKE TO GO BACK AND DELETE THESE DETAILS AOBUT T1 LATER. THANKS!!

Thanks Pan and AG for your thoughts on how you filled the bottomless pit. It gives me some hope that I can do it one day as well. I'm going to keep reading your posts.

LadyGrey I think it would be weird to see pictures of my T in a paper but it made me laugh to hear about her cats. I think it is great when T's can tell us about themselves outside of the room.

I have the same problem with searching my P. And sometimes I do it to my T but I am not as connected to her as I am to my P. I have searched facebook, became friends with his kids on there so I can see pics of him. I do daily searches because it is addicting and it makes me feel more connected. He does not like it but says there is not a lot he can do about it. I did tell him at one point put a picture of him on my phone that I got off the internet and felt bad and told him that I did it. He did ask me to delete it and said that it didnt like it. And then he told me that I should stop searching him and that it had nothing to do with him trying to hide anything but that it was for my own good cause I needed to learn to rely on my own strength to make it through difficult times and if it was bad enough to reach out to him instead of searching. But because of it being an addiction at some point I have to fight the urges.

But on the other hand I my old high school P I still email weekly. I admitted to him through email that I have searched him many times and that just recently found that his wife has a facebook account. I admitted I took a pic of him off of it and cropped his wife out of it and put it on my phone so I can see him any time. He was no upset or even bothered by it and told me that it is public information and that there is nothing he can do about it. And that if it was a big deal he would not have let her put it on the internet. He said if I felt like I needed the picture on my phone to have a connection with him that because I didnt stalk him to do it but used public information that it was fine with him. He is really cool about everything.

If I start feeling bad about something I found out then I just tell them and let them know what I found out and why I feel bad and why it bothers me and so far it has worked out good. But it is easier for me to tell the men I see. I have searched my female T once or twice just cause I am starting to feel connected to her and wanted more information but cant find anything but have not even told her I tried to. Im sure Ill get around to it.

But what I have learned is it is better to just be honest and tell them so that you dont live with the guilt and they can reassure you that its okay. And if they really dont want someone to know the information then they should try harder to keep the info private.

Thanks for the background LG - very low key and it's really nice that she is relaxed about herself and her life details.

Pippi, always nice to see you!

J

I only googled the ex C's name AFTER the awful termination. And found her address!!

I have googled sweetP several times, but there is NOTHING on him anywhere, so I always try about once a week thinking maybe something will come up one day.

I am worried that there is a lot about me on the internet and my blog is there, but hopefully NOT traceable to me as a real person with a real name. fingers crossed.


I think it would be ethical to tell your T which blog you can access as she may feel embarassed that her client's read it. That seems only fair to me.

I think if I were to ever shop for another T again, I would factor in their name when shopping around. I'd only hire someone with a really obscure name. It's so hard to find stuff on people with very common names. Too much crap to sift through. And definitely no T's with the same name as movie stars or singers.

i've changed my mind about this. my advice is, if you google, never ever ever admit it to your T. not worth the problems it may cause. i thought i was doing a good thing to admit to my T what i had learned. i thought honesty was best policy. T seemed nonchalant at first but she was hiding her true feelings. now has turned on me big time. in her eyes i am transformed into this freak obsessive monster who has violated boundaries to obtain her private information. now its my fault that she doesnt feel safe

MH,
I'm so sorry to hear that, it sounds like things are not going well. If you feel able to I would want to hear about what's going on so you can get some support. I've missed you.

AG

thanks AG. i've been trying for past 30 some hours to post but the words won't come. but just wanted to say i appreciate your invitation. maybe later...

(((((MH)))))) Take whatever time you need.

(((MH)))

Thinking of you.

Hey MH, it's good to see you. Hope you can feel free to say whatever words you need. xxJ

MH,
I'm so sorry you are feeling yuck. I hope you can talk about it when you are ready. Thinking of you...
seablue

I agree with you, June.

I appreciate the hugs and encouragement. A lot.

So my T asked me today to promise never to google her again. I said I had not done anything illegal (she had previously accused me of "hacking"). She said just because it is legal doesn't mean its not a boundary violation. She said it feels wrong in her gut, because she doesn't give out her private information to anyone and it should be her choice whether to share it.

She also thinks I am the only client she's ever had who has "cyber-stalked" her.

And she admitted her reaction is strong in part because of death threats she has received - two threats last week from someone(s) who wants her to stop treating a particular client. If any of you remember me writing about this before, it is the client who is trying to break free from a cult.

She said I have taken away her sense of security, because before I came along with my googling success then she had no idea it was possible to find out so much information about herself. She didn't think people could easily find out where she lives or who her family members are. So now she worries more about these cult members being able to find her and carry out their threats. She lamented that now she knew her children weren't safe either.

I said I was just the messenger, not the enemy. She said she knows I am not a threat to her. But yet she brings this situation up as a reason for not sharing her information. So it still feels like she is projecting her fear and anger about these death threats onto me and making me the bad guy.

I tried to explain why I would want to google her. I said that I sorta look upon her as a substitute mother. Imagine that your mother refused to tell you where she lived or who her relatives were? You would feel hurt for being excluded. It would feel like she was keeping you at a distance.

Now, my left brain knows that a therapist is different than a parent. So please don't give me a lecture about this. It won't help convince the lost, hurt child in me who doesn't see it logically that way at all. That part of me can't see why I would be treated so differently than her real kids. I've already cringed when I tried to explain it to a friend and she responded with, "Well, she's a professional, right?" Meaning, don't I understand that professionals must stay detached? Well, how do you explain transference to someone who has never done serious therapy before?

I agreed not to google anymore. T insists I don't need it to be close to her. But I feel I will never truly be close to her as long as she is unknown to me. I feel a loss that is crushing.