Liese I'm not sure where your T is going with this list he wants. I would think his first priority would be to help you with intimacy... to get comfortable with it before pushing you to BE intimate in conversation with your dh. I think you first need to come to terms with your struggle with self-esteem and your depression. And from what you say ... you feel that you don't have any right to ask for what you need and that needs to be worked through in therapy... the place where it's supposed to be safe to ask for what you need and safe to experiment with intimacy and in building your self-esteem. Self-esteem is what comes from others, through our relationship with others and is reflected back to us from them. I don't think you can just go to your husband with a list and expect anything to get accomplished if you, yourself are not in a good place to handle this.

Of course, I could be wrong and he just wants you to sit and think about what would make you happy and what you need so that he can get to know more about you and how to help you. In other words, what he can do to help you grow enough to get to that place where you are comfortable in asking to have your needs met.

Can you tell us more about what he said to you in session today? How did you feel coming away from the session?

TN

I too cringe when my husband walks in the door. Also when I turn into the drive and see his vehicle. It's an awful feeling.

But through my therapy I have learned to speak up and ask for what I want. I started with simple things like where to order pizza from, or that I got to choose the TV program to watch. I couldn't even do those things. i kept practicing and trying with bigger things.

It has helped our relationship a lot. It feels really good to feel like I have some power too. I finally figured, what do I have to lose?

Hi tacy99 and Tn,

tacy99, do you still cringe when your husband walks through the door? I'm glad it's helped that you can ask for what you want more. Does your husband go to therapy too?

TN, I'm not sure either where he is going with this but I just think I'm so hard to work with. I can't forumlate anything in my head. I had no idea what was wrong with my relationship with my husband, had no idea I was not getting out of bed in the morning to avoid him. I've only been able to face these things recently.

My T did encourage me a couple of weeks ago to go out to dinner with my husband to work on the relationship. I gave that some thought this week and realized, I'm so angry at him ... I don't want to go out to dinner with ... and so I was able to go into therapy today and say that to my T - whereas I couldn't have said that two weeks or even one week ago. How could i be so stupid about myself? Why is this all so hard for me?????

And, so today, his response was that I could work on a list and we'll go over it together before I talk to my husband. And, that we would talk about my list, and try to sort through which things are legitimately my husband's fault and which things might be my own issues. I just feel like this is all so painstakingly hard. I'm so clueless. Do you feel that way TN? You always verbalize everything so beautifully about the way you feel.

Sometimes I do still cringe........but not as often as before. When I started therapy I thought the "therapy" lingo was a bunch of bs. Like the "finding your voice" "speaking your truth" a right to ask for what you want and need" But it really is all so true.

My husband does not go to therapy. I try to use what I learn to sublimimally teach him.

Hi tacy99 and welcome to the Board. I look forward to getting to know you better.

Liese... I am just a really verbal person. Always was. I also read A LOT about this stuff and as newT says... I'm very psychologically minded and intuitive. I told him I had to be to survive. He says I did more than survive. He says nice things to me LOL.

It seems like you are making progress in understanding your avoidance of your dh and even that you are angry with him. NewT says anger is not always anger it's what is covering up other feelings like fear, shame, insecurity etc. You have to look underneath the anger.

Why do you think you are hard to work with? Why is this so hard? Because therapy is VERY hard and not for the faint of heart. You are brave in just going to therapy and bringing your feelings to your T. You don't have to figure it all out... that is what he is there for. I think you first have to identify what you are feeling and if that seems easy, it's not. It can get complicated.

I was pretty clueless in the beginning and then thought I had a handle on things... evidently not as I got booted from my therapy and I STILL don't really know why.

Hang in there Liese. It will get easier in time with the more you learn and experience.

TN

Thanks tacy99, TN and Blanket Girl for your support and advice. I like the idea of just working on one thing. It does seem overwhelming to focus on everything. Why is it so hard to be honest about our feelings?

Hi Blanket Girl,

You are right about that. I need to do things on my timetable not my T's. Though he does know that weekends have gotten awfully strained in my house. My husband is walking on tippy toes trying to please me when all I want right now is for him to go away. I slept in the basement last week (which I never do). I told my husband the next day that I was worried he wouldn't be able to find me and replied that he figured "it wasn't the day you told me you were leaving me" ... so things are a bit strained at home. I think my T is just trying to help me open up the communication instead of everyone tip toeing around.

The only thing that really bothers me about what my T is saying is that I guess once we start talking about our relationship, that we should give it 3 or 6 months time to see if our feelings change. That doesn't seem like a lot of time to me, considering we have four kids (the youngest being 3) and a business together. Although, I've been less involved in the business lately. But I guess I need to ask him why the 3 or 6 month limit. Sometimes, I think that if I write the list of the perfect spouse, it will actually be a completely different person than my husband. And, so I guess I just really want him to be a different person and don't really accept him the way he is. I always think, if he went to therapy and worked on himself. But he doesn't seem so inclined. And it's not really fair to him. Sigh .... I have to keep working on this.

Hi Liese,

I don't have much to offer in the way of advice, but just wanted to say it sounds like we're in the same (or at least very similar) boats. I could have written much of your posts myself. Especially the following:

quote:

I'm not sure why I'd be entitled to make demands when I'm no prize.

quote:

If my husband and I split, is my life going to be easier? I don't think so. Will I be happier? Who the hell knows. At least maybe I will want to get out of bed in the morning. Maybe I will want to open my eyes in the morning. I cringe when my husband walks in the door. Isn't that terrible?

quote:

I just think I'm so hard to work with.

quote:

Sometimes, I think that if I write the list of the perfect spouse, it will actually be a completely different person than my husband. And, so I guess I just really want him to be a different person and don't really accept him the way he is. I always think, if he went to therapy and worked on himself. But he doesn't seem so inclined. And it's not really fair to him.

quote:

My husband is walking on tippy toes trying to please me when all I want right now is for him to go away.

Yesterday I saw my individual T. The session ended with me talking about all of this...again...how my husband and I just don't "get" each other...one thing I keep wondering is if what I want is "unreasonable" and based in what I didn't get as a kid...which is why I want to try to do grief work and see if that lowers my expectations of my husband so they're more in line with who he actually is...but according to my individual T, what I want is all good and reasonable...and we've gone round and round about how I feel like I'm stuck in the marriage...and I just ended with our couples T because I felt that he wasn't hearing me either...and at the end of the session, my individual T kind of asked me, so now where do you go from here? That question keeps coming back to me...I feel like I've tried very hard to have those intimate conversations with my husband...he changes a little bit for a little while, until I stop pestering him...and then it all goes back to what it was before. And we've tried couples therapy twice now. The second time did go better than the first...MUCH better, actually. But still, we're far from done. So I don't know where to go from here.

To put it as briefly as possible, I either want someone I want (meaning my husband has to change)...or I want to change who I want (meaning I have to change). Does that make sense?

I really like your T's idea of your making the list and then sorting out which are your issues and which are his. I wish our couples T had done that with us. I'd love to hear updates about your experiences with the couples therapy, if you feel like sharing. But I think you are right about this being incredibly difficult. It really is. So I hope you can keep going with this T...it sounds like he really knows what he's doing...and be as kind and patient with yourself as possible.

Hugs,
SG

HI SG,

So good to hear from you again. I'm sorry to hear you are having the same problems. Maybe I can help you with your list, if you want. Or your private T. Maybe you can ask him if it's something you can do together. I would be happy to help you with it, if you want to PM me.

I've asked my husband to go to therapy but he won't. So I do this all alone. My husband really had a bad childhood so I can't blame him for not wanting to face the pain but on the other hand, he often makes irrational decisions that could and have put us in very precarious financial positions. He is a lawyer but has trouble working for other people. So he started his own practice about 7 years ago. Well, about 4 years ago, we were penniless and he was running around, helping everyone with their problems and I swear to you SG we were this close to being in a homeless shelter. He's gotten some better but he does have that rescue tendency. He just lent someone $2500.00 without asking me and we haven't even paid our taxes yet this year. So he's not abusive in a physical sense but we definitely lack for emotional and financial security. And I want that security for our kids. I know the economy is tough and a lot of people are struggling but he causes many of our problems. I don't think he sees how self-destructive he is. He's like a spinning top, off spinning by himself, and not very connected to me and the kids. He comes home and sometimes tries to connect but is more often intrusive because he himself hasn't laid the groundwork.

Our kids do fine academically but struggle a little socially. And, that burden, in addition to the house and the yard is all on my shoulders, while he is out there chasing after windmills. (He is making NY accessible for the disabled - which I love but ... he needs to take care of us too.) (And of course, the financial burden because he really hasn't been very good at managing his law practice). Not only does he not really help around the house but he leaves stuff all over the place. I want to have a nice home so the kids will be proud to have friends over but he just doesn't seem to get that. Or he does and he just doesnt care enough about it. So it's really just a big mess. I really believe he'd have to have years and years of therapy in order to be the husband I want so I guess that means I have to really think about what it might mean to be alone. And is that fair of me? If he went to therapy and gave it a shot, would that at least make me a little happier? I will have to get a job of my own in order to survive if we do split up. And I can barely manage what I have.