Irritations

spagirlMember

Ever have a conversation with someone that you feel worse after talking to them? That's my Mom.

My question has to be "Why am I addicted to connecting with her when I know I will feel worse afterwards?"

Sometimes it's a truly bad situation, but this morning, it was just a normal "yucky" feeling that is most difficult to shake off (which is why I am writing about it now!).

I wake up having had amazingly great dreams and feeling lots of love. It's early for me, before 8:00 am, but I'm energized, so I get up and begin my ritual of coffee making. After the coffee is done, I have a bright idea ... "Let's take one of the cats outside and I can have my coffee with them on the patio at my new table and chairs"! I pick Seven because she is little and hasn't been outside much. All is well. We are both excited for the treat. After a cup, I come back inside and (hesitantly) decide it's time to call Mom and tell her where I've been (for shock value). (PS - I typically call her every morning anyway.)

It's not that she started an argument or anything, it's just that I feel she sucks all the positive energy from me (for a while, til I rebuild, like I'm doing now). Don't know why exactly. Maybe it's what she chooses to say. Like yesterday (yes, I'm still brewing about yesterday). Yesterday I had had another fortuitous experience when my periodontist was able to see me as a walk-in because my stitches were coming loose and instead of going back on Tuesday, we were able to remove them then! "Yippee"! So, I called my Mom to tell her the good news - that my stitches were out and I didn't have to go back for two months (yippee)! Somehow the conversation turned to my cell phone message, which she called "stupid". I jokingly told her that I "never call her voice messages bad names" and she went off ... "Well, your message is just SILLY!!!" And it was the tone of her voice, like she was seriously trying to make that a complaint to start an argument. WEIRD.

So this morning, it wasn't even that bad. But, I've noticed how I never feel such a good, warm, loving feeling whenever I talk to her. If I call in the AM, she comments on the time. If I say I was outside between 8 and 9 this morning, she comments "you were outside for an HOUR"? I know she is "only trying to make conversation" (as she puts it), but it's annoying. She wants to quantify everything. Other times she is looking to place blame somewhere. "WHY are your stitches coming loose?" As if I DID something WRONG to CAUSE them to come loose. Never thinking that they just generally would come loose after some time.

I know these things are minor, but the constant annoyance factor is like Chinese Water Torture - over time it just wears you down.

Don't know what to do about it. Not call? That's a bad idea, then she gets the Martyr Syndrome. Call and ignore her? Probably better.

Well, that is my rant for today.

5/15/097:03 AM

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holzMember

Hi SG

** I hope we're cool!? **

Your story with your mom reminds me of where my partner and I are right now. I feel about her and our conversations like you do about your mom. I can understand how frustrated you must be with it all, and with not really knowing how to respond to it.
All I can think to say is be patient with her, we only have one mom and even if she makes us crazy we still love them (well for some of us that's buried wayyyy down deep, but it's there). One day when our mother's are gone, we tend to miss all the bickering and wish that you could call them one more time just to hear her complain about something or comment that you spent a whole hour outside. It's silly really. I say keep calling her and try to let her comments roll off your back (I know that's easier said than done), then rant about it here or to your T to get it off your chest.

Seven is a cute name for a cat, is she your 7th cat or was that just a fun name to give her? Sorry, I had to ask

Be well!

Holly

5/15/097:40 AM

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catgirlMember

SG,
Seven is a cute name for a cat. One of my friends had a cat named cinco. She was the fifth cat of the litter.

In my completely unprofessional opinion, it sounds like you and your mom have some enmeshment issues. It sounds like its hard for you to set boundaries and uphold them, and it's hard for your mom to respect you. The good news is, as you go through therapy, you'll learn how to deal with this. I can see how right now it's frustrating, because you're not sure how to handle it, and you're afraid of hurting your mom.

My therapist recommends having limited and short contact with my family of origin, because they always knock me off of my stability. What if you called her less frequently? If she tries to lay a guilt trip, you could just say something like, "Well, I'm calling you now, and it's nice to talk to you." Just my idea on the matter. If you're not ready to take this step right now, it's okay. As your awareness grows, you will understand what it is that you need to do to best take care of yourself. That's why therapy is so great.

It shows growth on your part that you are now recognizing that she sucks your energy, and you can see the negativity that she displays toward you! Think about all of the years that you didn't even recognize this. You're on your way to awareness and understanding, and that's exciting.

catgirl

5/15/099:08 AM

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holzMember

Hi,

quote:
My therapist recommends having limited and short contact with my family of origin, because they always knock me off of my stability. What if you called her less frequently? If she tries to lay a guilt trip, you could just say something like, "Well, I'm calling you now, and it's nice to talk to you."

My P suggested this to me too for the same reason. It's good advice, hard to maintain, but good nonetheless.

HB

5/15/0911:34 AM

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flickaMember

Hi Spagirl.

Your comment:My question has to be "Why am I addicted to connecting with her when I know I will feel worse afterwards?"

From my own experience I think that it might be because you are always hoping that things will be different and that she will change.. I think that you have a big desire to connect with your mom...after all she is your mom..

Best, Flicka

5/15/097:31 PM

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spagirlMember

Yes, Mom's are difficult to manage. On the one hand we love each other to our core (and beyond), but we sometimes (maybe a lot of the time) don't LIKE each other much.

My Mom and I have had such a long, hard road together, starting from before birth when she was intending to give me up for adoption because she wasn't married to my dad at the time of pregnancy (it was the 60's). And ever since I have been a co-star in her life story. In the town I grew up in I still introduce myself as "Lois' daughter".

Our irritations with each other have watered down over the last 44 years, but there still isn't a sense of comfort, really. Most days we manage to get along fine, cordially, "What did you have for dinner?", "What are you going to watch on TV?", those sorts of "conversations" --- go much deeper, and we have conflict.

It is tough when you want to feel respected, cherished and LIKED by someone so important to you. I guess all relationships are like this. Well, actually, I hope they aren't. I will assume that there are people who can get along, never fight, agree more than they disagree, and show respect, compassion and care for the person they say they love (you should see her Hallmark cards! But put that into her own words, no.)

I am thankful that through the ages we have come to a sort of truce. It might not be the warm fuzzies I was longing for, but neutrality is better than extremes.

5/16/0911:56 AM

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spagirlMember

UGH. She just can't help her (f***ing) self!

Yet again, I phone her to tell her something trivial and we have a normal chat for a while, then as we are hanging up she has to get a dig in. Don't know why. It's like she can't be complete if she stays nice.

I will ignore this one. (and call her some bad names)

Back to my happy life!

5/17/097:44 AM

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spagirlMember

I think I will just use this as my morning blog when Mom irritates me. Luckily, she gives me lots of material.

We've talked before about how it's hard to comment or judge someone's post because the reader never knows the whole story. It's that way with my relationship with my Mom (and I'd assume LOTS of other people, as well - especially women and their mothers). So when she says something that most people would hear as benign, I hear it as part of the load of comments she has said to me over the years. The pile just gets bigger and bigger.

I was thinking about the words she uses even when she is describing my place in the family - it's "We" and "You", as in "We have tried to tell YOU ... blah, blah, blah." Which only serves to make me feel even that much more separate/cut off/distant. I know I don't have much in common with my family (which currently consists of my mom, her sister & husband, their son, his wife and their two kids, ages 15 & 18) - that's it for "family". The grandmother that I connected with died in 1997. And, luckily, the step-father who caused so many problems died in 2001. (I win.)

My "family" and I seem to be polar opposites, they are sun tanning while I am sunblock; they are meat and potatoes; I am semi-vegetarian. They are conservative; I am Obama! They are Christian; I am not (not exactly, anyway).

It's very tough to have no one close to you that you connect with; to feel like you have some place to turn to when you are feeling down or frustrated or just want to talk about more than the weather.

I (reluctantly) shared with my Mom last night about a semi-formal event that I want to attend, but I didn't want to go alone - or in other words, I don't have a man to attend with me. Her top of the line advice? "Hire an escort for the evening." REALLY? That's your "motherly" advice to a perpetually single 44-year old daughter??? No wonder I'm 'still single'.

Oh, I can give more lovely examples of her advice on men. She doesn't sound like a hick, but you have to imagine the voice of "Jerry Springer" guest when you hear this one. She actually said to me, not that long ago either, "I wish you'd find you a good man - one that wouldn't BEAT YOU." W-H-A-T??? Beat me? What fricking planet are you on, lady?

So, anyway, I am just frustrated and feeling isolated again. Thought I'd write my thoughts to see if that helped any. TaTa.

5/20/097:17 AM

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spagirlMember

Hummingbird, what kind of relationship did you have with your mom?

I've always said that if I could divorce my mom, I would. But when she is your only "family" connection, you hang in there, despite not enjoying the ride most of the time.

I started thinking about my Grandmother. She LOVED me. Real love. The kind that builds your confidence. Mom's love seems like a selfish love. Definitely one that seeks to destroy any confidence I have built up on my own.

I have been self-employed for nearly 20-years (an AMAZING achievement), and while she is proud of me, she still doesn't believe I'm capable of running a business. Like last night, she asked me if I was "making enough money to pay the rent". I just had to laugh. Of course I am, Mother. But, it's just one more nick. She's like a snake who can't help but strike at you and to spit venom! Was she truly concerned for my well being, or was she saying "you are a loser"? Oh, and the conversation we were having wasn't even about work, so it wasn't like I was complaining and then she attacked - she just drops these things in from time to time. This is why I stay frustrated.

I live my life feeling quite good about myself. I've had some amazing experiences and typically most days are good days. Then she enters the scene, and as was put so eloquently, knocks me off of my stability. Then I reel from it for days until I get back to center for a while.

5/20/099:56 AM

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roger2lMember

Maybe this will help. The other day I actually won an argument with my wife. It was not that intense but when I realized it, it seemed to evaporate, as I did not even know what I had won. The whole discussion centered around my answer to her inquiry which are often attached to suggestions it seems.(i.e. I place in pre-emptive context) The point is that I was the one that got caught up in a controversy by my own sloppiness. BTW: This is my first post on this board, and unusually direct for me. I hope that it had enough substance to have context that is useful, I usually get lost in theory or tangents or self. Looking back at my own here I inserted the (i.e.) and can now see that it may help to point out, it is in our presumptions that we often get tweaked. Sometimes a question is just a question and sometimes a comment is a button that need not be answered.

5/21/098:49 AM

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holzMember

Hi All,

quote:
For the first time i got to know my mom as a person and what it was like to be a daughter.

Hi HB, It's so sad when the only time that we (some of us) can finally connect with a mother is when she is dieing. My mother and I spent very little time as mother/daughter while she was here. She had stage 4 ovarian cancer when she found out that she was sick so her time was quite limited once she knew. The last few months of her life I cared for her on my own in her home (she wanted to die in her own bed). I cherish those few months because (though I felt like much of the need to bond was her realizing that she needed to make peace before she left the earth) I too got to know my mom as a person, as opposed to the monster I had experienced for the 27 years before that. I've never forgiven her for the abuse (physical, emotional and mental) from my childhood and young adulthood, and now I struggle with it, but I'm really happy that I had a few short months of selflessness (is that a word) with her.

HI ROGER! Welcome!

Be cool!

Holly

5/21/0911:23 AM

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roger2lMember

Thanks for the welcome. I enjoyed your question: ** This could be a heated debate** and then re: SpaGirl'sIrritations I thought it would be rational to follow up and get my feet wet. I found this website by googling "reptilian brain" in regard to other work. I won't delve deeper but in regards to the cylce of rationalizing over opinions and exchanges, a friend of mine asked if I had taken a course in logic because I had accused him of resorting to ad hominem. He thought that just because it was a tool in argument that it was part of logic. It is actually a part of logic because they teach about fallacies. Here is an entertaining perspective on The Golden Rule and logic and being in another's place.

I will close with one more reference (or 2). Carl Jung pointed to four functions of ego; sensing, thinking, feeling and intuition. Oh and the idea I came in on, or at least was going to say YES, HollyBabyO, selflessness is a word and a synonym for altruism. By intuition I conclude that they are almost oxymorons as so few realize their power Please note my likely misuse of oxymoron, but it is in application that it works. I would like to know if there is a word for that they are, but it seems that if one understands that they work, how can one truly be either? (selfless or altruistic)

5/22/0912:31 AM

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holzMember

Hi Roger!

The Reptilian Brain .. interesting and thought provoking thing to be reading about. What sort of work are you doing in regards to it?

Thanks for clarifying the 'selflessness' issue

TTYL

Holly

5/22/092:21 PM

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roger2lMember

FYI: you seem to know your way around this site, but just in case: The Reptile Brain is a section in MyShrink. I was doing some writing and exploring venues and found TheExaminer. Within that writers select their specialty. I was exploring mine. I found one guy whose subject area was exopolitics. Too far out for me. But then I followed up on some free associative writing in this regard and...bingo. Basically I landed on this site that way, and may have found my niche. More later.

5/22/098:13 PM

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roger2lMember

My niche being not here but not necessarily a limited field of writing. I used the term "oxymoron" for the words "selflessness" and "altruism", but that is inaccurate. Oxymoron is a phrase while the words themselves provide contraditions, when one realized our cause and effect dimensions and our limitlessness. Yet my theory is that we interact only on the 4 dimensions of space-time and Jung's ego, with a lot of Maslow thrown in. The word "dynamic" stands in for change. TTYL

P.S. I heard architect, R. Buckminster Fuller speak on the first Earth Day and he was fascinated with the tetrahedron. I guess this could be associated with the influences one does not realize in ones life.

5/23/099:02 AM

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holzMember

Hi Roger.

I actually didn't know that there was anything on MyShrink regarding the Reptile Brain. Most of what I've read were in other venues on the net.

quote:
exopolitics. Too far out for me.

Funny .. was that meant to be funny? UFO studies ... Far out ??? Hmmm, maybe I'm reaching there LMAO!!

I haven't read anything about tetrahedron's (is it a multi-layerd 3D triangle? Never mind, I'll look it up and read a little about it), I'm curious as to what it would have had to do with Earth day, and why you think it could be associated with the influences in ones life.

Interesting chatting with you!

Holly

5/23/099:48 PM

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butterflywarriorMember

I didn't read the whole post or everyone's response because I am limited in what I can handle at this time.

However my thoughts right now is that
- you keep trying because of attatchment in early childhood... we expect to have this... we know we are supposed to have some normal connection between us and our caregivers (you and mom) and when we get it but it's not completely nurturing yet somewhat, then it's really hard and confusing because you keep searching to keep it going...

- also you keep thinking.. if only we can work this out.. maybe it will be better now if I do this or that....

- of course the issue is you can change yourself but you can't change her and sometimes people, even mom's are just toxic. If they are't going to make changes and you feel like crap coming away form them, you don't need that poison in your life.

- you have to make your own attachments/connections for yourself and realuze your mom gives what she can in her own limited way but unfortunately not what you need.

thats all that has come to my head right now...

dont know if any of it ressonates with you...

Butterfly Warrior

5/24/091:56 AM

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roger2lMember

"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." Friedrich Nietzsche

A friend of mine disagrees with this, but I will not drag the negative psychology into this chat. It certainly depends on the changes we undergo, in going through.

Butterfly Warrior! You make other good points too.

A reference to a quotable quote dragged in R. Buckminster Fuller. "Nothing in a caterpillar tells us it is going to be a butterfly." But he was a visionary architect not a geneticist.

5/25/099:27 AM

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holzMember

Good response BW!

5/25/099:42 AM

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