Hi Forlorn
First of all, I totally understand you feeling like she is going to freak and push you away if you tell her how you are really feeling. I've been there many times. But that’s what’s so unique about the therapeutic relationship- therapists are empathetic and understanding of even your deepest darkest secrets. There have been times where right before I admit something to my T I'm thinking to myself, “This is it. This is the secret that he’s going to freak out about. This is the secret that’s going to send him running.” But that never happens! He’s always understanding.

I think that even if you don’t feel ready at your next session to tell your T about your feelings, everything will be able to unfold eventually. Who knows, in a few weeks you could just be talking and all of a sudden you just say it like it’s no big deal. I guess what I’m saying is that you don’t have to rush your relationship- if you really don’t feel ready to tell her then don’t be too hard on yourself about it.

Also, I don’t know if you’ve thought about this, but it sounds like your thinking of telling your T how you feel as “all or nothing.” Maybe you can just try saying one thing next session like, “I always feel so safe with you,” or “You’re so understanding, I really admire that.” And then that’s it for that session. Then next time say a little more, and then a little more, then a little more, till it feels comfortable to tell her everything about how you feel. I don’t know, just an idea.

Maclove

I have to run right now, but I wanted to say that I read your post and I will reply as soon as I can. I understand your concerns.

Forlorn,

I know how you are feeling! I went through this with my P where I kept telling myself I would open up and I would talk and let him know everything about how I feel about him and how much I love him and how much I want to have him as my dad even though I know it cant happen and tell him that I want a hug. Honestly, I still struggle with it some because I have been able to open up by writing but not by just going in there and saying what I need to say. But my P has agreed that writing it out and giving it to him was a big first step and that the more I do that the closer I will get to talking.

I was so scared of what would happen when I started talking through the transference and if he would start pulling away from me, would there be less physical contact (he never has hugged me but he did used to shake my hand from time to time) and also worried about if I got better what would that mean to our relationship.

On the good side once I started opening up over the last couple of appointments he has not shown the tough love side as much as he used to. Because I was not being open and honest I was getting yelled at when I called him for what he thought was not real reasons because I could be honest. But now he is more understanding that this is something that is difficult for me to deal with and that I need his kindness and understanding. And once I was being honest he willingly gave it to me, stopped threatening to see me and has been more available to me when I need him even if its just through email or text.

And thats all just through writing stuff. I can only imagine what it will be like when I really start talking, but I also still cant see myself being there for awhile!

And I still have not gotten the hug I told him I really wanted but we have discussed it several times and talked about why he hasnt hugged me yet and that there is a possibility of it happening sometime but that its not something he thinks about or decides ahead of time, he only does it when he feels its the right thing to do in that moment. And this hug is something that I have thought about and dreamed about for years and thought that if I asked and he said no it would kill me. But the ability to talk about why I need it has been awesome!

So even if you have to write it all down and just go in there and hand it to her I would do it that way. Dont force yourself to talk at first if you cant. I did it in writing and then just listened to him talk the rest of the time while I dissociated. Thats how the first couple times the talk went and then it has gotten where I have been able to talk a little more each time.

Just dont be hard on yourself if you cant talk the first cause they really do understand how hard it is to open up about this stuff and they just want us to at least show that we are trying to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by MacLove:
There have been times where right before I admit something to my T I'm thinking to myself, “This is it. This is the secret that he’s going to freak out about. This is the secret that’s going to send him running.” But that never happens! He’s always understanding.

That's totally where I am now Maclove. I think, she's been holding back all this time and this will just make her tip over. She IS human after all. And it takes extraordinary care for a person to not react strongly, right? I'm trying to think back to other things I've told her that she hasn't freaked. But then again, I don't think I've gotten the response I wanted. (but I don't know what response I want. I just think I'll know how I want to feel afterward and hope she says or does something to help me feel that way.)

quote:

Also, I don’t know if you’ve thought about this, but it sounds like your thinking of telling your T how you feel as “all or nothing.” Maybe you can just try saying one thing next session

I was thinking about that. I guess it feels all or nothing because lately I've been struggling with such guilt for not telling her. Not in the ^She's going to mad at me for not saying^ way, but guilty more in the ^What if something happens and I never get the chance to tell her and I'm left with these unresolved feelings^. So I really feel like I need to say it all or nothing, soon because I always fear the worst case scenario in the people I love being taken away from me. I'm weighing which is worse, embarrassing myself temporarily by revealing, or having no opportunity to say it and living in regret for years.

So you see, I get myself into these pretty intense frames of mind. *sigh*

Thank you for your words of encouragement. I still am wavering and with 8 hours to go til I see her, I need it.

quote:

Originally posted by pippi:

So even if you have to write it all down and just go in there and hand it to her I would do it that way. Dont force yourself to talk at first if you cant.

Just dont be hard on yourself if you cant talk the first cause they really do understand how hard it is to open up about this stuff and they just want us to at least show that we are trying to do it.

I've been thinking of how to write it out. A letter, a poem, a song, draw it in a picture (she's an Art T).

I guess I'm trying to hard to think of ways to be creative in telling. I just remembered I once "wrote" something to her about relationship similarities in my homemade version of hieroglyphs. It helped break up the tension of what was "written" there since the story was told in a series of cute pictures. And she enjoyed it.

Now I'm thinking maybe I should just print out my original post and give it to her. Then at least she'll get all my weirdness and struggling with it as well?

I hope you're right and she's does understand how hard this has been to express. I do want to try. I feel bad for being so stubbornly against talking about it in the past. I hope she forgives me.

Thank you pippi. I hope you get your hug soon!

She will forgive you....they honestly just want you to try and the thing is that you will never know until you can step into the fear even if its just dipping one toe into the first time. I have written it in poems, letters, journaling....the best one that worked last time is that I went to a place that was quiet (which is hard to fine when you have three kids 5 and under) and just wrote. I told myself that I did not have to give it to my P if I didnt want to because often when I am writing something to him that affects what I write. So I just wrote my feelings out as fast as I could just to get them out of my head. I then reread it several different times before my next appointment and every time it brought up the feelings I would have during sessions that I was so scared to express so I knew it was the right thing to give to him. It was really hard not to rewrite things and change words or make it where I expressed what I was feeling without actually having the feelings in the writing. I also would change things because I didnt want to feel so vulnerable with him and this letter made me completely vulnerable. I then sealed this letter in an envelope so that I could not rewrite it or change it any way and put it in the car that I was taking to the appointment. I didnt not get it back out until I got to the appointment.

I had planned on going in there and reading it and I held it in my hand before I went back there so he would see it so I couldnt just keep it in my pocket it and be to scared to mention it. And then when he asked me to read it I made a deal with him that if he read the first one that I would read the second one and that he had to be the one to read first. I really thought I could do that.

But when it came time for me to read I was scared and just couldnt go through with it. He saw how scared I was and tried a few things to get me to calm down and then when it just wasnt working he gently took it out of my hands and said that he understood this was hard so he would read it and if there were any parts that he felt like I needed to read then he would have me read those parts. He never did that but did read certain parts out loud and that was hard enough.

But by the end of the session I felt this amazing feeling that I could trust him with anything and that he wasnt going to leave. I had always been scared that I was going to push him to far and he would stop seeing me or I just hadnt told him anything bad enough because I had been hiding all the strong emotions and feelings that I had problems dealing with and thought he couldnt handle them either and would bale on me like other people had done. But I learned through doing this that he can handle those feelings better that I can. And he isnt just sitting there waiting to hear something bad so he can leave me. After hearing all of it we seemed closer and he even said he learned several dynamics about me that he hadnt known that was affecting our relationship and the way he deals with me and he probably wouldnt have been so hard on me if I would have opened up so he could learn these things sooner.

If you can just write it down in anyway at all then give it to her it will be the best thing you could do. Sometimes it has been easier to write it down in poems and things like that. I gave him a notebook with about 50 poems I wrote about him about two years ago. I gave it to him a week before our session so he would have time to read it and some were very sexual and some were just about loving him so much and the things I love about him. And none of those worked as well as just writing out my feelings while I was present in those feelings when no one was around. I felt like I needed to see him and talk to him and had to have some kind of contact with him and that is when I wrote out what I was feeling and that is what worked the best and made him understand everything so much better.

And trust me I was so honest that I expected him to leave. I told him that I think about giving him a blowjob during session just to be able to see his smile while I am doing it....and he didnt stop seeing me over that or anything else I told him....but in 2003 he did stop seeing me when I wasnt being open and honest and wasnt willing to talk about the feelings. At that time I was acting them out instead of talking. And the one thing that my P told me that helped me understand he was serious about talking about it and being there for me was when he told me

"You can tell me anything you are thinking or feeling cause there is nothing that you "shouldnt" be thinking or thats bad to be thinking. There is only things that you shouldnt act on. If you feel like hitting me in the head with a hammer then tell me and we will talk about why, but if you do it then I call the police. If you are thinking about giving me a blow job then tell me and we can talk about why, dont try to act out on it and make it happen where I would have to stop seeing you."

It was one of the most uncomfortable conversations I have had with him while it was going on but at the same time really made me understand that I can say anything I think or feel and dont need to be scared. Not that the fear is gone but I do feel better about talking now.

One other thing is I get the all or nothing feeling which is what pushed me to lay it all out at once in writing and then we can work through it for however long it takes. But I was constantly worried about "what if he gets in a car wreck and die" and then I have these feelings I never told him when I had the chance and now I have to work through it all by myself. Because of those feelings there was no taking it a little at a time. I had to get it all out in the open just to make sure he knew everything and now it will take a long time to work through those feelings and we can take it little steps at a time as we need to but at least he knows everything. And I am the worst at expecting bad things to happen so if there is a car wreck in the town he lives in I have to check and make sure it wasnt him or if my old high school P doesnt write me on time and hasnt told me he was going to be late writing me then I start searching the obituaries in that town to make sure nothing happened to him. So hopefully you arent as bad off as I am in that sense but I do get where you are coming from and know the fear of "what if something happines before I get a chance to tell him everything?"

Forlorn I want to wish you luck with telling your T about your feelings for her. I’ve never been in a situation with a T where I’ve felt particularly strong positive feelings for them (negative yes positive no) but I can imagine how excruciating it must be to feel that way and have to find the courage to tell them. So much easier to tell bad feelings I think. So all the best with it, I hope you do manage to get it all out in one go

And Pippi, amazing posts!. Last time you posted it sounded like things were going badly wrong with P, it’s so good to read that you’re not only back on track but that he’s now understanding a lot more about you and stopped with this ‘tough love’ stuff. I’m glad for you.

LL

LL- Thanks... things are going much better. Really starting to trust him and open up and learning the more that I open up the more he learns about me and the more he knows how I needed to be treated by him and what I need from him. I guess I cant expect him to know these things with out me being wiling to tell him.

The other thing that has helped is I have been watching the OCD project on tv because I have OCD and hope to one day get over it. And after seeing how the man on the show does tough love with some of the people and how he pushes them and sometimes yells at them and then you hear him explain it to the camera and why he yelled and did what he did and how he still cares and he isnt mad at them but he has to push them, I really started to understand where my P was coming from and that he does need to sometimes do tough love to push me to a new place that I need to be at but that he will understand better when those times are and when the times are that I need more gentleness and compassion from him if I open up and let him see what is going through my mind and how I am feeling.

One of the things he said he learned is I told him the more he yells at me, or threatens to stop seeing me the more I feel like I need to cling to him even tighter and have constant contact with him. And the more he yells at me in session the more I start thinking about sex right then because all guys like sex and he would be smiling instead of mad if I gave him a blow job and that also when it feels like he is with holding any physical contact whether it be a hug or handshake or even just a pat on the back that the harder it is to talk about the feelings because I feel like I am being punished for the feelings. I feel like he says they are not bad and we can work through them but then he is punishing me by with holding the things I want most and some of the things I used to get like handshakes, which is not a hug but is better than nothing. And then when I feel like I am getting punished it starts to feel like he is pulling back from me so then I start to fight his pulling back by clinging to him which then starts the cycle where I cling and call and text and he gets mad and threatens to stop seeing me which makes me cling even more and we just go in this big spiral of this. And he had no idea this is what was causing all of this because I tried to act tough and like I didnt need him instead of just being honest and let him know what was going on. It was an amazing feeling for him to read everything I wrote and then say that he actually learned some new dynamics about me that will help our relationship and for him to tell me what a great job I did that session and I have not heard him threaten to stop seeing me in almost a whole month, which before it was an almost daily thing. And now that Im not hearing that from him I am starting to loosen my grip on him a little bit and even though I think about him and want to see him I dont have to call him or text him daily and know exactly what he is doing at all times which was what I was doing in the first place to make him mad. And through this getting better between us there is less tension and the erotic transference feelings are not as strong. They are still there and are still strong but not what they used to be.

Pippi- I just wanted to respond really quickly to what you said about the OCD project. I have been watching that show religiously, and even though I don't have OCD, I do have generalized anxiety disorder so I relate very strongly to the anxiety aspects of OCD. I love hearing that watching the show has helped you understand your P, I think that's great. I agree, I like the way how the Dr. uses tough love. It's not overdone or anything and it seems to help (especially with Kristin). I've brought up The OCD Project to my T, but he doesn’t watch it.

MacLove- I didnt know if anyone else on here would know what I was talking about. And honestly, when I first started watching it I thought the guy was such a jerk and he was a lot like my P and he made her cry just like mine makes me cry sometimes, although I wont do it in front of him. But after watching the same episode three times where she was suppose to go back in the shower for five minutes and the way he yelled at her and told her either do it leave was really just like my P. And I was mad until they had the side part where he explained that he wasnt mad at her and he had compassion and understanding but that if he didnt push her she would be stuck in the OCD and it just all clicked after hearing that for the third time. Those words really stood out for me and it just clicked and I was like "wow this is what my P is doing to me. He does care and sometimes seems like a complete jerk but where would I be right now if I hadnt gone through that."

I love that show and my husband keeps telling me that he is going to call the show and have me on there cause then they wouldnt need all those people. All they would need is me and I would cover pretty much every OCD thing they showed on there this time....he thinks he is real funny!

So I "told" her. As she read it, I uncomfortably shuffled next to her. And when she was done she just said "was that what you've been wanting to telling me?" I said, don't just say "it happens, I hate that." and she said she would not say that because it's not always something that happens to everyone.

But she did not freak and we did NOT talk about it much after that. I steered the conversation to other things for the rest of the session.

But stupid me, I totally got distracted and forgot to ask for the hug. And when I was leaving I sort got this sense that she was pausing a bit (waiting for it maybe?) but my hands were full for one, and I was already out the door before I turned I saw her just sort of standing there. As I walked away I thought "dang, she even looked very hug-able." and I missed it. I'm always carrying too much stuff when I leave so next time I think I'll take a very small purse and ask for the hug in the very beginning.

But when I think about it too much I think about all the different hug scenarios. Sitting, standing, at the beginning, the end, long hug, quick squeeze. Not to mention the What ifs. What if I smell GAH! What if she's a bad hugger, or I go left but she goes left too and it's awkward, what if I squeeze too hard and break her??? My over-analyzing MIND!!!

Pippi-

That tough love would scare me sometimes I think. Though I did recently tell her to be more aggressive with me as I didn't want to feel like I could "get away" with anything. I don't know the show you mentioned but it sounds like you were really able to connect with your T on a new level because of it. KUDOS!!! My T loves when I find outside resources that help with the whole therapy process. After all, it's not just about the 2 of us working it out, there's all aspects of life to consider, and those other aspects can enhance (or not) the therapy process. You've already discovered this, so you're well ahead of me good for you!

LL-

I agree it is easier to tell bad feelings. I think anger is much less embarrassing for me. Although, when I think about the things I have expressed anger about, I probably should be a bit more embarrassed than I am LOL!